http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/7002627.stm
I can't even formulate my thoughts, I just feel like I'm going to puke.
Jail? I'd fucking castrate the bastard.
27... I am like wtf!
How can such people even have jobs?
Quote from: radiowaves on Thu 20/09/2007 20:11:58
27... I am like wtf!
How can such people even have jobs?
Unfortunately people like that tend to have kids at age 15, and lots of them.
So let's castrate him before he can have any MORE.
I say give everyone who signs up for it the opportunity to urinate all over him.
Sometimes I really think public shaming should be reinstated. Put this guy on a busy square somewhere and let people throw rotten eggs at him, break his ankles and otherwise relieve the frustration actions like these invariably cause.
God I'd like to throw rotten eggs/urine at him... GRRR.
Hey, I thought this thread was about limbo dancing ;)
I would slightly agree with some of Voh's ideas, although i'm not sure about breaking his ankles..
Whee, another hate thread!
But this case lefts me comment-less, or rather -- speechless.
I cannot even join the happy castration team...
But I know that similar issues were dealt much effectively in earlier ages and eras.
If a knight would pee over sick and dying lady, well... news like this in civilized part of society (hell knows what peasants did live in) wouldn't have been simply possible.
This is our nice modern civilized and supertolerant/humane society that makes things like this possible.
Way to go, humane, tree/pervert-hugging hippie criminal-loving anti-death-penalty Eurosuckers.
What a wonderful world we have now. With cozy prisons and humane laws.
Dark, rotten, rat-infested castle dungeons were there for a reason, not to serve as museums centuries later.
But as saying here goes: Hunchback is only treated by a grave. There's no way going back, it gets worse.
This is the kind of person Darwin Awards were designed for.
But that would only count if he died, though.
"This is the kind of person we should forcefully enter into the Darwin Awards."
Now that's clear-cut talk! :D
He said it was youtube material, but I can't find it on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=man+urinates+on+dying+woman&search=Search).
Link?
Yeah, I could use a good wank too.
Seriously though, the idea feels just disgusting. and I don't mean the being urinated on or the fact that the guy urinated, but really having people that truly don't care. People who really can't pu themselves in someone else's position. Well I wish they would, be put, by force. I'm not in favor for punishment in those ways, but if this prick can't relate to what he's done, well... there are limits to my empathy too.
I've seen some videos of women enjoying getting pissed on ... It's out there.
Did this woman claim not to have wanted it to happen (before she died)? Perhaps, knowing she was dying, she wanted one last golden shower?
Who are we to take away her pleasure?
I might have found the video of this...
http://www.break.com/index/how-to-shut-girls-up.html (http://www.break.com/index/how-to-shut-girls-up.html)
:o
edit: Sorry if I offend anybody
That is so cruel... that man should die for that.
It seems like some of the latest posts in here are trying to answer the question in the title. I'm not really offended but none of these posts made me laugh either.
Quote from: voh on Fri 21/09/2007 00:41:12
But that would only count if he died, though.
"This is the kind of person we should forcefully enter into the Darwin Awards."
Kind of what he meant. I hope he does something similarly stupid to remove himself from the gene pool.
Quote from: voh on Thu 20/09/2007 21:10:07
I say give everyone who signs up for it the opportunity to urinate all over him.
Sometimes I really think public shaming should be reinstated. Put this guy on a busy square somewhere and let people throw rotten eggs at him, break his ankles and otherwise relieve the frustration actions like these invariably cause.
God I'd like to throw rotten eggs/urine at him... GRRR.
Shame on you. You turned out to be same as him, the thing you hate.
I opened this expecting a thread about aggressive limboing, but this is just awful. There's a reason I enjoy living far away from people.
Quote from: InCreator on Thu 20/09/2007 23:08:15
Way to go, humane, tree/pervert-hugging hippie criminal-loving anti-death-penalty Eurosuckers.
Just the time for me, a humane tree-hugging criminal-loving anti-death-penalty Eurosucker, to jump in and make everyone hate me!
No, seriously now. I'm still against death penalty, even for this guy. An intense psychologist treatment and/or imprisoning for life (LIFE, not the 15-year-thing we have here, or at least 30-40 years) and/or castration and/or humiliation should do.
So this humane criminal lover is okay with the guy being castrated and imprisoned for life (along with psychologist treatment :o ), but death penalty is a no-no?
