Flaming/trolling: good thing or bad?

[Meowster]

Are all these threads about religion and racism and so on and so forth... are they REALLY a bad thing? They degenerate into name-calling and abuse every single time. But is  this bad? It's exactly what happens in real life, right? You start a conversation with a group of 40 people about religion, and you're all going to have a different opinion, and you're going to start annoying each other and by then you've got a fully fledged argument on your hands. Massive arguments about things like religion aren't restricted to this forum.

So is it actually a bad thing that it happens? SkyFire1 for instance, made an extremely racist remark, and claims he's not racist and did not mean for it to be racist. All that happened was that he got flamed a bit on an internet forum. As a result, he won't get his teeth kicked in when he says that to someone in real life.

On the upside, people like ManicMatt... a good, friendly person... really overreacted to the use of the word "paki", which nobody else found as offensive as him. This resulted in borderline flaming of Matt for being oversensitive. Clearly he didn't mean to offend anyone... quite the opposite. But he overreacted and people have challenged his opinion on the matter and, probably he won't overreact like that if people are having that discussion in real life. Unless they ARE actually being racist in which case... go ahead and sock 'em, Matt .


Everybody always says that its terrible the way those threads degenerate... I think it has to be expected in a forum with such a diverse userbase. And I don't think it's such a terrible thing really... it's an angry, heated debate but, unlike real life, nobody is at risk of getting hurt... only banned (Phfshhyeh right).

I personally find these arguments quite enthralling, to see so many very very DIFFERENT opinions and DIFFERENT reactions, and I learn a lot about people from them.

Discuss, and then degenerate into madness and chaos and threats and name-calling so that my job is done...

[evenwolf]

First!




..... actually, that "first" comment that you see everywhere on the internet (like aintitcool.com) is exactly what I love about AGS.Ã, Ã,  Ã, We don't do that dumb stuff.Ã,  No one ever says that.Ã,  Ã, For the most part everybody is mature enough to speak with common decency and debate issues like racism.Ã, Ã, 

Here's my perspective:Ã,  Ã,  Ã, So many AGS users seem very similar because people speak in technical or generic terms,Ã,  or sometimes I group names that begin with the same letter together.Ã,  But its when I learn of opinions that I actually start to carve an idea of his/her personality.

Take DG.Ã,  Ã, He's always on the edge and gets under people's skin (usually individuals at a time)Ã,  and that's what I associate with "DGMacPhee".Ã,  He never takes a backseat and always shoves opinions and facts to the forefront of his argument.Ã,  Ã, Sure I know his face, from 2D photographs I've seen.Ã,  Ã, But his personality lies in his opinions, his humor, and those moments you'd never experience if you didn't challenge him about his beliefs.Ã,  Ã, 

No matter how the argument turns - these kinds of threads spark activity all throughout the forums.Ã,  Ã, They're like public interest groups that get people involved.Ã,  Or at least leave impressions and new dynamics between individuals. and like I said, they help sculpt who those individuals are in an otherwise generic public "forum".

Example:Ã,  Both Andail and Darth Mandarb "clashed" with me during our first encounters in debate threads.Ã,  Ã, Darth had some very differing opinions on the war (no comment!)Ã,  and I shot all kinds of negative rhetoric his way.Ã,  Ã, But its not as if it would have been better had we both kept our mouths shut.Ã,  Ã,  We became individuals that day, in both our minds (as well as the spectators reading quietly).Ã,  Ã,  I can't remember what Andail's problem was.Ã,  He can shove it!Ã,  Ã, 

[MrColossal]

We don't do that dumb stuff.

QFT!

I have to expand on what Brother Evenwolf said about dumb stuff... I hate QFT [quoted for truth] and all the little one liner "haha you're stupid/awesome" things people do on other forums.

On the AGS forums, more often than not, when someone has an opinion they state it either in a long ass post or a concise one. People don't just go "shut up yer gayeh" and then link to smileys shooting shotguns at each other. We don't usually TRY to turn a thread into a flame bait thread. Sometimes threads don't degenerate and I wonder if those "successes" are forgotten to the degenerated ones.

The thing is, discussions about adventure games on these forums sometimes degenerate into stereotyping and name calling. It isn't just high risk threads like religion or what-have-you. People who say "Why are you talking about this on an ADVENTURE GAME FORUM!" are also missing the point of the community that exists here. I personally have a bunch of interests and a bunch of friends I made on this forum. We have a bunch of interests that are equal to or varied from each other, I want to talk about these interests or differences with them, where is the best place? Why, how about the place I met them!

