Hi i was just wondering how many people here use paint.net and also if any of you use graphics tablets.
im getting a graphics tablet soon and was wondering if they work well with paint.net.
also what graphics tablet have you got and how do you use it? i.e just to make games or digital art(manga, landscape anything else)
i use paint.net and find it really useful also best of all its free ;D
my mate keeps telling me i should get photoshop because its a lot better, now i dont think thats true. so whats your opinion on that?
Fusiomax
photoshop can be better for your purpose...or worse.
I prefer Corel Painter for many things (or Sketchbook), because I like a more natural feel to the media (I do use PhotoShop for certain tasks though).
Always use what feels best to you, and not what's advertised 'as the best'.
and have two wacom tablets attached to my computer for different purposes.
ps. Oh, and tell your mate that if he buys a legal copy for you that you will use it just to make him happy.
I tried using Paint.net and didn't have much luck with it - compared to other programs it just felt underpowered. I had more luck using GIMP (which is free as well, hooray!) and even more luck using Photoshop Elements (because it's waaaaay cheaper than stupid expensive full Photoshop and still does everything I want it to).
I also have a little Wacom tablet - it's not huge and doesn't have a screen or any of that whiz-bangery but it's fine for my moderate needs.
I have tried using Painter as well but had a hard time getting used to the very different feel of the program.
I use Paintshop Pro, just because it's what I'm used to really. Legal copy, too. Using more advanced software won't make you better at drawing though. Infact, the lure of easy cheats like gradients, textures and filters will probably hinder your artwork significantly until you break through it.
I have an A5 Wacom Intuos2 which I use for everything, I don't use a mouse anymore.
I just bought two Wacom Intuos 3s about a month ago:
I have a 4x6 and a 9x12 I typically use it with Photoshop because i'm the most familiar with it, although I have used (and like) GIMP. I use Painter X sometimes but I just haven't used it enough to feel comfortable with it yet.
I never used Paint. NET with the tablet but I have used it. I prefer GIMP, but Paint.NET is sufficient for probably 70-80% of users.
MyPaint's interface is confusing at first, since there basically is none. But it's free and the brush engine is well written. It's well worth a try. I use it with an Intous for Vampires Suck nowadays.
why do you all have such expensive software and tablets?
do you use them for work or just because you can afford them?
i was thnking of getting this tablet:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-Pen-Graphics-Tablet/dp/B002Q4U4AE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1271005195&sr=8-1
can anyone recommend one that isn't to expensive?
Corel painter 11 at £200 compared to the GIMP how do they really compare?
Corel painter looks really, really, really good but £200 if your not going to use it professionally is it is it really worth it?
i was looking at the GIMP but it doesn't seem to have a community and that's what i really like about paint.net the fact that people create all these plugins and show you how to do all these different effects using specifically paint.net.
for those who do use photoshop are there any real benefits?
Fusiomax
Quote from: Fusiomax on Sun 11/04/2010 18:56:51i was looking at the GIMP but it doesn't seem to have a community and that's what i really like about paint.net the fact that people create all these plugins and show you how to do all these different effects using specifically paint.net.
...Gimp has an ok community, it's a bit scattered though, I gave up on it cause for some reasons I didn't have some options in it (that were meant to be there), also I got used to PS interface and menus and Gimp for some reason had some useful functions unoptimized to select, couldn't get used to it. And since I had an original copy of PS, gave up on Gimp. The reason it has less plugins is because it has more in it's core.
Not to be too obvious, but a lot of people use cracked software, you know that right? Also some colleges provide you with a version or, like me, you practice on it at college so you can use it.
About tablets, well majority says Wacom rules, even though it is more expensive, it seems to last far longer and is of better quality. It's an investment. And if you want to look around, even getting a used one can be ok (because people buy a new version while the old one is still working fine). If you don't need it to actually professionally work (and even if you do) buy the Bamboo versions, because price goes up almost exponentially with size and models.
I have an expensive tablet because it has the pressure sensitivity, tilt sensitivity, and reliability that I want. The cheaper models are usually unreliable, I know, I had one. Though I got mine for about half of its worth through clever eBaying.
As for the software, Paintshop Pro is quite cheap, especially compared to Photoshop. I like it mostly due to familiarity with it after using the demo years ago. But it has all the functionality I need and I like the interface. I tried GIMP but hated the interface. I'll re-emphasise that better software doesn't lead to better drawing, it's really about convenience during the creative process.
Well Photoshop came free from my University. Painter X came free with my small tablet.
I saved my money to buy a large tablet similar to the one that I was used to using at University and I had it for about 2 weeks before my I came home and found that my dog had eaten my mouse and pen...
A replacement for the pen was $50 and a replacement for teh mouse was $60... a small tablet with a mouse and a pen was $90. So I bought the extra tablet. I rarely use the small as I prefer making larger strokes (it feels more natural to me.) However it's nice for travel to be able to have it.
My school has a bunch of different tablets in its various computer laboratories and so I tried several. The Intuos most closely mimiced the feel of drawing on paper and seemed to be the most sensitive. Another feature that I have discovered since buying it is that it doesn't require batteries.
Quote from: Questionable on Sun 11/04/2010 20:12:49
Painter X came free with my small tablet.
what is your small tablet?
@Benji
I'd like to get myself a Wacom thingy-doo myself. Seems like they work pretty good.
Quotewhiz-bangery
lol!
@Count Snakula
I know people who've bought them and gone "Wait, this isn't like painting or drawing" and packed them up and not used them again. The best idea is to try and borrow one or visit a friend who has one and muck around with it for a fair while (give it a good go to make sure) before you make the final decision.
Still, I use mine so much that I've considered buying a second one just as a backup in case this one ever breaks. I use it all the time now.
Quote from: Ben304 on Tue 13/04/2010 11:51:48
Still, I use mine so much that I've considered buying a second one just as a backup in case this one ever breaks. I use it all the time now.
4x6 Wacom for Sale! =P
I've recently got myself a Wacom Bamboo (the small one), and it's really good enough for me. I'm still getting used to it, and that itself is a lot of fun, no idea how much I will use it once I've come to grips with the mechanics.
As for software, it's Photoshop (3.0) and ArtRage. Photoshop is NOT the ideal tool if you are aiming at your tablet stuff looking as natural as possible, but it IS powerful, and it IS very stable. ArtRage really is great, and I recommend trying it out (in addition to that, a stripped-down version is available for free at http://www.artrage.com/artragedemo.html (http://www.artrage.com/artragedemo.html)).
I used to think a tablet is really nothing more but "unlimited paper", but it's amazing how much having a pen with an undo button changes your habits ;)
@Questionmark:
Thanks for the offer, but I think I'd go for an A5 again if buying another. It seems to work perfectly for me.
@Ghost:
I use the undo function so darn much that I assigned it to a single button macro :P.
@304
QuoteThe best idea is to try and borrow one or visit a friend who has one...
Good idea, but I don't know anyone who owns one :'(
What kind of Wacom do you have? I just did a quick search and there looks to be quite a few, and they are a bit pricey (which was expected for such a device anyway). Do the pens need a tablet to work or do they work on there own? The reason I ask is because I saw a bunch of pens sold without the tablet.
Mine's a Graphire - mainly because that was what was suggested by a friend. It also seems to be the one model nobody has - a bit better than the Bamboo and not quite as good as the Intuos, I think ;D. As far as the pens go, mine won't work without the tablet. I couldn't say for other tablet models though.
Yeah, they're pricey. I saved up the money and then ummed and ahhed about buying one for about 6 months before actually taking the plunge. Most gadgety type peripherals that I've tried on a PC have left me very unimpressed, but not in this case.
If you're shopping around, I'd say make sure you at least get one that supports pressure sensitivity. I couldn't say about tilt sensitivity, and I never use the extra buttons on the actual tablet, and only use the pen and eraser tips on the pen (never the little thumb buttons that seem a bit fiddly for my big clumsy hands - seriously, my hands are enormous, how am supposed to deal with that tiny little switch thing?). But pressure sensitivity is awesome and I love it and makes blending colours and getting better line thickness variations and such way easier.
Sorry for infodump, hooray again for tablets.
Just to add to what Ben says, I use an Intuos 3 (A5) which I had no trouble adapting to. Though I ummed and ahhed for twice as long as him.
Unlike Ben's experience, I find the Intuos's additional buttons very helpful. They allow you to zoom in and out and pan in Photoshop much more quickly. If you're working on a large image (and a small monitor like me!) they're a great help.
For all tablets I'm aware of, the pens only work with a tablet. I think the individual ones you saw will be replacements.
Ah, it seems like the Intuos 3 has buttons on the side, in a useful location, unlike my graphire which has them up the top and only 2 of them.
I use my tablet a lot in tandem with mouse and keyboard, so I have no real issues with panning and zooming :D
Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.
I can vouch for the bamboo, good tablet.
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 15:25:22
Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.
I can vouch for the bamboo, good tablet.
...which is also small. :P
Cintiq = £1249
Bamboo = £40
The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both :-\
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 16:17:09
Cintiq = £1249
Bamboo = £40
The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both :-\
Oh, I trust you. But it sounded like you said, that you can buy either Bamboo or small Cintiq, there are plenty of choices in between.
Bamboo is rather small, maybe too small for comfort although it gets the job done. Cintiq is waaay into pro territory for a lot of people (skill and money wise)...in any case, bygones. :)
Anyway, it has to be looked at as an investment, something that'll probably be used for 2 years and more, kinda takes the sting out of the price...actually 40 pounds is not that expensive, cause it costs about 60 here.
I bought an Intuos 3 (6x11) several years ago, and totally love it. Although I don't use it as much as I should, but it's definitely been worth the price tag I spent. Which I believe was around $600. I never ummed or ahhed either. I knew I was going to use it, so I bought it.
The reason I like the large size is that it's actual screen resolution on the tablet (widescreen too). I have no idea how the small ones work, does it work exactly like a mouse, or better example, the touchpads on laptops? Either way, it seemed like a hassle that I wasn't willing to do. I wanted my large drawing surface. ;D
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 15:25:22Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 16:17:09The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both :-\
I politely disagree...The 12-inch Cintiq has exactly the right size for me, and the cables aren't an issue (they would be if I would use it with a laptop I suppose, or if my workplace would be dynamic; which it isn't (although I do change the position of the Cintiq itself regularly and easily)). The 21-inch Cintiq I've never tried, but really wouldn't fit my workflow (it would be way to big...)
My other tablet is an old Graphire A5 (A4 again would be way to big). I use both, but prefer the Cintiq for many tasks (not all though), and think it was worth every euro-cent.
So while a tablet can be too small (A5 is the minimal size for me) bigger is definitely not always better.
The right choice depends completely on the way you work, and the only real advice to give has already been given by Ben: try (at a friend) before you decide.
I think my Bamboo IS the smallest tablet there is, but I really don't feel (too) limited by the roughly A5 area. I usually do the rough sketches at 100 - 75% scaling, and for the final lines and details I go all the way to 400%+. I bet a larger area is useful though, but even on real paper I hardly ever do "really big strokes". I think that really is a personal thing.
I am thrilled by a tablet with a monitor, though, sounds like the perfect way to skip the "learn how to draw on your knees while watching a screen in front of you" issue. IS is that good, Chicky? I feel in some uhhhm ahhh mood right now ;D
Quote from: Ghost on Tue 13/04/2010 18:18:27I am thrilled by a tablet with a monitor, though, sounds like the perfect way to skip the "learn how to draw on your knees while watching a screen in front of you" issue. IS is that good
It's still no pencil and paper. But
digitally it's the next best thing...but with undos.
The impact a Cintiq can have on the way you work compared to a regular tablet is comparable to the impact a tablet can have compared to a mouse (and yes, some people can do great things with a mouse)...of course if you aren't any good at drawing (on paper or digitally) it won't magically transform you into the greatest artist who ever lived.
For me it is
that good...for others it may be nothing more that a gimmick.
Ps. I wouldn't advice a Cintiq to anyone I don't know personally, though. It has to fit your workflow and it isn't right for everyone. And if it doesn't fit you it's way to expensive of course.
Quote from: Misj' on Tue 13/04/2010 18:39:45
...of course if you aren't any good at drawing (on paper or digitally) it won't magically transform you into the greatest artist who ever lived.
...my dreams...my hopes....all ruined....shattered into pieces and thrown into the abyss....OH, THE HUMANITY!
But seriously, I prepare to buy it right after some trouble at college resolves. The thing I want it for is to correct anatomy on the fly and to clean up more easily, cause I'm rather messy with the pencil.
Thanks for all the great info, guys.
I didn't realize that some pens DIDN'T come with pressure sensitivity. I'm glad you mentioned that, Ben. I just assumed that sensitivity was a staple with these gadgets. Tilt sensitivity would be a good idea too, I would think.
Not sure if I'll get one any time soon, but again, thanks for the info.
Quote...my dreams...my hopes....all ruined....shattered into pieces and thrown into the abyss....OH, THE HUMANITY!
Heh :=
Quote from: Misj' on Tue 13/04/2010 17:31:43
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 15:25:22Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 16:17:09The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both :-\
I politely disagree...The 12-inch Cintiq has exactly the right size for me, and the cables aren't an issue (they would be if I would use it with a laptop I suppose, or if my workplace would be dynamic; which it isn't (although I do change the position of the Cintiq itself regularly and easily)). The 21-inch Cintiq I've never tried, but really wouldn't fit my workflow (it would be way to big...)
My other tablet is an old Graphire A5 (A4 again would be way to big). I use both, but prefer the Cintiq for many tasks (not all though), and think it was worth every euro-cent.
So while a tablet can be too small (A5 is the minimal size for me) bigger is definitely not always better.
The right choice depends completely on the way you work, and the only real advice to give has already been given by Ben: try (at a friend) before you decide.
Fair play, it's a great tablet but i feel the need to bad mouth it because i really don't think the price is justified. I bought a computer table so that i could use my Cintiq easily with my laptop sitting above but i still feel a little cramped. Have you had any problems with calibrating the Cintiq screen? I find that the basic brightness+contrast controls cant match the image to my laptop perfectly, it needs control over the colour saturation etc but there's no option.
Please tell me if i am being a fool and missing something.
Quote from: Chicky on Tue 13/04/2010 20:38:20Fair play, it's a great tablet but i feel the need to bad mouth it because i really don't think the price is justified.
I waited several years before buying one, and am quite happy with that decision and use the device regularly. As such I consider it worth the money (I did search for a 'cheap' store on the internet though, which saved me between two- and four-hundred euros, so that made it much more appealing). I however also admit that it does have it's flaws (they are just not big enough that I wouldn't want my next tablet to be similar).
QuoteHave you had any problems with calibrating the Cintiq screen? I find that the basic brightness+contrast controls cant match the image to my laptop perfectly, it needs control over the colour saturation etc but there's no option.
This I agree with. While I do a lot of stuff in black and white, when using colour I regularly swap the image between my two screens, because my standard monitor is better colour-calibrated (albeit also not perfectly). This is something I believe Wacom should invest in...I don't think the colour calibration is bad, just not as good as it should be.
The reason I went with the Intuos 3 series is because all the pens are compatible with the Cintiq series, which I plan on buying at some point. The Intuos 4 line pens do not work with the Cintiqs, and reportedly the Cintiq and Intuos lines will not be cross compatible for the immediate future.
I used small tablet surfaces but in order to get the level of detail in some of my work I would need to zoom in on a specific area, something I don't like to do. I like to work with my piece entirely visible so I can see how any changes effect the overall image. I'm a pen/pencil artist by trade and I'm just now getting into painting but as soon as I had my first lesson in school, I was able to replicate most of the experience on the Wacom, something I couldn't do with a mouse.
I've tried VisTab, Genius Tablet and some other brand, but the always seem to have lag/not be sensitive enough/be cumbersome. For that reason I decided to mainly look at Wacom. Then, the discounts I received through my school my the difference between a Graphire and an Intuos negligible, why would I not pay $10 for more pressure sensitivity, more accessory support, more size options and a larger established user base? So I was left to decide between Bamboo, Cintiq and Intuos. I would have loved to get a Cintiq but there was no discount and dropping $1,000 on something that I had never touched before didn't seem smart. Between the Bamboo and the Intuos, the Intuos maintains all of it's advantages over the Graphire (although even more-so against the Bamboo series,) however there was a price disparity; even with a discount the Bamboo was much cheaper. Ultimately though, I decided that it was an investment in my future. I bought a dog to force myself to become more responsible, I've lived on my own since I was 17 to force myself to learn how to live independently; I knew that if I made the larger investment I would be more likely to utilize it. If I bought so cheap-o $50 peripheral device it would sit in a drawer next to my desk. If I spent $200, that shit was going to get used... even if I never used it as a drawing tablet it would be in my kitchen as the most expensive chopping block I'll ever own. Luckily, I do use it as a drawing tablet.
Then I needed to decide between the Intuos 2, 3 or 4. The 2 was more expensive than a Graphire, with few additional features; I ruled that one out. The 3 series was the one with the most widely available information and was compatible with the Cintiq. The 4 series had better speed, more pressure points and more accurate pressure reads, it looked sexy as hell, it's programmable buttons had programmable LCD displays and it had a wheel... a wheel... a god-damned wheel. It was also triple the price of the 3 series. If I'm spending $600 I mind as well save the extra cash and get a second hand Cintiq for $700-800. So I went with the 3 Series and chose the size that I felt most natural drawing on (which happened to be the second most expensive, in the 3 series...)
I went from scanning pen work, retracing, and coloring with a mouse to: drawing in Photoshop. A much more simple, more natural and fluid process. Has it radically changed my art? No, it has influenced my art but it's had less of an influence than practice and lessons, however, it RADICALLY changed my work flow. What used to take me an hour now takes minutes, what used to take HOURS now take an hour and the ability to adapt and change and enhance, the sense of freedom is more than worth the price of admission into the "Tablet Club."
I don't think anybody here can disagree that a tablet will help you become a better digital artist, but it a minute change than would be akin to getting a hotter stove for cooking. Sure, your cooking might be slightly better and you'll have more freedom to play with simmers and steams, and high heats and low heats, but ultimately it's the ingredients you choose, the spices you leverage, the care that you cook with, the palette that you taste with and the attention that you prepare with that have a much greater influence on the outcome of the meal.
I think that if you are comfortable with your abilities as an artist a tablet is a smart move for you. If you're serious about improving your art or making art a large part of your life, a tablet might be a smart move for you. But if art is a past-time, if it's ancillary to the rest of your life as opposed to a central component, if it's not something you're going to take seriously or to try and improve, then you should save your money, think about what really DOES matter to you and invest in that instead! And it's okay to feel that way, art isn't for everyone. It's a shitty future, from all accounts, but I know that it's in me and I can't get it out. If that's the case with you, then consider a tablet. If not then it might be time to really think about why you want one, because if it's just to produce better art for your game, you could probably pay someone that DOES feel that way about art $50 and have better stuff than you might be able to produce in years!
Quote from: Questionable on Tue 13/04/2010 21:17:15
I don't think anybody here can disagree that a tablet will help you become a better digital artist, but it a minute change than would be akin to getting a hotter stove for cooking. Sure, your cooking might be slightly better and you'll have more freedom to play with simmers and steams, and high heats and low heats, but ultimately it's the ingredients you choose, the spices you leverage, the care that you cook with, the palette that you taste with and the attention that you prepare with that have a much greater influence on the outcome of the meal.
A beautiful way to see it. I heartily agree!... and I'm hungry now.
Quote from: Questionable on Tue 13/04/2010 21:17:15
I don't think anybody here can disagree that a tablet will help you become a better digital artist, but it a minute change than would be akin to getting a hotter stove for cooking.
Not trying to disagree, but I have to say that before I started using my tablet properly I had to sit down and learn a totally new way of drawing. Using the tablet for pixels is something I've never really gotten used to, and using the mouse for brushes is something that I don't have much luck with either.
On the subject of being able to draw on paper, I am terrible at drawing with a pen and paper, much more comfortable with my tablet.
Ok, let's talk about bad part of models from Wacom - this is Bamboo series now, all A6 models:
active area pressure lvls prices (where I mean to buy)
Pen&Touch 4.9 x 3.4 1024 £ 70,0
Pen 5.8 x 3.6 512 £ 47,0
As far as I got, the P&T is a newer series and that's why it has more pressure levels, but why is the active area smaller!?
Btw this is not the official distributer for my country, the official has prices about £ 85 for P&T model and technically only sales wholesale (though my friend bought it by going to the shop directly so it is doable).
http://psd.tutsplus.com/articles/tools/how-to-choose-a-graphics-tablet-that-fits-your-needs/
Nice little discourse on how someone else came to their conclusion and some nice info+resources.
I bought one of those black Wacom bamboo, mainly to experiment with. It's quite nice, and the fact the pen doesn't need batteries is great. I don't use it that often tho and I've used it only in GIMP so far. I tend to stick with MSpaint and the line tool for some reason ;)
I'd like to add that I've used bamboos, cintiqs, intuos3's and intuos4's, and out of all of them, I prefer the intuos4. I find getting the correct angle on the cintiq takes a little getting used to. Intuos4 is perfect for what I do, digital painting and sculpting. Pixels, can't do it. Lineart, I prefer pen and paper. If I had the money for a Cintiq, I would get the 12-inch model. It's reasonably portable, you don't need a desk the size of brazil to use it on, the adjustment to the screen to cursor alignement is something I'm sure one would get used to.
I'd recommend for a starter to buy a small bamboo, but don't expect it to last that long under heavy use. The pens are cheap and break easily, and my bamboo's circuit board went all wacky after about 2 years of abuse. If you are serious about digital art, the intuos3's are a good reasonably priced tablet. Just not so good for widescreen monitors. A5's are probably a reasonable size for anything. I personally don't like using any bigger.