Disney blocks next Michael Moore film

[Nacho]

I am amazed by the different histories of the countries... It is just that I don't have time for all!  BTW, I don't undesrtand the piano stuff... who's the guy who plays such well that you're all considered good piano players? This is going out of topic... I think I am going to make a new thread.

[DGMacphee]

Off-topic, yes. But here are a few hints: Oscar... 1996... Best Actor...

I think you can connect the dots from that.

Meanwhile, back at the Moore ranch...

[Primus]

Phew, this thread is growing faster than a croud for an icecream in the hottest day of a year!Ã, 

Farlander, sorry if I mentioned my qualifications, it was not to impress - or diminish - anyone. I don't even wear any "course ring", and that is very usual (at least in Portugal and Spain) for licenciates, masters and doctorates. I'm not a radical either, but consider myself moderate, in the middle of a political scale political scale, oscillating ten degrees to the right and ten to the left. I am not sympathetic or affiliate in any political party: just affiliate to a syndicate, and that just to defend my labour rights.

Yes, terrorism is a cancer in any society. But now the new ones have taken it to a scale never seen before, without precedents... For me, any kind of fundamentalism / radicalism is the worst that can happen to someone. Unfortunately, no one is safe: even Portugal (being a little physical country only helps, besides we've not "natural" or "anti-natural" enemies) had to prepare itself, and is now one of the most secure countries all over Europe, mainly due to the international evenments here: Rock in Rio first, now the Euro 2004.

About that hypothesis, I still think if Al Gore had won the elections it could have been different, as the Democrat Party has been moderated and not interfering (so much as the Republican ones) on the worldwide politics and policies. And the US system is a Presidencialist system, so the President is the boss: virtual or real, that's another philosophy question.
Please don't forget that Bush won the elections by a very, very narrow difference, ca. 500 votes.
So he can lose them by a large difference: I hope so, I always prefer a Democratic President in the US, as it's (independently of we wanted it or not) the police of our world. I don't want to watch it phucked by bushes in fire.

It's natural the US have done that: due to economic reasons, they've also helped eg Hussein -Ã,  Reagan and Irangate, remember?). What's the popular symbol of the US? A capitalist - so a "$" too.
Portugal was also accused for having helped the Nazis during the II WW:Ã,  There's even a tale (call it a legend) about Salazar: it has been told when he sold food (eg canned tuna and sardines) to the allies, he warned the Axe of that shipment, and so the Axe came and destroyed the shipment; and the same would happen when he sold (if he did) to the axe. That joke ended by explaning his behaviour: he demanded those cans were filled with cabbage "trunks" or "stumps"...Ã,  The true is that, as a neutral country, of course Lisbon was one of the cities where there were most (axe and ally) spies and secret agents, so was terribly easy for a part knowing the movements of the other one, and so on. Also many foreign people forget we had legionaries (and even complete military companies, but not officially) fighting against the Axe, and not the opposite, although Salazar was very authoritary, a dictator, and with a very close systemÃ,  to Franco's one (or Mussolini's one, or even - what a shame, but I must admit it - Hitler's one): that is true, too. But Salazar was an Economist - a bloody good one, by the way -, before and after all, so he didn't let Portugal entering in the II WW mostly due to economic reasons - so it was a natural going he tried to get - economically - what he could from the war, too: he entered in politics as Ministry of the Economy, too.
There were also many anonymous Portuguese people who fought the Axe his own way. Eg a Portuguese Ambassator that saved thousands of jews during the II WW, and was dismissed and died in misery due to that (or Salazar was affraid our economy was going down due to many foreigners into our little country - he had an Economy degree and was also Professor at a Portuguese University, or he was against the jews - as Portuguse History showed how it has always been against Jews, mainly due to religious reasons; or then both): Aristides de Sousa Mendes do Amaral e Abranches.Ã,  In a few days in 1940, Aristides wrote and signed more than 30.000 provisional documents to Jews and other minorities proving they were Portuguese citizens. When the official papers ran out, they used all kind of papers - stamped with the official Portuguese one - on them, and a few words written by themselves. Salazar dismisses Aristides immediately, without any sallary (or chances to get a new job) and, in 1954, Aristides dies in the misery, in Lisbon. I have done - now once more - a minute of silence in honour of one of my idols. And I condemn Salazar once more for this phucking gesture, another black page in the Portuguese History of the 20th century till 1974: http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/A/Aristides-Sousa-Mendes.htm

