Okay. Present time is fucked up, It's pretty clear. Drugs, popculture (risking being called a racist, I say it: Black culture, which pop really means today), diseases that didn't exist 100 years ago and all this crap, you name it. Now, I was thinking about what comes next.
I am currently 20 years old. If I had a grandfather and asked him to tell how things were in his youth, he'd tell something like that:
Times were quite difficult. WWII has just begun, nazis drove around in our village, demanding butter, milk and meat. We were very poor, our father was taken away by soliders and we never saw him again.
There wasn't any grown-up men left in village, so nobody did the farming. Winter came along with hunger.
My mother didn't have any money to send me to school - or even buy me shoes. There wasn't any food left. So we, me and some boys from village, sneaked to a house where nazis had set up their camp, and stole some solider bread from their supply shack. Thanks to god and bits of food we managed to get, we survived this winter...
Heroic and serious. Now, I was thinking, what would be story I'M telling to my grandchildren after 45 years?
Times were quite difficult. I couldn't afford a faster video card or load my cellphone with credit every month. America invaded Iraq. Terrorists blew theselves up around the world. Drugs and popculture invaded youngest part of humankind. Gas became super-expensive. People became fat. Millions of retarded, perverted, sick people found themselves a stage to act on in Internet. Success of Doom and Tomb Raider killed the last good of computer games, making all games to be third or first person shooters.
Adventure games genre was dying, or already dead despite a group of people who still knew and loved it.
Oh yeah, It was a difficult time...
Stupid? Oh yeah.
I think that after that story, my grandchildren rush away to bring me my pills.
Quote from: InCreator on Sun 04/04/2004 04:13:12popculture (risking being called a racist, I say it: Black culture, which pop really means today)
Hooray for inaccuracy!
Quote
Adventure games genre was dying, or already dead despite a group of people who still knew and loved it.
Wow! We are
la resistance these days! I like it. :D
I wouldn't call you racist, just retarded. What you call black culture probably doesn't include 2/3 of black people.
Dude, don't worry. The future of the world will be saved by The Wyld Stalyns. We just have to bide our time until they do.
Yea in the meantime just calm down and be excellent to each other
(http://www-cchs.ccsd.k12.wy.us/cchs_web/internet/clikeman/internet6/abrown/billandted10.jpg)
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Sun 04/04/2004 04:45:09
I wouldn't call you racist, just retarded. What you call black culture probably doesn't include 2/3 of black people.
Maybe it doesn't. But lots of "pop" category things (music, clothing, way of language use, etc) are from afroamericans actually.
That's all I meant, and this goes basically for music.
And word "racist" doesn't mean anything to me, because where I live, aren't any black people. There's maybe 10-20 of them for whole of my country (which has only 1,4 million of people), so I actually haven't seen or experienced real skin-color-related racism in life and it's stupidity to attach me to that. There's only russians and estonians. And being "estonian" is a reason enough to have your teeth kicked in when encountering some russian youngsters on the street, especially when they're drunk. That concludes all problems between nations here.
And after all, one word really wasn't what this thread was about. I can't tell more that I know and if it comes to foreign people or culture, I can only tell what I get from media. Turn on MTV. If I am wrong - let it be so. Point taken.
Smarter now. Happy?
I couldn't agree more Creator...
Everything's so screwed up, but it's not for SERIOUS reasons! who CARES whether you go get stoned or not? Most people just let you go and do it (excluding police, of course, but they're aware of it enough anyway that they don't care about 'social' users), which explains the drug problem we have, but BECAUSE we're "allowed" to do it, no one sees it as a problem. And then we'll all go have a whinge to future generations about how 'tough' our life was...
My grandchildren shall kick my face.
MTV is not the sole designated representative of black culture - and neither is BET. There are more people in the two generations above us, do they listen to rap? Are they pot smokers? This is what I'm getting at. I don't like you labelling a race of people. If you knew any people who were different than you at all, and you didn't live inside of a box where everything you believe is right, then you might notice that they're not different at all. Today while I was at my job I was messing with a 3d model, and one of my friends offered to send me some of his drawings of anime characters to use as reference, and maybe create them in 3d. He also plays guitar, listens to rock music, and hangs out with mixed ethnicities. He's black. Weird huh.. seems like he should be drinking malt liquor with fried chicken in hand as he drives his modified lincoln down main street blaring "Stand up." According to your perspective, he wouldn't have crap in common with me. This friend of mine isn't just a freak accident either, that's the way a LOT of black people are.
