I've been working at a restaurant for a while now, and something happened the other day that has really got me thinking. Most of the waiters and waitresses are in the 16-20 age range, and so this shouldn't be surprising.
Now, I didn't see this happen, but I saw the aftermath. Apparently, one of the co-workers called one of the waiters gay, either as a joke or meant as an insult. (Not really sure, as I didn't see it happen.) Upon being called gay, he responded furiously, "Don't talk to me you stupid bitch," out-front where customers could hear.
A little while later, he was back in the kitchen and the manager was scolding him about saying something like that in front of customers. All the waiter could respond with was, "But I'm not gay." Even though that was not relevant to the talk he was having with the manager.
I have wondered for a long time why being called gay is such a terrible blow, especially to adolescent males. But they use it as an insult ALL the time, and to them, it seems to suggest that you're less of a male if you're gay, or at least that's what I've assumed they think. Either way, listening to them talk is a constant stream of "Faggot," "Gay," and "Queer."
What potential do they see in that to be an insult? And if it's such a terrible thing, why do they dwell on it?
It's a threat to my ability to find a mate if my potential mates think I'm only interested in men.
I really don't know. I say it quite a bit myself. I don't ever get offended by someone using the 'gay' insult on me, because I either know they are joking, or because I know I'm not gay so who the hell cares.
Sometimes when it's used, it can be uncomfortable though. Like when you're in a unfamiliar crowd and you don't want your initial appearance to be damaged, while the person who said the gay insult becomes to appear more dominant or as the alpha male. I kid you not. lol
Also as shbaz stated, it can possibly destroy any chance of the opposite sex finding any interest in you. Unless you're female and are being called a lesbian, then in most cases, the opposite sex will find you more interesting. Not so much for me, but I know lots of guys who sometimes do find lesbians or bisexuals more appealing.
I have only one explanation for this:
Rotten society full of shit :-X
Almost all people will react like that when you call them gay. Don't ask why. It's unexplainable. It's like racism. No point.
If someone called me gay, I would say something like "oh yeah, I've always found you sexy, man!". It's really dumb to call someone a gay. It's equal to calling him a black/yellow anything.
It's just one of the revolting sides of modern society, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: Raggit on Sat 05/04/2008 19:32:04
I have wondered for a long time why being called gay is such a terrible blow, especially to adolescent males.
In your adolescence you're still searching for your sexual identity, so I guess it's insecurity that makes you real touchy about being called gay. And I know there are men who are scared about being reduced to a piece of meat by other men, but they're pretty much all idiots.
As for the hostility towards gay people, I haven't a clue. It's probably a cultural thing (young people see their friends / family making fun of homosexuals so they don't want to be gay because they don't want to be made fun of).
Yep. I never quite understood that part myself.
Where I live, most common insults involve disease - which is nasty, but then these are insults we're talking about. So then at some point I found myself in the US, where apparently the worst insult you can give to a male student is calling him a girl.
Now I don't know about the rest of you, but personally I'd find girls much more pleasant than such things as cancer, typhus, cholera and smallpox...
QuoteWhere I live, most common insults involve disease
What kinds of things do they say? "Andrew has cancer!" or "Get away from me smallpox carrier" Weird, I've never heard of that.
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Sat 05/04/2008 22:54:54
What kinds of things do they say? "Andrew has cancer!" or "Get away from me smallpox carrier" Weird, I've never heard of that.
Essentially, yes, but it doesn't sound as good in English.
Interestingly, I'd be more defensive if someone was to genuinely enquire about my sexuality than if someone was to call me 'gay' as an insult.
For example if I was walking down the street and some kiddy shouted "Oi, gay boy!" I'd igmnore him and think he was a twat... but a few years ago my sister asked me if I was gay, in the most non-insulting, understanding way possible, and I flipped. She must have honestly thought I was gay and was trying to get me to admit it... and I took offense to that.
I'm about as straight as they come, I'm just really shy around women, especially when I quite like them.
You know what Stupot, I think you're right. If someone I knew (or even worse, didn't know) sincerely asked me if I was gay, I'd probably flip out too.
Quote from: shbaz on Sat 05/04/2008 20:30:56
It's a threat to my ability to find a mate if my potential mates think I'm only interested in men.
Possible.
But I think that it's not the word or its meaning that offends, but thought behind it. I mean, usually if one goes calling other gay, that's a try to insult as heavily as possible. "Gay" was simply word chosen to use as "teh ultimate insult". It could have been aswell anything else. Term "gay", for straight men, is a term that tries to isolate and expel the named one, making him not a member of the social group ("not one of us") and forcing him into another group.
Most of the heterosexual males I know are either homophobes or simply deny it's existence, or are a bit less than neutral... "whatever as long as you leave my ass alone" is most common take on the subject. More or less, I'm too. Beautiful talks(or brainwashing) of tolerance and gay pride is what media does, not really casual people. That depends on country too, of course. But even many of those "politically correct" in public act different way when with friends etc.
If it's told as an insult, it's an insult.
Calling a heterosexual male gay is only useful as an insult because the heterosexual male ego is so stupidly one-dimensional.
In the deepest, darkest, most primitive corner of his brain, the average heterosexual male believes his masculinity is all he really has to entice the female sex. Which is why the average heterosexual male is no more psychosexually complex than the average chimpanzee. If all it took to win over a prospective mate was to stand on a rock and thrust our scrotums in the air, then we would happily do it.
To take away our masculinity (in the hetero sense) is to deny us our ability to hold the status of Alpha Male. To be accused of being gay by another prospective Alpha Male is something the ego can deal with; it simply dismisses it as jealousy, or an attempt to weaken a rival in the eyes of a prospective mate.
But when the accusation is made by a prospective mate? The ego is castrated.
Like most things related to sexual politics, it's all utter and complete bollocks.
I think you're really over-analysing and over-generalising there, Fishy. I don't think it's some kind of social stigma, nor do I think it's about some primitive need to defend masculinity (in a great majority of cases). What it comes down to is the simple fact that there are still people out there who find homosexuality distasteful (unsurprisingly) and don't want to be associated with it on any level. This especially applies to members of certain religious groups who are quite adamant against what they consider perverse acts. I personally am not a pro-gay person, but I certainly wouldn't get insanely angry if someone called me gay as a joke or an insult. Insults are funny, that way; they affect people differently, and I've seen people get fighting mad over being called niggers and spics or people being called crackers and honkeys far more often than I've seen anyone get into a fight over being called gay. It's really all about a person's internal control and ability (or lack thereof) to shrug off personal attacks more than any sort of primitive male-ego boosting.
QuoteIf someone I knew (or even worse, didn't know) sincerely asked me if I was gay, I'd probably flip out too.
That in itself is pretty fucked up. What is so wrong with someone enquiring about your sexuality that the thought that you could be anything other than straight straight straight! is enraging?
I've got to agree with Becky. I've been asked if I was gay several times, mostly because I have several gay friends and lived with one gay friend for three years. Being asked a legitimate question like "Are you gay?" in no way made me somehow less manly or more homosexual.
And the idea that some dude calling you gay will somehow diminish your ability to find a female mate...? I just can't follow that. I'd wager that any girl within earshot of someone freaking out upon being called gay would likely be more inclined to assume that your overreaction is due to your sexual insecurity and thus be less inclined to to doodle you. If you simply called the person on being ignorant in thinking that "gay" is a derogatory term, and shrugged off any further insults from the Neanderthal, I'd figure your stock would go up.