Eric

[Andail]

Polemics is important, because it trains us as communicating beings. Without a need to defend your thesis, the thesis will not develop. Even if people don't seem to change after a heavy debate (even when they have "evidently" "lost" it) people change more than you might think. They may not admit it immediately, of course.
I think several people here have changed since I first met them. In some cases it's because mine and their opinions have moved closer to eachother; in other cases it's a matter of not agreeing but respecting, and understanding their reasons for not thinking as I do.
For instance, Helm and I might not have become so good friends if we hadn't had the disagreement of the century some five years ago. Darth came out as a much better person in my eyes after our first few arguments. Nacho and me have to rinse the air every other week, it seems

So yeah, just avoiding arguments like the plague will leave you quite unchanged, and will just bury the bad spirit inside of you.
Then again, just flame-baiting for the sheer fun of it is inherently bad, and will in the long run make you socially excommunicated. So flaming/trolling = bad, arguing/debating = mostly productive.

[Gregjazz]

IBTL!

Seriously now, I think a little trolling/flaming can be good to solidify the community. I also believe that those things are really unavoidable to some degree. As more and more people join the AGS community, we see issues such as trolling and flaming crop up moreso than in the past, so it's just something we need to put up with (to a certain extent).

I'd rather a forum where there's a little room for trolling and flaming rather than one in which each of your posts are reviewed by moderators, and if it could be slightly considered trolling or flaming, be deleted.

[Raggit]

I agree with what everybody else is saying here.

We do a lot better than a lot of other forums when it comes to handling a massive conflict. 

Plus, not ALL controversial threads develop into a fight.  The thread I posted about religion was very productive and respectful.

It isn't the controversial threads that start fights, immature people who can't handle a debate start fights. 

I believe that debating is a good, healthy thing that has the potential to make you grow intellectually.  I know that I have been shaped by a little bit here and a little bit there of all the debates I've had online, and in "real life."

[Helm]

RTFM!


Personally, I almost never have seen any argument thread here degenerate. If you think they have, I urge you to take the grand tour of other internet fora, like say, gamefaqs or what-have-you and witness der trve horror. If the worst we can get here is manicmatt being touchy about 'paki' and some people being all 'huh, why?' about it, then I can live with that.

Seriously, I've spent time in places where wishing death on somebody and their whole family for whatever trivial reason is just starters and where communicational darwinism is paramount. We're living in internet heaven here in comparison.

And to expound on what Andail is saying above a bit, I'd honestly like to know what people think on issues like racism and religion and whatnot, because otherwise you might make friends here based on false assumptions. For example there's been cases where a person might post something here and make me lose most respect for them by just a few lines. Everything was great before they posted that, but now I know about that side of their personality. Would it be better if we willfully tried to obfuscate our true characteristics in the name of some misplaced sense of internet solidarity? What? Because we all play adventure games?

[Ali]

I don't visit many other forums, so I have no idea what the ironically-used abbreviations in these posts mean.

RTFM!

Except that!

I'm happy not knowing really. One other forum I visit is Blenderartist (né Elysiun) where they don't allow 'political content'. I never visit their off-topic board because I don't feel very comfortable with that degree of censorship. Like many others, I'm happy to put up with a degree of flaming in exchange for greater freedom of expression.

I do think that the phenomenon of flaming comes about as a consequence of the linearity of forum threads. Debates awork laterally, but back-and-forth arguments are linear. For that reason, discussions narturally tend towards the back-and-forth.

[MrColossal]

GOOMBA!

To expand on Helm [wink]

Just to bring his last point out of the depths and into the light. There are also people who I didn't really notice for various reasons and then they post in a debated thread and I gain all sorts of respect for them and actively seek their opinion on various matters.

Debates don't just bring out the worst in people so you can find out what kind of jerk you're really talking to.

[scotch]

I find the forum "discussions" generally very annoying, and it's slightly offputting to me that people I know to be intelligent get so involved in them, especially after they turn into the train wrecks that they often do when certain people get involved. I don't see the appeal at all, just like I don't see why you'd want to have a 40 person discussion on anything in real life, especially if the 40 people include very young people, and very stupid people. Picturing some of you guys in a heated argument with Skyfire about anything is amusing, and sad.

OTOH! I recognise that a lot of people find them entertaining, so I'm ok with the just not clicking on them if I can help it policy. I expect this is more a problem with my attitude to arguments in general.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I endorse Scotch's post.  Also:

Seriously now, I think a little trolling/flaming can be good to solidify the community.

