Female teacher insults islam or something

[Darth Mandarb]

You guys better be careful what you write on here, there could be one of them reading this very thread and accusing us of insulting Islam AND that we should all be executed for it. See, this is how incredibly stupid and unpredictable these religion fanatics are. I just can't find the proper words to express myself... so I'll use this smilie instead  : and name him Mohammed.

I openly insult Islam outloud.  They should give her the 40 lashes for her heinous crime and then go right back to preaching peace and tolerance.  Way to go!  I used the bathroom yesterday and I named the result Mohammed.  That should be enough to kick-off the next Crusades!

Now before anybody has an anuerism or, in the name of peace, wants to cut my head off for my "racist" comments, you should know I feel the same way about all organized religions.

I agree with CJ's sentiments about culture dictating what's acceptable.  I'm not saying their practice of lashing is right or wrong.  I just don't like the hypocracy of a religion, which preaches peace and tolerance, giving lashes to somebody that named a bear.

[Sylvr]

If I meet these whores I will have the honor - I repeat, I will have the honor - to be the first one to cut the heads off Madonna and Britney Spears

A bit OT, I know, but isn't there only ONE time you can do that? Way to go, team  :

[Nacho]

Allah gave that guy two hands, so, with two cimitars he could behead two at once.

About some things told here: The "They are educated that way" is dangerous. It's a Rousseanian conception that nowadays' psicologysts shortly describe as: CRAP. Nazis interviewed after the war showed that they knew that what they did was bad. People electroshocking (not really, but they thought they were) another people in experiments recognised they knew that was bad. People cowardly sheltered in a mob know that are behaving unpropperly, but they happily on because it's what EVERYOBDY does.

It's the same things that happens when at the school everybody laughs when somebody makes a lame joke with the local nerd... You really know that' s not fair, but you laught and thing "***Phew*** At least that' s not happening to me".

But it finally reaches to time to grow up, stand up, and tell to the local thug, "Hey, moron... leave the guy alone, that' s not funny at all!"

I' ve been there. I stand up, and it' s scary... But the thug is as scared as you (More... they are cowards, and just in the moment you stand up you made a big step that left your fears alone)

Deffending those morons with the "enviromental" excuse is... Not hypocrital, but I can't seem to be able to find a better word... We never used that "Socioeconomical issues pushed the German population to gas 6,000,000 Jews, so, it' s ok, we should have made it in the same way" with the Nazis.

No. If it' s bad, it' s bad.

Why using this "enviromental" excuse with the Sudanese? Because some Islamist zealot could read this and chop our balls? Come on, let' s have guts. Those in the streets calling for executing a woman for nothing are totally bastards, as the mob laughing at the burning Jew' s business in Reichskristallnacht. Just the same. Why not appling to those the same adjectives we used with the nazis? Same crap, different smell.

And about religions... I think religions are mostly healthy. but, as happens with some healthy bodies, some cells can go nuts. We have a tumour, as well... Cristianity, for example (We can find more) has that zealots who kill abortist doctors (And I am with some shades, anti-abortist, but there' s an abyss between that and putting bombs). Jews have those "Hareddim". And Muslims have another big cancer as well... If you ask me, I think their tumour is quite bigger than that we have in Cristianity, and I, as friend of some "cells" of that "mostly healthy body", would like that dangerous Cancer to be extirpated ASAP. Using "envirmental" excuses and those "pacification policies" that some people wants to use, doesn't seem the answer to me.

[Nightfable]

Add all of these ingredients (in no specific order) and you get a raging mad Islamic terrorist:

- Poor education
- Violent upbringing
- Oppressing government
- Severe religious brainwash
- Peer pressure & indoctrination
- Faulty moral values
- Resentment/hate/envy
- Nothing better to do
- Access to weapons

[LimpingFish]

Building a system of law around religious ideals is akin to building a house on a cloud.

EDIT: http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3209882.ece ....pfft.

[Pumaman]

I'm not saying their practice of lashing is right or wrong.  I just don't like the hypocracy of a religion, which preaches peace and tolerance, giving lashes to somebody that named a bear.