Ladies? Confirmation?
Quote from: Vince Twelve on Sun 06/04/2008 01:19:44
Ladies? Confirmation?
You have mine :) Anyone who freaks when called gay might not be as manly as he thinks. That's what most girls will believe, and maybe we're wrong but that's how this reaction would make us feel.
Over here guys don't use "gay" as an insult so much, they use "homo" or our own word for it. When I speak in English to American or British friends, I don't like using the word "gay" to refer to something I don't like. Mainly because I have gay friends, and I don't like the word being linked to something negative (people consider it negative enough as it is). "That movie is so gay!", seriously, what's that supposed to mean? Just say that it's bad, and everyone will understand.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Sun 06/04/2008 00:55:41
I think you're really over-analysing and over-generalising there, Fishy.
Guilty as charged. But I would also consider instances of heterosexual men becoming angry solely because the thought of one man penetrating the anus of another sickens them, fairly insubstantial; though such a reason may adequately validate any homophobic reactions they might experience.
I agree that being called "gay" hardly rates as an insult, and certainly wouldn't move me to react, violently or otherwise, and that someone who reacts to being called gay would probably also react to be being called a pussy or a wimp in exactly the same manner.
(EDIT: No need for the bit that was here. :-X)
I was implying that such an "insult", to an insecure hetero male mindset, could be, within the confines of their fragile ego, socially devastating, if it comes from someone of the female persuasion; in fact, I would say a reaction would therefore be
more likely.
In that way, I think it can be linked to a more primitive social outlook.
Of course, not every heterosexual male would respond in this manner, and it would take one that wasn't just sexually immature, but immature in general, and possibly unstable, to react in a violent manner.
Quote from: brokenbutterfly on Sun 06/04/2008 01:49:22
"That movie is so gay!", seriously, what's that supposed to mean?
Indeed. The word "gay" has come to represent everything which doesn't conform to an ideal, personal or social, which is accepted as "Normal". Or possibly even "Right".
That haircut is GAY, that car is GAY, that dog is GAY. And GAY equals WRONG. And WRONG will not be ACCEPTED.
Maybe that's the biggest fear of all.
Quote from: Vince Twelve on Sun 06/04/2008 01:19:44
And the idea that some dude calling you gay will somehow diminish your ability to find a female mate...? I just can't follow that. I'd wager that any girl within earshot of someone freaking out upon being called gay would likely be more inclined to assume that your overreaction is due to your sexual insecurity and thus be less inclined to to doodle you.
I quite agree with this reasoning. Nearly every time I hear of an outrageous, never-in-a-million-years, over the top scandal going on it is by some loud-mouthed anti-gay personality who was caught doing something they supposedly abhorred. It has reached the point where my first instinct if I hear likewise is to assume the perpetrators are indeed homosexual.
Regarding the "flipping out" if being asked if I were gay, Becky has it right. I too have been questioned often, but I tend to respond in the opposite. If a guy asks me out or tries to give me his number or something, despite not being gay myself I think the attention is nice. I am the first to admit that I am not in the least an ideal specimen of testosterone, so can understand why people would be curious.
What I think is really wrong with the culture is that many men feel the need to act in a certain way that solidifies their sexuality in the eyes of others, even against their true conscience. That sounds to me like one of the easiest ways to waste a life.
I dunno... I know quite a few ladies who find gay men all the more attractive. :P Forbidden fruit and all that. Plus there is a kind of "stereotype" emerging that "gay men are cuter". I guess this means that they take better care of their image.
I have a few gay friends myself, but they're all female. I assume that this means any gay males I know are probably not willing to come out of the closet. I've always thought that the stigma against two men together is much stronger than two females together. "Butch" is nowhere near the level of insult that "gay" seems to have in society.
I wouldn't try to guess why, not being a male, but I think it's really very sad.
Quote from: Disco on Sun 06/04/2008 02:22:45
If a guy asks me out or tries to give me his number or something, despite not being gay myself I think the attention is nice. I am the first to admit that I am not in the least an ideal specimen of testosterone, so can understand why people would be curious.
Interesting points, Disco.
How many straight men will admit to being flattered when hit on by another man?
And has society reached a point were it's legitimate to surmise someones sexuality by comparison to certain ideals?
Quote from: LimpingFish on Sun 06/04/2008 02:41:55
How many straight men will admit to being flattered when hit on by another man?
Not many that's for sure! For my part, girls hitting on me did happen, and like Disco said, the attention is nice. Why feel disgusted when it's the same sex, while flattered when it's the opposite? It all goes down to the same, someone thinking you look good, or interesting, or original, and liking you enough to strike a conversation :)
Quote from: LimpingFish on Sun 06/04/2008 02:41:55
How many straight men will admit to being flattered when hit on by another man?
Back in highschool I was so scared to ask girls out for fear of negative reaction. I can't even BEGIN to imagine how scared a grown up person would be to ask out a member of their own sex for fear of negative reaction/public spectacle/getting the shit beat out of you.
The worst thing I thought a girl would do is laugh, what if I was afraid she'd gather up a bunch of friends and beat me up in the parking lot too?
EEESH
Quote from: LimpingFish on Sun 06/04/2008 02:41:55
How many straight men will admit to being flattered when hit on by another man?
Aww hell, that's easy. I will. When I was in college, my girlfriend at the time had a good friend who was a gay man. He would openly say to my girlfriend how much in love with me he was and hit on me all the time. I quite enjoyed the attention. It certainly didn't make me worry if I was gay. I wasn't attracted to him in the least. But at least someone at the time was acting like they were attracted to me (my girlfriend certainly didn't... :P) and that felt good.
Can't believe I've missed this thread. Anyway, I think the reason why people don't like being called gay is because gay is being asociated with stupid. Heck even I (a gay guy) something see something and think.. oh that's so gay. While I actually mean: oh that's so stupid or something. It's just prented into my brain.
QuoteBack in highschool I was so scared to ask girls out for fear of negative reaction. I can't even BEGIN to imagine how scared a grown up person would be to ask out a member of their own sex for fear of negative reaction/public spectacle/getting the shit beat out of you.
That's why lots of gay people use the internet to find people. Or go to gay bars or sauna's and stuff. That way you are sure that the other person is gay too. I can't imagian meeting someone without those things. It's as you said just too scary, so rather take the save way.
I see a big philosophical discussion again, I like it :)
Vince has got a point there. If I was asked if I am gay in a serious way (which I wasnt so far), I wouldnt be scared,flipped or upset. It is completely normal question, I would reply negatively and possibly ask how did the person came to that question. That's all. No big deal. If I asked someone if he/she cooks, would it result in making him a professional cook?
And If I've seen someone asked somebody else if he's gay and he would be upset and angry about it, I would think that it is more likely that he is truly gay than if his reaction was normal and mature.
QuoteAnd If I've seen someone asked somebody else if he's gay and he would be upset and angry about it, I would think that it is more likely that he is truly gay than if his reaction was normal and mature.
I'd tend to think he was an immature homophobic twat.
My friends sister played a rather cruel prank on me a few months ago, telling one of his gay friends that I was also gay. That lead to a quite awkward and uncomfortable situation later on. And even after explaining it was a joke on me, I think the guy still thinks I'm gay. I'm not offended by that joke, but it was not a nice thing to do neither.
Anyway, even though I've been hit on by men before, it's still nothing I could ever really get used to. Not that I'm homophobic, but it's just always unexpected or even a bit shocking. Some say you must be great looking to get hit on by other men, but I think I look rather average, so I have no idea why it happens.