What you're talking about shouldn't be referred to as "black culture" but you should be calling it what it is, rap culture. It's as much or more white as it is black. There is even a booming asian rap scene.
I don't think he meant it the way you interpreted it, but....
I have nothing to add.
Rap culture then. Okay. :D
Even if I am living in a box, It's made of glass and I'm not that ignorant to close my eyes.
Last thing I'd like to do is having forum fights at 7:30 AM over a topic in which I'm pretty incompetent and don't really care about much until I have personally closer connections to topic, neither winning the fight. I don't have black friends! But If I'd met one and it were a nice guy, no color could stop me from becoming his/her friend. Peter Thomas is right - I didn't mean it that way at all. Only time I have talked to someone black was at New Years eve, me and my friends were drinking at the city center and two famous house DJ's stopped us to ask direction to a fancy local night club where they performed that night. We fell into a chat for a hour and drank two bottles of expensive vodka, my friends (who are 101% hip-hop-culture teens) were superhappy to meet people that are black, just as their hip-hop idols. During this, I didn't feel for a second that there's something different with those people (except that they were famous house DJ's :)).
So, read here: I don't have a problem with black people. But I've just became an uncle, and I don't feel too good about my little cousin growing up with "pimping", "bitches" and other weird stuff from MTV which is so popular nowadays.
Fact that people discuss things they don't know much about happens all the time. People who make laws don't usually act against them. Social workers don't do drugs by themselves, but encourage people not to use them.
But I don't like to fight over something, I don't know very well. Like ethnic (did I spell that right?) groups or their culture.
Especially here. In and with this community I've enjoyed so far to be member of.
I have a pop culture story. I was babysitting tonight and we were watching the Nickelodeon Kids' choice awards. There was only one white person under the catagory of best new female singer. Hilary Duff, who happened to win. Thats a pitty, isn't it?
um... what, evil?
i completely fail to see your point.
and increator, to your original post:
do you want war? do you want hard times? i'm confused as to what you're talking about.
diseases have been appearing for a long time, when small pox jumped on the scene people didn't say "Oh man, this is nothing compared to the plague... my grandchildren are gonna be so bored by my stories."
If my grandchildren in the future ask me how it was i hope i tell them some of the good things that happened and not just dwell on how AIDS completely destroyed Africa and all the tigers died and thousands of people died through wars and terrorists attacks... I don't want to scare the shit out of them...
Now, morale is that really that It's damn good to live right now and we should spend less time about complaining.
And whole thing was meant to be something to produce a weak smile or something at least close to that. Not a war, naturally.
Why are you guys taking every word so dramatically and seriously? Isn't this a corner in AGSforums to present even a simple thought that made me laugh or share some good emotions about a movie and so on? Why? Do I sound like a dictator gathering hate and manpower for next world war? :D
(http://www.nyu.edu/classes/jeffreys/comedy/comedy2.jpg)
Bill: Dudes, quit all the arguing! It is most unpleasant!
Ted: Yes, soon we shall save the day in a totally excellent way, so do not fret!
/me air guitar!
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 04/04/2004 06:15:19
I don't want to scare the shit out of them...
You don't....?
Quote from: InCreator on Sun 04/04/2004 06:20:46
Now, morale is that really that It's damn good to live right now and we should spend less time about complaining.
And whole thing was meant to be something to produce a weak smile or something at least close to that. Not a war, naturally.
Why are you guys taking every word so dramatically and seriously? Isn't this a corner in AGSforums to present even a simple thought that made me laugh or share some good emotions about a movie and so on? Why? Do I sound like a dictator gathering hate and manpower for next world war? :D
I fail to see anything funny in what you posted, sorry. It seems like a rant against your perception of modern society.
Or incompatibility of sense of humor between different people (which is supposed to be like that, IMO). But no-one forces you to (re)act anyhow, so...
...so nothing. This is getting stupid, if it already isn't. But you're overreacting this all alot.
I blame the degredation of society on two things:
1) mass media
2) MTV
Mass media shows only the shit of the world in an attempt to sensationalize and out-do their opponents.
MTV makes influential kids think it's cool to get drunk and party and shirk your responsibilities. They have a show called 'The Real World' where NOTHING is like the real world and these people have everything handed to them. Jobs, rent, etc. That's the real world?? Where have I been living then?
But sure they have anti-drug commercials every now and then with a sexy pop star saying "Don't do drugs" and then two weeks later that same pop star is checkin' into rehab.
