My goverment is lying about 9-11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848)
http://911revisited.infad.net/video.html (http://911revisited.infad.net/video.html)
And so are your link addresses, or at least neither of them works...
He's obviously being oppressed by "The Man".
This is very old news, isn't it? I wrote a paper about all this 2-3 years ago... While we're on the topic, though, check this out:
http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/unanswered_questions_911.html
I like the 9/11 pre-warnings section. :)
Your government is lying too?
Which government is that?
EDIT: I just had to check out the claim on projectcensored that the Kennedy administration planned complicit attacks on commercial airliners to justify a proposed invasion of Cuba. I finally found the Northwoods document here:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
This appears to be the worst suggestion:
"We could foster attempts on the lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized."
The airliner was to be an unmanned drone switched for a chartered jet with planted passengers.
Despicable, but hardly what was claimed.
Quote from: omgpreston on Sun 05/03/2006 17:09:01
My goverment is lying about 9-11
Did anyone really expect the government of Hypnotic Guitaria to be telling the truth?
Is this so reliable as that stupid internet theory that said that a little non-crew recon plane can make one of the wings of the pentagon collapse?
Or that theory which said that the second plane of the WTC was an american airlines craft copy made with the government and stuffed with dynamite?
Because if this links are going to take me to something simillar to that, I think I am going to waste my time is something better, like seeing how my plants grow...
Quote from: Pumaman on Sun 05/03/2006 17:43:27
Quote from: omgpreston on Sun 05/03/2006 17:09:01
My goverment is lying about 9-11
Did anyone really expect the government of Hypnotic Guitaria to be telling the truth?
very patriotic to President Sanchez. H. McGuitarHero's honourable democratic communist dictatorship arent you pumaman you damned anarchist
:'( "salute our heroes..."
Quote from: Tuomas on Sun 05/03/2006 17:16:07
And so are your link addresses, or at least neither of them works...
Try removing the "</a>"s from the end of his links. Foolish n00bs! When will you learn that SMFBB != HTML != phpBB???
Quote from: Farlander on Sun 05/03/2006 18:11:45
Is this so reliable as that stupid internet theory that said that a little non-crew recon plane can make one of the wings of the pentagon collapse?
Or that theory which said that the second plane of the WTC was an american airlines craft copy made with the government and stuffed with dynamite?
Because if this links are going to take me to something simillar to that, I think I am going to waste my time is something better, like seeing how my plants grow...
naw . and its not the one about bluescreen technology or aliens. It's the controlled demolition one. You probably heard some bunk theories, but this is all news footage that was on mainstream TV.
http://www.911revisited.com
yeah it was just the spaces before the [ that effed it up. Im not a code kid.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848
no but go look at your plants though.
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Sun 05/03/2006 17:25:02
This is very old news, isn't it? I wrote a paper about all this 2-3 years ago... While we're on the topic, though, check this out:
http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/unanswered_questions_911.html
I like the 9/11 pre-warnings section. :)
yeah thats gnarly. I wish it was old news. This still might be effecting america, maybe just a little bit.
It's the WTC building #7 controlled demollition one? That one that says that all the 9/11 was mounted to burn some papers incriminating Papa Bush is something dirty?
If so, it's crap, for 3 reasons:
a)That papers could have been took out of the scene in a so much easy way that arranging the 9/11...
b)That papers will surelly have a digital of physical copy somewhere, so, it should have been useles...
c)Papa Bush gives a fuck of all the stuf now!
Well Farlander, the majority of these theorys, in my opinion, fall apart when you ask one question:
"Why?"
As if the fact that there was a vast terrorist network that was able to orchestrate something as huge as 9/11 wasn't big enough, now people have to find something even bigger than that!
The goverment lied???
No way!
That's it ... I'm moving to Canada.
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 05/03/2006 19:24:00
Well Farlander, the majority of these theorys, in my opinion, fall apart when you ask one question:
"Why?"
Did you watch it?
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 05/03/2006 19:24:00
"Why?"
To provide a pretext to invade countries in the middle east?
I don't believe the conspiracies, but only because the administration seems too incompetent to pull it off.
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Sun 05/03/2006 20:08:29I don't believe the conspiracies, but only because the administration seems too incompetent to pull it off.