Quote from: Cino on Sun 06/04/2008 14:04:32
Anyway, even though I've been hit on by men before, it's still nothing I could ever really get used to. Not that I'm homophobic, but it's just always unexpected or even a bit shocking. Some say you must be great looking to get hit on by other men, but I think I look rather average, so I have no idea why it happens.
First - everyone looks average, and no one looks average.
Second - I would be also kind of surprised. I think it's partly caused by the uncertainity. You never know if a person is homosexual if you look at him/her at the first time. You can just guess. And when they hit on you, it kind of surprises if you have thought that the person wasn't homosexual.
well you got to give them that, gay people are still a minority, and most are in the closet during the sexual seeking period in which people usually group up with others. It's not easy falling in love with a straight guy when he has no interest in you.
Quote from: Becky on Sun 06/04/2008 12:17:06
QuoteAnd If I've seen someone asked somebody else if he's gay and he would be upset and angry about it, I would think that it is more likely that he is truly gay than if his reaction was normal and mature.
I'd tend to think he was an immature homophobic twat.
Sure, homophobic. Though homosexuality was for long considered a disease and even illegal in places, some of the religious people still don't accept them. Nor do my grandparents. People don't change views just because the media/the law does. I'm not comparing here, but say paedophilia became legal... I still wouldn't like the idea. Of course it's completely different, but it wasn't, at some point, in the eyes of the law.
I've been hit on by men several times, thinking of it, probably just as much as by women. That was when I didn't walk around with a gorgeous blonde next to me. But I never found it offending. Of course it gets you thinking, if you should dress up or walk or talk someway different to seem more hetero, but not to get rid of the men, mostly to attract more women. Though in the end it doesn't work that way.
Anyway, prejudice usually comes from the family or if people are not educated well enough. They Talk to little children about marriages and tease them about girl/boyfriends, but not of the same sex, as if that was to scare them, while I think it mostly scares the parents to see their son kiss another guy. I've kissed plenty of men, but sadly it never felt the same. And I see rows of naked men every week in the sauna, but that never gets me turned on :( I'm happy though, that knowing my mom and dad, they'd be all right with it. Don't know about their parents then, if one of us was homosexual.
Too much of me, and I'm full of weird perversions anyway. What I was trying to say is that I agree with ProgZ; too much thinking around this. Everything different scares people, and most might not be used to gays around. And to be concluded into the minority is a threat. If you werea leftie politician at a party and realise everyone around you are righties, you'd feel a bit threatened telling them you're different ;)
I sometimes wonder if the way to counteract the peer pressure teenagers have to smoke is to negate it with peer pressure not to be gay. How? Make cigarette manufacturers print the word Gay on all cigarettes (and on rizlas, too, of course).
Of course anyone brave enough to be out anyway probably would have enough nous to avoid taking up smoking...
That's actually quite brilliant. Though it would probably make a lot more financial damage to cigarette producers than just the teenagers' interest. And thusly not going to happen.
Cigayrettes?
Quote from: Becky on Sun 06/04/2008 01:02:15
QuoteIf someone I knew (or even worse, didn't know) sincerely asked me if I was gay, I'd probably flip out too.
That in itself is pretty fucked up. What is so wrong with someone enquiring about your sexuality that the thought that you could be anything other than straight straight straight! is enraging?
Quote from: Becky on Sun 06/04/2008 12:17:06
QuoteAnd If I've seen someone asked somebody else if he's gay and he would be upset and angry about it, I would think that it is more likely that he is truly gay than if his reaction was normal and mature.
I'd tend to think he was an immature homophobic twat.
I absolutely disagree.
My anger at my family asking if I was gay was in no way an immature or homophobic recation. There is a reason for it.
Put it this way... I can't get a girlfriend... it sucks... sometimes it hurts... my family probably wonder why I rarely bring girls home and never seem to have a girlfriend... They think it's wierd... They obviously discuss it amongst themselves, put two and two together and make ten... They conclude that I must be gay...
...so not only can I not get a girlfriend, but now my family thinks I'm gay, and the pressure to prove that I am not is even greater, which makes not being able to get a girlfriend that much more of a problem.
I'm not 'truly gay', and I'm not a 'twat', I'm just very shy guy around women.
perhaps what you need is to get caught fapping to straight porn.
This actually happened to a friend of mine** (who we has suspicions about) :P.
Could be tricky to "pull off" though ;).
**Thankfully, I was not the one who walked in on him
Quote from: Tuomas on Mon 07/04/2008 15:00:20
perhaps what you need is to get caught fapping to straight porn.
Haha, yeah, that could work, kinda embarrasing though!
Stu - what you are talking about is totally different case from the one Becky refered to. It is a case of pressure, not just unlogical reaction on "are you a gay?" question. When I am under pressure, I sometimes react angry at any questions...
I think LimpingFish is closer to the mark than he (?) has been given credit for.
Every living thing on the planet has a deeply fundamental, primal urge to carry on its species, and humans are no different.
Sex is like the vanishing point that everything else in life is leading towards.
To this effect, in the eyes of some, gay = failure to mate = failure to further the species = failure at the most basic level of existence, stuck at square one being overtaken by amoebas.
But, you know, people understand gay. They may not like it, but they understand it because it's still about having sex.
You try telling someone you're asexual, that you're just not interested in sex regardless of who it'd be with.
They really can't get their head around that.
Quote from: Raggit on Sat 05/04/2008 19:32:04
What potential do they see in that to be an insult? And if it's such a terrible thing, why do they dwell on it?
It's just part of the social lexicon. I don't think people really equate it with homosexuality any more.
If someone on the street called out "Hey, Faggot!" I'd be annoyed, not because he's insulting my manhood, but because he's insulting me in general.
It's like asking why being a "dickhead" is an insult. When you call someone a dickhead, you're not stating "you have a dick-shaped head" - it's just an expression of your dislike. Same with 'faggot'.
Gay, the insult, is meaningless.
Emerald,
I don't see how being called a faggot would insult you but you say the insult is meaningless, when it obviously isn't to you if you are insulted by it.
Quote from: Ultra Magnus on Mon 07/04/2008 17:37:05
You try telling someone you're asexual, that you're just not interested in sex regardless of who it'd be with.
They really can't get their head around that.
Tell me about it. I identify with asexuality out of lack of interest and even somewhat of a distaste for romantic relationships, yet still people continue to tell me it is not possible, or highly unlikely for someone to feel that way. I once had a schoolmate turned coworker ask me outright in response to a chat about asexuality: "Interesting....but, are you sure that you are not just gay but are afraid to admit it to yourself?" :o because I have nothing better to do than go around lying about something that I would have no reason to hide. People are nuts though.
Quote from: Ultra Magnus on Mon 07/04/2008 17:37:05
...LimpingFish is closer to the mark than he (?)...
Yes,
dude.
You should all be listening to The Smiths! :)
It's all about beeing gay in a very poetic way ( gays aren't allways the sensitive type ) in a world where to be gay can put someone in trouble.
It only took Morrissey 20 years to come out of the closet, so stay calm gay agsers, there is time!
When I was a teenager I thought, for a while, that I could be gay, not because I felt atracted to my friends but because I liked male icons ( James Dean, Morrissey, Montgomery Cliff, etc... ) and could not get laid with a girl and most of my friend did. Knowing they were all gay icons didn't help at all.
Eventualy I met a girl and I still remember not sleeping through the night following my first real kiss.
