Adventure Game Studio

I thought this would be the safest place to put this.
Any way , I think any and all females here should try and join as a team.
I'm an amateur at alot of things myself , so I apoligize if I'm not much help with games but I try and am always grateful for any interest in me and my limited skills. ^_^;

It would be nice to know just how many members here are female and it would be cool to have an all female group ( even a small one ) involved in helping each other and others out , creating games as a team , games that weren't made as a team but still by a female AGS member , blah blah blah.

What do you all think? ( and a note for male creators : thanks for any non-stereotypical female characters in your games and the ones that do make stereotypical female characters in their games...I want to hurt you. ;-P )

Huh? You want us to single out the female AGS developers?

OKAY!

Spooks by The Ivy. She's a FEMALE! This in turn makes the game completely and utterly different to all the games made by males*.

*Note sarcasm.

Seriously though, why do you want a team of females only?

I'm non-gender specific since I'm actually a self-aware PC running advanced AI software. Do I count?

( and a note for male creators : thanks for any non-stereotypical female characters in your games and the ones that do make stereotypical female characters in their games...I want to hurt you. ;-P )

That's mean... we just don't know what non-stereotypical women look like because they're always off forming their own all-girl secret clubs :(

Lemmy, posting in this one thread might not be the best idea ever!

Quote from: Helm on Mon 25/09/2006 11:25:49
Lemmy, posting in this one thread might not be the best idea ever!

I think you'll find it was someone ripping into our "story not making sense" that got my back up before :) I assume that's what you're refering to or you would have given a similar warning to the Cap'n. ;)

Quotestereotypical female characters

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/element_banner4.gif)

I'm just saying, this might prove to be an interesting thread!

;)

I refuse.

For all this time women have suffered... It is time we all unite to end women's suffrage, for it is a terrible thing!

Who's with me?

You're all alone.

I married a girl and she de-balled me.  Can I join?

Hmm, I guess I'll have to be careful how my character turns out from now on.

For sure, that's progress. :)

Then maybe, just maybe, one day the stereotypical woman may be a flat-chested punk girl with spikey turquise hair and a tattoo of a sparrow with a snapped neck on her face... then we can start making games with big boobed women and be applauded by all for it. Hurrah!

How sexist of you, queen kara!

Seriously, though.. I actually find this very discriminating... It would probably be an uproar if a male member would make a similar thread.. "Males, Unite!" The world is beginning to become so non-discriminating against women, it's starting to get discriminating against men! :P

I agree. Furthermore, if there was a game with a man wearing a jock strap and a huge bulge, and men had issues playing that, it would probably be more down to us being uncomfortable with our own sexuality than anything else.  ;)

On a different but extremely relevant tangent, I remember when I was deeply offended by the BBC poll "100 greatest black Britons" Stealth segrigation, in your case self-enforced, and there's no need.

The fact that a stereotype exists in the first place may annoy you, join the club! I get annoyed by stereotypes I don't believe I fit into, and I get wound up every night in my volcano lair and all I can do is stroke my cat to calm down... but then ganging together into a club isn't exactly going to help matters. Surely it would be better, instead of having a team of four women making a game about a non-stereotypical woman for your own quest to destroy this media driven stereotype men have (or apparently have in some cases), to have those four women join four different teams with men and influence the portrayal of women in four games, and perhaps educating these poor media-hypnotised fools with your enlightened views as you go? ;)

Personally, I'm considering starting a game project where everybody on the team must be called Colin and have a lisp. Any takers?

My name is Victor, and I know a lesbian.. Can i join?

For once, I'll be the one to say: you're making a bigger deal out of this than I can justify making. Descrimination? We used to have nationality-based ags groups, and nobody complained. Why not gender or creed or whatever else people feel like?

Nationality makes perfect sense, it gives those people the opportunity to meet up and discuss things in person, and more often ensures a common language and time zone to work in.

GAC never did :P I met Butcher long after GAC went dormant, and I still haven't met Spyros or Danny.

Thats hardly the point. Nationality-based groups give a person the opportunity to discuss in the same language and/or meet other persons from the forum.

A gender-based group system wouldnt make any sense at all IMHO  :-\

How could you possibly feel discriminated by this? Honestly, take that stick out of your asses and let the female AGS'ers do as they please. Besides, more girls who're interested in AGS = the better. We all saw what Kinoko and the Ivy did (and that's just 2!). They happened to make 2 of the best AGS games available :)

Let them unite, work together, whatever. They'll still hang out here.

On another topic, I suggest the name Girl Adventure Gamers for the group you'd be forming ;)

Thing is Helm, you're right... if they want to have an all-female team then no problem, why not? That's great, knock yourself out. But then to have a pop at the products of certain all male teams (of which we'd be naive to assume we were not at least one of the teams eluded to there) in the same breath as forming a coalition of females sounds more like building an army than anything else, if you get where I'm coming from?

anyway don't want to rip open this old bag of fun again ;D point made I feel.

Victor, seriously, how big a point is that? Nationality-based groups are mostly a gimmick and a way to express some sort of nationalistic pride. It's not like being able to community in your own language will help making the best game ever, especially since all terms and tech-talk will be in English anyway.

The thread-topic is actually a bit intruiging, for two major reasons:
1. Most games out there have a very male (especially male adolescent) viewpoint
2. Games made by women (Mom's quest, cirque the soleil for instance) have mostly been very good and original.

Generally I don't support this sort of grouping, but the gaming industry is so extremely male-dominated that a certain amount of gender-thinking may prove fruitful.

Hm, certainly an interesting idea, Kara.  Did you have any specific ideas for a project?  I'd be willing to collaborate on something fairly small. 

P.S. Thanks for the mention, ManicMatt and voh. :)

Thing is, get a group of girls together an make a good game. Get a bunch of guys together and make a good game. The girl game can feature bunnies, horses, or guys with large packets - I don't care. The guy game can feature cars, spacemen, or girls with big boobs - I don't care. The point is... GOOD game.  I'll play either as long as it's good. What I don't like is if the motivation is just to make a point. Make a good game with a point, great - extra depth. Make a crap game with a point, and it's still a crap game.

I never felt discriminated. I actually see discriminating as something extremely ridiculous, but when someone makes an exlusive group, based on gender, or race, because they feel that the other gender or race is incompetent in helping them, it just feels wrong. I don't mind there being more female members in these forums at all, but excluding males from a team, just because they are male, is actually discriminating.

Quote2. Games made by women (Mom's quest, cirque the soleil for instance) have mostly been very good and original.

I don't see how these games are any "better" or "more original" than, say, the trilby series or Cedric and the revolution.
And can you please define a "male point of view"?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but i don't get the point of separating male and female in terms of creativity etc.

I hope that you don't mean Cirque de Zale, Andail, becaus I don't really see any girlish touch in that game. In fact, the main character is a self-absorbed juvenile the more I think about it.

let them do what they want! Why does everything have to find opposition from people? Are you guys looking for things to bitch at? Just do your own thing and let them do theirs. If they're interested in starting a girl-only group, all the more power to them!

I think it's an awesome idea :)

Quote from: voh on Mon 25/09/2006 15:53:33
let them do what they want! Why does everything have to find opposition from people? Are you guys looking for things to bitch at? Just do your own thing and let them do theirs. If they're interested in starting a girl-only group, all the more power to them!

I think it's an awesome idea :)

I agree ENTIRELY.

But then the same has to apply to this:

"and the ones that do make stereotypical female characters in their games...I want to hurt you. ;-P"

:)

QuoteI'm non-gender specific since I'm actually a self-aware PC running advanced AI software. Do I count?

SHODAN was female, I tell you! ;D

Also:  Who cares what kind of groups form?  While I think something like this post is rather a waste of time and would be better served as some kind of rule in a recruit a team game thread, I don't see why it should bother anyone at all.

I don't suppose there was any actual venom in what Queen Kara said, to be honest. It's an off-the-cuff remark levelled at what is pretty much the case for a lot of videogames out there. While I agree with pretty much everything that's been said, I think it's possible to read too much into this. I think this thread's been hijacked quite enough :p

Okay, then... Forget what i said :P I've stopped caring... -_-

I really don't see anything wrong with this. To say that "You'd all hate me if I created an all male group for making games" is kind of silly, considering that probably over 90% of the members here are male. If they create good games, that's great! I really don't see a case of "We're only allowing girls in here, get out! Boys have cooties (or whatever)! They aren't as clever as us!". I assume that most people on this forum have grown out of that sort of behaviour.