And now they show nothing but crap music ... I mean rap music.
I can't stand [gansta] rap.
A lot of ignorant people assume this to mean I don't like black people. When, on the contrary, I happen to like black people as much as I like every other skin color.
But these morons (rappers) are damaging society with their useless and no-talent [c]rap music.
Sure you have the right to freedom of speech. But with the right, comes the responsibility.
Just 'cause you can doesn't mean you should.
But what do they care, they're making millions.
~ d
you guys aren't getting the point.
(http://filmthreat.studiostore.com/images/p/BAT/pdSTBAT0001.jpg)
(http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/5bill.gif)
PARTY ON DUDES!
Also:
We have two threads so far that blame rap music for the decline of society.
I say BULLSHIT!
Repeat: BULLSHIT!
Gangsta rap is not to blame.
MTV is not to blame.
Society has been fucked up WAY before MTV or rap.
It's ironic that a lot of people are blaming rap music for the problems in society -- Rap began as a protest to how fucked up society was.
Listen to '911 Is A Joke' by Public Enemy and then blow me.
(http://www-cchs.ccsd.k12.wy.us/cchs_web/internet/clikeman/internet6/abrown/alexandkeanu.jpg)
WHOA!
(http://www.frontiertrails.com/oldwest/images/billy.jpg)
Yeeehaw!
(http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/schools/s090/lloyd/napoleon.jpg)
Ziggy Piggy!
(http://www.sonoma.edu/psychology/images/freud.jpg)
My name is Sigmund, but you can call me 'Ziggy'!
(http://www.prometheus-imports.com/philosopher-socrates-tc-l.jpg)
All we are is dust in the wind, dude!
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sun 04/04/2004 07:18:22
Rap began as a protest to how fucked up society was.
That's what I hate most. Music that started out as a cause, but has since become complete garbage. grr.
QuoteThat's what I hate most. Music that started out as a cause, but has since become complete garbage. grr.
Yeah, but Sturgeon's Law says 90% of everything is crap -- why single out rap?
Punk also began with a cause, and now we have so many shitty pop punk bands.
Same with rock.
(http://9thvalkyrie.com/Bristol-2003/BR03-5-Magn1727.JPG)
Want a twinkie, Genghis Khan?
Now he has a purpose....
EDIT: I single out rap because music is one of my passions, and rap is what I have learned to hate most of all. And because all my supposed 'friends' listen to it (although quite clearly they wouldn't listen to it if they were TRUE friends, because then they would all bow down to me and do my bidding and refuse to ever be sucked into rap-whore-house again).
It's like you're viewing all rap [and life] as if it's like this all the time
(http://www.eternallove.org/thepromise/images/valenti/movies/bogus02.jpg)
When it can easily be like this
(http://www.humorlinks.com/humornet/files/images/bogus_small.jpg)
Quick! Someone challenge rap to a duel!!
Try and beat THIS:
(http://www.lantetickets.com/images/photo-chicago-bebe.jpg)
Even when opera is SCARY it's better than crap
Why did Peter Thomas post a picture of a drag queen?
It looks like Lucille Ball dressed up like Liza Minelli.
It looks like that creepy guy who lives next door.
I forget her name, but she was in a VERY famous opera from about 10 years back. She played this half-drag half-I-don't-know girl, and she STILL looked better (and sung better, and most likely had better table manners) than any rapper I've ever seen.
Sad ...
Not as sad as this:
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ivan.regina/rap.jpg)
no one can convince me that this type of 'humour' is neccessary from ANYONE, let alone 'oh-so-cool' rappers.
apparently they made that before the attacks if it's even true
so yes, it's fine
really?!
Oh well..... I shall pretend you didn't say that, and continue to blacklist them anyway...
blacklist?
Nazi
damn..... he noticed......
*runs*
speaking of that image... There was a song called crashing down. It had to be changed due to the attacks.
I blame Elvis:
(http://www.bigdancelist.com/elvis/e-ani.gif)
Damn you Elvis with your sexy dancing! Look what you've done!
Elvis is dead.
He dances no more, except in the hearts of those who dare to dream...
So, the moral of this thread is...
(http://www.chucksconnection.com/billandted/billandted1.gif)
SIXTY-NINE, DUDES!
It's funny that my dress sense is exactly the same as Teds, minus the waistcoat.
(http://www.nyu.edu/classes/jeffreys/comedy/comedy2.jpg)
I don't really like Rap, all the rythims are the same and I can't really appreciate the most appealing part of them, the lyrics, because the slang they use is too difficult to understand for me.
