Female teacher insults islam or something

Meowster · Tue 27/11/2007 17:40:47

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1294455,00.html

It's so sad that so much of the world is so, so backwards.

SSH · Tue 27/11/2007 17:56:58

Yeah, but imagine how offended you would be if I called by Teddy bear Spaff!

EldKatt · Tue 27/11/2007 17:59:03

What perhaps struck me most was this:

'"All we can do is show our support by speaking about what a wonderful person she is and how concerned she will be that she has insulted and offended people," said Miss Langworthy.'

Really, should that matter at all? The way I see it, she could well be a complete ass, and she could be gleeful about having insulted and offended people, and that is still no excuse to base laws on religion. What sort of a person she is, or how much remorse she is supposedly feeling, shouldn't matter at all, and acting like it does just diverts attention from what the true problem is: religious dogma trumping human rights.

Akatosh · Tue 27/11/2007 18:01:43

Before the whole religion discussion thing starts again, I'd like to use this opportunity to express how stupid I think this whole case is. Thank you for your attention, and now let's get back to The Religion Is Evil No It's Not Yes It Is Show.

RickJ · Tue 27/11/2007 18:28:15

"She is fascinated by different countries and cultures. She loves finding out about different ways of life,"

Nothing like living life to it's fullest, eh! Bring on them lashes baby!

m0ds · Tue 27/11/2007 18:47:16

I read about that this morning, hehe. Stupidness. What I love is the fact they somehow specifically found out the teddy bear's name Mohammed was that after the great prophet or what not. I take it there are no other Mohammed's in the world?

Another inventory item that should never be used, the prophet mohammed. Or a teddy bear with a similar name.

Great points though Eldkatt. To be fair though it is really only one religion that takes any minor offence mind-bogglingly seriously & with stupidly seriously consequences. But its okay none of them are terrorists.

SSH · Tue 27/11/2007 19:18:56

In the USA, if she'd cut up a US flag to mae a bear some clothes, she could be arrested, too..

JimmyShelter · Tue 27/11/2007 19:28:50

Quote from: SSH on Tue 27/11/2007 19:18:56
In the USA, if she'd cut up a US flag to mae a bear some clothes, she could be arrested, too..

I doubt that she would be punished with 40 lashes though.

EldKatt · Tue 27/11/2007 20:11:10

Quote from: m0ds on Tue 27/11/2007 18:47:16
Great points though Eldkatt. To be fair though it is really only one religion that takes any minor offence mind-bogglingly seriously & with stupidly seriously consequences. But its okay none of them are terrorists.

But unfortunately it also happens to be a religion with huge influence on actual legislation, etc, in a significant number of countries. If it were not so, I wouldn't really mind how seriously it takes anything. Islam and Islamic countries with Islamic law are AFAIK sort of unique in this aspect as well. (Though the USA might have gone down that road too if it weren't for the constitution...)

Good point regarding the name, anyway. Made me laugh. Isn't Mohammed, like, the most common name?

JimmyShelter · Tue 27/11/2007 20:21:16

Quote from: EldKatt on Tue 27/11/2007 20:11:10
Good point regarding the name, anyway. Made me laugh. Isn't Mohammed, like, the most common name?

Mostly because it's a custom to name your eldest son after the prophet. It is believed (if it's true is as always disputed) that the prophet was the first one with that name.
So everyone called Mohammed is named after him.

Still a load of bollocks to give someone 40 lashes ofcourse.

Pumaman · Tue 27/11/2007 22:18:41

What right do we have to judge the laws of Sudan?

If you're travelling abroad, you always have to take into account local laws and customs, and be aware that if you break them you will be subject to their punishments.

If I went to America and slept with a 16 year old, would the fact that it's legal in the UK excuse me from abiding by the law there?

EldKatt · Tue 27/11/2007 22:45:15

The issue is not that we want westerners to be exempt from their laws. The issue is that (at least to those of us with a secularist or humanist outlook) the laws themselves are harmful to everyone. I really don't see why we ought to keep quiet about these things out of respect. I think we have every right to judge their laws and consider them unethical.

If you ask me, it generally boils down to human rights. Legislation mandating specific religions by its very nature contradicts the freedoms of thought and of expression. Legislation preventing unbiased education ultimately denies children the freedom of thought. These are serious things (IMO more grave than your freedom of sex with 16-year-olds

), and I think it's necessary that we deal with them if we want our species and its habitat to survive for any great deal of time.

Stupot · Tue 27/11/2007 22:56:17

I feel sorry for the real victim. The Teddy bear.

Anyway. I'm sure if the great prophet were still around today he'd be flattered at having a cuddly toy named after him. No one should be lashed 40 times for anything. It's a shit excuse for a punishment.

OneDollar · Tue 27/11/2007 23:44:50

I'm assuming this breaks a law to do with acting disrespectfully towards the national religion or something (rather than a law that states no stuffed animals may be named after deities). Surely its obvious she didn't do it on purpose, wouldn't have done it if she had realised and hence it should result in a warning only.

...if I may state the case of Marx versus Lester, a sufferer of dyslexia and the unfortunate labelling of his toy Basset "Dog"...

m0ds · Wed 28/11/2007 00:27:07

Indeed. I'm pretty sure world peace doesn't include 40 lashings.

Religion enforced peace may do.

Funny that!

Raggit · Wed 28/11/2007 01:07:29

Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 27/11/2007 22:18:41
If I went to America and slept with a 16 year old, would the fact that it's legal in the UK excuse me from abiding by the law there?

Be my guest. They all dress like little whores and then when they get into trouble with somebody over 18 they pretend they didn't know what they were doing.

Woops, I probably just offended somebody there...

Nightfable · Wed 28/11/2007 02:57:00

Quote from: EldKatt on Tue 27/11/2007 22:45:15
The issue is not that we want westerners to be exempt from their laws. The issue is that (at least to those of us with a secularist or humanist outlook) the laws themselves are harmful to everyone. I really don't see why we ought to keep quiet about these things out of respect. I think we have every right to judge their laws and consider them unethical.

My thoughts exactly.

Meowster · Wed 28/11/2007 11:29:49

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Sudan

I've said this before I know but, I also don't feel the need to respect religions if they are executed/practiced in a way that I find offensive. I'm not going to purposely try to attack people about their religious beliefs unless they do something, personally, to me that I don't like. But I'm not going to pretend I find them okay either.

This situation with the teddy bear is unbelievable. Some of the parents have now come out and said they find it ridiculous too. One of the children has said he misses his teacher and acknowledges that he was the one to come up with the name, based on his own name. Why is this woman being held?

Babar · Wed 28/11/2007 12:31:09

Quote from: Nightfable on Wed 28/11/2007 02:57:00
Quote from: EldKatt on Tue 27/11/2007 22:45:15
The issue is not that we want westerners to be exempt from their laws. The issue is that (at least to those of us with a secularist or humanist outlook) the laws themselves are harmful to everyone. I really don't see why we ought to keep quiet about these things out of respect. I think we have every right to judge their laws and consider them unethical.

My thoughts exactly.

These two videos speaks for what happens and is considered "normal" in those countries.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c2_1175003196 --> Her father gave her to another family to settle a dispute and that family tortured her for 2 years. Often disputes are solved in Pashtunwali by giving daughters. Eventually people rescued her and took her to Kabul for help. She is only 7 years old. She is being treated by a Kabuli doctor.

See, this is the problem with lumping them all into 'those countries'. What are 'those countries'? I think you vaguely referenced religion in their somewhere, but you forget (or are not aware) that Pakhtunwali is not a religious ideology, but a tribal ideology that has nothing to do with religion. By 'those countries' do you mean countries with inhumane practices? Because there are dozens of such countries with hugely varied cultures, religions and backgrounds. I think there only connection is that they'd probably all be 'Developing Countries'.

Quote from: EldKatt on Tue 27/11/2007 17:59:03
Really, should that matter at all? The way I see it, she could well be a complete ass, and she could be gleeful about having insulted and offended people, and that is still no excuse to base laws on religion.

I'm not sure how basing laws on religion are any different from basing laws on anything else. Separation of Church and State is primarily an axiom of western thought, and while it might apply to most western countries, in a country that has decided to fundamentally identify itself in a religious way, it is up to them what they base their laws on. Now if you are talking about human rights, then I very much agree with you. However, given the choice, I'd rather go for 40 lashes than for a few months in prison. I don't see how one is less humane than the other.

Now on to the absurdities of of the accusation:
* The children themselves voted on what the name of the toy should be
* Many islamic people name their pets islamic names (why would a Sudani person name their pet Spot, for example?)
* They haven't really clarified how naming a toy Muhammad is insulting to Islam. I don't think they'd be able to come up with a sane explanation.

Wasn't it in Sudan that the guy was forced to marry a goat as a punishment for beastiality?

Nacho · Wed 28/11/2007 14:02:48

SSH, one quick question...

You said "In the USA, if she'd cut up a US flag to make a bear some clothes, she could be arrested, too..." In a clumpsy deffense of the possibility of a woman being lashed 40 times for nothing.

Imagine you read the news "A man arrested for dishonoring the american flag"

Would you authomatically think "Well, in Sudan you could be lashed 40 times for dishonoring Mahoma"?

Because, if you won' t, then it means you have some kind of fixation with America.

If your mind directly goes to "how can be this used to bash America?" at any little aspect, with any news, with every little thing you see, that would mean you have some kind of mental disorder. Presecutory mania, paranoia, something like that.

Relax man... Stop thinking in America every time you see that the World is not perfect, because, you know? In some bad things going on... Americans are not involved AT ALL!!! BELIEVE ME! Pass page! Go to the light!

The day we (Europeans) stop using America as "the joker card", using them as an excuse for everything going bad, and focus in us and how to be better, we will be in position to kick some Yankee asses!!! Till that moment, we will go on twisting and twisting in our slow spiral of decadency!!! Till the moment we stop making books like "We never were there" best sellers, in spite of trying to reach Mars before they do we won' t reach anywhere. The day we change "Haha... The Yankees pissed it off again"

for "What can I do to beat those fuckin' Americans?"

We will Rule the World!!! We will recover our lost dignity, we will be unbeatable!!!

ARE YOU WITH ME, ANDREW??? ARE YOU WITH ME EUROPEANS FELLAS!!! COME ON! SING WITH ME!

EUROPE!!!

P.S: What was this thread about???