Expressing Atheism

[MrColossal]

This community is full of atheists.  I mean, percentage wise...

I also am quite surprised at the number of atheists/non-believers on these forums. It was rather refreshing to be able to speak to people in real life at Mittens who are either atheists or non-believers about subjects usually stuck on the internet.

I tire very easily of people and their religions. When I hear someone talking about giving something up for lent I just want to fall asleep. When I hear about someone praying to a saint to help them find a lost watch I fall into a coma. When I hear someone thanking the lord for a quick birth for their wife I want to first ask them about all the people who have very painful and long births or where someone dies in the process or the baby is suffocated by the umbilical chord, if we have the lord to thank for that... And then going to bed straight after. Somethings make me sleepy and some things make me angry and then sleepy.

Does anybody have trouble bringin it up in public or among friends?

I am mostly silent because True Believers will never be able to talk or discuss something without falling into various logical holes full of phalluses that make me even more tired.

I hate when people say Richard Dawkins is rude or whatever... How can one be rude when the majority of the world believes that you will go to another dimension and burn in a lake of fire FOR ETERNITY? What can I possibly say to someone that is more rude or condescending than that? When entering a debate with someone and you feel that this person is mistaken and carries awkward beliefs brought about by history, fear of the unknown and ignorance towards natural science and they believe that you deserve to be punished in FLAMES for an eternity...

This is why I don't feel too bad about my dismissive/sleepy/angry reaction to people of the popular faiths, Evenwolf.

I was impressed when Jess wrote a little biography for herself to be published in the back of a comic collection she was in [that or a newspaper article, I don't remember!] and she wrote "I am an atheist" among the things about herself. I never would have done that because I'm maybe overly sensitive to statistics and polls about atheists being the last socially acceptable group to openly hate...

[Meowster]

I hate when people say Richard Dawkins is rude or whatever... How can one be rude when the majority of the world believes that you will go to another dimension and burn in a lake of fire FOR ETERNITY? What can I possibly say to someone that is more rude or condescending than that? When entering a debate with someone and you feel that this person is mistaken and carries awkward beliefs brought about by history, fear of the unknown and ignorance towards natural science and they believe that you deserve to be punished in FLAMES for an eternity...

They're not being rude, they're just giving you the facts!

(I got told this to my face once after I asked a girl why she thought she had the right to tell me I was going to burn in hell for eternity... "I'm not telling you, I'm just giving you the facts")

[Ashen]

I never would have done that because I'm maybe overly sensitive to statistics and polls about atheists being the last socially acceptable group to openly hate...

There's an interview with Douglas Adams, by (I think) American Atheist magazine, and one of the questions is "have you ever felt discriminated against because of your atheism?" His reply was something like, "the idea is ridiculous to me", which is pretty much what I felt. Is it really that serious a concern? (Also, if anyone has 'The Salmon of Doubt' handy, could they look this up to make sure I'm not imagining things?)

I class myself as an atheist. It's not something I say often - not because it's difficult, just because I don't often talk to people who much care one way or the other. The closest was a Jehova's Witness who called round and left a magazine for me to read. They called back a few days later, I said "I don't believe in God", they said "thank you for your time" and left. When people who go out and knock on doors specifically to spread a religion are that accepting, things like polls claiming atheists are the least trusted minority in the US seem a little daft.

[Mr Flibble]

I was brought up by parents who didn't care about religion at all. In primary school, RE classes and bible stories just seemed like something you learnt. "Jesus was this dude, he did stuff, Kicking rad lets go have some juice." I wish I could remember how I felt about religion as a child, I don't really think it bothered me. I had a mental image of God being a 100-foot tall Santa Claus who sort of.. was wider than the universe and was inescapable.

Clearly I was never going to be an award winning Christian, but I didn't understand enough about the world until I was about 9 or 10 to be able to definitely say I didn't believe in God.

Expressing Atheism is hard, I tend not to because it's simply never an issue. I don't like poking fun at religious people either, although, I make two exceptions. Firstly, I would say something against teaching creationist theories in Science classes or burning children's books which contain magic.... Secondly, I cannot stand it when people seem to pity me for being an atheist. I don't know if anyone else has experienced that, but it's incredibly frustrating.

I mean, I don't pity religious people unless they're completely blinded by their faith and it causes them to act stupidly... so I don't enjoy being pitied for my atheism when I don't do anything wrong. I have a happy life and I help people around me, it's not as if I go out at night and slaughter orphans.

[Darth Mandarb]

I believe in [a] God ... but I also believe in Science.

I believe "God" = "Nature" ... I think, through-out time, those worshipping a God or Gods were all, in effect, worshipping the same thing.  They just interpret it in different ways.  They see lightning and the power of it and to their primitive minds they assume it must be some other form of life causing it thus they give it a human(esque) appearance and call it a god.  Who's to say it's not?