Solidify or polarize, Greg?

[Helm]

I find the forum "discussions" generally very annoying, and it's slightly offputting to me that people I know to be intelligent get so involved in them, especially after they turn into the train wrecks that they often do when certain people get involved.

I expect this is more a problem with my attitude to arguments in general.

Yes, it's more your problem than real from where I'm sitting 'cause I haven't seen a train-wreck discussion here in ages. More like go-kart pile-up at worst.

[Ghormak]

I can't remember having ever seen any proper flaming on these forums. The worst name-calling usually takes the form of "you're stupid if you think that! *smile*". In other communities, you call somebody a "fucking faggot" even when you're helping them with their problems. I know, it's absurd.

I like the state of the forums here, because most people who post actually have something useful or interesting to say. I don't contribute to debate/argument very often, because I often feel I don't really have anything worthwhile to add. Sometimes I wish more people would think like that, but in general I think these forums are a-ok.

Edit:
And yes, all that "First post!" and "QFT!" crap is such a senseless waste of everybody's time! I'm glad we've managed to stay away from it.

[Andail]

I don't contribute to debate/argument very often, because I often feel I don't really have anything worthwhile to add.

Well you don't, which is why we're all glad you only post 0.5 posts a day.

[Ghormak]

Ooh! A flame!

[Meowster]

Picturing some of you guys in a heated argument with Skyfire about anything is amusing, and sad.

I'M NOT A CHILD!!!! YOU HAVE NO PROOF!




I think to be honest in real life I wouldn't bother arguing with people like SkyFire. Because I would feel bad arguing with a 15 year old boy, but also to be honest I don't think he'd be quite as rude in real life. For instance, this gem of a PM he sent me after he threatened to rape my 'transexual ass'... sorry SkyFire, it's too good to not share:

Feel free to shit yourself as you experience my rage! Fuck bastard super cockshitmaster!!!! fuckity fuck fuck fuck! cuntlicker wallfucker!

Of course, people don't behave like that in real life so much, but I think for the most part, the rest of us are pretty much our true selves on this forum... or close enough, anyway. If everybody was like Skyfire, no, there wouldn't be a point in arguing. But very few people are... most people have something interesting to say or contribute, and it all makes for very interesting reading


Clever people arguing is generally an interesting thing to observe

[lo_res_man]

What I like about this forum is the grand discussions, the thrust and parry, the royal raspberry-ing. Sure, we can turn into gibbering doody heads, but that's the price we must pay for the freedom to express ourselves. For the most part we are mature men and woman, who sometimes get a bit carried away. Sure hot button issues can polarize us, but they do anyway, isn't it better to express our opinions, and expose our true colours, then to seethe behind a wall of courtly blandness?

[Nacho]

Hey Petter! To rinse the air? Why? I know I pushed my theory of "reverse racism" a bit too much comparing it to terrorist acts, but that was just that, a dialectic tactic to force you to give an oppinion in a direction or the opposite.Ã,  It didn' t corrupted the air for me in any way. I was just discussing with a person I personally know, a friend, knowing that he was going to react as if he was personally talking with me, which means, without missunderstandings, over reactions, bad stories, or hard feelings.

If that arguments created the billionesimal part of a gram of annoyance in you, I am not just also to apologise, but also disposed to go back about all I said. It (winning a discussion) wouldn' t be worth of it (annoyimg a friend)

So, if needed, sorry. You have me in msn, if you see me we can talk about that. anyway, apologies again.

As a note side, I' d like to say the name of guys I consider mates who were "assholes" for me before, because of discussions... DG MacPhee, JetXL and Mordalles.

Having a discussion, apology/receives apologies and those apologies to be accepted might be most powerfull as a friend maker than years of "normal" internet relationship.

So, if this can work with you Petter too, in case the relation with you and me was "corrupted" from your point of view (first news for me, really) I' d like to test the therapy.Ã, 

[Blackthorne]

For instance, this gem of a PM he sent me after he threatened to rape my 'transexual ass'... sorry SkyFire, it's too good to not share:

Feel free to shit yourself as you experience my rage! Fuck bastard super cockshitmaster!!!! fuckity fuck fuck fuck! cuntlicker wallfucker!

I think this may very well be the most entertaining item I've read on a message board all year.

Oh, and the requisite....

You're a bint for starting this thread.