It's easy to forget that until relatively recently, countries in the West had Blasphemy laws and would behead/imprison people who said anything against Jesus; not forgetting that if you did anything out of the ordinary in your day to day life, you'd be branded a witch and put to death.

You could argue that countries like Sudan are simply at a different stage of "evolution" to countries in the West, and that in time they will become more moderate. It's only when two countries at different stages collide that it becomes a problem, as in this case.

[Darth Mandarb]

It's easy to forget that until relatively recently, countries in the West had Blasphemy laws and would behead/imprison people who said anything against Jesus; not forgetting that if you did anything out of the ordinary in your day to day life, you'd be branded a witch and put to death.

You could argue that countries like Sudan are simply at a different stage of "evolution" to countries in the West, and that in time they will become more moderate. It's only when two countries at different stages collide that it becomes a problem, as in this case.

Oh believe me, I'm not sticking up for Christianity by any means.  We're just as hypocritical a bunch as any organized religion.  I say "we" 'cause I was raised Christian and still consider myself one.  Even though I hate what's been done in the name of my religion (and all organized religions).  Yet I still call myself one...  See?  Hypocrits all.

As for the Sudan being at a different state of "evolution" well ... I don't know.  I'm of two vastly differing opinions on this.

Part of me thinks a line must be drawn somewhere.  The world is evolving and 40 lashes for naming a bear is dumb.  What if they believed it was a crime worthy of a hanging/beheading?  Should we just say, "well, it's their culture"?  It's 2007, not 1380!

Then another part of me says, "who are we to say what they believe is right or wrong?"  It's their land and their culture and they should dictate it, not us.

But I lean more towards a line being drawn.  Her 'crime' is a joke and giving her lashes (even 1) is barbaric and, it would seem to me, intentionally confrontational.  Seems more like they want to "show the west (Christians/Jews)" something rather than actually caring about the bear.  Wars have been started over things far more trivial I suppose.

I can see it now ... 100 years from now the history records will say, "And then there was World War III ... the most deadly war in human history that destroyed nearly the entire planet.  All because of a teddy bear."

Way to go religion!!

[SSH]

It's easy to forget that until relatively recently, countries in the West had Blasphemy laws and would behead/imprison people who said anything against Jesus;

Still does in the UK. Last successful prosecution was 1977. Of course, if the teahcer had written a poem about shagging a muslim prophet's skull, as was the equivalent in the 1977 case then the reaction might have been somewhat more understandable.

[InCreator]

What's an offense? People tend to cower behind this word way too often these days.

So I say that you suck. Do you sue me? Probably not, you simply retaliate, throw a punch or ignore. Even if I tell it to other people.
But if I say that your skin color or god/sexual preference/faith sucks? What happens is a social hurricane.
Why are these two statements so different?

What I tend to think in those situations is:
On individual level, you should protect your identity much more than a racial group or religion of someone's. Did God ask for your f***king help?! He's almighty, he will punish me by himself, shut the hell up. Or did all those billion people of same color/sex preference? There's way more of them than one me. You don't have to play hero and saviour.

And why are all people in the world playing along with this sick, pointless game?
Especially in religion issues: if you're a true believer, no infidel should bend your faith with wrong word.
Why invent harsh punishments, require strict clothing, force all this? Is this faith so fragile and thin?

There's two similarities in Islam and Catholic Christianity: Both are oppressive (in their history). Both forced and even today force people to follow. Religious freedom in wide area of the world has somewhat cut down their reach and power a bit, but there's still large masses of people who are forced to follow.
Lot's of pacifist love-spreading believers would argue me on this, but all it takes is a history textbook to prove. Also, they isolate themselves from aggressive believers, claiming that those interpret Holy Bible (or Qur'an) in wrong way (murder is sin, etc), but if so huge percent of believers of something are like this, well, they can't be called exceptions.

I believe that one born in Islam country would risk his health and life even in early childhood when rebelling against the religion.

And even free democratic governments are still bound to faith. Military has its own preachers, people are buried in ground in catholic areas, president's call for God in their speech.  I'm not against this, in fact, I would like to be buried too and I celebrate Christmas. But I didn't really choose to do this, it's tradition of almost every single human around me. In few weeks, whole city will be full of Christmas adverts and shopping campaigns, a Christmas tree will be erected in city square, and so on. I can't really escape this even if I wanted to. Or be accepted in community, If I still choose to evade this. I would be called a nut case. That's what I call pressure. Not direct, but still social. And it works, too.