I think religions are a sign of the times.  When the idea of creation (in christianity) came 'round the people at the time had no concept of evolution, so they interpretted "where do we come from?" in the only way that, at the time, made sense to them.  You don't eat meat on Fridays 'cause by Friday (without refridgeration) the meat would have gone bad and would make you sick if you ate it.

I think it's somewhat silly to assume that we humans are the highest form of life given how inconvenient organic life is.  We're incredibly fragile (very easy to harm/kill).  We have to constantly fuel ourselves (eat/drink) and we must constantly rid ourselves of bodily waste (potty time) and we're only around for a very short amount of time (universally speaking).  If that's a higher form of being I'm ashamed to call myself one!

I don't have a problem with religion.  It comforts a lot of people and makes them feel like life isn't completely pointless (which, if you think about it, it really is).  I admire people that can devote themselves to a relgion and have the discipline to follow through (as long as they aren't using their religion as a means to justify hatred and killing of their "enemies"... that's just dumb)

I know a lot of Christians that are smart, normal people who just follow a different path.  They aren't stupid because they believe in God and the Bible.  The very nature of faith is, in my opinion, believing in something you can't prove.

I have a policy of ignoring people's beliefs.  If you don't believe in god, good for you.  But don't assume that those who do are ignorant just 'cause you don't.  That's the same thing as calling somebody ignorant 'cause they don't like the same kind of food you do.

My favorite line from the movie/book "Contact" was when Ellie tells Palmer that she would need some proof to know that God existed. 

Palmer says, "Did you love your father?".
"Yes ... very much." Ellie replies.
"Prove it."

[Becky]

Ashen, I checked for you, he said "Not even remotely.  It's an inconceivable idea."

Expressing my atheism is easy.  Someone asks "do you believe in a god?", and I say "no".  I don't understand why a lot of time needs to be devoted to that.

[evenwolf]

I never would have openly said I was an atheist.   There's just no need to.     But one christmas my brother actually started digging into me and was goading me on.   I soon after declared myself atheist.

I had been an agnostic out of courtesy.    My family doesn't want me to go to hell.  But here I was with my brother...during Christmas... and he keeps digging and digging.   Laughing like he's got some bet with God.    Now what's the point in isolating me?  There are only two scenarios:

1.    We interact with each other until we die.   Then there is nothing and we never see each other again.

2.   We interact with each other until we die.   My brother relaxes and drinks martinis in heaven while I burn in a lake of fire.  My brother is in paradise...oh except he can never see his brother anymore.  He's damned for all eternity.   That's heaven.  Knowing your friends and loved ones are forever in agony.

[Ashen]

Ashen, I checked for you, he said "Not even remotely.  It's an inconceivable idea."

Thank you.

[Moox]

     I am not a church going Christian, however I believe in the moral code of the bible and the existence of God. The bible illustrates a set of laws and morals for living, this is its most important contribution to modern society. The biblical text teaches basic stuff such as not to commit murder or adultery, to respect ones parents. I live my life based on the principles of what is right and what is wrong using this document as a basic outline. The problem is not with the teachings of the bible but rather with modern religious establishments. Money and evangelical teachings have become so ingrained in Christian culture that it has become ludicrous. People are pushing their sects farther and farther apart with extreme beliefs in order to differentiate their faith from other Christian faiths.
     The belief in God does not mean total disregard for science. I believe in evolution both micro and macro, however I also believe that god created the original organism from which all life stemmed. I believe that God set in motion the universe in such away as it doesn't require constant interaction. This is a rather deist view but I hold to it. The laws of science are so advanced that there has to be a greater being, a being that scientists have not been able to disprove for over two millenniums. Atheists that challenge the existence of God are dolts, you can challenge a religion, however challenging the existence of God without proof for the contrary is nothing more then pure madness derived from a mind that wishes for there to be no God. Faith in God is not the same as faith in a religion. Faith in God could very well be engraved in our psyches. Epileptic seizures have been found to give even atheists faith experiences. Science has no explanation for these visions much like it has no way to disprove the existence of God. I want to finish up this post with a joke I read the other day that is fitting of this thread.

God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, “Lord, we don't need
you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of
nothing. In other words, we can now do what you did in the ‘beginning.'”

“Oh, is that so? Tell me…” replies God.

“Well, ” says the scientist, “we can take dirt and form it into the likeness
of You and breathe life into it, thus creating man.”

“Well, that's interesting. Show Me.”

So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil.

“Oh no, no, no…” interrupts God,


“Get your own dirt.”