QuoteI assume that most people on this forum have grown out of that sort of behaviour.

Not when their male-superiority is offended!

Hey! That hurts!

Great idea! I'd be interested to be put to shame by an all-girl team!



Just don't read my signiature.

Quote from: lemmy101 on Mon 25/09/2006 15:56:38
I agree ENTIRELY.

But then the same has to apply to this:

"and the ones that do make stereotypical female characters in their games...I want to hurt you. ;-P"

:)

;-P suggests to me that it was meant at least halfway tongue-in-cheek. It's not a big deal at all. Besides, it's not like your game is being shut down or anything. What benefit is it to you if she comes back and says, "You're right lemmy. I'm sorry for what I said. You deserve a medal"?

Nothing really. People are just preaching "let them do what they want" and complaining about others making similarly tounge-in-cheek responses to the no-boys-allowed post, I just wanted to highlight that this is a two way thing :) of course I'm not thinking Kara's about to embark upon a journey around the world to beat up all people having "stereotypical women" in their games, but there was definitely a point to be made by this post, tounge-in-cheek or not.

I've already said, if a group of AGS femmes want to have a women only team, then I wish them all the best of luck, and I'm sure whatever they do will be as great as the people involved are talented. I just questioned the intent behind doing so, but I've made my point and am not going to keep going on about it for the sake of it, as it doesn't really matter that much :) (unless people keep pulling me up on it of course :) I find it hard to resist)

QuoteI just questioned the intent behind doing so, but I've made my point and am not going to keep going on about it for the sake of it, as it doesn't really matter that much

My point exactly! :)
I don't mind anyone grouping together and making the best gane in teh world, but i wondered about the intent of it being all-women. I mean, if a guy would make the same thread, it would have been locked or deleted right away.. This is the thing i reacted at :P

I mis-read this thread title as 'Females, Urinate!'.

I don't have dyslexia. I'm a bit scared of my mental frame of mind. I don't have a watersports fetish or anything. I'm just a sick bastard.

Thank you.

Man you guys just can't bloody read, can you?

From the original post:

QuoteIt would be nice to know just how many members here are female and it would be cool to have an all female group ( even a small one ) involved in helping each other and others out , creating games as a team , games that weren't made as a team but still by a female AGS member , blah blah blah.

There's no evil sinister anti-man intent here.  I can clearly see that:

a) The OP is interested in the number of active female members.
b) The OP would be interested in working with other female members as a group.
c) The OP would like to be part of a group that helps other female adventure game makers out.

Where does any of that imply that games made by an all-male team are rubbish?  Nowhere.

In these sort of forums there are generally a low(er) proportion of female members and you know, sometimes us girls like to stick together.  It's not a huge discriminatory deal.

Relax peoples.. I mean hey, aren't we all members of the "American Girl Scouts" now anyways? So in that case, we all can join in on da "team".  ;) Though me, I snuck into AGS as an FBI .. errr.. "Female Body Inspector" that is. Heheh.  :=
*Oh boy, I'm gonna get flack for this post*

Quote from: Becky on Mon 25/09/2006 17:50:44Man you guys just can't bloody read, can you?

I'm offended  :P
I can read just fine. It's spelling, grammar, and conversing on the Internet that I'm bad at.

I don't really see a group like this harming anyone. If it gets people working on games then all the better.

I don't think the "intent" behind such a project would be "sinister", but rather a desire to work in a (possible) like-minded enviroment with (possible) similar points of view.

I'm also intrigued by how 90% of the replies to a thread called "Females, Unite!" are male.

Having said that...

Females making games! Whoo!
Males making games! Whoo!
Sexual-Stereotype games! Whoo!
Non-Sexual Stereotype games! Whoo!

...

GAMES! Whoo!

Beer! Whoo!

Come on, guys - we have to stop the girls from taking over the world!  :P

Erm.. has the original poster even said anything yet?

I'm still waiting for my original question to be answered...

I think the last comment on her post was what riled people mostly, as already debated.

I'm actually a squid posting from my undersea cave. On the Internet, no one knows these things, and usually it makes little difference.

Let's try to keep this on topic, though.

Honest and serious questions: I'm wondering if a group centered around females helping other female adventure game makers is really needed. Would that sort of support and help really differ from the sort that's already available (critics lounge, asking people for help, etc.)? Does it make a difference if the people offering the assistance are female as opposed to male? Most of the people around these forums who are capable of offering advice and assistance with various game elements (graphics, music, etc.) would probably not even consider the sex of the person they're helping, so there's already help available to females. Or am I misunderstanding what the point of this hypothetical group would actually be?

I just can't see what someones' sex has to do anything with the abilities or talents... ??? No idea???

Anyways...

I do know that the females I know have done a magnificent job with the games that they are working on and have done in the past (Kinoko, The Ivy etc...) so I'm fine with that. Plus more games! More games! No need for a verb!

MORE GAMES!

I can't identify who exactly has a problem with an all female team, but I won't try to any further - because having such a problem is pretty pathetic!

I find it funny that it's the guys arguing over whether or not the group should exist.

As for my opinion- sure. Sounds great. Why not? If a group of girls want to get together and make a game, huzzah for them.

Well, I don't know about the other guys, but I was trying to discuss the idea in the interest of fleshing it out better in case whichever girls are interested decide actually to create the group.

You're all acting so immature. Whatever happens it won't really affect out way of life in any way. Especially when all we risk is getting awesome free games.










Also, do transsexuals count?

I don't really see the need for a group of females helping each other and others out. I am female and I never had any problems to find someone to help me if needed. Neither the regular helpers at CL nor at Beginner's Tech or anywhere else on this forum seem to mind at all whether a member is male or female.
Since even I (as a female) don't really get this whole concept, I can totally understand why some of the guys here are confused...

What would be the advantage of an all-girl team wanting to make a great game, compared to just any team wanting to make a great game? Why exclude some wonderful, talented people to contribute to a great game just because they have balls?

You obviously don't like stereotypical female characters as depicted in some games, so my guess is that you might wanna form a team to make a game that's not like that. If that's the case and you have a good idea or want to come up with one and I can contribute anything helpful, no problem. But there are probably quite a number of very talented males that would also like to help out making a game like that. And why shouldn't they?

I don't see any reason to unite, since there is nothing to unite against.

Whoa, that was quite a long post to say "I don't get it!"  ;)

Hmmm...  I have a penis, you have a vagina.  LET'S SEE WHICH ONE MAKES BETTER GAMES!!!!

I'm rooting for vagina.  :P

Can vagina's make games? If so, then go vagina..

Yay girls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjCiXMMhiTc

Quote from: Andail on Wed 27/09/2006 20:48:34
Yay girls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjCiXMMhiTc

All I could focus on was her hair constantly getting in her eye.

Funny thing, I was mostly bothered by the lips, they were like rubber of some kind. like she was wearing a mask. I mean the faces she made...

Quote from: Tuomas on Wed 27/09/2006 21:22:01
...like she was wearing a mask...

Yup, I think it is a Steve Irwin mask.

Yet another thread that has somehow reached four pages that makes me say, "Big deal!" I mean, really, why is it whenever someone on AGS starts a thread that seems just the slightest bit edgy... PEOPLE GO NUTS!

AN ALL FEMALE-TEAM OF AGSERS?!? HOLY CRAP FEMINISIM SEXISM DISCRIMINATION RAH RAH BULLSHIT!

I mean, really, why are people even debating this? Shouldn't you all be watering your gardens/feeding your fish/downloading gigs of hardcore pornography/whatever instead of discussing whether or not there should/shouldn't be a need for an all-girls AGS team? Seriously, this one is a no-brainer.

I guess, some people have this idea that their opinion matters in this instance. They're going, "Goddammit, I'm gonna get on a soapbox about this!" But really, what does it matter? What's going to change in the end?

Sweet FA.