Stupot, this one for you:
Shyness is nice and
Shyness can stop you
From doing all the things in life
You'd like to
Shyness is nice and
Shyness can stop you
From doing all the things in life
You'd like to
So, if there's something you'd like to try
If there's something you'd like to try
Ask me I wont say no, how could I?
Coyness is nice, and
Coyness can stop you
From saying all the things in
Life you'd like to
So, if there's something you'd like to try
If there's something you'd like to try
Ask me I wont say no, how could I?
Spending warm Summer days indoors
Writing frightening verse
To a BUCKTOOTHED girl in Luxembourg...
Sorry for the long post, and if you think it had typos, try and play my game!
QuoteGay, the insult, is meaningless.
QuoteI don't see how being called a faggot would insult you but you say the insult is meaningless, when it obviously isn't to you if you are insulted by it.
he means it's meaningless as in, it doesn't mean "you're homosexual", it's just an insult with and without meaning (usually said without meaning). If that made sense.
I'm extremely relaxed when it comes to these things. I can easily joke about it among my friends and I've even discussed whom I'd rather be with had I been gay.
As a side note, my grandfather thought I was gay for a very long time since I could never present a proper girlfriend before him. My family laughed a lot about this, especially since they were well aware of my sporadic nightly escapades and various short-lived attempts at relationships. Once he even read a letter I'd written to a local newspaper where I harshly condemned some priests that had petitioned against gay marriage, and this made him even more determined. I never took offense, of course.
Luckily, gramps got to live to see me in a proper relationship before he died, and made very good friends with her too.
Quote from: Raggit on Mon 07/04/2008 23:01:02
I don't see how being called a faggot would insult you but you say the insult is meaningless, when it obviously isn't to you if you are insulted by it.
I think it's the intent. It's said with the intent to insult, and regardless of what names the person chooses to use, you get the message.
Quote from: miguel on Mon 07/04/2008 23:29:24
It only took Morrissey 20 years to come out of the closet, so stay calm gay agsers, there is time!
Sorry to rain on that parade Miguel, Morrissey has never come out. And according to Johnny Marr, he's had relationships with guys and girls.
But yes, The Smiths rock, speaking of which, I saw Johnny Marr with Modest Mouse last weekend. That was great :D
Also, for a while being called a fag really annoyed me because I was scared I was. I realized I was bi a while back and being called a fag didn't scare me anymore, so it's just another meaningless insult. It's always great fun making it backfire on a friend though
"You're such a fag."
"yeah" *wink and blow kiss*
Always freaks em out. Good for a giggle.
I really have no trouble if anyone goes about my manhood, or my sexuality or anything like that. Exactly because all problems in that sector are solved already! ;) Who cares what anyone thinks when I will go every night back in my wife's arms, huh? :D
It is an insult to anyone who is insecure enough to use it as such!
Modest Mouse are a good band, I'm allways trying to pick Marr's guitar from the other instruments which is easy because he's such a good musician.
Morrissey did come out, I'm afraid, buy Uncut's last issue, there is something about it. Also, if you listen to 'You are the Quarry' album, you'll see it's all about coming out of the closet for Morrissey. Thank god for that, nobody has to suffer for 20 years! As for what Marr said about Mozz having had relations with girls, well? That's only normal, isn't it?
Most gay guys have relations with girls and then discover they don't like it that much!
all the best
Quote from: [Cameron] on Tue 08/04/2008 16:53:02
Quote from: miguel on Mon 07/04/2008 23:29:24
It only took Morrissey 20 years to come out of the closet, so stay calm gay agsers, there is time!
Sorry to rain on that parade Miguel, Morrissey has never come out. And according to Johnny Marr, he's had relationships with guys and girls.
But yes, The Smiths rock, speaking of which, I saw Johnny Marr with Modest Mouse last weekend. That was great :D
Also, for a while being called a fag really annoyed me because I was scared I was. I realized I was bi a while back and being called a fag didn't scare me anymore, so it's just another meaningless insult. It's always great fun making it backfire on a friend though
"You're such a fag."
"yeah" *wink and blow kiss*
Always freaks em out. Good for a giggle.
I joke about my sexuality often, maybe more often than most. But if one questions my sexuality, I will get insulted. However, I don't consider being gay as an insult, just like I don't consider being a woman insulting. I believe when someone thinks you're a woman when you're a guy is insulting for similar reasons. And I hope I'm not insulting anyone right now by comparing gays to women, but it's the best analogy I could find :P.
When someone insults me it always hurts, no matter how stupid the insult was, or if I personally found the comment insulting at all. It's the thought that counts, not the actual insult.
Where I'm serving in the military, there's some guy who's obviously gay, but we all like him. I noticed that whenever we joke about gayhood, we never include him in our jokes when he's present. But when he's not, our gayhood jokes usually involve him :P (eg "put something on before X rapes you" etc).
Quote from: Paper Carnival on Tue 08/04/2008 19:22:52
Where I'm serving in the military, there's some guy who's obviously gay, but we all like him. I noticed that whenever we joke about gayhood, we never include him in our jokes when he's present. But when he's not, our gayhood jokes usually involve him :P (eg "put something on before X rapes you" etc).
Well, gay jokes can be funny and open-minded...this one however...
Quote from: [Cameron] on Tue 08/04/2008 16:53:02
It's always great fun making it backfire on a friend though
"You're such a fag."
"yeah" *wink and blow kiss*
Always freaks em out. Good for a giggle.
Awesome! ;D One of my friends does that too, it's hilarious. That's the right attitude! ;D
Quote from: Andail on Tue 08/04/2008 19:30:59
Quote from: Paper Carnival on Tue 08/04/2008 19:22:52
Where I'm serving in the military, there's some guy who's obviously gay, but we all like him. I noticed that whenever we joke about gayhood, we never include him in our jokes when he's present. But when he's not, our gayhood jokes usually involve him :P (eg "put something on before X rapes you" etc).
Well, gay jokes can be funny and open-minded...this one however...
I realize it sounds very strong in English, in my country it sounds much less offensive...
QuoteBut if one questions my sexuality, I will get insulted.
I'm still not getting how someone enquiring what someone else's sexuality is is insulting.
Quote from: Becky on Tue 08/04/2008 22:38:26
QuoteBut if one questions my sexuality, I will get insulted.
I'm still not getting how someone enquiring what someone else's sexuality is is insulting.
I've been thinking about this... and in a way, you're right... it shouldn't cause offense. But sexuality is a primal instinct so it's not really surprising that some people react negatively when theirs is doubted or questioned.
I think if someone feels the need to ask you if you are gay, then they must already have decided you look/sound/act gay, otherwise they would surely never ask. Its not the kind of person you ask everyone is it? So this person has judged you based on what you look like... nobody likes being judged. And in a sense, that makes you self-conscious. You start asking yourself 'Do I look/sound/act gay?' and you also begin to wonder, 'if he/she thinks I'm gay, then how many other people do... and why?', and to add to this there is also the element of 'what the hell has it got to do with them anyway?'...
Now all of this may or may not cause you insult, you may not even bat an eyelid, but some people are more self-conscious than others. On top of this some people may have a personal issue, such as my girlfriend shortage I grumbled about in a previous post.
I think if you take all of that into consideration, it is quite understandable that someone may find himself getting angry when his sexuality has been questioned.
You got a point Stu. If someone asked me and it possibly made me angry, I wouldnt react angry. It is not suitable to react angry. Maybe I am angry and there are tons of questions arising in my head, but I do not need to react angry/shout/anything.
that comes with age...