Or maybe that's what they
want you to think?
I have watched the Loose Change film on this and the question why works on that too.
"To provide a pretext to invade countries in the middle east?"
Again, why?
I am not going to watch this new film but does it answer why the US government would place bombs in buildings they knew were going to be hit by terrorists and then let the strike happen, when one could build a case for war off of STOPPING that strike and presenting the evidence [or doctored evidence if you wanted to attack Iraq]?
"I don't believe the conspiracies, but only because the administration seems too incompetent to pull it off."
That's the only reason you don't think the US blew up 2 buildings, let terrorists attack the US and killed thousands on Americans? Did they also kill all the demolitions experts that they hired to plan how to place the explosives inside the WTC? Then killed the people who placed those explosives? Then killed their families? Or are all these people just keeping quiet because the government paid them too?
If the film answers these questions, please tell me it does and I'll watch it.
The 200 billion dollars worth of gold seems to have vanished.
Eh, I think some conspiracies are created by governments themselves to keep the public going wtf....
The Truth Is Out There!
*transforms into Fox Mulder and runs into the night*
Also, the video must explain the hijacking of 4 planes by a suicide squad of the US delta force, because I am pretty sure that all that "Mohammed Atta is alive! he phoned his dad!!!111" stuff is related with the "theory" that there was actually not a terrorist strike...
Hmmm...I never knew that Mulder played Santa Claus for the ninja children...
I honestly don't know what to believe about 9/11. When it happened I was at school. Our class took us from the middle school to the high school campus, and we were late getting back to the middle school, so I came into english class about 10 minutes late. My teacher was reading something about a plane crashing into a building. And then we did nothing in P.E....and everyone got picked up by their parents. I had no idea why everyone was so freaked out.
Now...everyone hates Bush except my parents...who love him...and a few people who are completely neutral. So I don't really know...though I find it interesting to read about.
(http://plif.andkon.com/archive/wc285.gif)
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 05/03/2006 20:47:35
If the film answers these questions, please tell me it does and I'll watch it.
Just watch it you pussy. Its not going to hypnotize you. And I know you have the free time to, so don't even....
but anyway this movie is to make you question what happened, because the official report is bullshit and distorted. just tell me how a high rise building collapsed from a two story fire.
Quote from: omgpreston on Sun 05/03/2006 23:12:12but anyway this movie is to make you question what happened, because the official report is bullshit and distorted. just tell me how a high rise building collapsed from a two story fire.
The heat of the fire(s) melted/weakened the support structures of the building to the point that the load bearing members were no longer strong enough to support the weight of the building above them.
It's Ã, been explained severall times by people who is so much smarter than you, but if you want to believe a 12 minutes video, hey! I don't care... There are some other videos, like the "Roswell autopsy" (Just tell me how million of people have seen the UFOs and they can't be real, eh?!?)
Relax... Eric is not a pussy. He is probably the most reputated moderator, and not because we're a bunch of no-brain accollites who obbey the leader... But because he is respectable. He has proven to be smart and polite a million times here.
So, be careful when you call someone pussy.
Quote from: monkey_05_06Hmmm...I never knew that Mulder played Santa Claus for the ninja children...
You clearly missed the Christmas episode where Mulder had to save Santa from a Yakuza assassination attempt.
Quote from: FarlanderRelax... Eric is not a pussy. He is probably the most reputated moderator, and not because we're a bunch of no-brain accollites who obbey the leader... But because he is respectable. He has proven to be smart and polite a million times here.
What a shameless example of popular hero worship! I mean, just because I don't have a cheesy 80's superhero nickname like 'Mr. SuperFantasticBigGuy' doesn't mean I'm any less respectable and worthy of your undying devotion!
Really, Farlander, you cut me deep.
You do have my respect, and not just because of the nick... ^_^
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 05/03/2006 20:47:35
"To provide a pretext to invade countries in the middle east?"
Again, why?
That is a perfectly good reason in itself. You can answer "Why?" ad infinitum to anything, but that doesn't make it a good question.
Quote
I am not going to watch this new film but does it answer why the US government would place bombs in buildings they knew were going to be hit by terrorists and then let the strike happen, when one could build a case for war off of STOPPING that strike and presenting the evidence [or doctored evidence if you wanted to attack Iraq]?