Phew, i'm SO glad France is going far away from "Le Pen" specimens and so... You know, most European countries are going now to social democratic and socialist politics: not much to the left, not much to the right, just the right (read correct) dosis. A few years ago, I read in "The Reader's Digest" a hard criticism against the Swedish government: a what-the-hell-was guy
criticized Sweeden, as the author didn't like the way Sweden was leading its politics. So, here's another try of "washing" minds - or at least try to introduce a reasonable dosis of doubtness on reader's minds: that magazine is read by alotta people all around the world.

You are right: a calamity like that one of the Twin Towers couldn't be performed without many months - even years - of preparation. But I also know -a and agree too - the position of John le Carré (sorry, David Cornwell) in eg "Absolute Friends" and in recent interviews about the new terrorism era and the way secret services lay nowadays in technology, instead of "in the terrain". So a big part of the guilty from the new terrorism era is due to the US and his allies, and their ways of "acquiring" and "treating" those threats. I suppose they could have learnt with Israeli Secret Services, instead of just believing in the untrustful technology "god".

Sorry, but I can't agree with your example: a hornet depends from his sting to survive, to avoid die from starvation. If you want to compare our irracional way of living with the rational beings, a bee
has his sting just for defensive purposes, and I consider ourselves as bees, not hornets: Thy shall defend thyself (but never attack without any reason). If you want to compare us with ants, there are some ants surviving just as warriors, by destroying other ones and getting their labour: so there are the same ones in the human race. But in human race destroying eg for pleasure, or for no reasons, is UNIQUE in any living form. So we souldn't ever compare us with any other living form.

[Nacho]

Are you talking of Goeffrey Rush? I was amazed when I saw that their fingers were actually the ones who performanced in "Shrine"... I had to look at the credits because I thought it was some kind of hint, but no... "Song performanced by Geoffrey Rush"... My lack of culture was because I thought Geoffrey was Yankee... sorry! 

interesting reading Primus.. just a note: The dolphins also kill porpoises for fun (If my Online trnaslator goes ok, a porpoise is a little specie of sea mammal, correct?)

[Primus]

Hi again, and sorry to everyone for my too big and tedious writing...

Now you got me "holding my pants" (don't really know... Eng-PT Dictionary: porpoise: porco.do-mar; golfinho... even worse...)

American boycott to Hitler:
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/Black.html
(lead by American Jewish Congress president)

But it seems the US could have had business with Hitler (yeah, it seems the US god is really $):
http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/bush_nazi.html
http://www.rense.com/general43/byrd.htm
http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/
http://www.rememberjohn.com/Nazis.html
http://universitypress.info/AmericaBetrayed1.html
Prescott Bush?!... didn't really know... damn, now I must add a third pricky bush to my hate list...
http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/polipro/pp2001-04-04.htm
IBM
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/northamerican.php
IBM again
True or not, is there to be read. If anyone want more links, pls just ask.

And I can't believe in a country where "secret affairs and documents" (who are the ones who decided that, anyway?) must be hold in secrecy for at least 40 or 50 years: eg who has really killed John Fitzgerald Kennedy?! Mafia, CIA? All? Just Oswald? I have never believed in this last hypothesis.

PS: Farlander, didn't know you were from Spain. Well, eg Galicia didn't like either the way the government lead that oil subject, nor many people - that could also be important for the losing the elections: most Galician ones hate now golf, tooÃ,  ... ya sdhould know what I mean...

