English 101 with Trihan sometimes!

[TerranRich]

In American English, we pronounce it "aitch".

[Calin Leafshade]

Although the letter 'H' isn't considered a vowel, the rule for "a" vs. "an" is entirely pronunciation-based. You wouldn't, for example, say, "I waited a hour..." You would say, "I waited an hour..."

The letter 'H' is pronounced as Terran displayed, such as "aitch" (<ref>). The name of the letter is not prefixed with an 'H' sound. You don't pronounce the letter 'F' as "feff". It's pronounced "eff".

"an HBO movie" is therefore correct.

Thats because 'hour' has a silent h. It isnt pronounced.

Happy, Hill, Hex, Ham and Help all have a 'huh' sound. and the letter 'H' is pronounced 'haitch'

Thus its A HBO film. not an

[TerranRich]

Calin, it's "an HBO film" to Americans, because we pronounce the letter "H" with a vowel sound at the beginning. You Brits can say it however you want.

Same with "an LOL moment", because "L" is pronounced with a vowel sound at the beginning ("ell").

I think we need to specify which English this thread is about. LOL

[Calin Leafshade]

it 'An HBO film' to alot of londoners too. Doesn't make it right  :p

[Snarky]

it 'An HBO film' to alot of londoners too. Doesn't make it right  :p

I've lived for years in the UK and the US, and I've never heard anyone pronounce H as "haitch", except for comedic purposes when cockney characters are trying to talk "proper" (such as in the old joke about "dropping your haitches"). Wikipedia offers a capsule discussion, which seems to suggest that "aitch" is the original and most widespread form and "haitch" a hypercorrection.

That's what makes it right.

[LimpingFish]

"An Uwe Boll Film"

That's not right, I thought to myself, my mouth can't form that sentence! It should be "A"! A John Carpenter Film, A Peter Jackson Film, A David Fincher Film..."An" doesn't make any sense!

Uwe = OO-VEE

Oh!

Though, I pronounce "H" as it's meant to be pronounced...intact. Hated, Hero, etc. I don't use "'aitch" as Americans do.

HBO. Hay-ch Bee Oh!

I also use colour, centre, neighbour, and defence, as anything else would just be American. And therefore wrong.

[monkey0506]

The page I referenced (English Wiktionary entry for 'H') references this audio file which both the link and filename indicate as the "UK" pronunciation. Firefox didn't seem to want to play it properly (though I don't know for certain whether that's FF or one of the plugins I have), but audacity revealed the file to say "aitch" and not "haitch". I can accept that some people pronounce it as "haitch". but according to Snarky's sources, "aitch" is correct. Somewhat.

[Snarky]

Though, I pronounce "H" as it's meant to be pronounced...intact. Hated, Hero, etc. I don't use "'aitch" as Americans do.

HBO. Hay-ch Bee Oh!

I also use colour, centre, neighbour, and defence, as anything else would just be American. And therefore wrong.

This isn't actually an issue of British vs. American usage. It's more a case of the Irish (except for Northern Irish Protestants) vs. Everyone Else. "Aitch" has always been the standard in English, as reflected in the (phonetic) spelling. Try Googling "aitch haitch" to see that this "mispronunciation" you're promoting is upsetting pedants and considered "uneducated" all over the world. (This article in The Guardian provides a mild example.)

[LimpingFish]

This isn't actually an issue of British vs. American usage.

True, but I think the general American usage of "aitch" is a major contributory factor to the H debate - more so than a minority of pedantic language snobs - due to the multitude of US TV shows and movies that we outside the US consume.

What always struck me as weird is that the name "Herb" will be pronounced with a strong H, but "herb", as in Oregano, will be pronounced "'erb".

I think "aitch" - if used as suggested in the article linked above - though seemingly correct in the classical sense, would strike some people as old world; similar to spelling Show as Shew, and other such archaic variations on the written word.

Personally, I would think using "'aitch" exclusively would make the speaker sound a little...off. Or a tad cock-er-ny.

And to be honest, I've only ever heard it used in UK regional dialects and in the US. And even in the US it seems to fluctuate.

Screw it. I'd rather be wrong. Haitch Em Vee, Haitch Pee, Haitch Rider Haggard, Haitch R Pufnstuf.

[TerranRich]

I can honestly say that I have never once heard an American pronounce the letter H as "haitch", as opposed to "aitch". When I speak about movies on HBO, I use the article "an" as naturally as I would scratch an itch without thinking about it.

[Layabout]

On old Yorkshireman once told me that if an 'aitch' word starts with an 'A' sound then using 'an' is correct.

[TerranRich]

"an honest mistake"
"an hourly routine"
"a homely appearance"
"a historic event"

The above are all correct, as the "H" sound is different between the top 2 and the bottom 2.

[Snarky]

But "an historic event" would also be correct. ("An history of the United States" would be wrong, however.) There's something about the stress pattern that makes the H in "historic" so light that it has conventionally been disregarded for "a/an" purposes.

[Mr Flibble]

I was going to say, my English teacher once alluded to the rule being about syllables and stresses but he never properly revealed it.

This isn't actually an issue of British vs. American usage. It's more a case of the Irish (except for Northern Irish Protestants) vs. Everyone Else

As a Northern Irish dweller myself I can tell you this is absolutely correct. If you're a Protestant you say "aitch" and if you're a Catholic you say "haitch". It's one of the things people use to guage your upbringing, like if you say "The North of Ireland" instead of "Northern Ireland", or "Derry" as opposed to "Londonderry".

Though as far as *I* was concerned, the "haitch" pronounciation was for English middle class people putting on heirs and graces, inserting H sounds h'into h'words h'where they don't belong.

[TerranRich]

I had always heard that putting "an" before words beginning with the "H" sound was incorrect, as the "H" sound was considered a consonant. I can't say for certain however.

[Snarky]

Yes, that's the general rule, but when the first syllable is unstressed it has traditionally been applied as if the H wasn't there (because in those words it once used to be silent), particularly in longer words. There's a pretty good explanation here.

Particularly in England, pronouncing one's aitches in the "right" places was an important class marker, so "educated people" stuck very strictly to these complicated rules and exceptions. So while this has relaxed somewhat in recent years, the more conservative "an historical, an hypothesis" is still preferred in formal use (I don't think many people still say or write "an hotel", though apparently the BBC Manual of Style recommends it). American references tend to prefer the simplified rule, and sometimes consider "an+unstressed H" to be pretentious.

[Scarab]

Though as far as *I* was concerned, the "haitch" pronounciation was for English middle class people putting on heirs and graces, inserting H sounds h'into h'words h'where they don't belong.

"I Don't get why you're saying it that way"
"Saying h'what h'what 'hway?"

Hot Rod: good movie

[monkey0506]

One that I'm actually surprised to see hasn't cropped up here yet:

This affected that which in turn gave the effect.

The general rule as I was taught it on this is that "effect" is used (in most cases) as in "cause and effect":

The effect of the volcano's eruption was the loss of many lives and homes.

Most other cases use "affect":

The devastation the eruption left behind affected many people.

There are also "special effects" though and certain circumstances in which "effect" can be used as a verb, actually denoting that the scenario described is a direct result of something else (producing an effect).

His poor performance effected his low final score.

That is, the "low final score" was a direct result (an effect) of "his poor performance."

I often see people using "affect" and "effect" interchangeably and thought this might help clarify things a bit.

[Stupot]

Where is Trihan these days?

[monkey0506]

He's h'on h'a h'grammatical h-h-h-hiatus. 8)