This is depressing. And irritating. I'm pondering the question in the title also. It makes me want to lash out at so many things, wondering what on earth could have motivated this guy to do what he did. Thing is, I can well imagine many people taking that half-extra step to be acting like that: "After all, she was dying anyway", "After all, we were just having fun", "We didn't hurt her!", "She couldn't feel anything!". The very last moments of this woman's life were spent being degraded like that. The only thing I am thankful for is that the woman was hopefully unconscious.
I seperate cruelty towards those who don't deserve it and those who've chosen to deserve it quite clearly.
Say what you will, this guy needs some good, old-fashioned punishment.
For being a total dickwad.
What made it even more disgusting, if such a thing were possible, is that this dying woman was also mentally impaired. Her brother has said that she had the personality of a teenage girl.
Regardless, how can her family feel knowing that not only did she die on the street, but she had to experience this abhorrent degradation in her final moments?
There is no excuse for such a crime. Punishment should be swift and painful.
As much as despicable this act is... what punishment are you talking about??? Death penalty? Painfull? Torture? Prison? Castrated? Perpetual prison?
Sorry, I don' t agree.
I' d like to be treated in the way I treat people, wanting for the criminal the same punishement he made to me with his crime... With that rule of three this guy shouldn' t deserve a fisical punishement, or quitting his freedom, but something terrible humiliating make without any possible way to deffense himself, such as being naked and raped in the central city square, with a big pink dildo... But nothing else. Was that what you were talking about when you said "old fashioned punishment, Voh? If so, I agree... :) With the others, wanting more, I disagree...
Quote from: Nacho on Fri 21/09/2007 19:04:58
I' d like to be treated in the way I treat people, wanting for the criminal the same punishement he made to me with his crime...
In which case he should be made to near death comatosse and at that moment, all alone on the pavement, someone should come and piss on him... And then he should die...
Nia... I think life is better in this case.
Honestly, it could be that we are overeacting a bit: I mean, it could be that that nutcase didn't know she was dying. The pure fact that he pissed on someone is not SO AMAZINGLY dispictable. He was high, he was drunk... It's not impossible to happen.
Of course she
was dying, which makes things
for her impossibly worst and awful to the worst effect, but still it does seem that he was simply ignorant (and an awful person of course)
LOL someone peed on someone. Naughty naughty!
Twisted, but as someone said, Darwin Awards!
It's people like this who give cannabis a bad name.
but seriously.. it's just piss. she wasn't humiliated or degraded in her last moments of life she was just pissed on. it's just bodily fluid.
way to over-react. (to those of you who said he should have the death penalty or be castrated). kinda immature going that overboard.
He didn't "just" pee on her, however.
The man has been arrested and will face the consequences of his actions. Thankfully he was caught. He does not deserve to be raped in the public square. That is my opinion and the popular opinion of most countries. Hooray!
Quote from: Zor on Fri 21/09/2007 21:19:28
It's people like this who give cannabis a bad name.
but seriously.. it's just piss. she wasn't humiliated or degraded in her last moments of life she was just pissed on. it's just bodily fluid.
way to over-react. (to those of you who said he should have the death penalty or be castrated). kinda immature going that overboard.
QuoteHe tried to rouse her by throwing a bucket of water over her, before urinating on her and covering her with shaving foam. The incident was filmed on a mobile phone.
What if this was your mother? Or sister? What if they collapsed and were dying and some drunk kid decided to piss all over her? That's not humiliating or degrading?
It's not the bodily fluid that makes it degrading, it's the meaning of the act. It IS insulting and degrading. Like he didn't think of her like a human being. Does this mean he deserves to die or be castrated? Of course not. But he does need to understand that this was a living woman with a life and was in need, and his response was to treat her like she was nothing.
He is just a stupid kid, and stupid kids do stupid things. Hopefully he will take something away from all of this and learn some respect for his fellow man. I think his punishment should be community service, working with the homeless, or the mentally ill, to see that they are real people, not just cartoonish stereotypes that don't deserve respect.
Apparently, I started this "It' s not so serious" wave... Let me explain:
I think that it was disgusting, despicable, and horrible... But re-read my post. I only say that what was mentioned before (Castration/Death penalty/perpetual, etc...), was totally over-reacting.
Hope it' s clear now! ^_^
Quote from: Nacho on Fri 21/09/2007 19:04:58
this guy shouldn' t deserve a fisical punishement
+
Quotebut [something...] such as being naked and raped in the central city square, with a big pink dildo...