[Sutebi]

Peter Allen did play the piano pretty well, and he was insane. Uh, that's who you're talking about, right DG? Or someone else?

EDIT: Oh, you're talking about David Hefgott. Still, I think Peter Allen adds to your cause too.

[Nacho]

Primus: The results of the elections in Galicia have been overwhelmingly positive for the party of the government who managed the issue of the "Prestige"  :o

Actually, the great socialism fiefs in Spain are Andalucía, Catalonia and Extremadura.

Another theme... My analogy between waspees and people was just refered to the terrorists. 

And... Have I read something about JFK? I can't find the sentence, sorry... But I recently said a documental which proved that:

a) An average trained sniper can target in the same objectives that "the shooter" archieved in the same time that day.

b) All the timetables can be covered by a person walking (Some people claimed that it was impossible to reach the first storey of the book storing building from the fifth in the time Oswald did, claiming that actually Oswald was allways there and the shooter in the fifth storey was another man) Also, it is possible to reach the place where a cop was killed (Supossedly by Oswald after killing JFK) and to the cinema where he was found.

c) The strange movement that JFK's head made in the Zapruder's filming (The famous seen in Oliver Stone's film, during Kevin Costner's final statement) is phisically possible. Don't ask me which was that strange phisical effect, but the experts shooted a water melon and it crawled back in the direction of the shooter, not in the opposite, as the logical seems to say... Believe me, when I saw it in a video my face remained like this---> :o

So, the history of the lonely shooter can match with what happened. Does that necessarily mean it was Oswald? No... but it seems definitely more commendable than some of the conspiration theories.

[Primus]

  Oops... I didn't know that... Sorry about my ignorance about Galicia's results...

Ok, Farlander, I don't want to disagree with you, but I've seen alotta old and newer documentals and read alot about that, and all were definite about it was impossible a single bullet could have wounded JFK, JK and also a JFK staff man in the same vehicle, as it was told at first. But I msut confess didn't see Stone's film yet.
Also it was proved by shooting experts (eg military ones) the rifle Oswald used could shoot all those shots and, most important, hit anyone at that distance: even with luck it was impossible.
Most people heard shots coming from other places, eg opposite the building Oswald was: and weren't any echoes.
Several witnesses saw at least a person hiding a rifle right after
the shots.
And so on.

Ok I can be completely wrong. But why every proof about JFK's death (if there's any) will be shown just in a few years? If there isn't anything wrong, they should be heve been available yet.

You know that in our countries if any government tried to create a law like that one, it (both - government and law) would last just a few days.

[Nacho]

We're going out of topic, but, he...Ã, 

Actually I saw in that documental how a shooter got all that targets in 8 seconds, he did it in first term (The most important for the experiment issues, because Oswald, or the shooter, didn't had more chances) and he made it again 7 times of 10. The rest failed because a failure of the weapon (It's amazing how history can change by little facts... Do you imagine the shooter's weapon failing that day?Ã,  )

I think that the "It is impossible to shoot in time" it's some kind of urban legend. Now I can say that I've heard the "There is no time to shoot all that shoots" theory and I've seen that it can be done. If I have a chance I preffer to believe my eyes!

About the many wounds, it apparently can be done by bullets rebound. If you've seen Oliver Stone's film, the deffenders of the "third shooter" theory say that the trajectory of the bulllets expressed in the Warren's report is impossible (They make fun of it calling it calling "The theory of the magic bullet"). Apparently, and acording to the documental I am talking about, that "magic bullet" theory was a very early explanation and lately has been found a so much satisfactory explanation.

The path of the magic bullet, an early explanation that nobody accepts today. The deffensors of the conspiracy theory use this as an evidence that the Warren's report lied... But in that report this diagram does not longer exist.

About the witnesses... If you've seen CSI (22:15 CET Mondays, in T5) you'll yet know that they're the less belierable evidences in a investigationÃ,  .

