Ive just had to stop playing Frank the Farmhand as i found it quite offensive. To have to watch cut scenes of Klu Klux Klan members trying to burn a boy on the steak and having the word 'nigger' said every few scenes i think that it should not just come with a language warning (as pointed out on ags games site,) but with a racism warning also!
The Game isn't racist, it may depict racist themes but the maker of the game isn't Saying that black people are inferior or the like. He's depicting the KKK and that's most probably what the KKK are like, if you find it offensive then you should contact the maker but nobody is forcing you to play it. I've seen films about the Civil rights Movement it had Black people getting beaten up and Verbally abused, but it's not racist it's talking about a racist issue, Would you refuse to watch that?
he shouldnt contact the maker, he should just not play it.
I was just trying to be diplomatic....
Bollocks to that. Go picket 'Birth of a Nation', you tree-hugging hippy!
Hippiiiiies >_<
Mephistophilis makes an excellent point. Surely you can tell the difference between depicting racism and -being- racist. What do you think of history books that talk about the Nazi regime?
To those of you who don't seem to of read my text properly, I suggest you go back and re read, as you'll see that I say the game should come with a ‘racism warning' noting that there is racism in the game (unless you are going to try and find an argument in the fact that watching a scene of KKK trying to burn a black boy, isn't showing a racist scene ?!?!?) I didn't say the author was racist (again, for those of you who seem to have trouble deciphering sentences,) I merely said I found the racist scenes offensive. It's just purely my opinion.
To the comment made by DGMcphee *Sigh* I thought this forum was for over 16 year olds ? Grow up, and if you have nothing constructive to say, don't reply to my posts â€" unintelligent remarks bore me.
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 15:36:09
To those of you who don’t seem to of read my text properly, I suggest you go back and re read, as you’ll see that I say the game should come with a ‘racism warning’ noting that there is racism in the game (unless you are going to try and find an argument in the fact that watching a scene of KKK trying to burn a black boy, isn’t showing a racist scene ?!?!?) I didn’t say the author was racist (again, for those of you who seem to have trouble deciphering sentences,) I merely said I found the racist scenes offensive. It’s just purely my opinion.
If that's your point of you then I suggest you change your topic. Although topics are an indication of the message within, I think, "Frank the farmhand -racist" would tend to be read as "Frank the Farmhand is racist". Maybe "Frank the farmhand -racism warning" or "Frank the farmhand contains racism" would be better.
Quote
To the comment made by DGMcphee *Sigh* I thought this forum was for over 16 year olds ? Grow up, and if you have nothing constructive to say, don’t reply to my posts – unintelligent remarks bore me.
#1. The forum isn't for over 16 year olds, it's just a recommended maturity level.
#2. DG is well past that age.
#3. The fact that he has a sense of humour doesn't indicate low maturity ^_^
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 15:36:09
To those of you who don't seem to of read my text properly, I suggest you go back and re read, as you'll see that I say the game should come with a ‘racism warning' noting that there is racism in the game (unless you are going to try and find an argument in the fact that watching a scene of KKK trying to burn a black boy, isn't showing a racist scene ?!?!?) I didn't say the author was racist (again, for those of you who seem to have trouble deciphering sentences,) I merely said I found the racist scenes offensive. It's just purely my opinion.
To the comment made by DGMcphee *Sigh* I thought this forum was for over 16 year olds ? Grow up, and if you have nothing constructive to say, don't reply to my posts â€" unintelligent remarks bore me.
First off all, Frank the Farmhand is about as racist as Stevie Wonder converting to Buddhism.
Secondly, it's an amatuer computer game that portrays a KKK burning. That doesn't mean that the scene is racially offensive or the game is racially offensive. You haven't even considered thingys like context or authoritorial intent. I mean, it's like claiming O Brother Where Art Thou is racially offensive cause it has a KKK scene.