[space boy]

Expressing my atheism is easy.  Someone asks "do you believe in a god?", and I say "no".  I don't understand why a lot of time needs to be devoted to that.

I don't think it's that easy for everyone. In some parts of the world your environment won't care about you being an atheist. In that case it's just as easy as you said. In other areas someone who admits they're an atheist may be rejected by their family and friends or even get harmed physically. When you're faced with consequences like that you can't simply answer "no".

The biblical text teaches basic stuff such as not to commit murder or adultery, to respect ones parents. I live my life based on the principles of what is right and what is wrong using this document as a basic outline.

What about the parts in the bible that say that you should stone your inobedient child or kill people who work on the sabbath?

Atheists that challenge the existence of God are dolts, you can challenge a religion, however challenging the existence of God without proof for the contrary is nothing more then pure madness derived from a mind that wishes for there to be no God.

Can you disprove shiva, quetzalcoatl, swarog, baal or seth? No? That means all of these gods exist.

The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim. "There is no god" is not an extraordinary claim just like saying "there are no smurfs".

Personally I'm not trying to disprove god. I'm asking believers to show me evidence for god which apparently is a great difficulty for them.

Epileptic seizures have been found to give even atheists faith experiences.

So does fever, alzheimers and marihuana.

[Stupot]

To me God simply doesn't exist and it frustrates me that so many otherwise intelligent people can possibly believe that he does.

I'm a bit of an atheist preacher myself.  I used to say I respect other peoples religions, but I've lost my patience.  How can people so blind be in charge of our countries, and our armies.  It's unbelievable.

Let me tell you a little story...
When I was about 10/11 I went to Sunday school, called myself a Christian and sang hymns and ate biscuits with the other kids.
Then one day my Sunday school teacher said the love for your Christian brothers and sisters is the strongest love.  Stronger than blood relations.  So I said "you mean I should love the people in this room more than my own sisters?"... he basically said yeh, thats the answer, and I walked out of the room and my anger at the baptist soon dissipated along with my respect for God...

Then it wasn't long before it became obvious that god doesn't exist.  And it is fucking obvious which is why I get so angry.

[Moox]

To me God simply doesn't exist and it frustrates me that so many otherwise intelligent people can possibly believe that he does.

Belief in God makes one unintelligent?

Then it wasn't long before it became obvious that god doesn't exist.  And it is fucking obvious which is why I get so angry.

Proof?


People like you are the reason why atheists get bad names. You have hatred towards those of differing believes. You skip being rationale and jump straight to name calling. You dont believe in the existence of God because you choose not too just like I believe in the existence of God because I choose too. There is not science to support either of our views, however you turn into an angry dog at the sound of the word God. The reason that most believers mock you is not because you are an atheist, it is because of your attitude. You have a false sense of superiority. "I dont believe in God, I am smarter than you." when in fact you are making claims without scientific backing just as I am. There is no mental superiority in being an atheist. Drop it.

[MrColossal]

I find it awkward that someone is asking for proof that god DOESN'T exist but this isn't the thread for another series of posts about existance/nonexistance of God. Let's try and keep it to personal views and feelings on being an atheist.

[LimpingFish]

As stated before, regarding the belief in any God or god-like deity, I am resoundingly agnostic.

It is a question that simply cannot be answered. By anyone. Not the Pope, not President Shrub, not even Billy Meier.

The human race strives to give a higher meaning to it's seemingly arbitrary existence, and a reason for thousands of years of pain and suffering. A cosmic reward to make it all worthwhile.

Or humanity just needs a purpose, or maybe even just a point, to justify it's continuing journey on this rotating ball of dirt.

The black and the white: "God does exist" vs "God does not exist."

Both arguments indicate knowledge of an ultimate answer. Both arguments are therefore null. The question itself is flawed, since no finite resolution can possibly be reached from our existential vantage point.

Forget eternal salvation. Forget the theory of evolution. Far more important, to both camps, is clearly the need to be right. To win.

A contest I would rather not be a party to.

[Moox]

Eric, I am asking nothing of the sort. It was a sarcastic comment meant to get Stupot to realize he isn't intellectually superior for not believing in the existence of God. I support people with morals, if an atheist has good morals then I will accept them as a friend just as I would a Christian or a Jew. However when an atheist spends their time bashing people that dont believe what they do I disregard them just as I would a Christian or a Jew. If you have a problem with religious establishments leave it at that, don't cross the line to attack others.

[evenwolf]

Well its just a matter of time before the theologies start to boil.   I guessed that coming into this thread.   But a part of me did hope as a world minority we'd get some good shared experiences going.   I even like the Christian experiences...  but I hope all challenges can be put aside for whatever afterlife thread pops up later this week.   

[MrColossal]

The black and the white: "God does exist" vs "God does not exist."

