Hey everyone!
Yesterday my muchneeded vacation really began, and for around 8 more days, i am on the Pacific Sun. We are going to Vanuatu, Noumea, thAt sort of stuff. I'm in the netcafe. Anyway, i thought i'd write a bit of a log.
Day 1
Well, todays teh day, we head out. we went to the pizzaplace. Me and my best mate Alex went to the arcade where a selection of new & old (A slightly batterd NeoGeo!) awaited us. They stuffed up our dinner arrangements, but, these things happen.
Well, i'm about to go get some sleep, so seeya.
Day 2
A breakfast of Pancakes and Maple syrup. Tasted pretty nice, especially with Pineapple on it. We headed to the Pools, where they have a wicked slide. Well , gotta go eat.
Cheers.
Cool. You should post pics and stuff...
But I have one question: How muchneeed a vacation could a 13 year old actually need?
Esper: when you were a 13 year old, didn't you yourself think that school was so much work and you relished your vacations just about as much - or even more - as you relish your own nowadays? :) We have to put things in perspective.
Esper was not in a forum for people over 16 when he was 13...
I didn't say I thought the thread was interesting, did I?
You can't, because it isn't... ;D
Like dessert to try, the "My first PSP image", the Black and red 3-d union jack, cool futurama fonts...
Is there an "ignore user" button I can use?
Harsh. Leave the kid alone (wait, what am I saying...)
And no, I wasn't in a forum for people over 13 when I was 16. dan quayle hadn't invented the internet yet....
Quote from: esper on Fri 30/09/2005 09:35:45
And no, I wasn't in a forum for people over 13 when I was 16, dan quayle hadn't invented the internet yet....
Lol! You were not in a forum for people over 16 when you were 13, not the oposite! ;D
Shut up!!! (scuttles away all embarrassed)....
:o
Hm, people, if you don't like Fluke's thread, you're not making it better by hi-jacking it.
I don't know, he's trying to make something interesting. He's trying to make games, companies, logos, pictures, cruise logs.
If you check the forums, all of these do exist! But for some strange reason he can't make any of it interesting. And I don't know if it's the age that's wrong. We do have other 13 year olds here, I believe, who don't cause all this trouble...
Anyway, Fluke when you post try to think really hard what you're doing. When you post a picture don't post it for no apparent reason. When you create a company logo, and have people making for you (even if it is voluntarily) try to think what company in the first place, you're 13. There's no doubt that when you grow up you'll have so many knowledge over so many things, but still try to think before you act. After all the topics you've posted you should've gotten the picture.
And I don't know about the 16 years old limit, but sometimes I wish there was a 27- years old limit, so I couldn't be here. I feel a lot of times, so old, so ignorant, so stupid...
But the "over 16" rule does exist... Why setting a rule if we're not going to accomplish, or set punishments for those who does not accomplish it?
Ok, I know that the part of the "punishement" sounds horrible, but I've studied introduction to law, and civil law, and the parts of a law are clear: Where does it apply (application zone), to who, and the punishement if the law is not accomplished.
Imagine a law "thou shall not drive faster that 120 kms. per hour in fast lanes" And you don't include a "if you do, you'll have to pay 500 â,¬ if caught, plus retirement of license and jail penalties if it results in accident" Do you think people would drive slower than 120 kms. per hour if law does not specific punishements? Surelly not.
Do you imagine what should cops do when catching people driving fast? "Sorry man, but you're driving to fast... eeeer... please... reconsider..."Ã, :P
This guy is laughing at the "you must be over 16" rule each time he posts, not because their silly posts, but of the lack of effort. He usually posts something like "My first PSP image: (in generalÃ, :P) crit it!" or "I went to a pizzaplace, I ate a pinneaple at breakfast and I went to pool... discuss about it!" That is miles away of the good starting topics examples we've seen in M0ds' or Andail's posts. Fluke's posts are boring, not helpfull, interesting or funny.