Bt

[skyfire2]

I think to be honest in real life I wouldn't bother arguing with people like SkyFire. Because I would feel bad arguing with a 15 year old boy, but also to be honest I don't think he'd be quite as rude in real life. For instance, this gem of a PM he sent me after he threatened to rape my 'transexual ass'... sorry SkyFire, it's too good to not share:

Feel free to shit yourself as you experience my rage! Fuck bastard super cockshitmaster!!!! fuckity fuck fuck fuck! cuntlicker wallfucker!

I told yutzster to "fuck off" because she continued to spam me with garbage. She whined about it so i did more and the spamming stopped.

[MrColossal]

If it ever happens again you can block users from PMing you in your profile settings.

[ManicMatt]

Hmm should I believe a liar like Skyfire? Skyfire the liar! That rhymes!

Skyfire sent me an interesting PM not long ago:

"Did your daddy touch your penis while saying "Paki" when you were little or something?"

To which I replied:

"What is your intention with asking me this? What do you hope to achieve? I request that you please desist with such comments."

To which he replied:

"You are crying about something that is completely ridiculous and the only thing that I can conjure up is that it must be related to a hideous crime such as molestation."

To which I replied!:

"I suppose it would seem ridiculous to racist scum like yourself."

What ever will he say next! I can barely contain my excitement!

Not very mature of me to post this, but if the moderators really have a problem with it go ahead and delete it. 

EDIT: Wait, I got a reply!

"At least racists don't run around with socks in their pants.  Wink"

Huh? That was almost a friendly mock. I don't get him.

[skyfire2]

  Okay.....

[Raggit]

HEY!  I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

[LimpingFish]

I don't think I've ever entered into a "debate" on the internet with the express intention of insulting someone. Whenever I feel the urge to post in a thread, it's simply to add my opinion to the mix and see how things go

I will admit to sometimes stepping over the line, though, and allowing some posts to become more aggressive then I would like, but the option to apologize is always there. An option which, I'm not ashamed to say, I've availed of on a (small ) number of occassions.

Internet forums are so different to having conversations face to face that, sometimes, we behave in a manner that may not reflect our true personality.

Or, in a scary way, maybe they give our true personalities free reign to express thoughts and opinions we wouldn't normally admit to?

LimpingFish shudders...

[lo_res_man]

HEY! I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

to quote one of those funny in jokes no one but 12 17 teen year olds who went to summer camp will get, "I don't get it" [laughter]
Is the above meant to be ironic, or is he (or she, but i'm thinking he) really a phreakin' nut job?

[skyfire2]

HEY! I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

to quote one of those funny in jokes no one but 12 17 teen year olds who went to summer camp will get, "I don't get it" [laughter]
Is the above meant to be ironic, or is he (or she, but i'm thinking he) really a phreakin' nut job?

I think he/she posted it for comic relief on this edgy topic.

[Meowster]

I think to be honest in real life I wouldn't bother arguing with people like SkyFire. Because I would feel bad arguing with a 15 year old boy, but also to be honest I don't think he'd be quite as rude in real life. For instance, this gem of a PM he sent me after he threatened to rape my 'transexual ass'... sorry SkyFire, it's too good to not share:

Feel free to shit yourself as you experience my rage! Fuck bastard super cockshitmaster!!!! fuckity fuck fuck fuck! cuntlicker wallfucker!

I told yutzster to "fuck off" because she continued to spam me with garbage. She whined about it so i did more and the spamming stopped.

Alright, this is a lie so I really do have to react to this... he's already claimed I sent him porn via PM before...

SkyFire, I don't know how many other people besides Matt and myself that you have tried to 'sneakily' harrass through PM while maintaining an innocent face in public, but give it up. If I showed moderators some of your comments you would immediately be banned for extreme racism, extreme sexism, threatening me, threatening to rape me, threatening to rape my boyfriend... and that's just off the top of my head. If you try to deny this, I can show any single person who is interested my account with PMs from you. That's solid proof that you can't deny.

I still haven't recieved an apology from you for any of these things. I don't believe you've apologised to ManicMatt either.

At least when myself or other people on the forums are angry or rude to other forumers, we do it with honesty. I didn't pretend I wasn't angered by ManicMatt's overreaction, but that doesn't mean I don't like him, and it ESPECIALLY doesn't mean I send him nasty and childishly taunting PMs in secret to offend him. I broached the subject in front of everyone, and if anyone wants to disagree, that's fine. That's how discussions work.

