Forums

[Ishmael]

Now that you mentioned other forums...

http://eternaltears.info/forum/index.php
This one, being yet very small, as the band has just reunited and are recording a new album, will sooner or later be flooded with people. There are no moderators yet, and there was just an announcement of moderators wanted in there. I'm full of ideas on how to run a forum like that. It's already slipping badly, IMO.

http://www.sonataarctica.info/phpBB2/index.php
This is actually where I got most of my ideas from. No listing topics (like "now playing?") and such, as that forum is well moderated, it's under control. And it will stay under control.

[Potch]

Hmmm... this is an interesting topic.  I thought I would put my two cents in, and maybe get a few questions answered myself...

First of, I don't know how much clout my opinion would even hold here, since I have never made a game.  I did some writing for a game once, but I just don't understand enough about programming to do my own.  I come here because I have a deep love (or addiction) for adventure games, and I have the utmost respect and admiration for those of you that have the talent and the drive to keep adventure gaming alive.  That actually brings me to a question... I read in the General forum rules that you shouldn't post here if you're not a game creator.  Well, does that really mean that I shouldn't post here?  I love these forums, because most of the people are really nice, and I have a lot in common with them.  If I really shouldn't post in here, then I won't anymore.  I don't want to make anyone angry because of that.  I only post in General, Adventure Related talk and chat, and Hints and Tips.  I rarely post in others, although I do post in Completed once in a while to report a bug or tell someone what I thought of their game.

Speaking of the Completed forum.  Someone mentioned that you shouldn't go in there and post a one line comment telling someone that their game was good.  Personally, I don't see what's wrong with that.  I would think that a creator would want to know that someone really liked their game.  But, not being a creator myself, maybe I just don't understand.  I mean, I don't usually post just one lines, but sometimes I am guilty of that.

One final thought... as others have also said, these forums are mild compared to most.  There are so many forums out there that are just so full of junk.  Honestly, I haven't really seen anything that pointless here.  I guess there are some, but sometimes the pointless threads are kind of fun.  It's fun to talk about the music that we listen to and the movies that we like once in a while.   I just really enjoy these forums and the people on them.  And while I may not create games, I have played almost eery single game available here, because I just love them so much.

[Phemar]

Yes,  very interesting, Potch.

Considering that the majority of your posts are of mature content, Potch, I'd say you are fully entitled to post in this forum (more than some of us at least). I would also feel ashamed of any AGS member who discriminated against someone else because he/she has not completed any games. I mean, I can think of a few of the 'main AGSers' here who haven't finished any games, yet most of them are what keep this forum from slipping into the brink of nothingness!

I also fully agree with you on the subject of one-liners in the CGA forum. I, as a creator, would love to know every last person who enjoyed/disliked my game (after you've put all that effort into creating a game, you need at least some praise). But then again, from CJs point of view, perhaps if everyone posted one-liners in the CGA, then bandwidth would skyrocket once again and some forums would have to close.

Another serious concern of mine is the Production forum: There are far too many locked threads! I don't mean in this way the Darth Mandarb should lay more slack on people bending the rules, I mean there has to be SOME way of getting it to peoples heads whether they should be posting or not! It's absolutely ridiculous when you come to think about it!

Anyway, that's just my 573 cents worth of info.

[Pumaman]

I read in the General forum rules that you shouldn't post here if you're not a game creator. Well, does that really mean that I shouldn't post here?

Of course not -- there are several long-standing members who have never completed a game. The intention of saying this is more to put across that posting on the forum is a privilege not a right, and that you earn the privilege by acting in a mature manner and/or making a decent game.

Speaking of the Completed forum. Someone mentioned that you shouldn't go in there and post a one line comment telling someone that their game was good.

I think the comment was referring to the Critics Lounge more than the Completed Games forum. In completed games it's great to get feedback that people like your game; in the Critics Lounge though, comments like "great pic" are useless since the point of the forum is for constructive criticism, not for "I love it" / "I hate it" posts.