Still, political correctness is a word that makes me want to throw up whenever it comes up. It's a disease of 21th century.
People act and talk like total idiots because of this. And even generate whole court cases that would fit better into a comedy show.

[SSH]

Where does the catholic church force people to follow it today?

[Candall]

Where does the catholic church force people to follow it today?

"Force" is a strong word, but I do find their policy regarding marriage between Catholics and Non-Catholics to be somewhat objectionable.  If the wedding is officiated by a Catholic Priest, the Catholic party has to sign a document stating that he or she will see to it that the children are raised in the Catholic Church.  Sorry, but I don't believe in baptising a seed.

[Nacho]

Basically, their culture does not annoy me. A side of me thinks "Poor English teacher... But somehow she deserves it... Why travelling to those countries?".  Their culture must be magic, maravelous, amazing... But THERE. What really annoys me is that they come here and they want their culture to be respected, when it' s obvious that they don't respect ours when we go there. It' s a simple rule of three...

Of course, you all know who I am taling about when I refer to "they"... No muslim (or any person from any other culture) annoys me if he comes here and doesn't try to impose anything to me. IMPOSE is the key word. I am even happy if they don' t finally succedd with integration. Do they want to go on living like if they were in Cairo while they are in the middle of London? Perfect... but indoors, please... Don't impose.

The other side of the omelette? We won't be able to impose them anything? Perfect, for me, that' s a deal. How would affect me if a guy in Sudan can't drink Coca Cola?  

The best weapon against communism was to put a wall (They did it, actually...) and waiting 30 0r 40 years so everyone could see which side works better. ^_^

[InCreator]

Well, "force" is a strong word indeed. It works more via manipulation, propaganda, aid, etc.

But to answer direct question:

Where does the catholic church force people to follow it today?

Violent areas in Africa.

As far as Islam goes, I think that world works quite correctly right now. Peaceful muslims are allowed to believe if they want in mostly catholic or free-religion countries, and radicals (terrorists, etc) are shot on sight. I don't really see problem in this, theoretically. If specific followers of specific religion declare war on others, it should play by the rules of war.

However, in reality, innocents tend to get shot. And stupid teachers get lashes.

All would be fair if teacher would respect them...  BUT they would respect free thinking teacher might had and caused this incident. Anyway, as world is right now, these lashes would probably reconfigure that teacher. Or if it won't happen, give more crazy people reason to strap bombs on themselves. Either way, it's bad and should change for us to survive peacefully.

[EldKatt]

Basically, their culture does not annoy me. A side of me thinks "Poor English teacher... But somehow she deserves it... Why travelling to those countries?".  Their culture must be magic, maravelous, amazing... But THERE.

The sad part is that their laws and their culture don't just affect westerners who decide to go there. They also affect those who happen to have been born there, consenting or not...

[RickJ]

"Force" is a strong word, but I do find their policy regarding marriage between Catholics and Non-Catholics to be somewhat objectionable.  If the wedding is officiated by a Catholic Priest, the Catholic party has to sign a document stating that he or she will see to it that the children are raised in the Catholic Church.  Sorry, but I don't believe in baptising a seed.

Don't you think that when two people from different religions plan marriage that they ought to agree under which religious tradition they will raise their children before they get married?   It seems to me that the Catholic Church's position is quite practical and reasonable;  decide before you get married.  Once you make a decision have a priest, minister, rabi, mullah, shaman, pubah, or whatever from the religion you choose perform the ceremony.  Seems perfectly sane to me! 

[auriond]

I refrained from joining this discussion, because religion is a muddy issue and I try not to jump in feet first in any discussion about it. But I'm beginning to feel awfully disturbed here by some of the attitudes displayed in this thread.

First off, yes I think 40 lashes is definitely way way way overboard. In an ideal world, the religious authorities would take the opportunity to explain their religion to both the teacher and student, and everyone would leave enlightened by this exchange. Yeah right. Our world is nowhere near ideal, sadly.