We know that didn't happen. But perhaps it wouldn't be quite as convincing? There have been previous successful attacks (WTC, the Cole) that weren't "big" enough to change public opinion.
Quote
"I don't believe the conspiracies, but only because the administration seems too incompetent to pull it off."
That's the only reason you don't think the US blew up 2 buildings, let terrorists attack the US and killed thousands on Americans?
I was kidding. I don't believe the conspiracies.
However, they have shown themselves willing to lie to congress and the people to bring the country to "war" with Iraq, to send soldiers out there ill-equipped and without strategy, and to go on fund raising trips when they knew a major city might flood the next day and there wasn't a good rescue plan. So I wouldn't put too much past them.
Quote
Did they also kill all the demolitions experts that they hired to plan how to place the explosives inside the WTC? Then killed the people who placed those explosives? Then killed their families? Or are all these people just keeping quiet because the government paid them too?
Now those are good questions. "How?" rather than "Why?"
Quote
If the film answers these questions, please tell me it does and I'll watch it.
I don't know. I didn't watch it either.
Steve, what I mostly mean by "Why?" is that eventually you'll get to a point where you're making wilder and wilder conclusions as to why the US government would kill thousands of Americans.
And why me asking questions makes me a pussy is beyond me, maybe instead of trying to insult me you can answer my questions, omgpreston.
Quote from: MrColossal on Mon 06/03/2006 01:25:17
Steve, what I mostly mean by "Why?" is that eventually you'll get to a point where you're making wilder and wilder conclusions as to why the US government would kill thousands of Americans.
You said 'why?' Steve explained 'for geopolitical power', and you said 'why?' again. That's like asking why human beings desire safety. Geopolitical power is an end in itself, it's an extension of the most basic instincts of control and power and cannot be scrutinized further on that scale. Countries serve their best interests
because I don't know much about this theory, but I have no trouble believing that if it ment enough power and resources and a solid footing in the middle east, the american goverment would lie to, and kill it's own citizents.
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Mon 06/03/2006 00:35:26
However, they have shown themselves willing to lie to congress and the people to bring the country to "war" with Iraq
There is no such thing as a justified reason for war. Even when there was a insane scumbag like Hitler, countries ignored him until they were the next in line. Wars have no heroes or noble actions, only conflicts of interests. Bush is just a puppet for forces greater than the goverment and the congress. He just happens to be a nice scapegoat.
As long as you live as a part of society, you reap the benefits of wars and exploitation of others. I know I do. It is just easier to justify wars to people if they believe in right and wrong. And if they do, they deserve to be lied to.
As Hitler and/or the Nazis have now entered this thread, I declare it useless.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 05/03/2006 23:42:19
Quote from: omgpreston on Sun 05/03/2006 23:12:12but anyway this movie is to make you question what happened, because the official report is bullshit and distorted. just tell me how a high rise building collapsed from a two story fire.
The heat of the fire(s) melted/weakened the support structures of the building to the point that the load bearing members were no longer strong enough to support the weight of the building above them.
This is exactly true, especially in the Twin Towers case. Especially seeing that they supposedly short-changed the support of the building when they were creating it--though it was originally designed to withstand jet fuel burning temperatures.
However, they didn't make the same mistake when building the Pentagon, and the heat limit of the structural material was well over the heat of burning jet fuel... the Pentagon crash is much more of a controversy than the others in my opinion.
Whatever be the case, it's disturbing that we had so many direct warnings about this event before 9/11... finally up to the point where some officials were secretly told not to book any flights that particular day.
One disturbing aspect of the 9/11 theories (to generalize versus summarizing all of them, Govt. v. Civilians) is that a remarkable portion of the population, myself included, wouldn't be surprised if they had a semblance of truth.
In the PNAC document, there are many broad statements that have, more or less, predicted the actions of the US for the past several years. It mentions needing to establish a base of operations in the middle east, probably best done by revisiting the Iraq/Saddam problem. It mentions the "Evil" governments (as labeled by this administration) as being future threats. It also declares that the best way to get the US populations to advocate such a move would be a catastrophic attack by a hostile regime.
Do I believe the the US orchestrated the attack? No. Do I believe it took advantage of it, used people's fear and desire for reciprocation, to further their agenda. Yep. Our government has been, and is, crooked and cynical enough. There's really no need to paint them as something worse to the extent of sounding like hyperbole.
The US government would never do anything wrong because they are angels made out of gold.
I don't mean to make this political or anything, I just have trouble imagining how angels made out of gold could orchestrate this level of deception, and why. It's not as if the US has needed a reasonable justification for war in the past--just about anything will do--but you are asking me to believe that angels made out of gold did this?
First of all, it is highly unlikely that golden beings of any kind would be able to hire enough people and pay them off, considering their limited mobility and the likelyhood of them being dead. It is hard to breathe when one's lungs are made out of gold. Also, I think gold was the weakness of the cybermen or something, so even that is ruled out. The only way I can imagine golden beings creating this elaborate a deception is if they were robots, and that's just science-fiction hooey.
Also, they're angels, lets not forget. Angels always do what's right, even if it seems bad in the short-term. Like murdering every last citizen of Soddem and Ghommorah. I can't spell them because I have too much faith, btw. So even if they did fake the crashes (with some sort of golden angel magic) it would have to be in the better interests of God. Or Dick Cheny (Dick is God, which is why his heart is so bad, like in the Bible).
Also, the president of the gold angel children (they're also children, I forgot to mention that) of perfectdemocracyfairnesspowerland, who is also the best soccer player in the whole world would never allow Americans to die, as he did through slow response in New Orleans, or through beligerance in the continuing war in Iraq that even the majority of soldiers want to end. Or by executing people. Mostly because he is not alive (being made of gold) and an angel.
Also, I like freedom.
EDIT
I Forgot to mention that angels are neither alive or dead, being the scion of God (Cheney?) himself, so that just makes the problem more problemy.
EDIT EDIT
I just looked up "cat nunchucks" on google and there was nothing even remotely related! Mostly nunchucks or a cat! Maybe I should have looked up neko nunchuku. Hang on, I'll just check that.
EDIT EDIT EDIT
Useless! Sorry to move from the subject of this thread, but that is seriously some kind of social problem akin to this gold angel kerfuffle. Kefuffle should be the name of someone's cat. Here are some effective commentators on 911 and the problem with conspiracies : http://www.zmag.org/content/Instructionals/shalalbcon.cfm -- Please read the whole article, and also find some pictures of a cat with nunchucks so we can finally put this ugly time behind us.
Quote from: bspeers on Tue 07/03/2006 06:26:31
Please read the whole article, and also find some pictures of a cat with nunchucks so we can finally put this ugly time behind us.
Does this count?:
(http://web.archive.org/web/20040610050429/http://www.tkdkicks.com/gallery/albums/fun/Maddie_Kish_a_cat_with_Nunchaku.highlight.jpg)
(Found, incidentally, by googling cat
nunchaku, singular. See, you've just got to try all the combinations...)
Quote from: omgpreston on Sun 05/03/2006 18:51:22
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Sun 05/03/2006 17:25:02
This is very old news, isn't it? I wrote a paper about all this 2-3 years ago... While we're on the topic, though, check this out:
http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/unanswered_questions_911.html
I like the 9/11 pre-warnings section. :)
yeah thats gnarly. I wish it was old news. This still might be effecting america, maybe just a little bit.
Whoa, you used the word Gnarly. I havent heard that word since 19 dickity 2... And your name is OMGPreston... how sad... I feel sorry for your friends... If you indeed have any.
Watch out, omgpreston. Layabout is an undercover agent coming to take you away. You know too much already!!
Run, dude! Run!
Um bspeers... are you addressing me?
This is a pretty solid explanatory article.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
This more or less covers the little details of the conspiracy theory that "Loose Change" suggests.
IMO, the premise of the conspiracy doesn't make sense. If the government was trying to fake a terrorist attack, they would have imitated earlier attacks, not something as coordinated as this was. One plane would have sufficed. Anything more would have required lots of grunt work by more people and the possibility of more going wrong.
I guess it shows the city regulators a thing or two about the necessity of asbestos insulation along the support shafts.
Quote from: big brother on Tue 07/03/2006 16:10:48
This is a pretty solid explanatory article.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
This more or less covers the little details of the conspiracy theory that "Loose Change" suggests.
the editor and chief of that article is Michael Chertoff's cousin. I don;t know about you but I think that's a conflict of interest.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 05/03/2006 23:42:19
Quote from: omgpreston on Sun 05/03/2006 23:12:12but anyway this movie is to make you question what happened, because the official report is bullshit and distorted. just tell me how a high rise building collapsed from a two story fire.
The heat of the fire(s) melted/weakened the support structures of the building to the point that the load bearing members were no longer strong enough to support the weight of the building above them.
yeah you have good googleing skills, but can you explain how the third building collapsed?
I thought the WTC only had two towers, not three.
Edit: Oops, my bad, I realise you were talking about a different building.
Quote from: omgpreston on Tue 07/03/2006 22:38:42
yeah you have good googleing skills, but can you explain how the third building collapsed?
Already thoroughly explained in the article bigbrother linked to (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=5&c=y).
If you don't
believe the explanation, that's one thing, but then try to debunk it; don't just act like nobody's explained it.
[EDIT: Also, "the editor and chief of that article is Michael Chertoff's cousin" is not a debunking. That's an ad hominem (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html) argument, and does nothing to address the substance of the article.]
www.total911.info (http://www.total911.info)
(Sigh.) I don't have time to go through everything on that page, but I'll tackle the first link, about the collapse time. Whoever wrote that article doesn't know her physics at all. (I use the feminine pronoun because of the "janedoe" in the page name.) Yes, the main page claims she's a "professor of mechanical engineering" and a "PhD"; I wonder where they got that idea, since on her own page she chooses to remain anonymous. In any case, even if she does have a PhD in mechanical engineering, she's apparently forgotten everything she learned in basic physics.
For instance, her assumption that each floor will start effectively from free fall when the floor above hits makes no sense. This would be valid only if gravity were the only force acting on it. But it's not; the impact force from the floor above makes a huge difference! So the "free fall time" of each floor isn't relevant.
Another example: the bit about "momentum" shows a complete lack of understanding of elasticity of collisions. The balls-on-wires momentum demonstration that she cites represents an idealized example of a perfectly elastic collision, where (nearly) all the momentum is transferred from one ball to another in a collision. Most real collisions aren't that way; the collisions aren't perfectly elastic, and the colliding object retains a significant part of its momentum and doesn't come to a stop. Claiming that each floor would stop when it hits the floor below is completely ludicrous; the writer of that article has no idea what she's talking about.
Fer cryin' out loud, just posting random links to pages that make bad arguments about 9-11 isn't helping your case. That "Billiard Balls" page is complete and utter nonsense. As for me, personally, I'm more likely to believe forensics experts, working structural engineers, and professors of engineering than anonymous loonies who write incoherent webpages.
I don't like the Bush administration. I think 9/11 was handled very badly, not to mention Katrina and many other issues. But I haven't seen any credible reasons to believe that the Bush administration actually engineered the 9/11 disaster. And the links you've posted have done nothing to change that.
Quote from: MrColossal on Tue 07/03/2006 15:12:59
Um bspeers... are you addressing me?
I was going to link to that "you're so vain" song*1, but then, you might take that seriously as well.
Instead, just "no"
You don't even have paws.
Oh, and just to keep things on topic--cat with nunchaku? Pretty durn close, but it's still just a costume. Still, maybe I can sleep easily at night now that this national nightmare is over, or at least weakened in immensity.
*1 - The line about "you probably think this is about you," not the vain bit, that would've been rude :)
Was THAT post about me?!
Every post in the entire AGS Forums has been, in some way, about you.
Except one!
Now...you must find that one post!
Well, okay, maybe two...
Who are you talking too?!
THIS POST IS ABOUT YOU!
(Where "you"=whoever reads it. Or doesn't read it. That's right, this post is about everybody in the world! Hooray!)
So...I'm Mr Colossal now?
shit...
i watched all of that hour-and-a-half documentary and i have to tell you that it was quite interesting. i don't believe that everything in the video is true though it's a strong possibility that the government could be behind the thousands of deaths at 9/11 if you consider that bush is still forcing our troops to their doom.
also, i think that the part about faking people's voices was directly ripped off from 24. ;)
btw guys that's not a guitar in his avatar, it's a mic stand