So... what should we do? As said... stablish a punishement for posters who does not follow the rules (I.E. posting nudity without warning, spoilers without [ h i d e ], or starting threads being younger than 16...) like, I don't know, being 5 days without being able to start a topic or something...
OR
Remove the "you can't be under 16 to post". If we set a rule and we're going to do nothing when we're being witness of a constant breaking of that law, that law becomes totally stupid. Let's remove the minimun age. No one can post worse than Fluke, no matter if he is 5 or 4.
If you see, I've posted the two possibilities I see as the only possible things to do.
Going on with this nowadays "We're seeing a breaking of a law, but who cares?" attitude is the worst and some kind of "hypocrital" attitude (I can't find the propper, and non-offensive word, but if someone does, please put it here).
So... Which is my opinion? Which of those two staled possibilities should I choose? Helm asked me in Mittens: "Do you want Fluke to be banned?" My reply could have surprised the mitteners.
"I don't hate Fluke, I want him to go on here and I like that AGS is a forum which hasn't banned anyone"
Minimi was a member which I used as a example of a "I WANT ATTENTION!" attitude, at the beginning, and finally resulted as a good member after learning some art and relaxing a bit.
I think, thought, that Fluke was going to be the same, but I think nowadays that he will be regullarilly posting this silly threads for seeking our attention for a long time. My opinion is that his right of starting threads in general should be removed for under 16. Not the right to reply, or being a member, so they could learn and see how the forum works.
So... What happends if we find a young guy who is really interesting? It should be a shame to lose his topics. No problems. Start threads through moderators. PM them and they will post in the name of the young member.
I might be wrong, but that's what I think, sincerelly.
Farl's post kicked all manner of bitticks. I totally agree. The one problem is that it would be hard for the moderators to keep up (has it been five days yet? You still can't post, suckah!) or, if they decided to program it in PHP or something, it would take a whole lot of time and trouble for folks who aren't even getting paid to do it.
I think, personally, these "mini-flame sessions" are the best way to deal with it. If someone hears enough times that they are posting stupid stuff, it might eventually get their attention. It hasn't with Fluke yet, but.... ohh, well.
I mean, I've posted some asininity in my day. I have two threads that never got replied to and one just the other day that got locked... Ummm, it was actually today, come to think of it :( .... I once posted a competition in the competition section before reading the rules that said not to do it. I suck just as much as the next guy... Everyone is capable of doing it. Just not quite so much as certain people.
I havent studied law, or anything but as an idea punishment is not the greatest to start with.
I don't know what's the solution here...
But there are laws which go without punishment. And I used to drive more than 120 Khm/h whenever I felt that I could do it (this has to do with the car I'm driving and the road). It had als oto do if there were any cameras around.
Now, I've grown up. I can understand the dangers of doing 150 on a Motorway. And I don't do it. There's no reason for me to have a punishment for speeding. I see the reason behind the law.
Repeated crimes should be punished and I think that here with Fluke we have a case of repeated "crime" multiple times. I don't think he's laughing everytime he post, I think he's spoilt and he's looking for attention be trying to mimicke (sp?) everything he sees here. This is wrong but I think that the best thing why can do is just to ignore all his silly threads, even delete them (?) I do remember a guy named Maryland who seemed to stop posting (is he banned?)
And anyway I don't see why fluke can't reenter the forums with a different name and a different age?
I don't know if the solution is to stop people from making threads, or is it better to teach them.
The internet is a great way to be tottally irrisponsible...And a bad speller! ;D
Hm, this may sound harsh to a friend, but please just leave this to the moderators.
Not only have I been moderator here long enough to have worked out a pretty well-founded agenda, I also work with kids on professional basis.
The biggest problem with trying to enforce these age-rules, is that we have little means to establish their real age. This means that if we have a zero-tolerant age policy, people will just not tell us their real age anymore.
This very liberal view helps establishing closer and more honest relationships.
The supporting (as opposed to banning) kind of moderating helps improving the poster's behaviour, instead of creating resentful trolls who will keep spamming the community for ages.