Thirdly, if you don't like my unintelligent comments, piss off. You've only been here for, what? A whole day? And already you're making misguided comments about a game and me. Hell, there are people who have been picketing a movie theatre for the last week because it was going to play 'Birth of a Nation' (which contains ACTUAL racially offensive scenes). They're doing something that seems a little more important. Meanwhile, you are wasting your life away picketing a game that's a VERY minor blip on Professor McSmartyBrain's Racist-o-meter.
Finally, go refill your crack-pipe, hippy!
Perhaps the game should have blurry boxes over the clan members so we can't really see them?Ã, I mean, we wouldn't want to offend anybody right?
Or maybe the word nigger should be spelled ni&*er just so it doesn't actually say nigger.Ã, God forbid!!!
I think the game should be remade ... and instead of the kkk burning the little boy, they could befriend him and give him some flowers and they could all sing bible songs.Ã, That's how it would really happen you know?
I'm starting the official boycott of 'Frank The Farmhand' ... that racist twat pig!!!!
*Laughs at DGMcphee* No, no you're SOOOOOO right, the word 'nigger' isnt racist at all! Why are you getting so worked up - have you no life ?
My opinion is that Frank The Farmhand has racist scenes in - deal with it. I have better things to do than have verbal duelings with someone who cant even have a mature conversation and reverts to name calling. Go back to playschool. *Laughs again*
Darth:
Maybe they should digitally edit all weapons into walkie-talkies too.
And instead of 'nigger', they should say 'African-Americans who weren't appreciated at one point in history'.
flinnt:
I'm not getting worked up. You're the one going nuts whenever you hear the word 'nigger'.
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 16:29:29
My opinion is that Frank The Farmhand has racist scenes in - deal with it.
Frank the Farmhand has racist scenes in it - deal with it.
I'm not denying your opinion, but may I ask why you find it offensive?
Y'see it is generally accepted that the KKK were racists. They were more famous for that than they were for......their beautiful singing voices. It is historically accurate, & this is what thye were like. Nothing we can change about it.
If you found a book containing information about the KKK, would you be offended because it shows people being racist?
By that logic, all knowledge of the KKK, or even the Nazis, or Stalin, should be erased IMMEDIATELY!
In fact, the hero of the game specifially tries to prevent the burning, & therefore trying to prevent racism, & as I remember the KKK are not portrayed as the most intelligent bunch anyway.
Just a few things to think about.
EDIT: And don't make DG angry.....you wouldn't like him when he's angry.....
I wonder what Comedy Central's top comedian has to say?
(http://www.ferris.edu/news/jimcrow/caricature/pryor.jpg)
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 11:55:32
Ive just had to stop playing Frank the Farmhand as i found it quite offensive. To have to watch cut scenes of Klu Klux Klan members trying to burn a boy on the steak and having the word 'nigger' said every few scenes i think that it should not just come with a language warning (as pointed out on ags games site,) but with a racism warning also!
I don't think it should come with a racist warning ... but perhaps a 'mature content' warning.Ã, But then again, it's just an amatuer (underground) type game ... why bother?
Although, I must say, if I had to be burned ... I wouldn't mind it being on a steak. Ã, As long as there was a good steak sauce (like A-1) and maybe a baked potato (with sour cream and bacon - hell ... if I'm being burned on the steak why not? Ã, Who cares about cholesterol?!)
If you think DG's being so immature then ignore him. Respond to MY post! I made a pretty god damn valid point. The way I see it is this.
Your topic seems to quite blatantly say that you think the game is racist. That's just the way it sounds and so that's why people get the impression that that's your opinion.
You DON'T think the game is racist, you just think there are scenes of racism in there, and you wanted a warning that you were going to be subjected to this sort of thing before playing the game. Yes? Yes.
What I'm saying is that to avoid this confusion - change your topic to something clearer, as I suggested above.
Also, it's not a good idea to just start insulting people in a forum you're completely new to. You have no idea about what the people you're speaking to are really like, or the context of what they're saying, plus it's not going to make you very popular. People have a good point there.
