I bet you didn't see this coming (Part III)

[Nacho]

Hello friends of AGS...

Here comes a long post about feelings, so, if you don't feel in the mood of saying something positive, please, please, stop reading because I have a feeling of complete sorrow and the last thing I need is someone making jokes of my situation. I will post it in hidden, so, only those who are really interested in the topic or those who know me can read it...

Spoiler

Here's the thing: After 9 years of relation with my beloved friend Lorena yesterday we finished. Some of you, those who have seen us together might say "What? How? You seemed to be so in love!". Yes, it's true. Lore is the person I know I will love more than anybody else in my life. Period. But one thing is to love, and the other thing is to be enamoured. I am not... And it hurts. I would really like to be in love with her, and save her the two terrible days I made her pass this weekend, when I realised of my real feelings (or, to be honest, when I decided that my real feelings were too strong to go on living this lie).

She is kind, polite, she makes me smile, I am happy when I am around... Same as some of my friends do.

But I don't want a friend... I want a girlfriend, it' s different.

I felt like that for a long time ago, maybe 3 or 4 years, but I felt quite comfortable in that situation: I consciently decided to go on with her, even not being in love. She was my little baby, and I was his "dad". To the few people I explained this situation told me that I was not acting correctly, even seeming for me the best option at that moment. Now I see they were right, but if I did what I did, it was by some reasons... let me post them:

I started with her when she was 16... She was quite mature for her age! She had two working parents, and she was taking care of the home almost alone, with not even a little attempt of help of his bother.

His brother is quite intelligent at manipulating his parents. He does not help at home, or even try to get good grades for them to be proud of him, but he is diplomatic with them, he is a good "buddy" of his dad and the "right eye" for mom. It doesn't matter he brings lots of fails in the last grades; He told his dad "Dad, I want to go biking with you!" and the home is full of joy for some hours (He never finally go biking with his dad). Lorena is just the opposite. Worker, studient, selfless... But she is not good at getting along with her parents. She brings good grades, and she receives a short "congratulations". Some minutes after she gets a ruction because the table hasn't set up propperly. Totally unfair.

As an example, once, the "kid" decided to do the Island-Benidorm swimming journey (A local 4 kms. swimming journey) When Lore saw how proud her parents was of doing the journey, she said "I want to do it!". Her face was a face of total illussion... Her mom's reply was "How dare you to want to do it, you are too lazy". Her expression changed to a total illusion to total sorrow... Even not being "in love" with Lore I wanted to be there for those moments... I really wanted to support that girl I love.

As an example. when I started dating Lore, I went to swim a whole summer with Lore and her bro. After two weeks we lost the bus to come home ALL THE DAYS because his brother was too lazy to shower quicky (He was like 40 minutes having a shower) I told his dad, before knowing how he was: "Toni, if he does not have quickliest showers I am going to pick up the bus without him". I thought he was going to support me, his son needed a lesson and needed to be educated.
His reply? "You will do what you want, but her older sister will be with his brother, no matter how he lasts, because she is older and he is a kid (He was a 1,75 m and 85 kilos 14-year old teenager...). But don't worry... I will talk with him and you have my word he won't be late again". We went to swim 90 days. We arrived to the bus on time 2. From that moment I knew the value of my "father's in law's word".

I realised of this and I decided to give Lore the love she does no find at home. She was living a hell at home. I wanted to be a good samaritan and rescue her.

She has not real friends... she is not so kind with people as she is with me, or with Jeremy (She needs to feel totally confident to show how loving and kind she is...), and I don't like that. Some months ago I realised that I was being too protective with her, and I decided to give her some "homeworks". "Meet the old friends again, make a "best freind" apart from me. Show to my parents how lovely you are, talk to my mom, come here to cook once a week, come here to sleep with me from time to time!". She said yes to all, she recognised she needed to do that for being a better person. She did nothing... all excuses:

She cooked once (I assisted her, actually... Which was great, I am happy being with her at the kitchen...) but she forgot to do it the following week.
She only came once to sleep... Because "her parents look her weirdly" the following day. Man, she is 25!!! She has the perfect right to come to sleep with his bf if she wants! She can leave home, if she wants!.
She did not help at my home, (And when I say she did not help I mean that she was leaving the pijama in the same place she took it off, at the floor, or never sat up the table... I am not meaning that she did not clean, or made the ironing... I was demmanding something very reasonable). She was "too tired" of helping at "her home" to help at mine. Okay... She was deciding she preffered to be a slave at her home than being sheltered, secure, at mine. It's a symptom.
And her idea of "getting new friends" was to chat with people at the internet... Sorry, I do it as well, and I appreciate to all of those who hear the problems of people when a friend open your chatbox... But "getting out of the eggshell" is not chatting with a friend when I am at the same room... I had a problem of space too.