One final thought... as others have also said, these forums are mild compared to most. There are so many forums out there that are just so full of junk.

It may be true that these forums are better than many others out there, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to improve the atmosphere more.

[Potch]

Ah Critics Lounge.. gotcha.  Yes.  CL... I get it now.  Sorry, that was my fault.  I have never posted in there, so I didn't even think of that one... where I go completed games from CL is beyond me!  Guess it's right what they say about blondes.....

[Blitzerland]

Another serious concern of mine is the Production forum: There are far too many locked threads! I don't mean in this way the Darth Mandarb should lay more slack on people bending the rules, I mean there has to be SOME way of getting it to peoples heads whether they should be posting or not! It's absolutely ridiculous when you come to think about it!

You really have to admire his endurance. If I had to do what he does, I'd have cracked long before. Despite his best efforts, some fool will always try to introduce himself, post a game with no screenshots or information, or ask for team members.

Poor guy. When I release my game, I'm gonna send that poor chap toÃ,  Nirvana by posting ten screenshots. And a cheap trailer. And a working link.

[LimpingFish]

I hung around these forums for ages (18 months+) before I posted anything.

I guess some people post the minute they join because the want to be involved, even if they have nothing to say.

It's a shame they don't read the rules first, but... :

I don't start many threads because it takes something interesting to make me want to.

Sure, immaturity and flaming bothers me, but that's what moderators are for.

[passer-by]

I guess some people post the minute they join because the want to be involved, even if they have nothing to say.

Or maybe they join because of that very post...
I know guests are allowed to post as well, but it's not the same...

[LimpingFish]

I guess some people post the minute they join because the want to be involved, even if they have nothing to say.

I should have said "...start a thread..."

That would account for at least some of the "stupid" topics...

But then who decides what's stupid and what's not?

[Blackthorne]

Perhaps if one wishes to start a topic in "Games In Production" they have to clear it with a MOD first.  Is that possible?


Bt

[Darth Mandarb]

I think the Games in Production board is fine, really.

There are probably a few things we could do to make it harder to post in there, but it's really not that difficult to moderate as it is.

If a thread breaks the rules, it gets locked.

Any sort of restrictions (other than strongly enforcing the rules) would make it too unfriendly, and that's the last thing I, or any of us I should think, want.

[Phemar]

It may be true that these forums are better than many others out there, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to improve the atmosphere more.

Sure, there is room for improvement in these forums, but we also wouldn't like to turn into Fort Nox, or detention or something.

Any sort of restrictions (other than strongly enforcing the rules)

Enforcing the rules is exactly what I was suggesting. I know this topic has been discussed many times before, but nothing has ever done! All we have is this:

HAVE YOU READ THE FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING?
Seriously, have you?
If your new thread violates the rules, it will be LOCKED or DELETED without warning.

And that, intimidating as it may seem, doesn't clarify what the rules are! Perhaps some people don't know where to find the rules (sight impediments, stupidity etc.), so the don't read them and think to themselves, "Bugger that." Maybe the text should be changed to something like:

HAVE YOU INCLUDED AT LEAST TWO IN-GAME SCREENSHOTS?
And is there at least some storyline description?
Read these rules FIRST!

Just a suggestion.

[InCreator]

... post a game with no screenshots or information...

What does this "post a game" means?
What's a game without screens and info? Nothing.
so, ...post nothing...
And idea for game is too small reason to even post it to CL ...where CL residents usually just ignore this or give directions outta there.

Any sort of restrictions (other than strongly enforcing the rules) would make it too unfriendly

Well, "Don't post nothing!" still sounds like a rule everyone should naturally obey, without any exceptions...

[Ishmael]

HAVE YOU READ THE FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING?
Seriously, have you?
If your new thread violates the rules, it will be LOCKED or DELETED without warning.

And that, intimidating as it may seem, doesn't clarify what the rules are! Perhaps some people don't know where to find the rules (sight impediments, stupidity etc.), so the don't read them and think to themselves, "Bugger that." Maybe the text should be changed to something like:

HAVE YOU INCLUDED AT LEAST TWO IN-GAME SCREENSHOTS?
And is there at least some storyline description?
Read these rules FIRST!