When the kids finally reach a mature age, they can look back at how they behaved and learn from that, and help others, etc.
As for now, I think the situation is very good compared to most other forums.
PS:
I'm very near closing this thread, since the rules-debate have little to do in gen-gen (there is a moderator-forum already), and the initial post hasn't got any attention. I'll leave it for now, though.
Hey, listen Fluke... Nik was right. It is cool that you are being an active member of the society, and the last thing I'm sure any of us want to do is drive you away. But seriously, now... Check out what people are saying and realize that you need to be a part of the community, not try to say "hey check me out! No, seriously, check me out!!!" I had a friend (vomits upon using word friend in the same sentence as the name:) Matt... He was the clown of all clowns. Everyone hated him. He was a worthless member of society. He refused to get and keep a job (he had been through thirteen in six months once...) and just leeched off everyone around him. One day, he got a true and mighty asskicking, when we were all at a pool hall and he decided to just randomly walk up and grab a cute girl's boob. He was doing it to show off, but we mopped the place with him. Later, I told him the secret to life, the universe, and everything: 42!!!! (no, just kidding) Ever since I explained to him exactly why people pissed on him everywhere he went, and that he needed to learn how to share the world with other people and be a part, not just make believe he was the only person around that was worth anything, he instantly cleared up his act.
My point is this: Be a part. Most of what you do is "Hey, look what I did" or "Hey, look what I'm doing!" If you try to help other people, post interesting links people can use and will enjoy, etc... maybe when you come up with a cruise log more people will say "Hey, cool! Fluke went on vacation! Let's see what he has to say!!!"
And PS: Don't take my above suggestions and do them flamboyantly and constantly just to "get your name out there." People will realize what you're doing and eventually get aggravated. Just be yourself, with a little more effort placed on other people and not just you. Then, you may very well rule several galaxies with your resulting coolness.
That doesn't sound Harsh at all, because the spirit of my post was not:
"Silly moderators! I ares more smart than you!!! Follow my brilliant idea!!!111one!!11" Ã, :D
It was just my opinion, and I know some people was going to post for and against it, giving better sollution (and practical, mine was difficult to be taken to reality). That's why I posted it. I hope we find something that really works.
QuoteThe biggest problem with trying to enforce these age-rules, is that we have little means to establish their real age. This means that if we have a zero-tolerant age policy, people will just not tell us their real age anymore.
I knew that. That shows the weakest point of my thread. But I see a problem and I've started a brainstorm. Ã, ;) Go on with it.
But I wanna ask... If we are not going to enforce the age-rules... why having them? Ã, ??? Let's remove them completelly and proclaim that we are a totally auto-ruled forum.
And yeah... The situation is better than in 99% of the other forums, thank God! :)
EDIT: Niko... The punishement of driving faster is specified very clearly in each law code in every country, with the tables of punishements deppending on how faster than the limit you're driving and much more... ;)
Quote from: Farlander on Fri 30/09/2005 11:52:14
EDIT: Niko... The punishement of driving faster is specified very clearly in each law code in every country, with the tables of punishements deppending on how faster than the limit you're driving and much more...Ã, ;)
Of course. But if you check I bet you that 80% don't drive faster than the limit, not because they will be punished but because they know that the speed limit is there for a reason. So If we could all learn the reason behind the law (difficult but hey... I'm a dreamer)we wouldn't have to have punishment. Hm... too much Hollywood ;D
You are too pure thinking that 80% follow the limits because they're good people... ;)
Don't much know if this fits the somewhat hostile atmosphere of this thread, but I'd sure like to hear about the vacation when it's over... hearing one's impressions and such would be interesting. Some change to the oncoming cold winterseason and hard schoolwork that is ;)
Fluke, once you get back and if these ragamuffins wouldn't mind, you could at least tell us wherther the land/island whatever it was again is actually worth visiting or not... Dunno if you have a camera, but you know the drill.