If people want to make the comment that they think it's somewhat silly to be offended by scenes of racism, that's also fine - that's basically discussing your topic with their own opinions.
On a personal note, the thing that I find distasteful are comments like, "*sigh*" and "so-and-so bore me" and "*Laughs*" because it sounds very defensive and arrogant (in a bad arrogant kind of way). There's no need to flaunt your supposed maturity like that.
*Throws head back and laughs heartily while walking away waving a hand dismissingly*
"It amuses me so."
Darth - Damn, beat me to that steak comment. ^_-
Flinnt, are you a black american? Because if not, I think this is a moot point and you are just making an uproar for no reason.
This is not something that should be protested, we should never rewrite history, no matter how dark it is. It's our darkest mistakes and how we learn from them that makes our country so great. The KKK, the Black Panther movement, and various other things like that may have been very ill thought-out and stupid, but they happened and it's just something you have to accept.
Actually, I even rank Birth of a Nation as one of the most important films of all time. Not because of the racism (I've seen it, and the racism in it is actually really ridiculous) but because it was the first full-length film created. It is actually a pretty accurate portrayal of the South's emotions during postbellum years. It's actually educational to a point.
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 15:36:09
To those of you who don't seem to of read my text properly, I suggest you go back and re read, as you'll see that I say the game should come with a ‘racism warning' noting that there is racism in the game (unless you are going to try and find an argument in the fact that watching a scene of KKK trying to burn a black boy, isn't showing a racist scene ?!?!?) I didn't say the author was racist (again, for those of you who seem to have trouble deciphering sentences,) I merely said I found the racist scenes offensive. It's just purely my opinion.
To the comment made by DGMcphee *Sigh* I thought this forum was for over 16 year olds ? Grow up, and if you have nothing constructive to say, don't reply to my posts â€" unintelligent remarks bore me.
I don't post much on these boards, other than to get hints, but this was something I felt I had to address. Being a person who has fought against racism and the n-word (I refuse to even type it) for many years, you would think that I would find this game offensive. But, in fact, I do not. This my only be an underground adventure game, but the poignancy of the KKK scene is something real. We should not be censored to the truth. The KKK has committed such attrocities on the human race, that is important to show it everyone to show just how wrong they are. In reality, the scene was very true. Things like that really happen. The characters in the scene are in fact racist. But the scene is true to life. If the game was saying something bad about black people, then I would say... yes. Put a racist warning on it. But it is not. It is depicting a very true, and terrible scene. We can't shelter ourselves from the truth.
Another point to consider: I am against racism in any form, but I think sometimes people take the censorship of it way to far. It is people like Flinnt that are the reason some of the greatest films of all time are banned. Take for example Walt Disney's Song of the South. That film has some of the most memorable characters ever created and contains stories the people of all ages can learn from. LIke Uncle Remus says. "Those who can't learn from a tale about critters, just don't have a ear for listenin'" Our children are sheltered from reading about Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby, and seeing Uncle Remus sing Zip A Dee Doo Da. Why? Because someone decided the film was racist, due to the fact that some of the characters speak in the dialect of the slaves in the south. That's the way the people spoke back then. There is nothing wrong with it. And yet the film is banned, and Disney won't release it. I was actually able to see a copy of the film for the first time in about 20 years, about three months ago. Someone ordered a bootlegged copy from Europe and sent it to my dad. There was nothing objective in it at all.
When we start sheltering ourselves from the truth, this is what happens. There is no way to draw the line. We would just lose too much.
Let's clear up the confusion. The context of using the phrase "Racist Scenes" is a term too broad and I think that by default it implies that the game itself is supporting race discrimination; that the scenes are in fact racists against others. A more proper way to say this would be "Scenes depicting racism". This is what Flinnt meant.
I checked in the games database, and the games does warn about mild violence. I haven't played the game myself, but I guess as soon as I get home (at work right now) I'll take a look at it to see what the whole commotion is.