I don't believe you would act like this in a real life, face-to-face conversation... because if you threatened to rape me in real life, you would go to prison. Sadly, because you feel safe behind the wall of the internet, you feel like you can say these things without any consequences. And sadly, that's mostly true. But my point is, you don't contribute to debates. You don't give your opinion and then listen to or respect the opinion of others. You just send them vicious PMs telling them how you're going to rape them. Or asking if they were sexually abused as a child whilst being called a 'Paki'.

If you disagree with this... if you think that telling somebody how you're going to rape them is a valuable contribution to an argument... please do tell us how!

[Blackthorne]

Perhaps he meant he would just seduce you with his "rapist" wit.  He gets his adjectives screwed up a lot.


Bt

[Domino]

I am no expert in criminal law, but isn't it also illegal to threaten to rape somebody over the internet. I am pretty sure that the authorities would not take this so lightly.

[m0ds]

The thing is Yufster, if you go out and have a similar disucssion with one of your friends, and they say they're offended by something - you don't then continue on and rub it in their face, you accept their stance and you back off a bit - because on most occasions, you respect their feelings.

A lot of these discussions reach the point where people think they are invincible, and because this is the internet - that they can get away with voicing their opinions no matter how harsh they are to other people. I think that's wrong, and that is when a discussion is stepping into dangerous territory. I don't come here to try and offend someone, if I knew I was going to - I simply wouldn't say it at all.

As people say, a lot of these debates are very interesting to read, and it's nice to know where other people stand in relation to them. But when someone gets personally offended, that to me is a violation of what they've come here to do. If it's gone beyond the point where someone can be passive and simply "accept" whats being said, either they should stop being involved or the offending people should just stop rarrling them up. And because it's the internet, everyone is allowed to be involved, so it's just better if the person rarrling people up just stops.

And one thing you very rarely see on internet forums are apologies. No-one, or very few, seem prepared to actually apologise. I can see this thread is partly in spite of my post, but I'm glad. People realised they needed to calm down a bit, and did so. It wasn't the subject matter that was starting to offend me, it was the personal level on which some of the posts were reaching that made me think - come on, why be a jerk?

As LF says, the internet gives us a chance to say things we don't necessarily mean, or would simply not say in real life. That is a dangerous tool, hence why day by day the world becomes a more shite place to live, policies here, policies there... If we as people, who use the net on a day by day basis, started to treat it as if it WAS real life, things would be better, and less people would get offended. This is simply because after saying or reading things on the internet, some might think it's then possible to go outside the internet and get similar reactions, where as in most cases they don't, and possibly end up getting gunned down by an AK47.

You yourself come from Ireland. A place where many people are divided because they simply cant agree whether bread and wine actually IS the blood and body of Christ. One side wouldn't contest the other in real life because of fear of a brawl, so why contest it online? Just because you're behind a screen doesn't make it any less RIGHT. Yes, it makes it more SAFE, but definitely not RIGHT.

Anyway, saying that - a small amount of trolling flaming etc can be funny. Especially when those people involved are blatently pricks. But that's not always the case, as with the racism thread with people like Matt, who most people here generally like and have no problem with. I see high points & low points in a lot of the conversations on this board, and generally just read and decide not to post. But when something like racism which should either be taken seriously, or in a completely joking manner (which that post was NOT trying to promote, otherwise we would've all laughed off what Kramer did) & it starts to get personal, really annoys me, and flaming then becomes completely un-neccesary.

[Meowster]

Hmm, I actually find that apologies happen far more on internet forums that in real life...! Particularly AGS forums... that's something I've always loved about it, that people really aren't afraid to apologise if they've upset someone... like for instance, ManicMatt, right there is an example of people immediately apologising when they realise the seriousness of his situation.

By the way, this thread wasn't at all in spite of your post...! I'm going to be honest... I didn't read your post

This thread was actually mostly because of SkyFire, because he's made me appreciate how many decent people are actually on this board and how the discussions we have, while they often become quite heated arguments... aren't actually generally nasty. And people DO apologise and learn, and I like that!


As for me being from Ireland... I did know a girl who was EXTREMELY anti-English, and as I am English I did get quite a lot of "shit" from her. She was extremely aggressive and that's what I don't like... that's the kind of person SkyFire is putting himself across as being. He can't win an argument in public, so he sneakily says nasty things to people via PM. It's underhand and unpleasant, but I don't see a point in reporting him as so few people get banned on this forum ever. However, I can deal with one unpleasant person. Everyone else I know here is fine... even people I don't particularly like, because they're not nasty and vicious, they just mind their own business. They don't bother threatening you in PM because you have disagreed with them.