So you don't think it's fair to physically punish him but raping him with a big pink dildo is fine?
Dude..
Quote from: Zor on Fri 21/09/2007 21:19:28
but seriously.. it's just piss. she wasn't humiliated or degraded in her last moments of life she was just pissed on. it's just bodily fluid.
I'm sorry, but wtf?! I mean, seriously, has human decency sunk to such a level as to be so blaise about this? "It's just bodily fluid"?!
He poured water over her, pissed on her, and covered her with shaving foam,
while she lay dying. She was a mentally deficient middle-aged woman, for christ's sake! And his equally atrocious mate recorded it on his mobile phone!
If you don't equate pissing on a dying woman as a degradation, then something is very wrong with you.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 21/09/2007 21:32:00
He does not deserve to be raped in the public square. That is my opinion and the popular opinion of most countries. Hooray!
Well, yes, of course such punishment would not be proportionate in reality.
It was just the fact that somebody could do that to another human being, and act like he was taking part in some twisted Jackass stunt, is what left me so angry.
Nobody is going to behead him, or rape him. I'd repeatedly kick him in the balls, though.
Quote from: Nacho on Fri 21/09/2007 19:04:58
As much as despicable this act is... what punishment are you talking about??? Death penalty? Painfull? Torture? Prison? Castrated? Perpetual prison?
Sorry, I don' t agree.
I' d like to be treated in the way I treat people, wanting for the criminal the same punishement he made to me with his crime... With that rule of three this guy shouldn' t deserve a fisical punishement, or quitting his freedom, but something terrible humiliating make without any possible way to deffense himself, such as being naked and raped in the central city square, with a big pink dildo... But nothing else. Was that what you were talking about when you said "old fashioned punishment, Voh? If so, I agree... :) With the others, wanting more, I disagree...
Oh no. You are even sickier than that guy, we're all talking about. HE had to smoke some Mary Jane to think of doing his crazy stuff. But since I don't think someone would be able to post there after getting drunk or smoked, YOU have thought of all your stuff with clear mind! Who's sick now?
You all guys think that dude was sick? Look at yourselves.
Maybe you're next.
Maybe you will have the latest model of the world's best camera with you.
Don't drink, don't smoke, think good thoughts.
Quote from: Lionmonkey on Fri 21/09/2007 22:07:10
You all guys think that dude was sick? Look at yourselves.
Maybe you're next.
Maybe you will have the latest model of the world's best camera with you.
Don't drink, don't smoke, think good thoughts.
Now THAT'S just great! Well done on your post mate! :(
Quote from: voh on Fri 21/09/2007 21:39:39
Quote from: Nacho on Fri 21/09/2007 19:04:58
this guy shouldn' t deserve a fisical punishement
+
Quotebut [something...] such as being naked and raped in the central city square, with a big pink dildo...
So you don't think it's fair to physically punish him but raping him with a big pink dildo is fine?
Dude..
As far as it should be something humiliating, done while he is defenseless but not terribly painfull, with permanent effects, etc... He might even like it.
Quote from: Nacho on Sat 22/09/2007 07:26:17
Quote from: voh on Fri 21/09/2007 21:39:39
Quote from: Nacho on Fri 21/09/2007 19:04:58
this guy shouldn' t deserve a fisical punishement
+
Quotebut [something...] such as being naked and raped in the central city square, with a big pink dildo...
So you don't think it's fair to physically punish him but raping him with a big pink dildo is fine?
Dude..
As far as it should be something humiliating, done while he is defenseless but not terribly painfull, with permanent effects, etc... He might even like it.
Haven't you already understood, that by humiliating him, you will become equal to him? There will be no difference, you will be the same.
Except, that that guy smokes weed.
I think it's a bit different doing it to a person who is innocent and defenceless than to someone who really deserves it and has to take responsibility of what he has done.
However, I'm not going to be there to accept this public assrape.
Prison shall do. They'll most likely "take care" of the rape thing there, anyway ;)
So, Lionmonkey, the general member' s opinion is moving to "Kill him, imprison him for the rest of his life, castrate him, etc..." to "If we do the same to him, you' ll be equal to him"? Phew...
Look, don' t be too picky about my "rape him in public" thing. I wrote something silly in a friendly atmosphere just to say that "Imprison him for life, killing him, or castrate him" was going too far... even considering that it was a horrible crime, what was told to be made to him, was going too far.