[jetxl]

one. Osborne, altough a soldier, was a lousy shooter. I've been in the warehouse in Dallas and the place where Kennedy was shot. It's quite a distance. He could shoot earlier.
two. If you believe the "magic bules theory" then you can just as well believe in the 2nd/3rd gunner.
tree. What are we fighting for.

[Nacho]

a) I think you have misunderstood me. I haven't refered to the "magic bullet" theory as the real... The magic bullet theory is quite stupid, IMO. I just mentioned it because the "conspiration theory guys" like to show it as an definitive evidence that the government lies... But the "magical bullet theory" is no longer used in the Warren report.

IMO, how popular the "magic bullet" theory is, shows how the "pro-conspracy" guys like to divert the attention, because they've made popular an old silly theory in spite of the revisited and commendable one.

b) Oswald (Who is Osborne?) was in the top ten shooters of their company... I don't really know how the "rumour" that he was a crappy shooter was spreaded, but I've seen in that documentals the reports that confirm that his shooting performances were very good.

c) Is it funny how the threads change of topic, is it? He... DG is going to kill me, so... More Michael Moore please! 

[DGMacphee]

Don't worry, I won't kill you. In fact, I'm going to use my magic powers to steer this conversation back on track.

Ahem...

Isn't it interesting how time has passed, especially from the Warren Commission's report on JFK (which answered nothing really), to the current 9/11 investigation. I remember co-chair Lee Hamilton say he didn't want the 9/11 investigation to end up like Warren Commission investigation. So, what does everyone think of the 9/11 investigation so far?

Wow! Brilliant fucking segue, even if I do say so myself!

[Primus]

Farlander:
Sorry again for having took too much time, attention and efforts from you.
Ok, I must believe on you and on your proofs. EG every documental I saw - and everything I read - pointed Oswald as being a lousy shooter... and so on. Maybe not convinced, but I'm "vinced". And must follow my own motto: keeping my mind open for other opinions and proofs and so. Sorry for having run away from the main question here, about Disney. I don't like Disney's censorship, but I didn't see the movie either, so I must accept the "vote" and opinions of the majority about this subject.Ã, 
I have alotta doubts yet, as eg DGMacphee, but it's ok, I don't want to increase this so controversial issue.

As a conclusion about II WW and the help America did to the Axe, don't forget America was the land of free opportunity and iniciatives, so it was natural alot of businessmen wanted to profit: it was bad, but, in many cases, $ was stronger than moral, ethic, etc., issues. Eg a few years ago, during the diplomatic "fight" of Portugal against Indonesia, I discovered a box of CD-Rs were made in Indonesia. I threw the CD-Rs away, and hated they could have been sold in a Portuguese shop - from then on, I checked "made in" in whatever before buying ...

[Sutebi]

I think it was this thread that I mentioned the 9/11 investigations, but I think they are utter crap. In my personal opinion, they are really stupid and accomplish nothing. Like I said, all it is is "It's not my fault! Look at him!" type of thing, so nothing gets accomplished. There's Clinton coming out of the woodwork as well, trying to make himself look good and raise sales of his book by saying that he knew everything about the attack but no one listened. I was tired of it from the very beginning.

I don't think we shouldn't look to blame someone for this attack, except, uh, maybe the terrorists group that performed it, but we can't because we don't "understand" them. Let's just kind of move on and accept the fact that these sick individuals did that, just like so many other sick militant idealists (from car bombers, to the Oklahoma City Bomber).

[MrColossal]

What in the world are you talking about?

I am more than interested in knowing where you get this idea that we can't blame the terrorists for september 11th.

Are you insane?

Also, the whole Clinton trying to increase book sales... Yea, he doesn't know what he's talking about... It's not like he was President or anything... Yea just some crazy guy who wrote a book is trying to get people to buy it...  What the hell? He was President of the United States of America. He was trying to get rid of Osama Bin Laden towards the end of his term but that was all just publicity and a smoke screen for Monica Lewinski, right?

Jesus christ man... Maybe if I attack you like this you'll respond to a single one of my posts that had questions directed AT YOU in it. Or you'll keep ignoring them like it seems your ignoring the rest of the world.

[Sutebi]

Was it a smoke screen, I would lean towards yes. You see, the one good thing I could say about the Clintons are that they understand the game of politics very well. He tried to move the public eye away from all his affairs (which, on a slightly unrelated note, a new survey says that about 90% of American's think are wrong to do), so he made an effort to get rid of Osama Bin Laden. Good job he did of that, no wait, he did practically nothing. It was our current president that removed him from power.

Frankly, I think Clinton's book is stupid mostly because he came out and says that his book will be the most important presidential memoir since U.S. Grant's book. Grant's memoirs were very well done, taught the reader a lot about morality, and were written so that Grant's family could be out of debt after Grant died. Clinton's book is just a political agenda driven thing that is rather silly.

Also, I never said we shouldn't blame the terrorists for 9/11, I said that they are only ones we SHOULD blame, and I think it's stupid when people say we can't blame them because we don't "understand" their beliefs.

I do not ignore the world. I appologize if I didn't answer your questions, but I probably missed them among the numerous amount of long posts.Ã,  I am not insane, and please do not use the Lord's name in vain. I hope this post helps you to calm down, my friend.

[Barcik]

Isn't it interesting how time has passed, especially from the Warren Commission's report on JFK (which answered nothing really), to the current 9/11 investigation. I remember co-chair Lee Hamilton say he didn't want the 9/11 investigation to end up like Warren Commission investigation. So, what does everyone think of the 9/11 investigation so far?

Wow! Brilliant fucking segue, even if I do say so myself!

Any surprises there? Commitees are useless.

[MrColossal]

lord's name in vain what now? anyway

again, please tell me where these people are saying that we can't blame the terrorists for september 11th. do you have names?

and is the 9/11 commitee trying to blame september 11th on anyone? I thought they were there to find out what happened security and intelligence wise in the United States.

So maybe you can answer my questions now:

http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=13722.msg180631#msg180631

[DGMacphee]

Any surprises there? Commitees are useless.

Like I said, it was just a segue (and a brilliant one too)!

[Bob The Hun]

I am not insane, and please do not use the Lord's name in vain.

*figures that things couldn't possibly get more off-topic from the OP, so decides to voice opinion on something vaguely mentioned*
I suppose that the definition of 'using the Lord's name in vain' really depends on your interpretation of the Bible. The most common definition of using the Lord's name in vain is, of course, using it like a cuss word. That's the one I was always taught throughout Christian schooling, and the one a vast majority of Christians seem to hold.
I, on the other hand, have long interpreted that differently. IMO, using the Lord's name in vain is using it as though it doesn't matter what His will is. In other words, it would be saying that you speak for God's opinion whether you do or not. That's why "goddamn" would be considered using the Lord's name in vain. It's an abbreviation for "may God damn you", and if used in that context it would be speaking for God by saying it is His will to unleash damnation upon you.
I always have interpreted it this way because to me the commandment makes more since this way. Under the common interpretation, it's just rather disrespectful, and even then it's only disrespectful if used in the right context. But if you think about it, so many wars have been caused by people assuming that they know God's will. The whole "God wants me to kill you" belief has caused countless wars throughout the ages. I think that God would rather have all that destruction stopped than avoiding being slightly disrepected. Don't get me wrong: a devout Christian shouldn't, IMO, use God's name as a swear word. However, I don't think that's what he meant by the commandment.
Also, the whole "God wants me to kill you" belief is largely responsible for all the violence in the Middle East, and is especially respoinsible for terrorist attacks, including 9/11.
(note how I managed to swerve my post back into the current topic at the end  )