I like EMINEM in some way because he has some fresh rythims and nice melodies in some movements, but, as I haven't investigated the lyrics deeply, if someone comes telling that he is a moron i couldn't reply...
But, hey! We can blame to Rap that youth preffer to waste their energies in listening the songs and complaining about the World encouraged by the contents of the songs than attempting to make the World better.
I never really liked professional complainers...
I mean, It's ok to complain, "world sucks, Bush sucks, war sucks"... But make something about it.
I don't say that you should go to a catholic mission in Burundi, but at least do something, aid in the local dining room for poor people, vote against Bush, go to a demostration against the War...
And... that's my complain about Rap... IMO it's harmless, but their followrs are in many cases a bunch of professional complainers.
-"Have you heard the new song of Mr- Demolition Rapman?
-Oh yeah, man, how deep are their lyrics! World sucks! I like the part when he says we should fight for our rights, man!
-Indeed, Brotha'!!! so! Shall we go now to fight for our rights, man?
-No, Brotha! I gotta finish to make this joint!
-You're right, man!"
EDIT: Actually, on second thought, I think that the "laziness" attitude of some youth people was there before they started to get into the Rap, but the Rap is some kind of catalyst... What was before, the egg or the Chicken? Future don't give a damn to some young people because they listen to Rap or they listen Rap because future don't give a damn to them? I can't really answer.
You like Eminem? He is such a moron! ;D
I agree with you that it is basically harmless. You can say it affects (or is it effects) people the same way violence in video games affect people. It mostly depends on the type of person, not the type of violence.
I don't understand peoples attitude about rap music. It is just music. It is in no way better as a genre than for example rock. I mean it is Ok to go "Ohh I like this singer, his lyrics are so deep" and nonsense like that, but in the end it is just music. It is entertainment. It is created by the musician for selling so that money can be earned. Same for rap. This attitude is not only restricted to these Forums. Friends of mine who live in the US even have this attitude where if someone listens to rap, that person is somehow different from others. I am thankful that I have the open mindedness to appreciate both these genres as well as many others. There is lots of Rap I enjoy and lots I dislike, same with rock. I have many friends who only like either rap or rock, and they are not much different from each other. It is not like one type is more prone to drugs or pot or profanity (whatever it was) than any other. And don't tell me other types of music than rap dont have lyrics suggestive of drugs/immorality/whatever.
*EDIT*
That is my point releasethefrogs. Violence in games only affects people if they are the type of people who would be affected by violence in games, and these type of people should not be playing those games anyway.
I hate when people say that video games pcause violence.
Maybe some video games depict violence, or encourage violane, but really, how can you tell if they cause violence.
I mean, what are you going to do? Stick 30 teenagers in a room with a one way mirror, and force them to play Grand Theft Auto for 2 hours straight, and then observe if they start beating each other up? Or even better, the rate in which each person gets beat up?
The only real problem I have with Eminem is that he struggled so hard to become famous and then bitches about being famous.
He's a whiny pussy.
'Gansta' Rap is predominantly about drugs, guns, and violence.
Rock music (the rock I listen to) is mostly about love.
There is a difference.
(Yes there is rock music that is bad and crap. But the discussion was about rap.)
~ d
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 04/04/2004 19:28:03
'Gansta' Rap is predominantly about drugs, guns, and violence.
Rock music (the rock I listen to) is mostly about love.
There is a difference.
Some people would argue that exposing teenagers and kids to songs glorifying love would mean that they place a very high importance upon finding it, thus tricking themselves into believing they
have found it the first time they so much as have a crush on someone, and ending up getting themselves pregnant because YOU and your HEATHEN ROCK MUSIC made them careless!
Of course, such people are silly and deserve to be mocked openly, but their argument is no more ridiculous than any that says rap music has any substantial negative effects upon anyone.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 04/04/2004 19:28:03
(Yes there is rock music that is bad and crap. But the discussion was about rap.)
The point being made was that there was no fair reason for the discussion to focus upon rap specifically.
My main point is that kids these days NEED positive role models.
They aren't getting them.
There are positive role models out there.
They're just not considered cool.
And that's simply pathetic.
Edit - and I would much rather my future children listen to songs about love than about drugs and violence and thug-life. That's a no-brainer.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 04/04/2004 20:36:08
My main point is that kids these days NEED positive role models.
They aren't getting them.
There are positive role models out there.