So, I realised that she didn't really loves me. She wants me as her support, but nothing else. She can't see it now... But I think it's the best option. Then I met a girl. She was the girl I was with before I started with Lore, 9 years ago... She still loves me, and she wants to do everything for me, even renouncing to her dreams of getting off the country to go on studying... In the balance I have a girl who wants to give everything for me... In the other a girl who does nothing to get away from a situation she hates for me... I am sorry... I tried for some months to go on with Lore, but the weight of one plate of the balance is too high.

What do you think?

[close]

Thanks for the support, guys.

[Misj']

Hay Nacho,

I'll give my answer hidden as well in the hope to prevent idle talk, jokes, etc.

Spoiler

I'll stick largely to the last paragraph of yours, but before I begin just let me say the following:

It's better to be unhappy alone than unhappy together. By that I mean, that one can be unhappy when alone (because of the wish to have a partner/love). It sucks...I think most of us agree on that. But it's still better than being with someone who just isn't right for you (or vice versa), and ending up unhappy together with someone else.

However, as for the other girl...if the only way to be happy is to stand in the way of her dreams then I'd say: take a step back; dreams are too important. But let's face it: the waited nine years for you (at least apparently in her heart she did)...I'm pretty sure she won't punish you for letting her follow her dreams.

Of course it might lead to you having to follow hers as well. But hay, if that's too big a sacrifice than you're not meant for each other (not saying that you should drop everything and follow her...following a dream can be done in many different ways!).

[close]

I cannot tell you what the best course of action is (you can ask my wife, and she will tell you that I very often don't know (or at least don't act upon it)), but in the end: try to be a gentleman, put others before yourself (without neglecting yourself), and while things don't always come easy...they still come.

Misj'

[Nikolas]

Spoiler

Farl...

These sound weird. I wasn't exactly sure on MSN, but here as well.

There are a few core issues that seem to be problematic... I'm not great at relationships: I only had one before I got married and I happened to mary the same gf I had my first relationship with! Evi! So the following definately does not come from the right 'adviser'! But here goes.

1. There is no discussion whatsoever about your sexual relationship. I know it's private, I know that I shouldn't be asking (and I'm actually NOT asking for any details), but it does seem weird to not have your gf sleep in your place after 8-9 years of relationship.

2. It also seems rather heavily, from your words at least, that she was 'using' you somehow. It may very well be that she had phychological needs and thus she was doing that, but did she really do things for you, or just enjoy your shields?

3. Portecting a younger person is always great. Being her 'tutor', her cherrished protecter serves great. But it's not exactly the best foundation for a relationship, let alone one that lasted 9 years! Relationship needs respect from both parties, and it seems that yours was based on some kind of 'pity' from your behalf and extreme needs from her part.

4. Your new gf is your old gf before Lore? Wow! This doesn't sound exactly right. Not from any kind of moral view or anything like that. But after 9 years you both remembered each other and she still loves you and wants to go out of the country with you, etc? And you want the same? Could it be an illusion of reliving the past after feeling down?

[close]

Everything hidden is just opinions based on what you wrote, Farl.

Apart from that good luck to all three of you. Being happy and being well (with the literal meaning of the word: having everything ok with you and everyone you care about) is all that one can wish. You seem to be on your way to 'being well', so you're doing alright I guess.

[SSH]

Spoiler

I find its usually best to express these things as "I" messages:

I wanted more of her attention
I didn't like cleaning up her pyjamas
I want that she stays over more

rather than to make the assumption that any of my desires not being met is due to an emotion or lack of emtion on another person's part.

[close]

[Andail]

I agree with SSH - although I refuse to write my message as if it were a game spoiler.

Nacho, my sympathies, mate, I know how it feels. Right now you feel like you've failed her, or even betrayed her, but in the end you've done the right thing. Relationships shouldn't be built on pity alone - nor should they assume the shape of tutor/apprentice.

Realising that you can't be her father anymore may be what actually pushes her to pursue an active life of her own; one filled with friends and activities.
Relationships that begin when someone is 16 are bound to either undergo long breaks or simply end, it's just pure statistics.

My advice for now is to not rush into a new relationship immediately. I second Nikolas' notion that it sounds slightly odd how willing your old girlfriend is to instantly be involved with you again, having loved you all those years. Ask yourself why you two broke up in the first place. Be sure not to get another "daughter" around your neck...

At least try the market for a while, enjoy being single, date women, relieve some stress

[Nacho]

Thanks for the advices... Man, I have a lot of friends here in AGS, and I wanted to share with friends, I knew that the *hide* spoiler was just a way to be polite... I want to share this, so, hide feature off.