Topics like racism are things that vary from country to country. Someone from any country might find things offensive in another coutnry if they don't understand that other's countries depictions of things.
If you didn't like the game, just throw it in your Window$ Recycling Bin and empty it. The End. :P
I'm sorry, this thread is being moved.
I agree the game should have some sort of content warning. Even though 12 year olds play Vice City I'm not one for allowing minors to play games with content unsuitable for them.
Now, this may be history, and it may not be racist - I agree. I haven't played the game so I don't know how graphic the scene is, but you have to remember that younger people feed on stuff like this. I have nothing against telling the truth to younger people, but at the same time as a once upon a time youth worker, I still don't agree with subjecting younger kids to graphic violence.
A game with people being burnt on the stake would easily grant a 15+ rating if it was a commercial game. Just because it's "independant" or "amatuer" doesn't mean it needs no rating.
When reading this, bear in mind that I
A) Haven't played Frank the Farmhand
B) am stoopid
The depiction of rascism should merit a warning...IF it is in the context of 'adult theme'.
I mean, a 'drugs arn't cool' public information video isn't given a 15 certificate for 'Frequent moderate drug references' but a movie where people take recreational drugs probably should since it's a theme that some children might not be able to handle.
But I do agree with anyone about this.
Flinnt, you are overreacting. This game is obviously not rascist, in fact, seem to be against it, which is the same reason you were offended...
...Or something...
well said, potch!
I agree that there probably should be a warning about it, just for one reason.
If I had a young kid I wouldn't have a problem with him/her playing it, but I'd like to be aware of that this stuff was in it, so I could explain to them exactly what's going on.
It's important that kids learn about the truths of the world, so they aren't sheltered, whiney, ignorant brats, but it's important that they learn it the right way.
And that's by me teaching them.
Bitches.
Racism is not a crime....
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 16:29:29
*Laughs at DGMcphee*
flinnt, you started by making a sensible suggestion that a game featuring racist characters should have a warning. Entering into a slanging match with DG Macphee has only made your argument look silly.
Also,
Quote from: Potch on Thu 12/08/2004 17:43:17
Take for example Walt Disney's Song of the South...
There is nothing wrong with it. And yet the film is banned
I had no idea that film was banned! I saw part of it on TV a couple of days ago (BBC gor' bless). Weren't you concerned by the rose tinted portrayal of the master-servant/white-black relations Potch? Perhaps if I'd seen the whole film I would have felt differently.
I can see the point put forward here, and therefore I have amended the game description to include the text "WARNING: This game deals with racist themes."
I hope that solves the issue for everybody.
Quote
Racism is not a crime....
It certainly is LostTraveler, what exactly are you trying to say?
First -
Who gives a fuck?
Second -
How in the hell can anyone be offended by a computer game?
"Oh mom! A bad computer game made me cry showing weird guys in robes saying "niger"! bwaaaah!11!"
No respect!
Weak.Ã, >:(
First -
Everyone who posted in this thread, evidently.
Second -
Just because something may not offend you, doesn't mean that it isn't important to other people.
QuoteWhy are you getting so worked up - have you no life ?
OMG! Zing!
You were close to having a case, but then you blew it with the worst chatroom-nerd retort there is.
And for the debate: yes, racism is a crime, depicting it isn't.
People have the right to be upset about it without getting mocked, but that doesn't mean they can go around making demands and yell about it
Well, let's say then that I feel offended when someone starts picking (without considerable or at least serious enough - reason) on a nice thing made for people to enjoy, such as an AGS game, which - in this case, was really good and well made.
This didn't sound like putting up a problem and feeling worried about it, with need to discuss it - but more like a picking a fight for no particular reason.
Game didn't give any ratings to right and wrong. It didn't praise racism. Didn't push any kids to join KKK. It just had elements of it, like million things in everyday life has -- such as history book, random WWII game or movie. Or shall I stop taking history lessons, because of my incredibly fragile and weak easily-offendable nerve system?