Both arguments indicate knowledge of an ultimate answer. Both arguments are therefore null. The question itself is flawed, since no finite resolution can possibly be reached from our existential vantage point.

People say this quite a bit and it's never made much sense to me. You can't also prove that there isn't a race of sentient rocks living in the center of Jupiter who are undetectable. You can't prove that a magical, invisible dragon doesn't live in my garage.

What you can do is test claims made by believers/the bible/the koran/the whatever and this is what people do and what science inadvertantly does. The earth is not the center of the universe, man is the product of a loooong chain of small changes through natural selection. These are 2 scientifically accepted truths that destroy arguements made by various religious figures throughout time. Does it disprove the idea of a magical being in another dimension that created the universe? No. Does it mark against Christian/Jewish/whatever teachings? Yes. If one can shed light on the authors, the creation, the inaccuracies, the inconsitancies, the ideological borrowing and the editing of various religious texts on earth, one can start to disprove THOSE gods. But if you just want to start creating new gods to speak about that are not related to these teachings, sure I can't disprove them. But as soon as you make a claim based on that belief, we can test it.

THAT... Is what I love about being an atheist. In fact, the eyeopening that I receive on a pretty much daily basis from being an atheist has made me the happiest I've been in my life. Evenwolf, are you happier now? I used to look back in anger [not that I was particularly religious but URGH! Stupid little kid eric!] but thinking about my life in the now and how I feel is so good.

[evenwolf]

eric:   I'm not as shy anymore.   Im working on happiness.   At least I'm getting somewhere as a human being because I'm no longer a little kid that runs around and agrees with everything.   That was always my problem.   I cared what everyone thought of me.   So maybe I didn't even believe ever.  The right expression is that I "played along."   

What Ive found is how selfish a person I am.   My fear of death, my jealousy of friends and loved ones, my wanting of an afterlife.   So opening my eyes to atheism actually does give hope.    To live life the right way.   I actually did abstain from sex and girls for all of high school and most of college.    It wasn't out of belief but the pride interpreted from what I  thought others gained from belief.   

One of my best revelations came to me when my sister left me a message.  She said one of her dogs had died.   Selfishly I didnt call her back.  In my delusion,  I deeply felt that if I didnt call I would be keeping all of those dogs alive.   It was comforting.. because calling was to doom one dog to die.   And I realized that's what heaven is.  Its the delusion that things don't really die.   But everything dies.  You have to face it.


My favorite atheist died while I was reading his books.  That's the only despair I have felt thus far.   When my guide to humanity up and quit.

[MrColossal]

Stephen Jay Gould?

[LimpingFish]

People say this quite a bit and it's never made much sense to me. You can't also prove that there isn't a race of sentient rocks living in the center of Jupiter who are undetectable. You can't prove that a magical, invisible dragon doesn't live in my garage.

And you can't prove it either. I can camp out in your garage, festooned with all manner of detection equipment, and the best I can hope for is a slight rustling of dust bunnies. It proves nothing, except that any magical dragons inhabiting said garage were possibly out for the evening. I would also have no starting point for which to detect dragons, magical or otherwise, and nothing to base any possible evidence on. You could simply say that the alleged dragon only appears to you. I would be able to neither confirm or deny, and you would have no other evidence to offer other than your word.

Stalemate. A total inability, on either side, to offer tangible proof to confirm or deny the existence of magical dragons. The question is therefore unanswerable without direct intervention of a dragon. Or a sentient Jupiterian rock formation.

I don't see what is so hard to understand. We can anyalyse and investigate, test claims until cows give birth to wardrobes, and be none the wiser. Ever. Or at least until somebody comes foward with a God-shaped box and cries "Ta da!".

There exists nothing to prove the existence of God, or nothing to disprove the same. Miracles, Dinosaurs, Darwinism, angel sightings, virgin births...

The agnostic, depending on the basis of their agnostism, doesn't even ask the question. The futility of trying to prove/disprove and the very nature of the question itself are one and the same.

Therefore, my point isn't "Don't even bother."

My point is "Why even bother?."

And I realized that's what heaven is.  Its the delusion that things don't really die.   But everything dies.  You have to face it.

Death is a concrete certainty, a tangible factor in the equation. Death proves the existence of Life, and vice versa.

But neither Death, nor Life, prove (or disprove) the existence of God. The acceptance of Death is non-variable. To accept something, the possibility to deny it has to be, if not attainable, at least viable. You can't deny the concept of Death to any sustainable degree. Just as you cannot deny the concept of Life. We, Humanity as a whole, can only try to attach meaning to each.

And in defining what we believe Life/Death to be, is where we begin to, if not understand, at least comprehend our existence.