Being asked if you're gay:
I think it can hurt and frustrate when you're talking to, either a family member or friend, and you give them you're honest answer and they repeatedly ask - as if calling you a liar - and no matter what you say, they know they are right, and you're wrong.
For years, my two brothers thought I was gay. They would joke about me when I wasn't around and make wise-cracks infront of me.
They thought I was gay because I had the same one good friend in elementary school through middle school. I'd have him over to spend the night almost every weekend. We were always the goofy types, immature, but always had fun together. He was the best friend I ever had.
And for that I was gay. Assholes.
Yeah, it pisses me off till this day - not because they thought I was a homosexual, but the fact of them making fun of me whenever the timing was right (especially infront of other people) and that they were ignorant enough to actually believe that I was and not even ask me - not just ask me, but honestly want to know the truth, without the hurtful blows.
--Snake
I don't get it. Gay people are awesome - I often joke about being gay, simply because it sets me apart from the knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing homophobes of North Dublin...
I mean, it's obvious to any who knows me that I'm not, but I'd far prefer to be mistaken as gay than mistaken as a typical drunken perverted college guy...
Quote from: Snake on Wed 09/04/2008 14:19:54
Yeah, it pisses me off till this day - not because they thought I was a homosexual, but the fact of them making fun of me whenever the timing was right (especially infront of other people) and that they were ignorant enough to actually believe that I was and not even ask me - not just ask me, but honestly want to know the truth, without the hurtful blows.
--Snake
Yeah, you are surely right, but it pisses you off because they are making fun of you. If they were making fun of you and calling you anything else, would it piss you off less? I admit that being called a gay is not pleasant and can hurt, but I don't think it's OK to be insulted by it. Maybe by the your brothers you can be insulted, but does it really bind to the gay thing?
That's even worse. I'm tired of this PC crap - people telling us what we can and cannot say, or be insulted by. Especially when it's an uninvolved third party.
QuoteYeah, you are surely right, but it pisses you off because they are making fun of you. If they were making fun of you and calling you anything else, would it piss you off less?
No, it wouldn't. I don't like being made fun of period (bad childhood experience long before that).
But why do you think it's wrong to be offended? Personally, I don't find anything wrong with being gay, you're still a human being are you not? I had a gay friend in highschool, I have a gay uncle and two other people that are very close to me are gay.
It just pissed me off being called something that I'm not (who are brothers and I loved very much) - I was offended. And there's nothing wrong with it.
--Snake
Emerald. Suck my balls.
No, seriously, I have brother, and he pisses me off (ok, he does not call me gay, I admit) so I think I am involved enough.
Snake - that was exactly my point. We were talking about the fact that when someone calls you gay, you are more offended than when the person calls you somthing else (faggot, anything). From what I understood this is not your case. I am too offended when my brother insists on something that I know 100% is not true (wheter concerning me or not) but that has nothing to do with that gay insult. Your case is different. When I wrote that it is not OK to be offended when being called gay, I meant it concerning previous posts - that the bare fact you are being called gay is offending more than just being called something unpleasant. If my friend said to me that I am an idiot, it's ok. When he would say to me that I am a gay, is that different? Should I react angry and become offended despite the fact I wasn't offended by being called an idiot?
(Hope you will understand this post, I am tired and have a little difficulty writing properly ;D)
With me, I don't think it is necessarily the fact that my sexuality has been questioned that is insulting, as such... it's more the fact that something about me must have led that person to feel the need to ask, and it makes you self-conscious... Also, the more serious and understanding that person tries to be about it, the more condescending it is. Perhaps that adds to the anger.
It's obviously a mixture of factors, but homophobia is by no means part of that mixture.
It's funny how the term "gay" gets thrown around. Between hetros most people in my culture would find it one of the least offensive things to say. And of all the homosexual guys I know the majority of their conversations are hinting at "I'm gay" and they generally love it when you remind them. So saying "You're gay" to them isn't an insult, its a fact.
To counteract that though, I suppose "trying" to insult someone is bullying. But it'd be so much better if companies or what not made out they were pissed at the offender for bullying, rather than for being offensive, because there really is nothing offensive about actually stating what somebody is (if they are actually gay! if not then surely its just silly banter). In fact it makes the person saying it seem like a fool. I can see though, in a restaraunt, why an argument like this would kick off. You shouldn't be using bad language in front of customers, "bitch" obviously meant to be an insult as was "you're gay". So I perfectly understand why it would cause a commotion so far as managers are concerned, but why the guy had to react so badly to being called "gay" is a bit OTT...
I think it depends on culture to culture how offensive using the word gay to someone can be. In the UK there is definitely a high tolerance to the word, its used in banter & it really is one of the least offensive words. I also think the people who are offended are getting mixed up with its definition. It once meant happy, then it meant homosexual, but nowadays I get the impression it just means "Crap." Take for example, Shawn of the Dead. My favourite closing line is the fat guy, bleeding at the neck, says "Gaaay!" lol. Obviously he meant "crap" and not "homosexual" (but yes he wasn't trying to be offensive). Anyway, I feel in this country at least, the term "gay" has faded out, using it as an insult even moreso. Back in the mid to late nineties when the wider world was only just coming to terms with gay porn, gay marriages & gay celebrity icons - it was considered very rude. But nowadays, I wouldn't even bother using it as an insult, because I knew if I did, I'd get laughed at for its stupidity, or "non" harshness. People these days say c**t if they want to offend ;)
So, I'd say the waiter is either secretely gay (the 'bitch' part makes him sound it) or he's a homophobe. Anyone else I know would've laughed and said "whatever".
Anyway this was a funny thread to read. It reminds me of working at Virgin. We had to put stickers on damaged/returned CD's/DVD's, and on one label I wrote; "It just stopped working...gay!", and was subsequently fired for it because someone 'upstairs' who was gay was apparently offended. I guess that completely screws up everything I just said, cos it wasn't being used in the 'homosexual' term yet I got compromised for using it. OH WELL. GAAAAAAAY :D
Quote from: Oliwerko on Wed 09/04/2008 20:26:58
Emerald. Suck my balls. No, seriously
So, this proposition implies that you ARE gay...
Hahaha, didn't realize this sentence in this context yesterday, it was probably bad topic for a joke like this.
I can tell you, from all "evidence" my brain gives me, I am certainly not gay.
Quote from: Mods on Thu 10/04/2008 01:09:04
I can see though, in a restaraunt, why an argument like this would kick off. You shouldn't be using bad language in front of customers, "bitch" obviously meant to be an insult as was "you're gay". So I perfectly understand why it would cause a commotion so far as managers are concerned, but why the guy had to react so badly to being called "gay" is a bit OTT...
That's what I was talking about, Snake. In this particular situation there are no other factors between "bitch" and "gay". They are both meant to be offensive, and when the person reacts to "gay" much more angry than to "bitch", that is the case we are talking about.
If it's in a family environment/friends/whatever, there are more things you are offended by. Not just the whole fact that they call you gay. I can understand that perfectly. I just can't understand why some people aren't offended when you call them "bitch" and are offended when you call them "gay". THAT is weird.
Oli, I'm glad you brought up being called an idiot. You know, because of the past experiences that I've had, plus my own take on the world, I am most certainly more offended being called an idiot - even if some one is kidding (it still irks me 'till this day) - than being called gay or anything else that has nothing to do with homosexuality.