Hey, maybe we cancel schools, movies, etc?
I think that treating minorities like they were bunch of crying babies from whom we have to hide every sharp object, censor every hardest word and pat their backs all the time without asking if they care about it really, is bigger discriminating than racism itsself.
If someone calls me names I don't like, i punch him into face! Are black/yellow/whatever people worse? Less human than me? Can't handle it by themselves?
Well - I don't think so. Do YOU? Then you're a racist.
Hah.
So I step onto the side of "don't like? Don't play then!" crowd from now on.
Hm.
And agree with Andail.
I don't understand what you're arguing for. All that the original request was for was a warning to say that the game contained this sort of material, so that people have the ability to do just what you're saying - not play it if they don't like it.
It seems your angry about something else and just choosing this thread to project in InCreator
I don't see anyone "treating minorities like they were a bunch of crying babies" I just see a guy asking if a warning can be added to a game.
He also said nothing about censoring the game... Where are you getting this from?
and sutebi:
"Flinnt, are you a black american? Because if not, I think this is a moot point and you are just making an uproar for no reason."
Yea I agree, one time I saw a woman being accosted by some men after a concert, they kept grabbing her and she kept screaming for help... Then I read in the news the next day that she was raped and left for dead. No WAY was I going to help her since I'm not a woman... I secretly think that all the white people against racism and slavery are really black people wearing make up to look white! Otherwise they shouldn't care at all since it doesn't effect them at all!
Rascism is a fact of life, live with it. I dont want to make a big long post that peopl take wrong so I wrote a rhyme.
Human nature is to offend
Human nature you cannot mend
I disagree:
The idea of human nature is something of a construct
The idea that it's concrete often goes unchallenged
Poems don't have to rhyme.
You cannot challenge something that cannot be seen.
We have been into space, the ocean, yet we cannot begin to pry into the human mind. Only then can one comprehend the untouchable.
Quote from: LostTraveler on Fri 13/08/2004 01:35:00
You cannot challenge something that cannot be seen.
We have been into space, the ocean, yet we cannot begin to pry into the human mind. Only then can one comprehend the untouchable.
Yet you think you understand it, above us mere mortals.
Racism isn't ingrained in our minds at birth and it shouldn't be tolerated just because there will always be racists. I have news for you; there will also always be murderers, rapists, and thieves, and your broken philosophy doesn't make that any less a travesty.
Children are modelled after their parents, If there parents are rascist so they are so technicly it is ingrained at birth. The earliest humans knew how to kill, thats not evolution, its instinct.
Holy hell, I could have sworn this argument was over.
Maybe we should all just agree that the whole FtF thing was solved, and listen to some MC Hammer. Seriously, just try it - he solves all of life's problems.
This is the way we roll, we roll...
Quote from: LostTraveler on Fri 13/08/2004 02:24:49
Children are modelled after their parents, If there parents are rascist so they are so technicly it is ingrained at birth. The earliest humans knew how to kill, thats not evolution, its instinct.
No, technically it would be a learned trait, and at birth you are completely ignorant of racism for (what should be) obvious reasons. Also, do you consider that some children rebel? What about the children who know better than believe everything their parents tell them?
Why rebel when its all you know?
Quote from: LostTraveler on Fri 13/08/2004 03:35:31
Why rebel when its all you know?
Uh, so you're not familiar with the concept of teenagers rebelling? Logic and reasoning make people rebel. Sometimes the logic and reasoning isn't so good, but it happens. Also, hate or disagreement make people rebel. For instance, I disagree with my mothers racism. I rebelled by openly and honestly disagreeing with her any time she brought that up, despite the constant, "Respect your mother, no matter what," BS.
It's not all anyone knows. At some point they're going to be presented with an opposing view, you can't say racists never ever hear anyone say that racism is wrong and why. Are you really so naive to think humans have no free will whatsoever? Honestly, I could see coming to that conclusion with the state of America today, but you should know better.