But I must agree with the fact that an ongoing list of happenings will eventually lead to filling the forums frontpage with too many open threads and conversations... hmmm, and preferably think before posting if the thread would arouse conversation or just be there for nothing... usually people have ideas, they just need something to stimulate them. Let's assume the flag (someone mentioned a flag?) didn't because they did not know what it was for. that's why I couldn't give any C&C...
Farlander, I follow the limits because I can't keep the car in control :D no, actually it's easier to drive at 80km/h when other people are driving the same 80km/h too
Ok, two points: :)
If there is hostility here, for me, it's just against Fluke's "hey, I am still here!" attitude, not to Andail, Niko, Esper...
Point two: You can keep posting pages of examples of laws that need no punishements because you are good people and your soul instintivelly makes you follow the rule. But rules are not made just for good people. They're made for everybody. And everybody includes bad people too. So, to stablish punshiements is an essential part of making laws.
I think it could've been a quite interesting topic. Unfortunately, Fluke failed to make it a topic worth reading. If it were more story-like, had interesting unusual happenings or just a general "It's not nearly as cool as I thought it'd be" or "It was twice as much fun as I thought someone my age could have on a cruise" then it'd be pretty damned interesting. As it was, there was minimal information. Any chance the thread had of being good was pretty much killed by the fact that FB can only update so often and you pirahnas have already devoured all the meat. Just my take.
Allow me to quote myself to express how deeply agree with you.
Quote(Fluke's posts are not annoying because) they are silly, but because of the lack of effort...
That is miles away of the good starting topics examples we've seen in M0ds' or Andail's posts. Fluke's posts are boring, not helpfull, interesting or funny.
Farl, I don't think many people actually know the punishment for speeding. No one actually looks up the tables of punishments of how much you pay for how fast you are driving. Most people see the sense in following the rules, because if they didn't, something bad would happen to them (not that they'd get punished, but that they'd get hurt). Over here, it seems the punishment is to be ostracised from the community, and/or made a mockery of. I think that is enough. The 16+ isn't really a rule: it's a warning. If you act like a kid, people here won't accept you.
Fluke...take this as an attempt at writing (a good tool for any game-maker). Even if you have the worst or most mundane vacation ever, make it interesting! Make up interesting analogies for what you saw, try spoting the humour in any situation, etc. Don't just say "Went to a pizza place. Played on arcade machines. Had breakfast of pan-cakes and maple syrup". And of course, pictures!
The good people, Babar... the good people...
Woooo! Lets turn this into a discussion of the morality of speeding! :P
Actually, Farl, even the good people break the law. They just do it when they understand that there is no danger. For example, when there is a long stretch of empty road, and someone is in a hurry (and of course, there is no one around to stop them), they might speed. The point is, they make an informed decision on how to act, not based on punishments, but on safety. Would you go full speed past a crossing even if you knew 100% that there was no policeman there to stop you? Rules aren't put in place to be mean. They are placed to protect those who they are imposed on.
The same way, people here break the rule about being older than 16. They understand, however, that they must act a certain way, and behave a certain way.
..............................
I added a ton of text, then realised, I have no idea what you're talking about :=. "The good people, the good people"?
You were trying to show that punishments need to be enforced to make "bad people" follow rules. I showed you that the punishment is already in place. You speed in the wrong place=You die. You post silly threads=People make fun of you. This style of punishment is more likely to work than getting someone sulky because they were banned from posting 5 days. It effective! I haven't seen Chis around in a while. Besides, I don't think Fluke is really a "bad" person ;D. Probably just doesn't understand a few things.
What I am saying is that rules must stablish a punishement, because, whereas good people will follow the rules just because they are good and sensible, the bad people will need another incentive to strictly follow the rules. :)
Many times, if you are stupid enough to break the laws, putting yourself and other people in danger, (driving 200 kms/h in a fast lane) you'll be stupid enough to give a f*ck about the punishement. But what about that people who is not completelly evil, but not completelly good as you and Nikolasideris? They might need that fear to the punishement.