Just a suggestion.

Why not just link the word "rules" to the thread, instead of changing what already is good?

And besides, IMO, if you're unable to read a sticky thread that clearly says "RULES" in the title, you shouldn't be posting anything.

And yes, the GIP board is extremely well moderated.

[Phemar]

And besides, IMO, if you're unable to read a sticky thread that clearly says "RULES" in the title, you shouldn't be posting anything.

I hold that opinion too, Ishmael, but the problem is this: People who DON'T read the rules still have the ABILITY to post! Even though they have not read it, they can still post! You see?

[Babar]

Guess I'll just chip in with something here. I never read the rules. I never read the huge disclaimer/whatever it is that you have to read to be able to continue with installing a game. I never read the "Read Me First" that comes stuck behind the manual of games. Dunno why, it just seems pointless. I guess that is the wrong attitude, but that is how I (and probably a lot others) feel. Reading huge texts on a bright screen (or in tiny font, as the case with paper) just gives me a headache.

I rarely ever read the BFAQ before posting a question (I have although, read through it without any question in mind, just for the heck of it when I was bored). I did spend A LOT of time lurking when I newly came here though. At first I STILL made some mistakes. At the beginning I thought of each section of the forums as a whole separate world. I just visited Beginner's Tech, and Adventure Game forums.

That is why I first posted asking for tutorials in the Adventure Game Chat forum. Necro kindly informed me that there is a huge thread in the Critic's Lounge to help me. That got me relapsed into another huge lurking bout. Aside from that, I don't think I made any major mistakes.

Point is, not everyone reads the rules. I think Zor's suggested message is the best. Nice, short and easily understood, without going through lists of rules.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Babar, it's understandable to feel like you do. But your bottom line, "Point is: not everyone reads the rules", is not the attitude we want to encourage anywhere. In your case, you lurked so you got a feel for what you could ask. In it's way, that's as good as reading a FAQ, so it's not even the point - you bothered to lurk so you could learn the rules. I'm sure we don't care if you read the rules if you bother to learn them.

But the rules are there for a reason. Heck, I remember a guy who came (with a huge sig, too) who insisted he would NOT read the AGS manual. And he kept asking all these BASIC questions. That's what I, and I guess everyone else, has a gripe against.

Point is, everybody SHOULD read the rules, that's why they're there and clearly visible. If some people don't but, like you, lurk until they learn, that's as good as. If they are just stubburn about it, lock their threads until they learn, if ever.

[Phemar]

Babar, it's understandable to feel like you do. But your bottom line, "Point is: not everyone reads the rules", is not the attitude we want to encourage anywhere.

Whether it's the attitude you want to encourage or not, it's the truth. The plain and simple truth, Rui, Ishmael and anyone else out there.
You would like to encourage that atmosphere, but how is anyone who just signs up and starts posting going to know that if we don't make sure that they know? If you want to encourage lurking, then perhaps a timer should be set on new accounts making the holder only able to post after say, a 7 day period. This may also discourage alter-egos.

Understand where I'm coming from; I would absolutely love to trust and believe that every newbie who signs up knows our customs and knows exactly how to post, but the fact is they don't. We need to tell them how to do things and make sure that they know how to do things.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

We do tell them how to do things. It's in the rules. People should read them. It's a basic principle. If people don't read them, how are these boards supposed to work? Anarchy?

I say again, all in all I think things are being pretty well taken care of at the mo. The n00bs we see are dealt with in such a way (ignored, laughed at or instructed, depending on who's doing the replying) that they either go away or try to reform (Flukeblake is an example of the latter, poop is an example of the former, and there are many more, thank God). Useless threads are locked. The rules are very clear. I don't think there IS any more we can do, so we should just... you know, business as usual.

[Evil]

We could always write in the rules above the start thread thing, "Being as you have read the rules click here instead of the post button." Then change the post button to load the rules page or something.