But a lot of people in Ireland (I'm from the South where things are generally peaceful!)... a lot of people are fine, and will discuss things and, yes, they'll become heated... but that's it, that's all.


The reason I love AGS is because you can have this angry debates and not fall out with people, and not be afraid to apologise and see others point of view. At least, that's the way I've always seen AGS forums...

[m0ds]

Well, having events like Mittens and Ronittens certainly helps, because then you know you'll be in deep shit if you've said something bad about or to one of the attenndees...

like for instance, ManicMatt, right there is an example of people immediately apologising when they realise the seriousness of his situation.

Sure, but it took a little intervention for any of those apologies to surface. Apologies are all good, but really shouldn't be necessary in the first place, because as I said - people should be more wary and accepting of personal beliefs. I've rarely had to apologise for something I've said to a person in real life, and if I found myself apologising constantly online - I would wonder what's wrong with me.

[Meowster]

Ah, of course apologies should be necessary! Even in an ideal world, people are going to disagree or cross each others paths, and apologising is a wonderful thing to do!

And it's not all just for having directly insulted Matt on purpose... one person on that thread apologised for having said something without REALISING he would be offended... you see? Immediately I have more respect for that person...


In an IRL situation, people would be far less eager to apologise... IRL people hold grudges far more easily and for far longer... don't you find?

[m0ds]

Yes, I suppose you're right.

My conclusion is: Screw the internet, I want real life back

[Domino]

I want an apology from the internet for taking up much of my life, and also for costing me 30 dollars a month.

[Meowster]

Yes, I suppose you're right.

My conclusion is: Fuck the internet, I want real life back

But people are so much less tolerant in Real Life!!!!

"real life" is such a ridiculous phrase hahaaha...

I've proven you wrong, now you have to buy me a drink sometime (6 pack of import heineken in oddbins, £4.50, I'll give you my postal address in PM)

[m0ds]

Okay, face-to-face life. Hows that?

I'd have happily bought you drinks at Brittens if you'd have ever turned up the many times you said you would, so NO, no Heineken delivery for you. And I'd be quite happy to deny that to you to your face, too!

[Raggit]

HEY! I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

to quote one of those funny in jokes no one but 12 17 teen year olds who went to summer camp will get, "I don't get it" [laughter]
Is the above meant to be ironic, or is he (or she, but i'm thinking he) really a phreakin' nut job?

I think he/she posted it for comic relief on this edgy topic.

Yes, HE posted it pretty much for his own amusement because he was bored, and wanted to see how folks would react, and it has nothing to do with him being a phreaking nut job.

I thought it was quite hilarious, and I giggled and giggled like a little school boy while reaching for the peanut butter... 

Okay, seriously, I'll stop before Mark Foley comes knocking on my door.

As far as the discussion about grudges and apologies go, I'm not sure why somebody would hold a longer grudge against another in "real life" than on the net.  Particularly if you see that person daily. 

Sure, you may have had a big fight, but as time passes, you start seeing the things you originally liked in that person to begin with and all is calm.

On the net, there's a lot more anonymity, and it generally has the same effect.  You may at first avoid getting into discussions that person is in, but after a while, everybody forgets it, and we move on. 

[Gregjazz]

Solidify or polarize, Greg?

Hmm, actually polarize. But the polarizations are solidified.

[DGMacphee]

Take DG.   He's always on the edge and gets under people's skin (usually individuals at a time)  and that's what I associate with "DGMacPhee".

I'm on the edge? When did I become the forum's own Martin Riggs?

I can't remember having ever seen any proper flaming on these forums. The worst name-calling usually takes the form of "you're stupid if you think that! *smile*". In other communities, you call somebody a "fucking faggot" even when you're helping them with their problems. I know, it's absurd.

I think it's because they're comfortable with each other and not afraid of offending delicate sensitivities. I know this is the case on one other forum I go to. You have guys and girls jesting each other, making fun of others but getting it as good as they give it. It's part of a relaxed atmosphere and no one is overly worried about offending others.

I'm not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm saying it works in their case. As for AGS, I'm not so sure. I think if we resorted to a lot of playful name-calling, there'd be some people who wouldn't be able to hack it. I reckon there'd be a lot of confusion about what they actual intent was. Like is someone says "hey fucksticks!" I reckon it'll leave some some people thinking, "wait did he really mean to call me a fuckstick for serious or was he just joshin??"

P.S. GARDA!!1!

[evenwolf]

Let's begin with Andy Penis...  and we'll wrap up with the time the AGS blue toilet exploded.