I want to clarify something that apparently created missunderstood. The girl I met was not my "girlfriend". She was a friend and a girl I was with (for one night) one month or so shortly after starting with Lorena. Apparently just "another" night success. That was 9 years ago, I think...

But after some years I started to call her, in my mind, the "rubber duck". She was not the girl I was most hooked up, or the one that made me feel worse, or better... But her image came back to me once or two per year, as a rubber duck that always manages to float in the water, no matter how deep you push it. That was a symptom, I didn't know that.

She did not want to "rush" a relationshin inmediatelly after me finishing a 9-year old one... She didn' t actually that she was in love with me. She just made me "feel" she was, not by words, but by actions: I explain: She is a geologist, or she wants to be, and her dream was to go to Mexico, South Africa, Australia... When we started to chat I told her that she had to go, that even if I fell in love with her I wouldn't allow her not to accomplish her dreams. It should be a "torpedo" in our relationship to start it being me just an abstacle for her dreams. It should have been too shellfishy and she should have never forgiven it.

But suddenly one day she told me that her dream was not to do that anymore... That dream was vanished, replaced by me. So, she never told me "I love you" (She is very reluctant to use those words) but something she was acting like she was... That's more than I was feeling with Lorena (see the examples I gave to you before). One girl was saying "no" to something "good" for her. The other was not saying "no" to something "bad" for her. I think it's impossible to compare.

So, thanks... We will start slow. We even might not start at all! But, at the moment, we are "happy" together, so, I don't see no reason for not dating! The "usual" things "officially engaged" people do, like dating with the parents, spread it to the 4 winds, etc...? No.

I wrote the 3 or 4 things that annoyed me of Lore... but they are just 3 or 4 things in 9 years... It's very few! I love her, so, please, no reproaches or to side on with a part! I still love her, so, I just have the message: "Staying with her (for the wrong reasons) would, in the end, hurt her more".

I agree... But she is still the lovely girl that you met. If you ser in msn, or in any chatroom or something, be sure to say hello to her with my blessing.

thanks for the words of support.

Nacho.

[Darth Mandarb]

Hang in there amigo.

I've been in a [near] identical situation before.  It hurts, even though you're doing what you know is for the best, you are hurting somebody very special to you and that just sucks.

I love Lore to the end of the world and back (so I didn't mind the text messages at 2am this morning!).  I don't want to see her hurt.  But, like the ultra-wisdom you quoted above, in the end you'll hurt her more by staying with her for the wrong reasons.

[Nacho]

Thanks Jeremy.   and  :'( at the same time.

Hey, I didn't read carefully Nik's post... Specially point 2.I think she was so "happy" under my shelter that she never really needed to look for more supports... So, in spite of her being quite mature for her age when she was 16, now, with 24 she is not mature at all. So, I think it is time to "fly alone". Specially when I told her this problems a lot of time ago, probably 2 or 3 months ago, and she promised to do little steps to change this and she didn't make any of them. I was really open to have patience, but she was quite "inmobilistic". To be honest, I think she "likes" to be in the bad situation she is at home... Sounds weird, but I have been for years offering a hand, and she did not take it. For the last two months I have virtually crying "Take my hand, I must go!!!" and she didn't, so, I think that *My hand* is not the one she needs... Maybe she needs to get out of the hole alone. Hope I am right.

[Creed Malay]

Oh man, Nacho.
I really don't know what to say but to offer you any support you think I could offer, man. Hold hard, small friend.

[Nacho]

Thanks Davy... It has been always obvious that you have a golden heart, now we just do have another evidence...

[m0ds]

Sucks dude, sorry to hear it

So, I realised that she didn't really loves me. She wants me as her support,

I know exactly what you mean. It's the same with a girl I hang out with at the mo. I love her to bits, I know I'll never love another girl like I can her - and I really, really want to love her properly, go out with her etc...but she doesn't want any of it, just my "support". If its any consollation, I'm really depressed at the mo no fucking thanks to women.

I hope everything works out for you Nacho, and also for Lore, cos you're both great people I'll probs even shed a tear, cos it just won't be the same seeing you on your own, and Lore always said how she looked forward to my greeting hug! And that means a lot to me.

Sadly, nothing lasts forever Shit does, crap we don't care about. But the stuff closest to us, that we actually have feelings for, gone. They took away my stargazing bench here in town too and that's really put me in a bad mood, because there are a hundred ones elsewhere that should be removed...gah. Well, whatever happens - I hope the road ahead still brings you plenty of happiness

[Stee]

Hey Nacho/Farlander,

I know we've never met/spoken to each other, so I suppose theres not much worth in my comments.

From what I've seen from the Mittens photos, you've always both seemed happy and come across as a typical and established couple, so based on that (I know thats a vague thing to base on), this slightly baffles me.