So, what else do you have that you think invalidates free will?
I have a free will, but look at it through my eyes. Im from Boston, I moved to the mountains of north carolina. There is still confedderate flags everywhere in this town. I have lived here 6 years, The kids that where racist in elementry school still are in highschool. Nothing changed around here.
The whole rebelling thing is getting off-track from the original argument. But nevertheless...
My point of view is simple: Frank The Farmhand doesn't need a racial warning for depicting such violence. Why? Because it's depicting it. It's not saying, "Hey, dudes! Please your good klan buddies by setting fire to the nearest non-white person!"
If you put a warning on it, then you might as well put warning on films like O Brother Where Art Thou, American History X, Mississippi Burning, and In The Heat of the Night. And if you slap a warning on In The Heat of The Night, then you're going to have a very pissed-off Sidney Poiter:
(http://www.thegoldenyears.org/sidney_poitier.jpg)
Don't fuck with MISTER Tibbs!
In The Heat of The Night was made to be shocking in a period where racial tensions where pretty high. To slap a racial warning on it decreases the message behind it.
Likewise, with Frank The Farmhand. It's a satirical game. The website's plot even says: "A conspiracy involving the american president, religious fanatics, middle-eastern terrorists and some surfdudes. He will travel around the world trying desperately to save both his neck and the world itself." It basically functions the same way as 'O Brother Where Art Thou?'. To slap a warning on it decreases the value of the game. You might as well just play "The VIllage of Happy Nice People Where Nothing Goes Wrong Ever". But trust me, it's a shitty game.
That is why I think if you're so, so offended by the racial depictions, you need to refill your beer-bong.
Um... there... is... a warning on all those movies...
Quote from: LostTraveler on Fri 13/08/2004 04:40:29
I have a free will, but look at it through my eyes. Im from Boston, I moved to the mountains of north carolina. There is still confedderate flags everywhere in this town. I have lived here 6 years, The kids that where racist in elementry school still are in highschool. Nothing changed around here.
Yes, so naturally this idealism you adapt applies to the whole world because you are in a shithole? You should be telling me you know better because you're from Boston.
I grew up in Porum, Oklahoma. Don't think I didn't see confederate flags flying in front of a trailer house. When I was a baby and my parents moved into that town there was a cross burning on the front lawn of a black family who'd just moved there. When the first black teacher came she was disrespected almost worse than any other teacher that was there. Yet somehow, I grew up in this place never knowing anything else, and I'm not a racist. Imagine that. Common sense and a willingness to be different and unaccepted prevailed.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 13/08/2004 04:57:44
Um... there... is... a warning on all those movies...
I never saw a racial warning on any of those movies. If you're refering to film classifications (G, PG-13, R, etc) yes they are warnings but there're not warning audiences on the depictions of racism.
For example, American History X was rated R by the MPAA for graphic brutal violence including rape, pervasive language, strong sexuality and nudity.
O Brother was rated PG-13 for some violence and language.
According to IMDB, In The Heat of the Night was "approved" by "suggested for Mature Audiences".
None of the films feature warnings at the start of the films over "racial depictions". As for as I'm aware, the MPAA does not rate films over racial depictions.
The reason I bring this up is because this is what flinnt wants for Frank The Farmhand -- a warning on the racial depicitions in the film.
And such a warning is stupid for reasons we've explained previously in this thread.
If Flinnt is an adult, why doesn't he/she just suck it up instead of whine about it then? Ignoring things that are offensive rather than whining about them is the more mature solution, in my opinion. I could be wrong, but it seems that you just wanted something to cry about.
I've been silently watching this thread and I am taking some conclussions I'd like to expose (maybe opening a new thread? Time will say...).
Note: Some of the points can't be really directly related to this very thread.
I think that newbies see how mature this forums are, and they want to participate, become quickly an actual forum member. They post something with the confidence that we won't over react, but sometimes that happens.
Let me explain myself... When I was in mittens 2003 someone (Helm, I think...) said in some moment "I loved Pleughburgh in spite of their poor graphics... After a short time playing, that graphics fit in the atmosphere". Chrille was there and he was not molested in any way, because he examined the whole sentence and he'd probably agree with the stalement. Even if two oldies don't agree, they tend to avoid fight.
But that does not happen with newbies, I think they don't want to offend us, when they say something bad about an oldie, or a classic AGS game... I think they just want to express their feelings with the same freedom we do. It was like when Phil Roberts said that there were better engines for what he was attempting... He didn't actually sais anything wrong, in fact, he didn't said "AGS is not the best engine", just that it was not the best for his project. But that made us very angry. (That's just an example... For the way he posted, I think that Phil was one of those professional mockers who like to spoil nice forums like this).
IMHO Flyint was trying to start one more of those millions of threads we see here, where we discuss and express our opinions, but it has gone wild too early. My advise is (With the special perspective that the distance gives) is to take the posts made by newbies with a lot of care. The trick is to read them trying to think positively and thinking that they're not justing to mock us. Also, for the newbies, please go slowly, and do not answer with anger if the thread does not go as you expected... With that, you could spoil a nice AGS career before starting.
I think that's all... ;)
Quote from: flinnt on Thu 12/08/2004 15:36:09
unintelligent remarks bore me.
Sigh. You must bore yourself, often.
Bt
Yes blackthrone... that was totally necessary to post... you're very witty and aren't just adding fuel to any fire...
and by that I mean
was that totally necessary to post? do you just want to add fuel to the fire?
Well, the game DOES contain certain amount of racism.
Pretty courageous amount, considered to this - IMO idiotic - minefield-like world we have today.
But EVEN if such a minor thing annoyed me, I'd sent an e-mail to game's creator and nicely asked him to place warning into readme.txt file or into intro sequence, instead of trying to warn whole world by myself, risking to spread bad word about the game. Someone OTHER's game.
Morale of story is:
1) Be careful with making your games
2) Don't be a hippy
What's with this sudden hippie ranting?
Since when did hippies become reactionary and prudent?
Sometimes I wish less people could share their two cents in threads like this one
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 13/08/2004 16:43:33
Yes blackthrone... that was totally necessary to post... you're very witty and aren't just adding fuel to any fire...
and by that I mean
was that totally necessary to post? do you just want to add fuel to the fire?
Sorry. I was being "ironical", with the whole discussion of using "sigh". My bad!
Bt
Meaning that you actually think it's a fascinating and worthwhile discussion?
Well, if anything, I'll bet a whole lot more people have downloaded and played Frank the Farmhand in the past couple of days...
Negative publicity is still publicity.
The actual creator of the game, one 'fovmester' (I think) doesn't seem to browse the main forums often anyway, & therefore won't have even noticed all the controversy, but Grund is right, remember what happened when there was so much discussion about Flashbax?
And sorry if I sound like I'm repeating said points here:
But it does seem as if a lot of people have missed the point a little. Surely it is a good idea for at least a warning on something like this, so that people who could possibly be offended can steer clear of it.
While I do not find the content offensive, & do not see why anyone would, that doesn't mean it is entirely unoffensive.....if you see what I mean. "Different strokes" for different folks, n all.
/me wonders what that show would teach us on the issue...
Wow, three pages of anger and confusion.
You guys need to calm down. All of you.
I think the first post was just widely misunderstood.
I can see that Frank the Farmhand certainly deserves a warning of some kind. It's not racist but it depicts scenes of racism in the form of violence. Therefore, in my opinion, it deserves a Violence Warning. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily mean my opinion is RIGHT. It's certainly arguable. I can certainly see that some people might like to avoid even racist depictions. I for one don't care, but again, I see that other's might. Just because I am comfortable with it doesn't mean everybody is.