I mean, why can't some people read threads and think, "Hey this doesn't really affect me in any way! I don't really need to post about this because the issue isn't really that important!" I mean for godsakes, what happened in these people's lives that they feel this dire need to express every single thought on issues that don't even concern them?

And if you seriously feel this thread is some bastion of pro-feminism or rebelious anti-discrimination of men, then you need to go down to the local life store and get yourself a life. I will also personally send you a cheque for $14.58 to contribute to the purchase of a life. I believe in doing my duty to make sure people are not wasting their time on stupid things they mistake as important, such as giving their opinion on things that don't warrant an opinion.

You want to send me money? Tuomas Renvall,  Saarenvainionkatu 11 A 5, 33710 Tampere, Finland.... please, I really need that... life...

And thus we run head first into the ol' problem of yelling at people that they have no life because they're offering an opinion on a subject on the internet while yourself offering an opinion on a subject on the internet.

HAHA Good one MrColossal!  :)

haha yes good one Colossal trying to find tiny scrap of hypocrisy in my post -- a scrap which isn't really much of a hypocrisy. it's the ol "hey why are you complaining about the complainers when you're complaining!" They should write that one into the "Handbook of Internet Debate Cliches". And by the same token I could accuse you of offering an opinion on my opinion despite that you're condemning me for offering an opinion on people offering opinions. Wow, you're a hypocrite too!

So, cut the crap. And just read me correctly:

People can offer opinions. Just make them about something worthwhile.

By the way, how does someone "yell" at people through a text-based medium? If dictionary.com isn't lying to me, yelling requires an increase in volume. And I'm pretty sure if you turn the volume knob on your speakers to full throttle, it won't really make much of a difference to my previous post. Perhaps you're automatically assuming aggression on my behalf, when really what I feel is disappointment over a bunch of people who do have potential for intelligent conversation but are wasting their time debating something that they don't really need make a big deal about.

Pfff this troll is probably just another one of these amusing joke forum characters that DGMacphee makes up from time to time

That comment has made this whole thread worthwhile. Seriously.

DG, for somebody who thinks this is really unneccesary, you have the two longest posts on this page alone.

Can we bring up differences in the gaming industry to further rape this topic? Because frankly, it is not strange that 99% of all games (not adventures per se) are by males for males. Males make the games they want to play, and let us face it. Game development is and has been about the geekiest activity on the planet, thus only attracting hardcore geeks amongst the players, which again are generally male. I do know a girl or two, heck I even know women, and their taste in games varied alot. What you say, are not females a generic collection? No, they have different taste! The only generalisation I can come up with is that your average girl tends to dislike button mashing and colleteral damage for the sake of colleteral damage. Then we have fetisches for Sephiroth and the occasional Sims-mania, but that is another subject. The thing is puzzles, whether they be packed in adventure stories or not, seem more attractive than the average shooter. Thus I am confused due to the fact that the amateur adventure scene does not attract even more female gamers - and perhaps it is Moment 22 again - the adventures are made by males for males (whether it be in character design or usage of busty hoe's). Or is it the geek treshold that scare away potential game developers from entering our scene?

I had a girl that came round once and spent an hour by herself playing grand theft auto.

I liked Harvest Moon on the PSone. (PS2 version was a very sloppy port over from the gamecube)

Take that stereotypes!

Stop stealing DG's soapbox, Eric.  You know he's only 3 feet tall without it- and that's after standing on his penis! :>

Seriously though, make the games you want to make.  They'll be good or bad regardless of sex...And for those 15-something kiddies in the audience, they might even be better with a lot of sex!

Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 28/09/2006 19:33:06
They'll be good or bad regardless of sex...And for those 15-something kiddies in the audience, they might even be better with a lot of sex!

I really enjoyed the hidden sex scene in Mind's eye between Childs (That's a name people, not an actual child!) and the evil guy whose name escapes me. They alwasy said you were good with drawing the details, but blimey!

You didn't type 'g0atz' into the parser during that scene, did you?  DID YOU!?

Is THIS (http://members.cox.net/progzmax/spoiler.gif) the 'scene' you're talking about, Matt?  Warning!  Not for everyone!

That's the one! You had to press onscreen buttons in time with the action to get the goat to join in! That was the best part of the game, and so many people missed out on it!

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/manicmatt/goat.png)

Just look at the smile on that goat's portrait.

My girlfriend (shes a member but I wont name her) completed super mario on the snes in about 2 hrs   mighty impressive with all levels done and all routes uncovered with 99 lives

Quote from: Raggit on Thu 28/09/2006 16:28:51
DG, for somebody who thinks this is really unneccesary, you have the two longest posts on this page alone.

And you'll notice I haven't commented once of whether there should be an all-girl AGS team. Mainly because stuff like that doesn't worry me. But my original post was about how it surprises me that some AGSers seem to get their panties in a twist over things that are pretty minor. Like this thread. So I haven't really commented about the actual topic. Why? Because I think it doesn't really need much discussion. If I were to comment, I'd say: "All-girls AGS team? Fuck it, let 'em do whatever they want." But I didn't really need to write that mainly because things like that shouldn't need to be said. People should be able to do whatever the hell the want in terms of starting up teams. I just don't understand why there was so much criticism and debate over the issue. Hence, my question, why are people even bothering?

As for my two longest threads on "this page", meh, keep in mind I haven't said anything until page 4. And keep in mind I hardly post on AGS much anymore. And keep in mind I still think the topic is a big waste of time.

Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 28/09/2006 19:33:06
Stop stealing DG's soapbox, Eric.  You know he's only 3 feet tall without it- and that's after standing on his penis! :>

hey guys did you know apparently i am short and have a small penis

oh dear i feel inadequate and less of a man because of my short stature and tiny penis so i had better buy that penis pump i have been wanting since christmas

good work ProgZmax you called me out using a joke that hardly makes much sense but is somehow trying to attack my manhood merely because i am saying "hey you guys are arguing about something stupid and you are a bunch of stupids"

BRAVO BRAVO YOU WIN THE DIPSHIT AWARD FOR 2006 AND THE CROWD GOES WILD

Quote from: DGMacphee on Fri 29/09/2006 02:57:53
Hence, my question, why are people even bothering?

Because the thread exists. Someone creates a thread. Others post in it with their opinions because they are interested. That's how it works.

Honestly, DGMacphee. This is what's happening:

Post Starter: I have an idea. (description of PS's idea)
Someone Else: Hmmm... Well, have you thought about (SE's opinion)?
DGMacphee: BLAAARGHHH!!!!11 Why are you wasting your time in this thread!? OMGZ!1

Slightly exaggerated, yes, but this is essentially what your posts in this thread look like to me.

That'll sure make a change from you winning every year, won't it--especially when you can't seem to tell when someone is joking.  Lighten up.

Erenan, hm, with the only exception that this thread is like 5 pages long and full of people who don't normally bother to argue about things.
I agree with DG that this issue has resulted in disproportional amounts of polemics and strange reactions. People seem to take this gender issue extremely seriously, that's quite evident.
Unlike DG, though, I find it pretty interesting and sort of nice that people debate it.

QuoteBy the way, how does someone "yell" at people through a text-based medium? If dictionary.com isn't lying to me, yelling requires an increase in volume.

What you're doing in this thread is the equivalent of bad stand-up comedy. Why bad? Because you're not funny, I don't know if people tell you this a lot or not, could be just me. So you seem very excited and loud for no particular reason, and no punch-line is forthcoming.

I sincerily don't know why you write in that tone, whatever you have to say can be said with about 99% less overenthusiasm and lame jokes. You don't get points of being funny on a thread like this, but you do get negative points for trying and failing. Just say what you have to say without mocking anyone and maybe you'll be treated better by your peers, with whom you're supposed to be discussing on an even level about an subject you find interesting.

For instance, I agree with your post: I don't think this is an issue that's interesting or to be debated, as I stated. However I completely disagree with your bullshit attitude and I get this reactionary impulse to attack your position just because you're behaving thusly. You're hurting your (/our) point of view. How? By being an asshole on the internet, in the WRONG PLACE and doing it BADLY. Sorry, DG, that's how I see it.

Now quote my post all over and make fun of me.

HAHA Good one MrColossal Helm!  :)

Humour, especially in text form can be debatable whether is funny or not.

Now onto the subject I can remember myself, not long ago, posting a simmilar (and rather much ruder) post like DG aobut pluto. I just didn't see at that time, what is there to discuss, or even more what is there to feel pity about a (former) planet.

Same here. I don't see anything special about the 1st (and the rest actually) posts, really.

Anyways... Attack is the best defense and is the case here with DG (excpet his first post).

Helm, you pwn in every single debate.   :D

So...females making games, eh?

...

The bitches.

Let them try it there is no stopping them
But i have made a prediction

Girls Get together
Girls come up with idea
Girls start writing game and drawing graphics
Girls begin arguing about the shade of lipstick the main character is wearing
All hell breaks loose

Saucer of milk at table 2 please
Handbags at 10 paces
and all the guys request video links to mudfighting events

Quote from: ManicMatt on Mon 25/09/2006 11:00:03

Seriously though, why do you want a team of females only?

I thought I already explained my thinking in my first / the initial and original post.
Sigh.
And even though you were being sarcastic , you're right , females have...will...and do usually make games that males usually haven't / won't and will not do ( or in some cases not do correctly for a variety of reasons )
If I'm being insulting , I don't really mean to and I'm not wanting any gender wars or anything , like I stated already , I just think it'd be cool to have at least one all female gaming team here. ( or anywhere for that matter...even though they never made games it's a shame CLAMP broke up....they were an all female team who made Anime and Manga btw if you've never "heard" of them for some reason )

Geeze , I leave for a while and this thread becomes popular in a way I didn't intend.
It's really upsetting to come back and see that what you thought was a really good idea shot to hell like this.

I now predict that if I wanted to chat about Germans forming a game making team of only German gamers / creators ( assumming there's not one somewhere out there already ) , alot of people here would take THAT the wrong way too. >_<

Sorry for any and all bad spelling and THANK YOU to all the people that got it.
*hugs the people that got it and gives them chocolate chip cookies or whatever snack they prefer*

Threads like this always mutate in strange and horrible ways.

btw, I still think there's nothing wrong with the idea.

Quote from: vict0r on Mon 25/09/2006 14:59:02

Seriously, though.. I actually find this very discriminating... It would probably be an uproar if a male member would make a similar thread.. "Males, Unite!"

I couldn't think up a better title at the time , I apoligize for any badly chosen wording.
Thanks for not being overly bitey about it though.

Also , the last part in the initial post was a joke. NOTE THE SMILEY / EMOTICON.
( aka the "winking and poking out tongue" face )

"What would be the advantage of an all-girl team wanting to make a great game, compared to just any team wanting to make a great game? Why exclude some wonderful, talented people to contribute to a great game just because they have balls?"
I have nothing against mixed groups , I have nothing against all male groups ( unless of course they were to make mostly stereotypical macho crap with stereotypical female characters. That's another thing entirely. ) , as far as I can tell we females are outnumbered here ( bummer ) so , ( geeze how many times am I going to have to tell people this? lol ) , I mainly started this thread in the interest of meeting other female users ( some people...regardless of gender.....they check forums more often than boards or email more often than forums...blah blah blah ) and hoping the "females unite" thing would catch their eye and would help get more females interested in AGS / making games. As others have correctly guessed , I'm not being anti-male , I'm just being pro female. I am just as grateful to any male who's interested in my limited talent as I would to be a female. The possible "advantage" of an all female group would be more games that females would actually be interested in playing. I love quite a few of the games that have already been made...To be honest , with the exception of "Spooks!" and a few other games , I don't remember what games I like that just happened to have been made by a female....so I think it'd be really cool and wonderful if we dould have more females into AGS since it seems that we don't have many female members. I'm sorry if I'm getting a little bitey about this....

The other stuff I can kinda laugh off , but : "Of course the discussion has left and went ot places that I find interesting, but the initial post, is a little retarded to me."
Ok , that one hurt.
I don't see what's wrong with my so-called "Let's get all the girls together and make games...Yay!" attitude and while I do get a little annoyed with some other comments , 
I do find a "retarded" comment uncalled for.

Some ideas I haven't seen really used much or at all...yet ;
to be considered for game creators ( and stuff I already plan on working on myself ) :
More games that both genders can enjoy ( I know there's quite a few that are like that already...such as The Digital Spell....5 Days A Stranger...GRR! Barely Sane...ect.  )
Ren'ai ( romance aka dating game , visual novel , dating simulation , ect. )
Child / creature raising ( ala Princess Maker ...Oddballz....Creatures... ) games
Female knight ( I am currently enjoying playing as a female knight on The Elder Scrolls : Oblivion but it'd be awesome if there was an AGS game about a female knight too )
I've got another female knight character over at Adventure Quest RPG
More games like Spooks! , where you can play as a ghost / ghoul. ( boy or girl , doesn't matter...in fact I'd like to see at least one game where you can play as a male ghost and since you get to play as a female ghost in Spooks! I wouldn't mind at all if another female ghost story wasn't made...it would just be cool to see another one... )

So , how many guys here are interested in creature / child raising simulations and romance novels? lol

I also love "God gaming" / "survival" , anything where I can control little people to build me something or go hack down trees for materials , ect. makes me happy.
I forget what kind of simulations those are called...um , world building , I guess.
Games like Pharaoh ( which I often tend to misspell ) , The Sims , Black & White ,
Dark Cloud , ect.
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/pharaoh.htm
http://www.lionhead.com/bw2/
I like anything where I can "build" stuff ( or have my people build it for me lol )
and control a creature / person...
I love to customize things.

Sorry if I'm missing anything , I am looking through stuff...

"Age of Discovery" games ( ie Skies of Arcadia / Legends of Arcadia )

Guys aren't the only one that are interested in pixel nudity / hentai games...so - Some naughty games for females ( Even though "Crave" is mainly geared towards males...so far I'm enjoying it too. It's not everyday I get to play as a naughty stick guy with an awesome power. lol I enjoyed what little I've played of LSL too )

Pirates. I know it's been done over and over....

Asian themed games
( Mahjong , Youkai related games , Go , an Asian RPG , Ninjas , Kaiju , ect. )
Youkai / Obakemono / Yokai - spirits demons monsters otherworldly creatures
http://www.youkaimura.org/
Kaiju - huge monsters or even huge robots and such but mostly monsters...you know , like Godzilla? lol

A queen on a quest or a peasant girl on a quest to become queen or learns that she is destined to be queen...something like that. PLEASE , NO MORE PRINCESSES! lol

Short game in which you are a Beholder. LOL

A "mom" game that's actually interesting. ( in other words not a stereotypical female mother figure but one who can actually kick butt just as well as she cooks dinner or having a more realistic mom who may not be a great cook but is a lawyer or doctor or something like that )

Instead of mostly fighting monsters ( although you can still fight certain monsters ) , a game that is more about making friends with monsters than fighting them.

A knight that can also cast spells , an honest thief , various hybrids and mixed character / personality types.
( I get so tired of the "you can be a knight but if you choose to be a knight you won't be able to use magic" crap )

Play as a centaur , dark elf , vampire , dragon , or gorgon or something else , ect.

I think it'd be hilarious if there were a game about a lazy female knight who "saves" a guy from a dragon ( or better yet...he's being held captive by a troll! I love dragons so I often feel guilty about enjoying games in which I have to kill a dragon along with a bunch of other creatures....The traditional "tall ugly evil troll" however ....Let's hurt 'em. lol )

As you can probably tell I'm mostly into fantasy and adventure type stuff but I will give sports and "stupid but kinda fun" games like Saints Row a chance too.

I love Chess ( especially Battle Chess ) and Mahjohng

Hmm , I can't remember the names of them but some "non-games" games were really cool....being stuck in one area...having to do a certain task over and over....( a comment on life ) and surrealism....I love stuff like that.

Ok , changed the title.
Now to work on AGS , Ren'py / Re'nai , and ADRIFT stuff!
*sighs as she stares at her mostly empty folders*

Other ideas -
Survival Kids , The Oregon Trail , ect. - like games.

I want to apolpgize... My previous posts were useless etc.! :)
I actually fint it great that more females are coming to the community!
I was probably just tired and grumphy when posting, so I really do apologize! :) I suggest that the mods remove all unnessesary posts, and let this thread get the purpose it was actually meant to have!

Again, sorry..

Quote from: Queen Kara on Fri 29/09/2006 23:53:43
More games like Spooks! , where you can play as a ghost / ghoul. ( boy or girl , doesn't matter...in fact I'd like to see at least one game where you can play as a male ghost and since you get to play as a female ghost in Spooks! I wouldn't mind at all if another female ghost story wasn't made...it would just be cool to see another one... )

Uncanny. (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/The_Ivy/samplorcopy.jpg)

Spoiler

Heh, just a work in progress, but still. :)

[close]

My few posts in this thread were very joking, but all mirth aside, I'd like to play a game where I couldn't tell whether it was made by a either a male OR a female.  Something with a deep story that
appeals to humanity in general, not select groups.   

Couldn't that be done with enough work, time, and thought?

Female, Male, Shemale...Queen Kara did nothing wrong. I don't care who makes the games. I am no sexist, so i could care less. More power to the Queen.

Would anybody freak out if DOOM were made by girls?? Probably not.

Quote from: Helm on Fri 29/09/2006 11:41:49
Now quote my post all over and make fun of me.

No, I'm not going to make fun of you. I agree... it's all bad stand-up comedy. Cause let's face it I do all of my stand-up comedy work on the AGS forums. Like I formulate all of my jokes here and come here with the express purpose of devising clever punchlines and delivering razor sharp wit all over the place. In fact, AGS forums are the very bane of my stand-up comedy existence. And it nice to get comedy feedback from people like you. I will strive to be more funny in more threads that contain pointless over-reactions about discrimination and sexism. I'm so stoopid, stoopid, stoopid. And here I was ready to send my sitcom idea about a man who marries a llama to a television network and enjoy the high-life that all sitcom writers enjoy.

No, forget about making fun of you, Helm. I'll be serious: who are you trying to kid? If your reaction for me saying, "This conversation: full of retardedness!" is "Hey you're not funny!", then you've just proven my point. That's a bullshit argument to my point, thus fuelling the retarded nature of this thread.

I mean, seriously, you think I'M other-enthusiastic? Have you read some of the reactions in this thread to Queen Kara's original post? How it's DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MEN? How it's SEXISM? You expect me to debate on an even level to that? Are you fucking kidding me?

My point is proven. You, along with many others, take things WAY too seriously. It's my whole reason for posting in this thread -- Queen Kara posts something about an all-girls AGS team, and suddenly everyone gets super-serious about the social implication and discrimination and blah blah blah.

Now, I'm going to do something special. I am going to forgo the $14.58 cheque and instead provide you with a can of insect spray...

(http://www.giftmela.com/images/583_thumb.jpg)

Use it to kill the bug up your ass.

(ha ha did you see waht i did thar, helm? see, the line above was the punchline thus ending the joke! does my comedy appease you now, oh great lord of the jokes?)

Now, quit the whole "Stop mocking people or else I will get the impulse to attack! Rar rar you fail at being funny and at life! Bullshit attitude and blah blah blah!" If you've really got an impulse to attack or have any problem that's specifically got to do with me, then PM me about it and we can discuss it in private.

And on a related note, I find it very sanctimonious of you to criticise me about my "bullshit attitude" and "being an asshole on the internet" in regards to respect for my peers. I remember many times you've struck down others with your "bullshit attitude". Like a few years ago when you went apeshit at Yufster, starting a thread to verbally smack her down. And although you were acting like an asshole to her, I still defended you on it because I thought you had a valid enough point regardless of your attitude. And Yufster was pretty cool about your whole rant against her too.

Quote from: Sinsin on Fri 29/09/2006 23:39:33
Girls Get together
Girls come up with idea
Girls start writing game and drawing graphics
Girls begin arguing about the shade of lipstick the main character is wearing
All hell breaks loose

Nice stereotype there.  ::) Personnally, girls like that annoy me. That's why I'm on here all the time, attempting to make some decent games. Boo lipstick. However, I wouldn't mind working with girls on a game. Just maybe not an all-girls team. Having another female on any such team could bring out some new sub-genres of adventure gaming.

HAHA Good one MrColossal Helm DGMacphee!  :)

Quote from: DGMacphee
quote]

That's a bullshit argument to my point, thus fuelling the retarded nature of this thread.

Quote

DG, just because you use that in response to everything everybody tries to say, doesn't mean you're right.

Now before you accuse me of bullshitting here, let me say that I don't give two craps either way about an all-girl AGS team.  If any men here have a problem, they can start their own all-boy AGS team. 

I think there were some good points in your original post, but they were rather hard to find beneath all the sarcasm.  Perhaps toning back on the sarcasm would be helpful.  Then people would see your points more clearly without taking it so personally.

I like how helm has a bug up his ass but you seriously can't take jokes i.e. Progz's post. "But they aren't jokes, they're stupid stupid dumb whatever.." fine whatever... Just don't apologize to him in the thread you insulted him in! That might mean you'd have to lighten up and not take things so seriously which... is exactly what you're accusing people in this original thread of doing! Oh my!

If you'll look back, by the time you entered this thread all the hooplah was over.

I look forward to your attack.

Quote from: Queen KaraSo , how many guys here are interested in creature / child raising simulations and romance novels? lol

Err, isn't it a little stereotypical of you to think that this is what females are generally interested in?
I don't like romance novels. And I'm not really into simulations and I honestly hate "world/creature building" games.
On the other hand, I enjoyed a lot of AGS games and am looking forward to dozens of others that are not yet released (including The Forgotten Element btw). And yet I'm female...
I think it all comes down to taste and not really to gender in the end.

But apart from all that, you seem to have loads of good ideas for potentially great games. Why don't you just settle for one and start working on it? I personally love your idea of having a female knight as main character.
So, GO QUEEN KARA AND MAKE A GREAT GAME!!!
And if you need any help, just ask and I'm pretty sure you'll find it somewhere on these forums.

QuoteSo , how many guys here are interested in creature / child raising simulations and romance novels? lol

As Venus said, it's not actually a matter of gender. Some might consider it weird but I actually do like romantic movies for example. Haven't really read any romance novels, but I have a male friend who writes romance poetry. So this surely has nothing to do with gender.

Aside from the Helm v MrColossal v DG Macphee personal shitefest, and the smartypants joking, in which I too, I'm sad to say, have played a small part, I think the confusion in this thread is based on a mass failure to grasp the original point made in the first post.

Not that a game made by a team of female designers would be better than one made by male designers (to which a lot of replies seem to have been targeted), but that it would be different.

D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T.

And if the gobshites who play the old "What about a game made by males?! Huh?!" reverse-sexism card, a card almost as useless as the "I refuse to acknowledge that men and women might be different!" one, could just reel in the Salmon of Stupidity dangling on the end of their mental fishing rods, then maybe we could talk about the subject without embarassing ourselves.

Quote from: Raggit on Sat 30/09/2006 03:14:36
My few posts in this thread were very joking, but all mirth aside, I'd like to play a game where I couldn't tell whether it was made by a either a male OR a female.  Something with a deep story that
appeals to humanity in general, not select groups.   

Couldn't that be done with enough work, time, and thought?

I agree but I also think there should be more games geared towards females ( not like the goofy commercial crap although I am ashamed to admit I sometimes enjoy those games too except of course for the overuse of Pink and the idea that we'd only be interested in ultra girly games about shopping and hairstyles...lol ) because , like I stated , there just aren't enough games about queens or female knights and stuff and way too many games about male knights and princesses. ( no offense meant to anyone who's made a game like that in fact I loved that knight and squire game even though it kinda annoyed me at the same time it was funny too...lazy lazy stupid knight doesn't deserve to be a knight...lol )

Quote from: Venus on Sat 30/09/2006 19:10:59

Quote from: Queen KaraSo , how many guys here are interested in creature / child raising simulations and romance novels? lol

Err, isn't it a little stereotypical of you to think that this is what females are generally interested in?

Well , it seems to me that the majority of people who are interested in such games are male ( if we're talking about hentai / ren'ai games for guys or whatever ) or female ( if we're talking about a game where you actually have to be romantic )  , although I don't mean anything in a bad way ,  I'm quickly learning from everybody here about various things....like how I word certain ideas. lol
That's why I asked how many guys here would actually be interested in creature / child raising and romance games. I didn't know.
*blush*
Guys ( and the girls that have stood up for the guys...bravo ) , I'm sorry for any stereotyping on my part. You know that since I hate it myself , I wouldn't want anybody to think such things about me , right?
I know I could be , have been , am , and will probably wrong about some things.

"Not that a game made by a team of female designers would be better than one made by male designers (to which a lot of replies seem to have been targeted), but that it would be different.

D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T."

EXACTLY! Thank you. I may not be a great wordsmith all the time but points like that are what I'm trying to make here.
I love different.
Different is good.
( unless of course it's truely bad....like wearing ugly clothes to a formal gathering...lol )

The other day I fell down the stairs ( I only had a few scrapes , a bruised ego , some pain and shakiness for awhile...the scrapes are still there to remind me to be careful again but of course the pain and all that is gone ) and then I was housesitting as a favor to my brother who was supposed to be housesitting for my mom and stepdad but then he remembered he had something else to do , heh , that and my out of touchness with AGS things had / has kept me from checking on forums and stuff. I forgot and I'm sorry.
My website is veeeerrrrry oooold.
So apoligies for any missing / broken links and stupid crap like that that you may come across while visiting if you're bored enough to visit. lol
Thanks to a few people bringing it up , I promise there will be a new section up soon dealing with the projects I have in mind for AGS and other game related stuff. Since it will be new though don't expect too much but please try not to think "oh it's not going to have much so it's not going to be worth visiting" either...you may be surprised. I'm very good sometimes about finishing things.

Should you decide to visit , thank you.

Been playing The Elder Scrolls : Oblivion alot lately.

The falling down the stairs thing....man , it was funny and scary at the same time.
Life is so weird. lol
Sometimes I get so focused on something though that I kinda neglect my own safety and that's what happened...I was wanting to talk to my brother about the housesitting thing , and thought he was upstairs then from his talking back to me and seeing him downstairs I realized he was downstairs , I started to come down the stairs and at some point that's when I fell down. He says it's probably because I was on the edge of the step , trying to turn around or whatever , and then forgetting I was on the edge and turning my foot the wrong way ( or something like that ) that caused me to fall.  *blush*
Of course , mundane things such as taking care of dishs and laundry get in the way of things too.
I haven't drawn much of anything in a long time....for various reasons.
But I do still work on things from time to time.
Ok , so now everybody knows the funny / scary thing that happened to me the other day and other stuff and why I've been out of the loop for so long. lol

Queen Kara, 

By saying that there ought to be more games geared towards females, do you mean that there should just be more female playercharacters, or geared towards females in story and gameplay?  Or both?

I myself would love to find more serious adventure games based on romance and love.  I don't believe that things dealing with emotions and romance are just for girls and things with explosions and action are just for boys.  If it's fun or interesting, I'll play it. 

I agree that what commercial games there are for females, most are crap, with their little pink boxes, and stuff.

Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 30/09/2006 16:51:29
I like how helm has a bug up his ass but you seriously can't take jokes i.e. Progz's post.

But I did take his joke, and I retaliated to ProgZ in non-serious manner. If I took his comments seriously, I'd say "What?? How fucking dare you say that about my penis! You have wronged me, sir, and I challenge you to a duel! etc etc" If you actually think my response was because he wounded my ego by talking about my penis and I took it to heart, then please dunk your head in a barrel of water until you realise "hey i'm a goof whoops!".

It's just some barb-trading. Get over it.

And in actual fact, I appreciated he at least made a joke, even though it was a little hamfisted. But at least he wasn't serious, unlike you for example.

But hey, check out SSH's response to me if you want a good joke at my expense. And my response to him was a sign of praise. Way better than a penis joke.

QuoteJust don't apologize to him in the thread you insulted him in! That might mean you'd have to lighten up and not take things so seriously which... is exactly what you're accusing people in this original thread of doing! Oh my!

Another one of Colossal's "hey you're doing what you're accusing others of doing" Only flaw in your argument is I'm not taking this thread seriously. Try and find some actual hypocrisy for a change instead using of your super-duper ninja debate tactics.

Oh my, indeed, you ass!

QuoteIf you'll look back, by the time you entered this thread all the hooplah was over.

Great. But I wasn't joining on that hooplah. I was commented about the hooplah. And I thought the hooplah was pretty dumb because it was over NOTHING. Thought it needed to be said.

QuoteI look forward to your attack.

You're looking forward to my attack? What is this? High school? Are we to meet at the flag pole after lunch and duke it out to see who gets to take Judy out to Good-Time Burger tonight? Are you freaking kidding me?

I actually have this picture in my mind of you with your dukes raised to the computer screen going, "I'm ready for you DG! Just try something, man! It is soooo ON, motherfucker!" Also, in the same mental image, you're wearing Napoleon's hat. Do you own such a hat? Or do I just have a vivid imagination?

Quote from: Raggit on Sun 01/10/2006 01:41:25
Queen Kara, 

By saying that there ought to be more games geared towards females, do you mean that there should just be more female player characters, or geared towards females in story and gameplay?  Or both?

I myself would love to find more serious adventure games based on romance and love.  I don't believe that things dealing with emotions and romance are just for girls and things with explosions and action are just for boys.  If it's fun or interesting, I'll play it. 

Both.  I agree with you that stuff isn't always just for one gender it just seems alot of times that there's a definate divide....which is sad. I always find it cool when a guy admits that he likes romantic movies or raising games and stuff like that and when a woman admits that she loves blowing stuff up and running over people with her car in games. Hehehe.

Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 25/09/2006 19:20:50
I just can't see what someones' sex has to do anything with the abilities or talents... ??? No idea???

Anyways...

I do know that the females I know have done a magnificent job with the games that they are working on and have done in the past (Kinoko, The Ivy etc...) so I'm fine with that. Plus more games! More games! No need for a verb!

MORE GAMES!

Hear Hear.........
Well siad.

Regarding target audiences...

Personally, I view the design and creation of games to be an art form, and as an artist I don't feel that I'm really operating with an target audience at all, or at least, not intentionally. If I draw a picture, it's not aimed at anyone. If I write a progressive jazz metal opera, it's not aimed at anyone. If I create an adventure game about a shrunken golfer, it's not aimed at anyone. It is what it is, it says what it says, it does what it does, and anyone who plays it can enjoy it or not as they see fit. And that's pretty much the way it ought to work, at least insofar as this is art that we're creating.

On that note, I suppose I have to acknowledge that some works of art really are intended for a specific audience, even specific by gender, such as many movies, and I also suppose that's probably fine. So a target audience isn't inherently absent from game design either.

But on that note, why have a target audience at all? In terms of commercial games, game developers and producers are usually interested in making a profit. As independent developers who primarily create games without profit in mind, we are totally free to concern ourselves with other things, such as artistry.

Although after all of this, I should point out that I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from anything. I'm trying to encourage discussion, and that's the honest truth.

As an artist as well,  I sometimes do think of the target audience. I don't believe that an artist just does what (s)he wants and don't care about anything, because "art is calling", or something.

I write different stuff for my PhD, for the theatrical plays, for the documentaries and for computer games. And it's not only the medium I'm working on that precludes me from using
the same technics to everything. Different purposes, different audiences. You have to take it to account. But not become a slave of it!

That said, I have been pondering if a woman would do a different job that me, or Erenan, or Geoffkhan, or anyone here, wirtting music. From the examples I've seen, the answer is no she wouldn't...

But the same does not seem to apply in art, or story making.

I can see differences between the art of loominous, or Andail (for example), and Kinoko and Mash potato on the other. And I do have to put it down, also on the genre difference.

Story wise again I see differences and no matter how different and masculin Zale was, still I think that it is the womans' touch that made it the amazing game it is!

Scripting, all is rubbish. The Ivy asked for hlep from Vince (a male!!!! :O).

My point: I don't care, but I do see a reasoning behind wanting to do something 'all women', although not all game related areas, need to be 'only women'.

I agree with you, Nikolas, but you're emphasizing my point. Yes, different purposes and different audiences exist, and yes, we need to take that into account. But my point here is that in creating AGS games we're NOT bound to making games for anyone in particular. By and large, we're not doing this on commission. By and large, we're not doing this for a grade or as work for a degree. Most of us do this because we enjoy it, because we are drawn to it, because we love it. There's a lot of freedom in that.

Yes indeed... I'm not disagreeing with you! :) Just stressing your points and adding a couple of mine :D

Quote from: Queen Kara on Sun 01/10/2006 04:03:26
I always find it cool when a guy admits that he likes romantic movies or raising games and stuff like that..

Oh, okay.

I loved Harvest Moon on the PSone! Yesterday I bought kingdom Hearts 2. I used to play the
sims on the PS2 all the time. There we go!

I also own a video called "Martha, meet Frank, Daniel & Laurance", which is a romantic comedy!

(I also have Highlander, chop their heads off!! Just needed to create a balance.)

Quote from: Nikolas on Sun 01/10/2006 08:30:14
Scripting, all is rubbish. The Ivy asked for hlep from Vince (a male!!!! :O).

Actually, Vince emailed The Ivy to offer help before she even knew who Vince was... but whatever.

I love Kingdom Hearts but it has many elements to it ( not just the cute relationships ) so I don't see how it's got anything to do with this discussion. ( not meaning that in a bitey way...just a little confused lol )

Yeah , I know it's probably silly of me to think that way but I do think of games like Harvest Moon being something that girls are probably more interested in than guys since you take on the role of farmer. Even though there's been two sides of the series ( the main one which you have to play as a male farmer ) , even as you're playing a male farmer you feel like not many guys would be interested in the game.

I hate coding but it's nice when you get it right or get help.
Back when I was into trying to make dreams for Furcadia , the only person I really knew that could help me with stuff was male. Over time I figured out some stuff on my own but I need to try again sometime to make sure I know what I'm doing. I need to relearn how to do the actual coding part though since it's been so long. Sigh.
I'm really grateful for any help but at the same time I feel bad when I can't figure things out on my own....

"But on that note, why have a target audience at all?"
I understand your points to a certain degree but at the same time I stress again that there don't seem to be many games here that are geared towards females. Sure , we can choose not to have target audiences and just make whatever we want but then we may lose some things that way. If you're always trying to make games that can be enjoyed by both genders , then you have nothing to worry about. If you usually make games that even you think only guys / girls would be interested in , you should try and mix it up a little. Even though I intend on making alot of games female-centered , I also intend to mix it up alot.  Wether you're making a game or creating a piece of art for a website , often times you do have to think about a target audience when you're not creating the piece solely / mainly for yourself rather than for others. If you make a game for yourself , then you only have yourself to please. If you make a game that you're wanting others to play , then you have to think about whether or not they'll like this or that. Even if we're not doing this for money , we're still doing it for somebody to check out our work and get their opinions on what's good and what isn't , right? Even if we're making a game just to get something out there , depending on what the game is about , whether consciously ( ack spelling...ok fixed...lol ) or not....there's still a specific audience in mind....

Oh.. I just happen to know more girls who are excited about kingdom hearts than guys!

Harvest moon has an addictive quality to it, where your mind is always at work, thinking about your next plan of action.

Really? That's a little surprising considering all the action sequences in KH.

Then again , it is "cutesy" in alot of ways
and there's lots of things that can be imagined about it
( such as thinking of certain characters as being more than friends even though they don't really show the relationships that way in the games....lol )
so I can see how it would more of a girl thing.

So, er..
Will you be calling the group FAGS?
I'm sure some folk already have the monopoly on that.

Note:

I'm a dude.  I loved Harvest Moon on the SNES.  My favorite movie is a romantic comedy.  My favorite color is pink.

I also like breasts and Chuck Norris.

That said, if this does take off, then I wish y'all luck.

You sound like an emo.

@Queen Kara: Since what it appears you're really interested in is games of a certain nature, may I suggest that if you form a group, you may do well to do it with that specifically in mind rather than making it about girls making games for other girls? I think it would be most effective if you and a few others work on developing some ideas for something like a mission statement or a set of guidelines dealing with what characteristics you want present in the games produced. And then form the group around that manifesto. Then it would be about producing a certain kind of game, rather than about certain kinds of people.

I don't think Queen Kara ever stated that she wanted to form an all female group to specifically make games for a female audience, but rather to make games from within an enviroment where views and ideas can be discussed from similar standpoints.

And as supposedly un-pc as lumping all females into one "point of view" dictated simply by their sex is,  chances are a female creator will see a character in a different light than a male creator would.

Would Gabriel Knight have differed if conceived by a man? Would gamers be questioning his sexuality? Would he have been so "fey"? Or would he play more like George Stobart or Indiana Jones? Did the fact that he was conceived by a woman actually make a difference at all?

Answers on a postcard...

As for Gabriel Knight, I have no idea as I've never actually played any GK games.

As for the other stuff... Okay. I think my suggestion still stands, however (or even in agreement with what you said), and I'd be very interested to see what sorts of ideas would come out of it.

Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sun 01/10/2006 16:14:43
So, er..
Will you be calling the group FAGS?

LOL , nope.

QuoteI also like breasts and Chuck Norris.

As long as you aren't interested in Chuck Norris' breasts.  I'm sure he'd deliver you a roundhouse kick for such thoughts.

Quote from: Venus on Sat 30/09/2006 19:10:59

Quote from: Queen KaraSo , how many guys here are interested in creature / child raising simulations and romance novels? lol

Err, isn't it a little stereotypical of you to think that this is what females are generally interested in?

Yeah, this "male-oriented" / "female-oriented" thinking about games winds me up a little. I can where these sorts of things come from, and perhaps statistically it is true. However, some of my favourite games are Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, Princess Maker, etc. Some of my least favourite games are FPS's, and gratuitous violence irks me in games. I like a lot of romantic stories - some of my favourites are Brief Encounter and the romantic portion of King Kong. Does this make me a girl?

I'm less concerned about whether the protagonist is male, female, dwarf, elf, or elephant. As long as the characters fit the roles and are in their own way "likeable" (even if they are an anti-hero they should still be likeable in some way) then I'm sold.

Cap'n Binky

What we may be missing is this:

AGS forums, and other forums as well are made for people involded in games devleop,ment, Which makes them a tad older.

Gamers might as well be 13,14, or 17... The ofrums have a "theoriticall" limit of 16 years of age. Certain membemr (include Vluje) have proven that this forum is the best forums ever and that 14 years of age are enough for someone to be matture. Yet laws are laws (and actually this rule does not apply for reasoning as much as actual laws...)

binky: You're far more than 20, so juding from your perspecitve, although respectable as hell (and indeed I know that you buy all games, since I know you perosnally... we work together ;D), still a gamer might be 13-14-15... I've come (today actually) to realise that judging frfom a perosnal view (I do it so evrybody does it kinda thing), is wrongly oriented. Of course you can make judgements from yourslef, this is where you start, but in the end (in music) producers do exactly that. Make sure that your music has a connectino with the outer world. Same with games. A publishing company (no matter how evil) will do exaclty thatg. Make sure it will sell.

You're view is acceptable an honoured. Again I have to stress that.

But this post is going for Venus/Queen Kara: Your needs are not indentical to the people needs. If you want something done "for the ocmmunity" or fore "female (which lacks indeed)" make a true researh. This is not enough.

I'm heavily dissapointed at this time from things happening in my life. While it is personal (which I will leak in a thread later on, or tomorrow), still  I have come to understoof the reason for marekting, money and everything else. I'm heavily dissapointed...

Queen Kara: In my mind: everything can be whatever, but  the story and the moral of the sotry,. Make a story, find the people to work with, and I can vouche you that if not me (who am busy right now), music will come and will be amazing (since Ideal with music). What I'm saying is to write the music and get opn with it, don't waste any more time here! Make it happen! Only you can do it! :)

Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 02/10/2006 11:16:41
Gamers might as well be 13,14, or 17... The ofrums have a "theoriticall" limit of 16 years of age. Certain membemr (include Vluje) have proven that this forum is the best forums ever and that 14 years of age are enough for someone to be matture. Yet laws are laws (and actually this rule does not apply for reasoning as much as actual laws...)

True, but I read somewhere that the average age for a gamer nowadays is around 26.

Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 02/10/2006 11:16:41
A publishing company (no matter how evil) will do exaclty thatg. Make sure it will sell.

Again, this is true. However, if you look at successful games which appeal to women - things like the Sims to pick a whopper - the thing that made them hugely successful was not that they appeal to women, but that they appeal to both men and women (and boys and girls for that matter). While games designed to appeal to girls do exist, no game exists that only appeals to girls and vice versa. For even if the game is pink and frilly, if there is a good game at the heart of it then some blokes will play it. So what I'm really saying is kinda what everyone else is saying... the only thing that's relevant is whether the game is any good. And as such, I will play a pink and frilly horsey game if it's good... and by the same token I would have thought that a similar girl would play a game with a character with massive breasts (er, for example) if the game is good. Because at the end of the day, aside from the gameplay everything else is just cosmetics.

Of course, I have previously stated that I would get turned off by obscene violence so there are limits... but if the game was really that good I would have to question why have it so extreme?

er... wandered a bit off topic there. ;D

Cap'n Binky

Quoteno game exists that only appeals to girls and vice versa

You mean there are guys that enjoy those silly Barbie NES games? :\

Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 03/10/2006 00:01:34
You mean there are guys that enjoy those silly Barbie NES games? :\

The pussies! Now this game ROCKS! I LOVE IT!

(http://www.gamepricezone.com/images/covers/front/50580.jpg)

Damn, where can i find that game. I WANT IT NOW!!  :)

Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 03/10/2006 00:01:34
You mean there are guys that enjoy those silly Barbie NES games? :\

;D I was talking within the context of good games. And those old Barbie games were a bit of a non-game really. There have been more recent Barbie games which are actually rather good fun. Er...

It is kind of generic to assume that guys don't have an interest in the dynamics of human relationships. Hell, I even started on a game that worked upon the strained relationship inbetween the protagonists, but let it drop due to that it become painfully obvious that the viewpoint was male. Women are still a mystery to me. Well still and still, I have faith that I once will completely relate to a woman and not resort to being middle age and refer to my misses as "the ol' ball and chain." That being said, the main issue is that even how much I'd want to, I will probably never make a proper female character, but rather a depiction of a female character through the eyes of a male. How many of you guys can honestly say that your female characters are as alive as your males?

Oh, and Harvest Moon is among the greatest game ever made. The greatest game is Beyond and Evil, and I feel no shame in telling you this again.. and again.. and again..

Quote from: 2ma2 on Tue 03/10/2006 13:50:29
Women are still a mystery to me.

And still you were engaged to a girl (if I remember correctly) when you were like 17...that tells something.

QuoteHow many of you guys can honestly say that your female characters are as alive as your males?

Why is this 'wrong' suddenly? I am not interested in a phone drawn realistically, I am interested in a phone drawn as an artist would through his individual vision and ability. Similarly, I am not interested in a 'realistic' depiction of a female (whatever the hell that is) I am interested in how she would be depicted by the artist, be it a him or her. There's no objective representation of anyone in art, and being a woman when writing a woman is only more efficient in getting shallow facts right. I can guarantee you that if you invest yourself in a character you are writing, be them male or female, if you really risk it and put parts of yourself in there, there'll be people of both sexes that will find the character alive and resonant within themselves, maybe not in an obvious ("oh she's 16 and depressed, so am I!") way, but in a more vital one, maybe.

I am so sick and tired of this bullshit 'write what you know' truism. Write what you feel strongly about and let the pieces fall where they may. If there's honesty, there's room for passion. If there's room for passion, there's room for vision.

QuoteOh, and Harvest Moon is among the greatest game ever made. The greatest game is Beyond and Evil, and I feel no shame in telling you this again.. and again.. and again..   

I feel your adoration is misplaced. Harvest Moon is the game where an emotional relationship is typifed by the act of breaking into a woman's house like a creepy stalker and reading her journal in which there is your NAME, followed by a number of HEARTS signifying how much she LOVES you.

Let's just think about this for a bit.

Let's think about abstraction versus immersion, about the model this game seems to suggest as 'fun'. About 'life as procedure' and the causality of emotion. I buy you flowers, you add another heart in your sole, Helm entry, in your little bedside journal. One step closer to a fulfilled life, you, my cabbages and the town fair that's coming next summer, every summer, forever. Maybe we'll also get a cat eventually. Can you check my pulse to tell me how many HPs I've got left?

Azure Dreams (PSOne) had a similar "relationship" gameplay device, except you visited the towns resident medium, answered a serious of bizzare questions, and were then told which of the towns eligible females was best suited to you (not for marriage this time, but as a "girlfriend"). You then proceeded to bombard her with random gifts, until you stumbled upon which gifts she actually preferred, and she proceeded to adore you.

Interestingly, the mediums question threads could be manipulated to access a, presumably, hidden thread with homosexual overtones. Following this thread, with questions such as "Do you prefer the company of men?", would prompt the medium to inquire "A-Are you sure?" or "Uhhh...is this what you really feel?", and would conclude with her reluctantly recommending you try for the affections of your male rival, a snooty guy with flowing blonde hair who treats you like dirt.

Harvest Moon: Same Sex Life Partner doesn't seem so far-fetched to me now...

btw, Shadow of Memories (PC, XBOX, PS2) is an adventure game which happens to be designed by a woman. An excellent game, although the main characters (all male) seem to possess "Bishonen" attributes (slighty feminine good looks, etc), a characteristic which seems to exist in a lot of game characters designed by female japanese game creators.

I wish a game handled an interpersonal relationship well for once. Can anyone suggest anything or do I have to file under 'games to make myself'?

The Sims 2.

Shadow of memories was great! I had no inclination that it was designed by any particular gender, after all I tend to think of games as made by a whole team of developers rather than saying "Charles Cecil made this!".

I like how in Fable my man went to marry this girl, and a person I know who is gay made their man marry a guy. That's so cool! Then on my second go I made my bloke gay because it's something I hadn't done in the game yet! (He married the teacher even though the kids were scared of him)

Engaged and living a lie, brother..  :=

Quote from: Helm on Tue 03/10/2006 16:16:48
Why is this 'wrong' suddenly? I am not interested in a phone drawn realistically, I am interested in a phone drawn as an artist would through his individual vision and ability. Similarly, I am not interested in a 'realistic' depiction of a female (whatever the hell that is) I am interested in how she would be depicted by the artist, be it a him or her. There's no objective representation of anyone in art, and being a woman when writing a woman is only more efficient in getting shallow facts right. I can guarantee you that if you invest yourself in a character you are writing, be them male or female, if you really risk it and put parts of yourself in there, there'll be people of both sexes that will find the character alive and resonant within themselves, maybe not in an obvious ("oh she's 16 and depressed, so am I!") way, but in a more vital one, maybe.

Well you're right about that.. still, I admire, or rather get enthusiastic about a well depicted woman, be it by a male or female, where the gender perspective is not obvious. Like "Strangers in Paradise" if you've read that.

Quote
I feel your adoration is misplaced. Harvest Moon is the game where an emotional relationship is typifed by the act of breaking into a woman's house like a creepy stalker and reading her journal in which there is your NAME, followed by a number of HEARTS signifying how much she LOVES you.

Relationship Schmelationship. You're missing the point about the game! Just harvesting your crops and visiting the woods like a proud lumberjack is teh shit. Or take the day of and go fishing. I have very little interest in dating sims, but I do know when I am entertained by simplicity..

I was just making a point about transparency and abstraction, and how in harvest moon you don't 'harvest' any 'crops' or visit any 'woods'. You just move a sprite about on tiles and press a button. The game has so little immersive capability for me, it's just a bunch of disassociated graphics and numbers. Matter of taste.

Diablo and Diablo 2 are good for both sexes. You kill stuff, and then you go into town and buy things.

QuoteDiablo and Diablo 2 are good for both sexes. You kill stuff, and then you go into town and buy things.

Just like the old days!  640 A.D. was a good year.

Quote from: ManicMatt on Tue 03/10/2006 00:10:03

The pussies! Now this game ROCKS! I LOVE IT!

(http://www.gamepricezone.com/images/covers/front/50580.jpg)

Quote

I'm sure there are adult men out there who love the Olson twins and would buy that game in a heartbeat. Creepy, creepy men though they may be.