I mean, the only times I was actually called gay and they meant it was my brothers - other than that my friends and I can joke about it all day long - act like we're gay and say different things to eachother and everything's fine with the world. Like I stated earlier, I have no problem with people that are gay.
Heh, I'm probably going to open up a can of worms and get myself into shit with at least one person around here, but fuck it - I'll admit it. The only thing I find myself shaking my head over and saying "what the fuck..." and being, well, maybe more annoyed than anything, is when I see those "stereo typical" gay men on TV having the body movments and that goddamned "stereo typical" lisp that almost everyone makes fun of. It just pisses me off - and these people are honest-to-God gays and are the most flamboyant, prancy-dancy men I've seen.
For once, on TV, I'd like to see a gay man not act like this. It's like the world is trying to say that the only gay men that exist act like that - and, in my opinion, I feel that is absolutely not true - and I'm sick of it.
--Snake
TV is evil, you know. Powerful evil. And yeah, these TV gays are just a stupid joke. If they wouldnt do these things, people wouldnt realize that the person is gay! They got to do that!
i honestly agree.
Its amazing how many real gays do follow that stereotype though... A lot of them really do have that voice, and one guy I worked with a little while ago actually admitted to it that he used to put it on before he came out. But he did it so much that it became second nature and now that is just how he speaks.
I can almost vouch for that... when I went on a school camp in 1997 there was a group of Irish scouts there, and some of us were hanging around with them. A few of us, myself included, began putting on an Irish accent for a laugh. The boys didn't mind, it was funny... anyway by the end of the week I was the only one still doing it and I realised later that I had been pissing everyone off, so I decided to try to slip back into my normal voice... it was difficult... for some reason I just couldn't seem to get out of Irish mode...
I think it is similar with gay guys. They put on the voice at first for whatever reason - personally I think it's their way of hinting that they are gay without coming out - but by the time they do come out, this voice has become their own, and the longer they have been putting it on for, the harder it is to get out of 'Big Gay Al' mode.
And with gays it's not just the voice but all the poofy little gestures and poses and facial expressions... they do exist... not all gays act this way, but some most certainly do...
Stereotypes are there for a reason, they're not just some image created by TV to make certain groups of people look stupid.
There is also the 'Gay Gene' argument, but I'm not having any of that.
Quote from: Oliwerko on Thu 10/04/2008 16:41:04
TV is evil, you know. Powerful evil. And yeah, these TV gays are just a stupid joke. If they wouldnt do these things, people wouldnt realize that the person is gay! They got to do that!
No no, I'm not talking about TV sitcoms. I'm talking about HGTV, MTV, etc... those type of shows that have real people in them.
But, yeah, I agree too with sitcoms being like that. Some pull it off quite well and are funny - like that show, um... I can't think of the name - all I can think of is
Will and Grace, but that's not it... or maybe it is, I don't know. I haven't seen it in years - but there were two gay guys in it and they were great.
//--EDIT--//
I stand corrected, the only gay guy I remember seeing on MTV that acted
nothing like what I pointed out and what STUPOT pointed out, was the black guy from one of the
Real World seasons - Chicago, I think.
--Snake
Stupot: it's not the 'gay gene', but the hormones!
some males have more female hormone than other, it is a cientific fact. If you add social environment plus unconventional childhood, it can boost what those individuals will try to hide.
There are more gay people in the world than we aknowledge, and some get famous, and if you see them on a cheap TV show than it's like every other person in it, they are cheap and stereotyped people!
To be gay is the same as to be hetero in everything except the gender of people you fancy. There are cool, interesting gays and there are some vulgar ones! Just like everybody else!
If a girl called me gay, I would simply reply with, 'If I am soooo gay, then why have I been checking out your tits the whole time?'
In theory it should work.
I've been subject to the gay name calling before. It's pointless to get angry over and even better to play along and freak people out.
Gay's used here too, in an insulting way, or simply to mean something's bad "That's so gay" - meaning that it's stupid.
I'm entirely straight, I know that for a fact. And because I'm secure about that, when somebody asks me if I'm gay, or tries to 'tell me' I'm gay, I'll usually opt to go "Why don't we find out" and wink slyly.
They generally bugger off.
If a gay dude comes up to me, I'll talk to him like I would to anyone else, but as soon as it becomes obvious he's interested in more, I'll simply tell him no, and they'll generally understand :p
Quote from: voh on Fri 11/04/2008 15:14:02
but as soon as it becomes obvious he's interested in more, I'll simply tell him no, and they'll generally understand
"I'm sorry, I'm only interested in the midnight rendezvous under the pier... I'm not taking you to meet my parents..."
"I generally understand..."
When I started driving a pink car, people at work used to make jokes but I just said "Does the pink car threaten you, somehow?" and that usually stopped them.
I have to say... the comebacks, guys, are just embarrassing...
(Said in the same tone as Joey)
I suppose it's more about how you say it than what you're saying, but daymn...
Quote from: SSH on Fri 11/04/2008 16:11:32
When I started driving a pink car, people at work used to make jokes but I just said "Does the pink car threaten you, somehow?" and that usually stopped them.
A pink car? That is so gay!
I'm kidding! Jeeze, chill out!Anyway, my standard comeback has always been...
Them: "You're gay."
Me: "Yeah, you wish."
It gets the job done. 8)
Why did you decide to drive a pink car anyway? I don't think the colour is pretty enough to go through all those immature jokes.
Them: "You're gay."
You: "Yeah, you wish."
Them: "Why would I wish for that?"
You: "TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE!"
Them: "I'm not following you."
You: "I know you are, but what am I?"
Them: "You. Are. Gay."
You: "So is your face!"
Them: "My face is flesh, muscle and nerves. It can't have a sexual preference."
You: "So is your mother!"
Them: "I grow ever weary of this tiresome exchange..."
You: "Your mother is a whore!"
Them: "Good sir, I take my leave of you."
You (to friend): "LOL. I totally outsmrted that asshole..."
Josh: "Yeah, that was awesome. Let's make out."
...
I don't know why I did that...
Edit:
I, too, am rather interested why you would pick a pink car. I mean, that's kinda asking for it...
It's like, being a regular in a gay bar and complaining when people make assumptions...
I am outnumbered by girls in my house 3 to 1. Also, I don't call it a pink car, I call it a car enabled with a chromatic anti-theft device. This relies on the anti-gay prejudice of the common thief and joyrider.
Quote from: Emerald on Fri 11/04/2008 19:36:01
...
I don't know why I did that...
If you have to ask, you'll never know. :=
Quote from: Emerald on Fri 11/04/2008 18:32:49
I have to say... the comebacks, guys, are just embarrassing...
(Said in the same tone as Joey)
I suppose it's more about how you say it than what you're saying, but daymn...
Quote from: Ultra Magnus on Fri 11/04/2008 19:09:42
Quote from: SSH on Fri 11/04/2008 16:11:32
When I started driving a pink car, people at work used to make jokes but I just said "Does the pink car threaten you, somehow?" and that usually stopped them.
A pink car? That is so gay!
I'm kidding! Jeeze, chill out!
Anyway, my standard comeback has always been...
Them: "You're gay."
Me: "Yeah, you wish."
It gets the job done. 8)
There's this guy who likes to just be silly whenever I'm around, just cause I'm gay. (There's only one guy, now, cause everyone else is already freaked out).
1)
-Are you gay?
-- Are you?
-No!
--Not yet (check him out)
2)
-Are you gay?
-- For you? Anything.
3)
-Are you gay?
--Yes
-Why
--Because you're hot.
4)
-Are you gay?
--Yes
-You're joking right?
--Wanna find out?
5)
-You need a woman dude.
--nah
-Seriously dude, sex with a woman. IS AMAZING!
--Well, when it's two men, you know what feels good and you can hit the spot ev-er-ry single time (leaning closer to him)
6)
-Are you gay?
-- is it 9 pm yet?
-No
--Then no.
-...
--Not good for the kiddies
7)
-How's the sex?
--...
-(laugs)
-- Too much.
8)
-Are you gay
--For the last time! Yes!
- So this'll be your last? you're going straight?
--you wanna be my last?
-sure
9)
(during sports)
-Hey (name) grab the ball like you grab balls!
-- I'm masochistic!
10)
-I like to play a lot of outdoor sports, you know get dirty.
Do you like to get 'dirty'?
-- Nah, usually I stay in the locker room and get dirty there.
11)
-Are you gay
-- No, I'm bi and so are my girlfriendS.
____________________________________________________________________
These are only a few.
Honestly a long time ago I took great offence when people called me a fagot (of course that was when people thought I was straight, strangely enough). There was a time I kept hitting this guy's car because he kept calling me fagot, with him inside of course (they also called me the undertaker, but that's another story).
There was this boy in school, who was obviously gay, moving his hips like crazy, being loud, wearing make-up. He annoyed me, and I mean directly (in fact I was annoyed by alot of people in that school, I was very anti-social at the time). But I had to admit, I must've been a little jealous, he's doing these crazy things, but I don't see anyone bothering him, he was so carefree and brave really, I could never be like that I told myself (I'm not saying I'm like that now, but I am open about my sexuality)
When I transfered to a different school, I tried not to be anti-social, but because I've avoided people most of my years, I acted slightly awkward (who doesn't in their first day of school). I tried to slowly 'be myself' and come out slowly. After a while, there was this girl who asked me to the prom (she had her friends with her, it felt like a set up).
I told her that I was gay, and asked her to keep it a secret, she promised...that b!tch.
She told EVERYONE and that's how the countless 'are you gay' questioning started.
Funny thing is, my life got better when I'm out than when I was 'in'; maybe it's because I've changed schools, people who go to international schools often have a broader mind, being with different kinds of people and all.
Being different attracts attention, often unwanted attention.
Different is 'interesting'.
Different can mean change and that is probably one of the biggest fears of human beings.
People just can't stop picking on it, it's like an itchy scab; you scratch and scratch, you can bleed and repeat the cycle.
or the scar is covered by a thin layer of new skin; but it won't be the same colour as the rest of your skin.
Why is it an insult to be called gay and why do most of us take offence?
I'm not really sure, but I think the biggest factor is that humans are naturally afraid of change, but are still; at least a little, curious.
Someone calls you 'Gay' it's an insult...Period. :' I've never seen it used to good effect. Anytime anyone CALLS you anything, it's more than likely an insult.
How would you feel, if someone jumped in your face and called you a 'Straight' or a 'Norm'. Being constantly labeled, with something like that.
Now if they ask, it all depends on how they say it, the intent behind it. Sometimes it's honest curiousity, sometimes it's malicious. It would be nice if orientation didn't matter to anyone but perspective partners. Too many gay people are treated like circus sideshows.
People, just don't get it. Being gay can sometimes mean you have to present your sexuality like a business card. I want people to define me as a person first, as gay second. Gay has become a synonym, for 'non-functional' or 'stupid' which is sad. But it's lingo, it comes it goes, and gay people can't be sensitive to harassment, it's the way the world is. All we can do is try and take the higher-road, and hope for the best.
P.S. Straight People can't be sensitive EITHER. I mean besides a honed intuition 'gay-dar'. How else WOULD you like people who are genuinely curious to find out?
P.P.S Check out my blog. http://www.myspace.com/letstalc - further ranting.
I flinch whenever I hear kids say "that's so gay", but I'm trying to stop. I certainly don't want to flinch; I think I just spent so long trying to 'justify' my sexuality to myself as a younger boy, that I'm hyper-sensitive. I recognise that the children don't understand the impact of their words.
I think the word is evolving in similar ways to swearwords. They can be meant as genuine insults, or they can be harmless comedy, depending on who delivers it. Assuming one way or another is just the quickest path to disaster.
My sig - in my mind - is testament to that. I nearly split my sides when AGA said it.
The boy in the original post probably would have responded the same way, no matter what the word was. Anger management issues, anyone?
Being new to the forum and quite possibly one of the "older" members here (hence exposed to a different set of social "rules" I guess)... I remember when 'gay" just meant "happy"... ::)
When people call stuff "phat", it makes me sensitive about my weight.
Bt
Yeah, well, I'm only nearly 20 years old and I can remember only a few years ago when in my country "pervert" was synonymous to "gay". Now here, there's a (usually) negative word for gay, but we use the english word when we want to be neutral.
Words are only what we make them to be.
Why gay people only talk about sex? I think the very good reason why gay marriage and adopted children in gay families is not good because for me, they have given the impression that their lifestyle revolves around sex. Yes, of course women and men flirt etc etc, but there aren't any men saying to woman in a bar that they should sit on their penis, unlike in gay bars...
But on topic.
Gay actually isn't a bad word. I believe it was used to describe something as funny. Its just that homos have taken over its meaning.
Quote from: radiowaves on Sun 20/04/2008 17:02:43
unlike in gay bars...
Man, if it bugs you so much, go to a different gay bar! You're obviously hanging out in the wrong ones.
GAY -
-adjective-
cheery, gay, sunny
bright and pleasant; promoting a feeling of cheer; "a cheery hello"; "a gay sunny room"; "a sunny smile"
- noun -
homosexual, homo, gay
someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex
Quote from: radiowaves on Sun 20/04/2008 17:02:43
...there aren't any men saying to woman in a bar that they should sit on their penis...
There
aren't? O_o Maybe men are just a bit more well behaved where you live, because I can't comprehend this.
You know, I hate heterosexuals. All the time they just talk about wanking and chicks and how much they are or are not getting laid. And they go around rubbing their personal lives in our faces with their kissing in public and their holding hands and ugh I can't go into a straight bar without some heterosexual telling me how much he'd like me to suck him off. Sodding straights and their always going on about sex.
Guys, and Gays (bad joke), you could all get along when you didn't know who's gay or not, right?
So...
Becky...THANK YOU...
BTW, we don't think only about sex, or talk only about sex, or any such thing.
No more so than anyone else does...
We're stable, normal human beings...
I'm still not sure if children is a good idea for gay couples, not because we couldn't handle it.
But because, a prejudiced society has made it too hard.
Kid's have enough to go through, without taking blows from others because 'daddy's a fag'.
Shame but that's the kinda world we live in, a world WITHOUT progress.
This is an interesting song:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=_qf0puHJ-KM
But this is in the Netherlands and I guess not every country is so accepting.
Becky - but you know, people are programmed to do that. And not everyone does that. I know people constantly talking about alcohol and sex, and other people, who are mentioning these things very occasionaly. One proof: I know of every single girl my schoolmate had (and he is changing them like socks). And, simultaneously I did not know, that my best friend has one, I realized that after a month! There, I realized differences in people concerning these things.
You cannot blame anyone for holding hands/kissing in public, can you? I mean, majority of the worlds population is heterosexual, because people just are originally heterosexual. I really dont have anything against homosexuals. But I think heterosexuals should not be blamed for behaving naturally (in their nature, that is). Do I blame Albert Einstein for being too clever and showing it into the world, despite the fact that I am not as clever as he was? No, we are just different, thats all.
It's just a pointless criticism that TEH GAYZ are always talking about sex when EVERYONE straight or not does it. I have no problem with people doing whatever in public (well there are limits...) but complaining that in a gay bar that someone might describe a desired sexual activity BECAUSE THEY ARE EVIL AND GAY AND TALK ABOUT SEX is such a pathetic excuse. Obviously people who talk about sex can't look after kids. Because kids are immaculately concieved and no naughty-naughty-rumpy-pumpy ever took place. Ever.
Quote from: Becky on Sun 20/04/2008 17:33:49
You know, I hate heterosexuals. All the time they just talk about wanking .
Are you implying that gays don't wank?
QuoteYou know, I hate heterosexuals
tell me about tolerance ::)
Try reading both her posts again. Especially one just above SSH.
Quote from: SSH on Sun 20/04/2008 20:00:54
Quote from: Becky on Sun 20/04/2008 17:33:49
You know, I hate heterosexuals. All the time they just talk about wanking .
Are you implying that gays don't wank?
I think she's implying that straight guys are wankers.
Anyway, I'm trying to remember when "gay" started to be used as a term to insult things with. I'm sure nobody used it back when I was at school, and thinking about it, it could well be that South Park was responsible in bringing it into use that way in Europe...
Of course, calling something gay (like SSH's pink car, or the end of the movie "AI") doesn't really have any homosexually-related connotations, and I even know a couple of gay guys who use it that way. When using it to insult people though, I guess it's a different matter.
Incidentally, the last time someone asked if I was gay (which was probably prompted by me admitting that I liked "It's Raining Men") I simply declined to answer the question. So there's now at least 1 person roaming the planet who will probably carry that assumption to their grave.
however the hardest thing to do is condemn someone for using the word "gay" in a nonsexual derogatory way and then turn around and call something "retarded"
"It's pretty retarded the way you use 'gay' like that..."
Duh MrColossal it's totally a-okay to insult disabled people!
This discussion sounds strange to me because in france the use of the word gay is not considered as offensant by homosexual as it seems to be for you,afaik.
We have, of course, a lot of offensant words but the words gay is more or less politically correct to design the homosexual community and i dont remember to know homosexual people here being offended by the use of that word.
Maybe its due to the fact that for us in france its a foreign word so we may attribute to it a different value than the one you use.
Becky was obviously using a heavy dose of Sarcasm, on an earlier post. She doesn't really hate straight ppl, she was trying to make a point.
Quote from: ShonenAiGuy on Sun 20/04/2008 21:29:23
Becky was obviously using a heavy dose of Sarcasm, on an earlier post. She doesn't really hate straight people, she was trying to make a point.
I beg to differ -- I still have the scars from when I admitted to Becky that I was straight. "Small but violent" should be her avatar text.
Quote from: Becky on Sun 20/04/2008 17:33:49
And they go around rubbing their personal lives in our faces with their kissing in public and their holding hands and ugh I can't go into a straight bar without some heterosexual telling me how much he'd like me to suck him off.
I would just like to add that women are not exempt from this type of behaviour, given the amount of women I see in public walking around in their fuck me pumps. It may be a silent act but in reality is just as loud at being solicited for a sucking off. The funny thing is these women aren't really going anywhere most of the time, just trying to make a statement, much like the gays in radiowaves' local.
In my experience, all women do is talk about sex and who's a virgin and who just popped who's cherry. It deeply annoys me. I'm here wanting some sort of a meaningful relationship, and all the girls want is just another name to put on their degenerate list of conquests...
Men are just hunks of genetic material to you people! To be biologically fused with your ova and then disposed of, like a Black Widow's mate... A pox on thy womb, harlot of the night! In Hell's burning lakes you find respite! 'Tis no grace in life for sex, but sex for life.
Sorry... I've been reading too much Shakespeare...
For those who missed the point of my post: both homosexuals and heterosexuals love to talk about sex! Hooray! It sure is fun! As I am a heterosexual female I will talk about heterosexual males because I most commonly come into contact with heterosexual males who like to talk about sex all the time. I do not hate men, nor do I hate heterosexuals.
So we're all agreed that everyone loves sex and because some of the people that like sex might be homosexuals it's not a reason to politically stigmatise and deny them the rights of marriage and adoption? Good. Let's move on.
QuoteIn my experience, all women do is talk about sex and who's a virgin and who just popped who's cherry.
You need to meet some women who are not teenage girls.
We all like sex! Lets have an orgy!
Has anyone ever been 'curious' about that old nursery rhyme 'Rub a dub dub, three men in a tub'?
The banker, the mayor, the cook...*drool*
Quote from: Paper Carnival on Mon 21/04/2008 18:14:48
We all like sex! Lets have an orgy!
You're not my type sorry
:( </3
Quoteheterosexual males who like to talk about sex all the time
"The more you talk, the less you do" ;D
Last thursday a friend of mine told me everything about male-on-male anal sex. It was rather interesting, apparently it doesn't hurt as much as I thought, though perhaps I'm a bit short sighted here. Well, I didn't give him and intersexual knowledge back due to my girlfriend being there too...
Also speaking of sex ;D
Thanks, Tuomas, this information is most useful for me ;D
Oh well you must have misinterpreted me, I meant to usefullness.
Bump: Consider this and more importantly, what do you think?
QuoteDiscriminations: Government Vetoes Overrule the People's Will
Last week, the European Commission made a you-turn by announcing that it would not support a "horizontal" directive that would protect all citizens from all types of discrimination, including homophobia. The Young European Federalists (JEF) strongly condemn this approach which yet again demonstrates the institution's inability to stand tall in front of national governments and failing to respond to the democratic will of the European people.
"Human and civil rights are the basic principles of modern democracies," acclaimed Samuele Pii, President of JEF-Europe. "The Charter of Fundamental Rights and the Treaties ask the European Union to fight all sorts of discrimination including sexual orientation – continued Pii. Moreover, the European Parliament has called on the Commission to adopt a directive covering all grounds of discrimination in all sectors. Yet, the Commission refuses to implement the will of the majority of Europeans to protect discriminated minorities as a consequence of pressure from various national governments.
"Human rights are a fundamental cornerstone of the European Community" commented Joonas Turunen, President JEF Finland. "There are still European citizens facing discrimination and even violence because of their sexual orientation. The EU must have the legislative leverage to force all member countries to respect human rights also when it comes to sensitive issues such as sexuality. How could the EU promote human rights and freedom globally, when it is unwilling to guarantee them to all Europeans?" Turunen continued.
As a youth organization committed to improve democratic participation and human rights in Europe, JEF promotes the recognition of equal rights between all citizens and strongly condemns homophobia. "JEF considers the attitude of the European Commission extremely worrying - comments Pii -. This situation clearly shows that they consider potential vetoes by national governments more relevant than our founding treaties and recommendations democratically adopted by the European Parliament."
To increase awareness on discrimination and violence against LGBT people, JEF welcomes the actions taken on the 17th of May, the International Day Against Homophobia. "This kind of initiative allows citizens to make their voice heard across national borders showing that civil rights, freedom and justice belong to mankind and not to national governments," concluded Samuele Pii.
As much as I'd love to support something like the EU, it just drives me crazy at times...