They're just not considered cool.
And that's simply pathetic.
Edit - and I would much rather my future children listen to songs about love than about drugs and violence and thug-life. That's a no-brainer.
I agree... let's see: When I was a kid I watched "the Smurfs", "Tintin", Disney and Warner Brothers' stuff, "Heidi"... Now the young people watches "Cow and Chicken", "Dexter's laboratory" and "KND"... I think that the message is not very positive...
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 04/04/2004 19:28:03Yes there is rock music that is bad and crap.
You mean all the cliched, derivative "love" song rock ballad crap?
Quote
'Gansta' Rap is predominantly about drugs, guns, and violence.
Rock music (the rock I listen to) is mostly about love.
You don't listen to a great variety of rap or rock, do you?
There are many rock songs about drugs, guns, and violence.
To name a few bands and artists: Nirvana, Silverchair, The Vines, The Boomtown Rats, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Deep Purple...
At the same time, there's a lot of rap that's not about drugs, gun, and violence.
For example, take "that whiny pussy" Eminem and his Oscar winning song "Lose Yourself".
QuoteEdit - and I would much rather my future children listen to songs about love than about drugs and violence and thug-life. That's a no-brainer.
Meanwhile, some kid in the ghetto has to deal with the drugs, violence, and thug-life.
And the ghetto didn't end up that way cause of rap music.
Rap music only reflects what's going on in the ghetto.
Thug-life exists in the ghetto cause of money, or lack thereof.
Thug-life exists because the cops there are like nazi-overlords.
Thug-life exists cause drugs are being run from overseas, which so-called "thugs" sell on the streets, which once again relates back to money.
Rap music didn't cause these things.
They exist because white people don't want to acknowledge there's problem in ghettos.
As Furious Styles says in the film 'Boyz In Da Hood':
Furious Styles: Why is it that there is a gun shop on almost every corner in this community?
The Old Man: Why?
Furious Styles: I'll tell you why. For the same reason that there is a liquor store on almost every corner in the black community. Why? They want us to kill ourselves.
and this:
The Old Man: Ain't nobody from outside bringing down the property value. It's these folk, shootin' each other and sellin' that crack rock and shit.
Furious Styles: Well, how you think the crack rock gets into the country? We don't own any planes. We don't own no ships. We are not the people who are flyin' and floatin' that shit in here.
* sigh *
QuoteYou don't listen to a great variety of rap or rock, do you?
Quotes by Darth Mandarb"
'Gansta' Rap is predominantly about drugs, guns, and violence."
"Rock music (
the rock I listen to) is mostly about love."
"Yes there is
rock music that is bad and crap."
*sigh again*
This is more like regional thing, where I live, kids listen rap alot, but there wasn't been any school shootings ever. Firearms are still more a thing that only grownup criminals carry and they cannot be bought from street... at least usual kids cannot.
Quote
The Old Man: Ain't nobody from outside bringing down the property value. It's these folk, shootin' each other and sellin' that crack rock and shit.
Furious Styles: Well, how you think the crack rock gets into the country? We don't own any planes. We don't own no ships. We are not the people who are flyin' and floatin' that shit in here.
A person hands you a lump of shit. Does this mean you're obligated to throw it at your neighbor's car?
Just thought I'd add my two cents. I don't much feel like arguing over shit tonight.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 05/04/2004 03:42:05
* sigh *
QuoteYou don't listen to a great variety of rap or rock, do you?
Quotes by Darth Mandarb
"'Gansta' Rap is predominantly about drugs, guns, and violence."
"Rock music (the rock I listen to) is mostly about love."
"Yes there is rock music that is bad and crap."
*sigh again*
Why are sighing? Are you in love with me because I'm sooo dreamy? ;)
You still haven't made any distinction between rock and Gangsta rap as a whole.
You're going purely on music you've listened to, which to me seems very limited -- Thus, I said "You don't listen to a great variety of rap or rock, do you?"
There are many great rock songs that aren't about love, but are about violence, drugs, and guns.
For example, Purple Haze by Hendrix, Janie's Got A Gun by Aerosmith, Woke Up This Morning by Alabama 3, I Don't Like Mondays by The Boomtown Rats...
I mean, you're generalising a lot of Gangsta rap and Rock on the basis of the few songs you've listen to.
I mean, would you also say "I hate Martin Scorsese's gangster films because they're filled with violence, guns, and drugs"?
I doubt you would.
BruisedWeasel:
QuoteA person hands you a lump of shit. