English 101 with Trihan sometimes!

zabnat · Thu 23/07/2009 00:17:10

Quote from: Trihan on Mon 13/07/2009 16:03:08
BONUS LESSON: than/then
----------------------------------
I've seen many, many people stumble headlong into the pitfall that is than/then. I think it's mostly people whose mother tongue isn't English, but since the two words are so similar I'll take a little bit of time to explain what each one actually is, and what it's used for.

Actually, the thing is, that I've probably mostly seen this from the people (and authors too) whose mother tongue is English (American English to be precise). And I knew it was wrong, that is what confused me.

On the other hand, maybe they are the same people who say "teh bestest thing ever".

Quote from: Trihan on Mon 13/07/2009 16:03:08
I'd rather confuse some people and possibly educate some others then suffer people constantly misusing these two words. Until next time!

You evil man.

Andail · Thu 23/07/2009 17:11:32

Snarky, you're absolutely right!
Bah, this is what summer break does to a teacher.

ThreeOhFour · Wed 29/07/2009 13:37:56

Ho ho! I have a question and there is actually a proper thread kicking around in which to ask it so that I do not have to make a new one

In writing, I sometimes see the word "O" where I would usually expect an "Oh", and I am wondering whether there is any particular rule which dictates when or where this is appropriate.

For example, last night I wrote the line "O Timothy, my love, why must we be separated so?" into my game, but when playing it I was unsure if it was correct or not. Any thoughts?

Atelier · Wed 29/07/2009 13:55:08

O 3 |oʊ| |əʊ|
exclamation
1 archaic spelling of oh.
2 archaic used before a name in direct address, as in prayers and poetry : give peace in our time, O Lord.

Taken from my computer's dictionary.

It's acceptable, but just an old version of Oh.

EDIT: And especially used in prose poetry.

Trihan · Wed 29/07/2009 14:02:25

Yep, perfectly acceptable. In fact if the game is set some time in the past, I'd definitely use O over Oh.

GreenBoy · Thu 30/07/2009 08:19:37

I was thinking the other day does the word "Hyperbole" relate to understatements as well as exagerations?

For example "I couldn't believe the size of that pizza, I could barely see it."

I searched but couldn't find anything really definative.

Andail · Thu 30/07/2009 09:39:20

Green Boy, a hyperbole is only an exaggeration.

If you claim that a pizza is so small that you can barely see it, that's an exaggeration (unless it is literally that small). It doesn't become an understatement just because it's a matter of small size.

Jared · Thu 30/07/2009 10:19:32

Yeah, an understatement isn't saying that something is smaller than it really is (as the term may suggest) but rather a statement that seems to inadequately describe the truth of the situation.

So to carry on from your example, "That pizza is a bit small" would be an understatement if the pizza was actually the size of a biscuit. Or "The pizza seems rather large" if the pizza had enveloped your entire house.

Understatements aren't really a grammatical device, though - it's purely subjective from one person to another if a term describes something adequately or 'understates' the facts.

ThreeOhFour · Thu 30/07/2009 11:43:22

Thanks for the tips, AtelierGames and Trihan

It isn't set in the past, but with that in mind I might keep it the way it is anyway.

InCreator · Tue 04/08/2009 10:54:26

Maybe it feels so only for a non-native speaker, but US english and UK english have mixed too much to make any sense anymore.

* Defense or Defence? (i personally prefer S-version)
* color or colour? (are they same? Or is latter a verb? Sounds french so I assume it's UK-version)
* what's the verb of relieving a running nose? Is there a better word than "running nose", describing it as condition? It's quite strange word with adjective. In other languages, it's usually only one word.

Trihan · Tue 04/08/2009 14:37:30

As far as defence/defense, colour/color, valour/valor, honour/honor etc. go it's really up to the individual, there is no right or wrong way.

We usually say runny nose.

Mr Flibble · Wed 05/08/2009 21:45:27

Quote from: Trihan on Tue 04/08/2009 14:37:30
As far as defence/defense, colour/color, valour/valor, honour/honor etc. go it's really up to the individual, there is no right or wrong way.

We usually say runny nose.

It's actually an American English/British English thing.

British- Defence
US- Defense

British- Colour
US- Color

Valour/Valor seem to be perfectly legitimate alternative spellings in either.

British- Honour
US- Honor

SSH · Thu 06/08/2009 09:53:18

Quote from: InCreator on Tue 04/08/2009 10:54:26
* what's the verb of relieving a running nose? Is there a better word than "running nose", describing it as condition? It's quite strange word with adjective. In other languages, it's usually only one word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runny_nose

Rhinorrhea, apparently

TerranRich · Fri 07/08/2009 02:05:31

Rhinorrhea! I've got to remember that!

Stupot · Sun 09/08/2009 19:49:06

Quote from: InCreator on Tue 04/08/2009 10:54:26
* Defense or Defence? (i personally prefer S-version)

Not a question as such, just a possible branch of discussion...
Its interesting how American and British English (and others) differ in the stress of certain words, such as 'defence'. Where as the Brits say deFENCE, the Yanks among us say DEfence.

Same with lemonADE vs. LEMONade and... damn, I can't think of any other examples right now, but there are probably thousands.

Snarky · Sun 09/08/2009 23:43:46

Really? Do you call Robert Gates the DEE-fence Secretary?

Stupot · Mon 10/08/2009 14:45:00

Quote from: Snarky on Sun 09/08/2009 23:43:46
Really? Do you call Robert Gates the DEE-fence Secretary?

Hmm, good point, but I still hear that a lot in American English... perhaps more in a sporting context.

Andail · Mon 10/08/2009 17:27:16

Don't you say DEfence in certain isolated cases, as in "he's on the defence"... or other strategy/sport-related cases?

Another thing I've noticed lately is the use of "try and do something". I've seen this even in professional writing. Surely it must be incorrect to use anything but the infinitive marker "try to do something". It seems like something that began in spoken English and then made its way into even more formal texts.

DoorKnobHandle · Mon 10/08/2009 17:36:24

But '(to) try' can stand without an object, so you can say:

"Well, I tried."

If you use '(to) try' in such an intransitive way, the following is in fact correct:

"Let's try and do this."

If you paraphrase the meaning, it could be like this:

"Okay, let's do this. Well, let's try (to)."

I absolutely see what you mean though and what I said there is probably really over-interpretation, of course the saying 'try and do sth.' implies 'try to do sth.' more than what I said. In any case, there are tons of examples of things you can say that are technically grammatically incorrect, yet people started using it in spoken language (often due to the principle of economy, ie. simplifying pronunciation etc.) and then it entered written and then even formally written as well.

SSH · Mon 10/08/2009 18:01:51

Quote from: Andail on Mon 10/08/2009 17:27:16
Another thing I've noticed lately is the use of "try and do something". I've seen this even in professional writing. Surely it must be incorrect to use anything but the infinitive marker "try to do something". It seems like something that began in spoken English and then made its way into even more formal texts.

I think you're right. I guess its a bit like those who say "It must of been him..." when they mean "It must have been him..."