[DGMacphee]

I reckon Andy Penis did quite a bit to advance the career of Andy Milonakis.

So yes, in hindsight, not my brightest idea.

[Andail]

GAMUTLOBSTER!
I demand a character who can advance the career of Skyfire.

[SSH]

Take DG.   He's always on the edge and gets under people's skin (usually individuals at a time)  and that's what I associate with "DGMacPhee".

I'm on the edge? When did I become the forum's own Martin Riggs?

Which reminds me of this

[ManicMatt]

"I'm just pming you to say I'm sorry for being a dick. I have no idea why paki offends you but apparently there's a reason."

Hey look skyfire apologised! By sending me a PM with the very word that offends me in it. What a complete and utter git. I think I will insult him back in a PM, and then block him so I get the last word in. I'm sure that will annoy him greatly!

[Becky]

Geez guys, if someone's annoying you that badly, why don't you just block them in the first place instead of throwing your PMs all over the forums? :/

[TheYak]

[Meowster]

Geez guys, if someone's annoying you that badly, why don't you just block them in the first place instead of throwing your PMs all over the forums? :/

SkyFire continually harrasses both Matt and I. He always sends the first nasty PM because he knows that if he said such a thing in public, he'd be banned. I know, as Matt probably does, that showing a moderator some of the things he's sent us (unprovoked, too!) would probably not get him banned, as moderators here are so laid back.

However, by mentioning some of the things in public that he says, I've had great results. He immediately stopped threatening me, although he didn't apologise. I assume Dominos comment about it still being harrassment even over the internet scared him...

Hopefully he'll stop being so sneaky and nasty to members of the AGS forums. If he's not going to be banned, then at the very least I want people to realise what a vile underhand and sneaky little piece of work he is.

Anyway you have to admit that one quote was really, really funny

It's quality stuff. Feel free to experience my rage!

[Haddas]

I apologize for everything.

[m0ds]

would probably not get him banned, as moderators here are so laid back.

If you want to send me a copy of the PM's, and if Matt can do the same - the moderators can look over this issue seriously. Mods are constantly watching certain members, but we'd need some proof to act.

[Meowster]

I've already let Scotch log into my account to view the PMs... erm... is that enough? I can send you my login details so you can check too... it's kind of a 'lie-proof' way (so you know I haven't edited what he's said or anything).

Thanks M0dski

[Sam.]

If skyfire really sent those messages (which I don't doubt) then some action should be taken, Noone has the right to post random vicious things to people, with no provocation. Manicmatt and I have had our differences, but I know hes a good guy and I wouldn't ever do something to deliberatly offend him, almost everything I've said has been in jest. Skyfire needs to learn how to speak (type) to people.

That wasnt really about trolling, but i wanted to say it. So maybe it was...

[Becky]

SkyFire continually harrasses both Matt and I. He always sends the first nasty PM because he knows that if he said such a thing in public, he'd be banned. I know, as Matt probably does, that showing a moderator some of the things he's sent us (unprovoked, too!) would probably not get him banned, as moderators here are so laid back.

I agree, trial by public harassment works very effectively, but I don't think the moderators are as laid back and unwilling to take issues seriously as you think, which is why I don't really see the need for a "he-said-she-said" quote fest in a thread that had actually a serious point about trolling and flaming on our forums...

[m0ds]

Well, as far as I'm aware - scotch hasn't presented anything about this to the moderators. I don't really think I also need to delve into your PM's, but it would be good if scotch could post these comments up for the mods in the appropriate place.

I don't really see the need for a "he-said-she-said" quote fest in a thread that had actually a serious point about trolling and flaming on our forums...

True, but we've already come to the conclusion that a small amount of trolling/flaming is acceptable, but harrasment isn't. So it's a good thread to bring out some of the problems that need ironing out. As for the quote fest, no-one said anything about posting the quotes up in this thread. The ones that have been quoted so far were to make a point.

[Andail]

Allright, moderators will discuss this from now on. We're grateful if any further posts in this thread avoid the Skyfire-issue, lest the thread may be locked.
If you have pertinent information regarding the case, PM a moderator.

So, where were we? Oh yeah, Ghormak sucks.

[LimpingFish]

Flaming Trolls would go down great in WoW!

[Meowster]

You play WoW, limpingfish?

[LimpingFish]

I did, but my trial ran out. And I'm too poor/mean to pay for it.

I was suprised that I enjoyed it more than other MMOs I've played, though.

[skyfire2]

I'm glad if I ever see anyone like yufster in WoW they will get suspended every day. 