From what you've said, it's clear there are insecurities that lie with her, whatever they may be (a rough childhood by the sounds of it).

It appears that she's slowly become dependant upon you, the security you provided her eventually became her relying upon you for everything.

It's a shame this came to end, as I always so you as the AGS couple. I feel for you mate, breakups aren't nice and 9years is a long and difficult chapter to close.

On a brighter note, theres hope that maybe the removal of this dependance upon you will make her stronger within herself (she's going to have to become independant and self reliable I guess) and hopefully she will get to acheive what she wants to do, become a stronger and more self confidant person, and I hope soon you 2 will be back together happy as larry.

I really feel for the both of you.

Good luck guys. All the best

Stee

[mouthuvmine]

Hey, it sucks, but I know you did the right thing for her. This really surprised me, because even though I only met you guys for a couple hours at Mittens, I could see how you guys were together, and it was especially telling how everyone one else there treated you both, almost like you were one entity. So, as I said, I know you did the right thing,for you her AND yourself, but I'm sorry it didn't work out as it could have.

[InCreator]

You did the right thing.

Your post is all about feeling being rejected and for a knight fighting dragons and jumping over lava pits - as you measure yourself in this relationship - rejection is worst outcome. Plus, it's most awful way to make loving man feel. You will never be happy in this.

Since you're a good-looking, quite proud and selfish male (of what I read), it's all about sex anyway... I don't buy most of the story, because man starts to find mistakes in loved woman if he's being humiliated himself. Not earlier. I think you're seriously butthurt and your brain varies between "maybe I should try harder" and "no, there's no point in it", even though you already made a choice.

Well, there isn't. Trying more will cause harder failure.

You're both quite young so it's far from end of the world anyway.

[Nacho]

Thanks guys... For my side, I am almost ok, almost at 100%... When I think how she must be I feel totally depressed, the house is full of memories, she designed my computer room, the blankets on my bed are hers... But every word I read telling me she will get better then with me help a lot. I've spoken with friends and some of them told me that this will be the best thing I could do for her, and I was watching their eyes and I know they were true, so, I know you are telling me the truth and not just anything for cheering me up.

Those who have her at facebook can tell something in that direction, too... And show her that people, not just me, love her. I would appreciate it.

Thank you people.

[monkey0506]

Nacho my friend I can say this as a completely heterosexual male who is utterly confident in my sexual preference: You are sexy as hell. If I was a chick (and/or gay/bi), I'd "hit it." 8)

I know how hard it can be dealing with relationship issues. The sheer duration of your relationship with Lorena is more than I can honestly comprehend. I've had one "girlfriend" (yes, despite all my own "about-a-girl" threads, I've had only one). And I insist on putting that in quotes because of the type of person she was.

I was actually in a similar situation with this particular girl. She was a chronic liar. I lied to myself so that the relationship could go on. It feels good having someone who pays attention to you. Someone who says they care about you.

Ultimately I broke up with her. I'd rather not elaborate on some of the things she told me, but what always bothered me the most about it was the fact that none of it was ever real. She was the first (and only) girl I ever kissed. She was the only girl (in real life) who has ever given any indication she had the remotest inkling of romantic interest in me. And it felt good.

But I tend to shoot for honesty. I don't think there's a point being in a relationship with someone if they can't be honest with you. Which is why she and I are no longer "together".

If you honestly feel like Lorena is just using you for some sense of stability in her life then I think you made the right move. I don't know her side of the story so my opinion could be somewhat biased. I assume that you've talked it over with her and made every reasonable attempt to bring forward her true feelings on the relationship.

From what I've seen you seem like a pretty decent enough guy. I wish you the best of luck with everything.

[Miez]

Nacho, mi amigo ... I must say I wasn't completely surprised when this news came. I knew trouble was brewing at Mittens.

Still - this really sucks. I haven't been in the exact same situation, but I have been in similar situations and it simply always hurts. There's no easy way around it.
I also understand your decision - being great friends is NOT the same as having a romantic relationship (hell: I'd have a harem if that were the case ). I am sad it came to this - you did seem great together, but on the other hand I hope this decision opens new ways for you both.

Hang in there.

[ManicMatt]

*hugs*

[Pumaman]

Nacho, I'm really sad to hear this. You and Lorena have been together as long as I've known you and from the outside you've always seemed such a cute, perfect couple.

But you know how you feel and if this is the right move for you both, then it's a move that you have to make. I can't imagine how hard it is for both of you ending such a long-term relationship; so many memories and experiences together that I'm sure you'll keep with you for the rest of your lives.

All I can do is wish you both luck and I hope you both find what you're looking for.

[miguel]

Dear Natcho,
you were brave deciding to end a situation that wasn't true in its essence.
Clearly both of you have good friends to give you support and time will heal your hearts.
All the best