Flinnt may have over reacted but so did a lot of other people. I also get the feeling a lot of people are only against Flinnt because that's the direction the bandwagon is rolling...
I haven't played the game (downloading now), but didn't someone say that it's the job of the player to stop the burning? Does that mean that the kid is not in fact burned on the stake, and the game only shows the threat of it?
If that's right, I don't see how there's any call for a warning at all. I can understand why people would want a warning for something that is offensive, but not for the depiction of something that is offensive. If I created a story about a guy who swindles old grannies, refuses to pay child support, and smokes in public places, would it require a "WARNING: This game contains scenes of bastardry" label?
Actually, thinking about it I have to say "WARNING" is a bit strong, so I've changed it to "NOTE".
Quote from: Andail on Fri 13/08/2004 18:34:44
What's with this sudden hippie ranting?
Since when did hippies become reactionary and prudent?
Sometimes I wish less people could share their two cents in threads like this one
The hippie thing was just a silly joke I started. Don't worry, I don't hate hippies (Some of my best friends are hippies), and I'm sure no one else here hates them.
They also make top-notch brownies!
Hello!
I finally browsed the General Discussion forum and what do I see? Four pages of lovely discussion over my little game! I guess most of you guessed that this was something I wanted when I made the game as it is: To be provocative and see how people would react. Let me explain:
Firstly I must react to what flinnt're saying, that
QuoteIve just had to stop playing Frank the Farmhand as i found it quite offensive. To have to watch cut scenes of Klu Klux Klan members trying to burn a boy on the steak and having the word 'nigger' said every few scenes i think that it should not just come with a language warning (as pointed out on ags games site,) but with a racism warning also!
.
Well, first of all I must say that I don't understand the magnitude of your reaction. I'm not exactly portraying the racists as heroes. They're actually supposed to be stupid inbread illiterates who unjustly blame the black guy for something they're all afraid of. And this has happened so many times in history it's an indeniable fact that racists do so. (I.e. Nazi Germany and 19th century US).
Besides, nothing much racist happens except for the mouthlashing. The black kid doesn't get burned. And he definately doesn't get beaten up or anything.
I'm only trying to make a statement: Racists are scared. And they're scared because they don't understand the blacks. And they don't understand them because they haven't been educated about them (or spent time with them for that matter).
I've gotten some reaction to why the main character (Frank) treat Ben (the black guy) so badly in the beginning of the game. Those of you who've played the game knows what I'm talking about. He does what you often do in adventuregames; you use other people for higher goals. Had Ben been white, very few would have raised an eyebrow. Therefore I wanted to show that you can make fun of black people in games without it having to be racism. Frank treats Ben bad, but then saves his life because Ben's such a good friend.
Lastly I want say that I don't think it's necessary for Frank the Farmhand to have a warning (or even a note) about its content. Like so many have pointed out in this topic I must say that the racist themes in the game are not very grave. There's no racist violence, and the strong language has already been rated.
Potch said it best:
QuoteBeing a person who has fought against racism and the n-word (I refuse to even type it) for many years, you would think that I would find this game offensive. But, in fact, I do not. /.../ We should not be censored to the truth. The KKK has committed such attrocities on the human race, that is important to show it everyone to show just how wrong they are. In reality, the scene was very true. Things like that really happen. The characters in the scene are in fact racist. But the scene is true to life. If the game was saying something bad about black people, then I would say... yes. Put a racist warning on it. But it is not. It is depicting a very true, and terrible scene. We can't shelter ourselves from the truth.
Another point to consider: I am against racism in any form, but I think sometimes people take the censorship of it way to far. /../
When we start sheltering ourselves from the truth, this is what happens. There is no way to draw the line. We would just lose too much.
I would like to ask Chris to remove the note from the game description if he feels that he can. I agree the game's provocative, but a warning like that could make people miss a game that they could find both entertaining and lecturing.