hey all you amazing people!

[ShortWlf]

Hey, it has been sometime since i have been working with AGS, i just downloaded and setup the newest version of AGS, and started plugging away an idea for a pirate adventure game, not like monkey island maybe more like kings quest style, with deaths, and choices, but with some of your humor and references to that kind of thing.

i wanted to share some screens to get some thoughts, what do you all thing of this sort of design?
also would like to pick your lovely minds on the thought of verbcoin vs sierra style gui?

heres some screens,





i have no name for the game as of yet, but i have story material, and plenty of ideas, all input is welcome, what do you all think? i love full honest opinions.

[CaptainD]

I really like the backgrounds, were they rendered in Blender or something and then made to look a little more pixelly (yes I know that's not a real word, but hopefully you get my meaning!)

I have to admit that I'm not a fan of verb coins, although there are several games I've really enjoyed that use them. If you want to go for a Sierra feel though perhaps that more classic style of Sierra interface would work better for you?

Just out of curiosity, because of your username, have you created any adventure games with SLUDGE in the past?

[ShortWlf]

Some of the graphics were made from 3d models then i used graphical editing software means by my own designs, and changes with gimp to keep the retro style of pixel art.

As of yet only have made project attempts, no full releases with this name, however i have had other project attempts on AGS that fell through over irl, and time, but i am very positive about this one, will consider verbcoin but i do like the classic sierra feel, wounder if it would be feasible to make it so the user can pick what they would like to use? i mean with that being said i have explored the possibility's of that, but maybe it would be a cool thing?

[CaptainD]

will consider verbcoin but i do like the classic sierra feel, wounder if it would be feasible to make it so the user can pick what they would like to use? i mean with that being said i have explored the possibility's of that, but maybe it would be a cool thing?

Yeah giving players the choice of what to use is always nice, I guess if you created the on_event handler in the right way it shouldn't create much (or any?) extra work in coding the rooms themselves. I don't know a huge amount about that side of things but there are plenty of super-helpful and very knowledgable people who would answer your questions on the technical side if you get stuck.

[eri0o]

Hey, there's a talk from Francisco here that may be useful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FC5ppRAsLl4

It talks a bit about the interface somewhere. I think there are interesting points!

Spoiler

Things like single click interface!

[close]

Your graphics feel AI-ish to me.

Ah, also the player character is standing like a soldier despite being dressed as a pirate, if you don't want to change it - I guess a real pirate would be more relaxed - you can write him a backstory where he used to part of the navy/army what was available at the era and for some reason decided to drop out of it and become a pirate.

[ShortWlf]

All great input, thanks for the video i will watch it over, when i add animations, the hands will look more relaxed, and he will have a more relaxed pose, the character and some of the assets were made from actually 3d models, rather then fully hand drawn, so i get why u feel like its ai-ish, i am happy with the art work honestly, its got that pixel adventure feel to it, kinda like the classic sierra games style, which is what i was shooting for, i really appreciate all the input i am getting, thanks for the comments, and suggestions.

[Ali]

Are you being honest when you say that those backgrounds aren't AI? Because there are lots of odd features and they look very unlike your 3D stuff.

I would say, the downscaling has left them quite fuzzy. If you're going for a classic look, that's something to avoid. But with painterly backgrounds and 3D characters, what's the benefit of low-resolution? Unless it's, perhaps, to conceal AI artefacts?

[Danvzare]

I would say, the downscaling has left them quite fuzzy. If you're going for a classic look, that's something to avoid. But with painterly backgrounds and 3D characters, what's the benefit of low-resolution? Unless it's, perhaps, to conceal AI artefacts?

Well sometimes you want to create a low-res game with proper painted backgrounds, much like the old VGA Sierra and Lucas Arts adventure games, such as Monkey Island 2.
...
Oh wait, this is a high resolution game with low-res backgrounds... and said backgrounds have some extremely odd choices that usually only an AI would do. (I could list them out if you want.)
Hmm, I think you're right and it's to conceal AI artifacts. 
He's probably using the Img2Img function to improve the overall composition, meaning the general layout is his. But that's just a theory.

Mind you, if he's somehow able to make a fully playable game using AI generated backgrounds, while ensuring that the interactable objects fit into the scene, then I say good luck. But only as long as it's both completely free and he comes clean about it.
Something I can say that I learnt from experience is that when you get caught out, just be honest. It's better if you explain it yourself than letting someone else do it for you.
We might seem to be anti-AI here, but you'll find that there's a lot more nuance to it than that.

Then again if you aren't using AI. Sorry for the accusation. Although it's kinda your fault for drawing the oddest looking skull-and-crossbones that I've ever seen (among many other strange mistakes that no one would make, not even me and I'm terrible at art).

[LimpingFish]

Undisclosed AI generated artwork should always be called out, and rightly so, even though it's pretty easy to spot. Not only, as others have pointed out, does it almost always give itself away, but, with a simple reverse image search, I can bring up not only some of the original art that may have been used to teach the AI, I can see other AI images generated using a similar prompt that are extremely close to what's being presented! I get the appeal of AI, but why endeavor to call the resulting artwork your own, when it's so derivative and soulless?

What is it about developers who want to use AI, but never want to admit to using AI?

Having said all that, I agree with @Danvzare; if you're using AI to augment your own artwork, then so be it and good luck with it. We're not here to tell you what to do, or how to do it.

But make it clear that this is indeed what you're doing, so that those of us who may wish to avoid the end product can easily do so.

[ShortWlf]

Are you being honest when you say that those backgrounds aren't AI? Because there are lots of odd features and they look very unlike your 3D stuff.

I would say, the downscaling has left them quite fuzzy. If you're going for a classic look, that's something to avoid. But with painterly backgrounds and 3D characters, what's the benefit of low-resolution? Unless it's, perhaps, to conceal AI artefacts?

i am not trying to hide anything, i said most of the art designs are 3d models i never said i did not use any ai or am trying to conceal it, i said i made the graphics by my own design methods, i dont use ai websites, i constructed my own tool for generating graphics, anyways thanks for the comments, about quality i personally like it and will keep the style in my design, i have had various opinions already mostly positive, yours is the first about it looking fuzzy, but thanks for the words and input always.

[ShortWlf]

The reason i am not outspoken and did not title it with partial ai development, is because some people take it to a witch hunt that all ai is bad, there is nothing wrong or bad about my design methods, take it as you will i just wanted input how people thought about the art style, and well i got my input.. thanks all again its well appreciated.

this is just a demo of what i can do with my design methods, to develop basic mechanics for a full game, this is just a play toy development project, hence why i don't have a name for this development, i have worked with 3d, or 2d.5 aka 3d converted to 2d type graphics, the partial ai developments i use in this example are fillers for me to make and design my mechanics, or put the scenes and scripts back together, i don't need to use those methods but i feel as i will because i am using my own methods again.

i would also like to make a point i have worked professionally doing graphic development for an actual game company, i know how to manually draw and make all this without using any ai methods, currently i am doing it to save time to put stuff together that i would use in a full point and click game, things have changed since i used ags, not everything but the way everything is conformed so i am rebuilding ideas, and things i had.

and the thought that i am up-scaling the graphics, because i don't want to use the 320x200 graphics is silly, for 1 that's a screenshot, for two i am not finished with up-scaling or down-scaling the graphics for a better look, rather then not fully managed images for whatever common resolution i would use, this is just a idea and input gather to make an develop a much bigger project, i appreciate all comments but i also do find it funny, that you guys think i was trying to hide the use of ai, i get it tho i imagine people try to lie and hide and dodge they are using it, i just was not fully outspoken about it, if i was making a full release game i am fully transparent about how it was constructed, as this is a free to play game i am making not a paid and contracted project.

[ShortWlf]

Here is some other screens from a 3d project i am making in unity engine, using adventure game creator, a sci-fi adventure game with space quest type vibes, one of the scenes i constructed in 3d after a space quest 6 scene, and i kinda remade my own time travel vehicle from space quest 4, thoughts on this type art style?

[Danvzare]

i am not trying to hide anything, i said most of the art designs are 3d models i never said i did not use any ai or am trying to conceal it

Really?
Then why did you say this:

the character and some of the assets were made from actually 3d models, rather then fully hand drawn, so i get why u feel like its ai-ish

You stated that you'd understand why it would feel "ai-ish", and that it's because it uses 3D models. Wouldn't someone who's not trying to conceal anything, just come right out and say "Oh, that's because I did use AI to help with the art." You clearly and intentionally implied that AI wasn't used, and now you're trying to gaslight us. 

The reason i am not outspoken and did not title it with partial ai development, is because some people take it to a witch hunt that all ai is bad

That's understandable. 
And I don't blame you for not mentioning it at first. Heck, that's the main reason why when I first heard someone calling out your artwork as AI, the first thing I wanted to do was jump in to defend you. It's also why I wished you good luck in your endeavours.

Thank you for finally being honest by the way. 
(I'm going to ignore the rest of your flimsy attempts at defending yourself. Just take the win and move on, ok. Don't dig a bigger hole for yourself.  )

Now time for that input that you wanted.
I think your screenshots look nice. You obviously need to use something other than a default pose for the main character, and you're going to need to put in a lot of effort to make sure the interactable objects fit into the scene. Also I really think you should zoom into the picture and actually photoshop (or should that be Gimp?) the little errors in the backgrounds before putting them into your game. If you're going to use AI as a tool to help you, then don't use it as an excuse to be lazy. If you want a list of things to fix on those backgrounds, I don't mind helping to point out the errors. 
It'll make the whole thing look nicer. And when using AI, you really want people to say "What? Really!? I had no idea it was using AI!"
Also I'd recommend using Inpainting for that skull-and-crossbones flag. 

[Ali]

I also think you implied you weren't using AI. I wouldn't have replied if you had been up-front about it, even though I don't think people should be using AI generated imagery.

Aside from the ethical problems, Adventure games are especially vulnerable when it comes to AI, because it takes almost no effort to produce superficially impressive artwork (which is the kind of thing you need to get a Kickstarter funded). But, on the other hand, AI is exceptionally bad at creating images that stand up to scrutiny, which is exactly what adventure games ask players to do. What is that stuff on the shelves in the cabin interior? It's all just vague gumpf that looks fine at a glance but will frustrate any player who tries to identify a single recognisable object. I would say it's a bad way to make an adventure game.

[ShortWlf]

i am not trying to hide anything, i said most of the art designs are 3d models i never said i did not use any ai or am trying to conceal it

Really?
Then why did you say this:

the character and some of the assets were made from actually 3d models, rather then fully hand drawn, so i get why u feel like its ai-ish

You stated that you'd understand why it would feel "ai-ish", and that it's because it uses 3D models. Wouldn't someone who's not trying to conceal anything, just come right out and say "Oh, that's because I did use AI to help with the art." You clearly and intentionally implied that AI wasn't used, and now you're trying to gaslight us. 

The reason i am not outspoken and did not title it with partial ai development, is because some people take it to a witch hunt that all ai is bad

That's understandable. 
And I don't blame you for not mentioning it at first. Heck, that's the main reason why when I first heard someone calling out your artwork as AI, the first thing I wanted to do was jump in to defend you. It's also why I wished you good luck in your endeavours.

Thank you for finally being honest by the way. 
(I'm going to ignore the rest of your flimsy attempts at defending yourself. Just take the win and move on, ok. Don't dig a bigger hole for yourself.  )

Now time for that input that you wanted.
I think your screenshots look nice. You obviously need to use something other than a default pose for the main character, and you're going to need to put in a lot of effort to make sure the interactable objects fit into the scene. Also I really think you should zoom into the picture and actually photoshop (or should that be Gimp?) the little errors in the backgrounds before putting them into your game. If you're going to use AI as a tool to help you, then don't use it as an excuse to be lazy. If you want a list of things to fix on those backgrounds, I don't mind helping to point out the errors. 
It'll make the whole thing look nicer. And when using AI, you really want people to say "What? Really!? I had no idea it was using AI!"
Also I'd recommend using Inpainting for that skull-and-crossbones flag. 

Lets start over here, we obviously got off on the wrong foot, i am not making anything solid with these they are only for "show designs" i have created, again this was to gather thoughts on the art style, to see if there was any positive feedback, and i have successfully got what i wanted.

"gas lighting"...? i did not state anywhere that this is a finished project or going to be used in an actual complete game, these designs were to see what peoples thoughts were on the art style attempt i did with this again "toy project", as i stated before this is not my first time with the AGS community, i know how to list and where to post a full project, "games in productions" is there is no "defense" for something that will never be a full product or finished.

digging a bigger hole, i was not aware gathering input about something is considered getting your self in trouble, i can only ask and retrieve input and get peoples feelings and input on the designs i make and comment accordingly, this was never an attempt to anger people, upset or make people mad, i was not attempting to hide anything however i was not fully outspoken on my og post because to avoid such controversy.

the input acquired by everyone it has been a good reflection on all of what we talked about, i thank everyone again for their outspoken comments truly about everything that was said it has given me a detailed insight of what is to be or could be from me using this type art-style, personally i agree with all of your comments, well other then the conversation of trying to hide something that was never going to be, but i 'fully understand' why it came to be a convo, and that was my mistake and i apologize if i made anyone mad or angry, that was not my original goal, i really like this community and want to be able to donate to it, and learn from it, which i have from this thread, thanks again everyone.

hopefully i can use it again and people don't just look past me gathering input in the future, and i fully understand if its ai related i can be outspoken here, and should include it in the title of the conversations in the future.