[Meowster]

I'm glad if I ever see anyone like yufster in WoW they will get suspended every day. 

...Why? And... what? Are you going to claim you work at Blizzard now or something?

I did, but my trial ran out. And I'm too poor/mean to pay for it. Tongue

I was suprised that I enjoyed it more than other MMOs I've played, though.

Yeah, I tried playing Guild Wars but it seemed really Linear... I've heard it gets a lot better if you progress a bit further than I did, but I don't know... the world isn't as interesting as that of WoW, either....

You should get a subscription again are you going to play when BC comes out at least?

[skyfire2]

I'm glad if I ever see anyone like yufster in WoW they will get suspended every day. 

...Why? And... what? Are you going to claim you work at Blizzard now or something?

If my cousin didn't work there I would have never found out about the game in the first place. Besides, unless you're really dumb enough to give out your forum name you won't have any problem.

[Meowster]

If my cousin didn't work there I would have never found out about the game in the first place. Besides, unless you're really dumb enough to give out your forum name you won't have any problem.

So you're saying you're going to attempt to get your cousin, who apparently 'works at Blizzard', to risk his job to ban someone from World of Warcraft?

You may claim your cousin works at Blizzard, but I can very truthfully say that I work in the games industry and I can tell you now, SkyFire, that's not how things work. Even if your supposed cousin really DID work at Blizzard, and even if he also happened to be a GM, I could have him fired for banning my account. But of course, since your cousin doesn't really work at Blizzard, this will never happen. Besides which, I actually do know people working at Blizzard, as I work within the games industry.

So stop making silly threats, okay? I know better than you, so you're not going to 'scare' me as you obviously intend to.

[vict0r]

Thats a ridiculous threat to come with skyfire And why do you come with these "threats"? Just because she is a nigger-lover?


Joke, for those who did not get it. Sorry if it made me look like a racist jackass, as the intent was only satiring skyfire.

[skyfire2]

If my cousin didn't work there I would have never found out about the game in the first place. Besides, unless you're really dumb enough to give out your forum name you won't have any problem.

So you're saying you're going to attempt to get your cousin, who apparently 'works at Blizzard', to risk his job to ban someone from World of Warcraft?

You may claim your cousin works at Blizzard, but I can very truthfully say that I work in the games industry and I can tell you now, SkyFire, that's not how things work. Even if your supposed cousin really DID work at Blizzard, and even if he also happened to be a GM, I could have him fired for banning my account. But of course, since your cousin doesn't really work at Blizzard, this will never happen. Besides which, I actually do know people working at Blizzard, as I work within the games industry.

So stop making silly threats, okay? I know better than you, so you're not going to 'scare' me as you obviously intend to.

You obviously don't play enough WoW. When you report to a GM, the GM can only suspend (SUSPEND, NOT BAN YOU DIMWIT) someone if the person is harassing other users (like asking stupid questions all the time) and in most cases they give you a warning. Also, I never said my cousin was a GM, dumbass. Even if he did, I woudln't need him to get someone like you suspended if you act the same way on WoW as you do here.

[skyfire2]

Thats a ridiculous threat to come with skyfire And why do you come with these "threats"? Just because she is a nigger-lover?

You better edit your post really quick or else everyone will think you're a racist.

[Domino]

Thats a ridiculous threat to come with skyfire And why do you come with these "threats"? Just because she is a nigger-lover?

oh boy

[vict0r]

It's really not she who act like a total brat here, but you! I think she would be doing just fine in WoW, but I can't imagine anyone getting along with you. You must be hated in school.

And I believe you actually said:

If my cousin didn't work there I would have never found out about the game in the first place.

So in light of your new post, you either say you don't know what WoW is, or you are calling yourself a liar.



And YES, it was a fucking joke...

[Meowster]

If my cousin didn't work there I would have never found out about the game in the first place. Besides, unless you're really dumb enough to give out your forum name you won't have any problem.

Also, I never said my cousin works at blizzard, dumbass.

Make your mind up.

[skyfire2]

And I believe you actually said:

If my cousin didn't work there I would have never found out about the game in the first place.

So in light of your new post, you either say you don't know what WoW is, or you are calling yourself a liar.

Not everyone that works at blizzard is a GM. If they were there would be way too many of them. 

And YES, it was a fucking joke...

I'll be damned if anyone here actually admits that they thought it was funny.

[Pumaman]

Alright, that's enough. If you two want to spend your entire day bickering with each other, take it elsewhere.