And that fear might save lifes, for God's shake, what is this "no punishement" attitude? Is the new politically correct position? Because I need to know that things, I want to be popular! :D
Penalties have two tasks. To strike fear (dissuade) and a teaching task. If a rule does not have punishement it won't work, it won't accomplish its tasks, so, we should remove the "under 16" rule, as it is proven it is totallty useless.
But this has been totally unrelated with the matter, I am talking about general laws composing. About Fluke, I think that the "let's mock him till he realises he does not post in an interesting way" is quite mean. Notice that I don't reply to him firstly, I'd like anybody does, so that would dissade him of posting in such an unelaborated way, but someone finally does, and then I just can't avoid to try to educate him. :) (As many teachers, I finally get stuffed about the pupils and I become as cruel as the attitudes I was trying to avoid :-[)
I would put a "tutor" to him, a guy who he could post through, via PM, and he could explain him how to do the posts more interestings, or if something is going to be accepted or not. I would gladly do the job, but I don't consider me a good example... :-\
Quote from: Farlander on Fri 30/09/2005 20:04:26
I would gladly do the job, but I don't consider me a good example...Ã, :-\
I think nobody does anymore :D well, to return to offtopic, I find it rather intriguing that you reckon the world would be a better place if we all lived in fear... Kill all who say no to the king and no-one shall... might work too :) [place a matter of ethics here]
Your post has a lack of fidelity when quoting mine. I haven't said that "If we ALL llive in fear the world might be a better place..." I've said "if all THOSE WHO ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH to follow the rules without the fear to punishement live in fear, the world might be a better place... "
That lack of fidelity when quoting makes totally useless to try to reply to your post, because,subsequently, your reply is wrong. Sorry. Try to explain to me what you are talking about and I'll gently try to reply :)
Thanks.
no way :D dude, chill out! I was kidding for christs sake! now take a dep breath and read what you said earlier... You're cooking here. I rest my case, I don't want to get into this fight, and don't tell me it's not a fight because I can read!!!
btw, define bad person and good person, then tell someone he is bad and punish him, or he's good and don't ... Isn't that how the system works... anyway, I don't want to get in to this, and neither does FlukeBlake I bet...
Of course, the "bad and good" people is a simplification to save words... It is difficult to explain, but I was talking about making laws, and talking mainly of criminal issues. :)
Nothing to see with Flukeblake. I finished my stalement about that a lot of posts before. :)
And don't worry, no possible fight here, I really wanted to discuss with you, but I thought it was a mistake to base a discussion into an error when quoting. :)
Restrictions on Younger Members: Lets Make Their Avatar Automaticly a Yellow Star.
The liberal "post and let post" additude here is why people are atracted to this forum.
Including flukeblake, and including you, farl! Look how many times you already posted in this topic. What if some nazi moderator banned you because of posting so much? That wouldn't make you come back, now would it. (unless you just want to piss them off some more)
We can all complain in unity because of members who crave attention. Wich makes us all feel connected.
There is no law. The moderators aren't judges of policemen, so
they don't have to follow rules but can just go along on gut feelings.
Quote from: Andail on Fri 30/09/2005 11:38:03
Hm, this may sound harsh to a friend, but please just leave this to the moderators.
Not only have I been moderator here long enough to have worked out a pretty well-founded agenda, I also work with kids on professional basis.
...
Put more trust in moderators and less trust in PHP code.
ps. of course, I would have banned the little fuck a year ago. Good thing it's not up to me.
The biggest problem we have here is people making big deals out of these threads when they should really just ignore it if it isn't interesting to them. There's absolutely no need to made needless drama out of a harmless post, and yes we all know Flukeblake should really be out playing with children his own age but there's no need to constantly go through the same routine every time the kid makes a post.
If you don't care for the topic, don't reply! It's simple! And if you're reading this Flukeblake then feel free to make a fresh new topic on the subject of your holiday. I'd suggest waiting until it's over though, then you can provide us with a fuller account of your travels, and perhaps some pictures if you have any ;)