It always amazes me how so many are willing to vent their medieval view on justice and the making thereof. And when other more reasonable people tell them that public humiliation, castration and other means of torture cannot possible bring civilization forward, they always get the response "What! Do you sympathise with the culprit or what?" "What if it had happened to your mother!!?".
To me it's pretty obvious that most people who start shouting - in the most mob-like manner - about public and immediate execution, egging or castrating or whatever mostly do so to gain higher moral ground, scared of being accused of something themselves, relieved for not being targeted. (The movie "Little Children" does a great job on describing this phenomenon.)
I don't believe society or civilisation would gain anything from turning back our judicial system 2-3 centuries or more, to the times when people were expected to take great delight in public punishment, and when justice was carried out on a whim, as the result of someone's momentary state of mind.
And trust me, my sympathies for the elderly and disabled are unassailable - I chose to work with them for years and years while most people around me took telemarketing jobs or tended bars.
Well said, Andail.
And most of the times the calling for medieval punishments is one way of letting out frustration concerning the fact that if I'd been anywhere near that, and seen it happen, I would've given the guy a swift right hook to the face.
But I wasn't.
And therefore I can only use words.
If people think I'd really (not just me but everyone who responded likewise) do any of those things, the problem lies with them, not with me.
Indeed. And to reply specifically to Andail...
Quote
It always amazes me how so many are willing to vent their medieval view on justice and the making thereof. And when other more reasonable people tell them that public humiliation, castration and other means of torture cannot possible bring civilization forward, they always get the response "What! Do you sympathise with the culprit or what?" "What if it had happened to your mother!!?".
My "medieval" view on justice is simply a frustrated response to an abohorrent act commited in broad daylight amidst "civilized" society. Of course none of these punishments are going to actually be carried out upon this person. As human beings, we have evolved beyond automatically reponding to our darker impulses when faced with something that enrages our sense of justice/decency/humanity. It doesn't mean that can't vent that rage by airing our feelings
I haven't seen a specific case of anybody turning on anybody else's "resonable" view in this thread. My reply to Zor was in response to his apparent nonchalant view of urinating on somebody so obviously in need of help.
Quote
To me it's pretty obvious that most people who start shouting - in the most mob-like manner - about public and immediate execution, egging or castrating or whatever mostly do so to gain higher moral ground, scared of being accused of something themselves, relieved for not being targeted.
The ambiguity of this statement is both perplexing and intriguing. Maybe I'm missing something.
Regardless, the ability to appear "reasonable", and perhaps even expound pacifism,
after the fact requires very little effort and tells us nothing, beyond giving us an oppurtunity to misconstrue a similar intent of ulterior motivation.
EDIT: I'll take this opportuninty to explain my reasons for starting this thread in the first place. Simply put, and maybe even rare for me, I was upset. As I read this story I became increasingly nauseous. I felt an anger towards, not only the person who commited the crime, but towards the society's increasing Youtube-fired mentality of "Pain is funny when it happens to Someone Else".
I even asked myself what I would have done if I had witnessed this happening. Would I have reacted violently to this person, perhaps even to a dangerous level? My anger would drive me to, but I doubt I would. It's not in my personality. I'd try to help the woman, as any decent person would. Of course, other people may see red and go straight for the jugular.
It's an animal response, no doubt, and an old world "justice" that we as a civilized society has, one would hope, left behind. But such a response is still very much a part of us, and how we react when it makes itself known is hard to predict.
I expressed it by venting my anger in a post.
Medieval torture methods... though I think that they actually work (Middle Eastern examples?) - unlike modern systems, there's a punishment WAY worse due our informational era... than simple torture.
Simply, the criminal's name and photo should be published in press.
I'd like to see that guy have a social life or get a job for next 10 years.
Anger towards that guy is completely understandable and justified and so is the need to vent your anger. No need to lecture people and ridicule natural human reactions to a horrific crime.
Yet some feel it's needed to distance themselves from the anger venting and thereby clumping us all together as people who are scared of being accused of something ourselves.
Your deeper analysis, Andail, is flawed. It's normal human instinct to want to retaliate for something that angers us deeply enough to go "WHAT THE FUCK" when reading it, yet it's human evolution to stop there where the words end. Judging us based on what we posted in anger (egg him! castrate him! break his ankles! publically rape him! (that one disturbed me, even..)) just shows that you're not able to put things in context and thereby have taken the "higher moral ground" yourself.
Wow. Talk about irony. The guy saying we're trying to take the higher moral ground did so himself by saying that.