That said, here are the trends that I find disturbing:

1. That people are venting their anger by deliberately bringing up the name of Mohamed in what they hope is an offensive manner. I find this disturbing because basically, doing this will offend innocent Muslims who happen to be reading this thread. You may say "Oh, anyone stupid enough to be offended by these offhand remarks are as idiotic as the Sudanese authorities and deserve to be offended." Perhaps that's how the extremists thought in the first place: anyone stupid enough to [insert offensive action here] are [insert degratory term here] and deserve to be [insert punishment here]. But does this mean we have to think likewise?

2. That there is this notion of "them" and "us". Maybe it's easier for you to see the "them" and "us" clearly, but for some of us the line is very much blurred, and that's why I get disturbed by this attitude. It's easy to be angered by such an incident to the point where you say "Sure, multiculturalism and pluralism is great... if you keep them segregated. Those barbaric Muslims should just stay in their own countries, and we should just stay in ours and not poke our noses into other people's affairs."

I live in a society where "them" and "us" (Muslims and Christians, as well as all others in between - Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, agnostics, aetheists) are all living in the same apartment block - by law. Sounds strange to you? Well, this is the same country (Singapore) which gave an American boy 6 strokes of the cane for vandalism. "Barbaric!" I hear you cry. But we didn't justify it by religion. It's just our laws.

Are we condemning the act of the 40 lashes, or the religion behind it? Why can't we just condemn the act without painting the whole religion with the same brush? After all not every Muslim country would punish this kind of "crime" with 40 lashes, so obviously it's not part of Islam.

I don't think it was the teacher's or the student's fault at all. I think the student was adorable, and if he is a Muslim, I hope he will grow up to know how extremism can be dangerous. But I don't think it's Islam's fault either. It is simply the fault of the authorities, who are human. And the only people who can change that are the Sudanese themselves. I think much of our vitriol against religion stems from our frustration at not being able to forcefully bend others to our way of thinking, but that slow and apparently ineffective education and communication is apparently the only way.

Which is what that teacher was doing, actually.

For what it's worth, I identify myself as Christian, but I have ideas that other Christians might consider strange or even blasphemous.

[Nightfable]

Ok, I'm re-modifying this because I want to say something...

Religion make evil people achieve their goal through the blind faith of others. That's why I think, religion is bad and should be banned!!!!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Well, this is the same country (Singapore) which gave an American boy 6 strokes of the cane for vandalism. "Barbaric!" I hear you cry. But we didn't justify it by religion. It's just our laws.

I actually remember when this happened.  There was a big state poll here that asked what Americans thought of this kind of punishment for vandalism/theft and a majority were actually for it (like 60%)! 

Caning someones buttocks hurts their pride more than anything, but 40 lashes can easily kill someone.

[Nacho]

Auriond, I think that those who are venting their "anger" here have been very carefull with sepparating the "muslims" from the "zealots"... Basically good muslims (99.999% of them) are victims as well.

[Babar]

You know, it is very easy for 'innocent' muslims to get caught in all of this. In many areas, the only thing a person has to hear the 'official' news is national TV and radio. Other than that, it is only the mullahs. So in the unlikely event that one source is telling the truth, the other will say it is lies. It doesn't really matter what the truth is, it is only what they've been told that matters. An example is the furore over the cartoons, or even more irritating, the weirdness being spread that polio vaccinations are actually a zionist conspiracy to render the muslim population impotent.

I'd be happy to know how you can fight this sort of thing? Kick out a few mullahs? That'll just antagonise the people. Go on a TV/radio offensive? It is already being done, a bit, but it isl just being countered by mullah propaganda. Besides, the target audience of most TV/radio channels that are willing to do this, are so far away from these people, that it wouldn't make a difference.

They start hanging up banners in the big cities, with huge lettering saying all these things, and hey, an english speaker going past will nod with approval (or shake the head because of the bad spelling), but what about the people the banner is supposed to target? Those that very likely can't even read english, let alone their own language, and don't come to the big cities very often? And when you get governments that don't really care one way or another, the situation is pretty much hopeless.