Heehee :P
Don't you want to "deprogram" yourself of the "normal human instinct" to want to retaliate? Not starting a fight, just asking. I try to do this all the time personally. When there is something that humans seem to do as some sort of defense mechanism that goes against logic or how I want to actually behave I like to deconstruct it and see if it fits with the Eric I desire to be.
Kneejerk lashing out at something is what I've tried to repress because it usually never ends up good.
Personally.
Quote from: LimpingFish on Sat 22/09/2007 21:36:55
I even asked myself what I would have done if I had witnessed this happening. Would I have reacted violently to this person, perhaps even to a dangerous level? My anger would drive me to, but I doubt I would. It's not in my personality. I'd try to help the woman, as any decent person would. Of course, other people may see red and go straight for the jugular.
Maybe you wouldn't be driven to a dangerous level of aggression, but what if you were in the middle of a mob of people? I'm reminded of a story I read about a while back:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PSKSDO0&show_article=1
Basically, at some large public gathering, a man hit a child with his car. The child sustained non-life threatening injuries. But the crowd around him was enraged and tried to attack him rather than wait for the proper authorities to handle the incident. Another man tried to stop the mob and was killed. The driver got away and is cooperating with investigators.
Now, not only does the driver need to be investigated for his dangerous driving, but the members of the mob need to be investigated for the killing of an innocent bystander.
In real life I hardly ever get aggressive. I only get aggressive when I'm as sure as I can be that whoever it's aimed at deserves it. I.e. a guy who hits a girl, and I'd try to just push him away first. I don't really throw punches.
And Mr. Colossal, of course I try that, but from time to time it's also good to indulge and just let the frustration out. Choosing a verbal and not-directed-at-asshole approach seems to work for me. Everybody has their vices, and everybody has their way around them.
This is mine :)
We still talking about this guy?
Internet notoriety is what he wanted. By keeping this thread alive we are helping him achieve his sorry excuse for an ambition.
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 23/09/2007 01:49:15
Don't you want to "deprogram" yourself of the "normal human instinct" to want to retaliate?
We should strive to understand our behaviour and force ourselves to change it if needed, but in this case I don't see a need to reprogram our behaviour. The methods suggested might be "medieval" and I don't agree with most either but I think throwing some virtual eggs at that son of a bitch is a good therapy. Repressing emotions is unhealthy. It's better to let them out in such a way that nobody gets hurt, like in this topic.
That said it's good that we don't get too carried away and have people who remind us that we should keep the egg throwing in text form. But let's not be patronizing.
Quote from: Vince Twelve on Sun 23/09/2007 02:04:55
Maybe you wouldn't be driven to a dangerous level of aggression, but what if you were in the middle of a mob of people?
Interesting point. But can any of us predict how we would react if we allowed ourselves to be swept up by a mob? I like to believe my personality, as a responsible individual, would enable me to retain my individuality and my humanity. It certainly wouldn't be in my nature to wilfully engage in violence of any description. But who can say for sure? That's my point about the darker side of of the human psyche. We haven't evolved beyond these feelings.
What seperates us from the animal is
how we allow these feelings to manifest, and ultimately our control over them. But to deny that they exist, or that repressing these feelings is what makes us human, isn't the answer.
Well, I can totally understand the sudden frustration caused by the thought of deeds like this. If I had been there when it happened I would also get the impuls to punch him in the face, and would certainly not try to stop anyone in the process of doing so.
But from that certain situation to writing posts on the internet is a pretty long step; and furthermore similar stuff happens every minute.
I'm not trying to say that you should opress your frustration, or that anger is something beastial. My point was that people who are very obstinate about punishment (and the overly forgiving attitude of your country's judicial system, etc) are a bit suspicious in my eyes. I can only relate to dinners or parties I've been to when the person ranting most audibly about how they'd like to do this and that (torture, execute) to a specific (often only alleged) perpetrator, and how they'd love to change the laws so that criminals could be publically spanked or whatnot, is always the most trouble-minded, frustrated and least sympathetic of those present. It's like they can't express clearly enough how righteous and innocent they are themselves - like an obsession, a complex.
The problem I addressed in my previous post was that whenever someone else steps in to argue whether harsher punishment is really the solution, they often get comments questioning their moral fibre or sense of justice.
It's ok to be pissed off, to want to beat up people and be frustrated, it's perfectly normal. But when justice gets an obsession to someone, I'm just hearing warning bells.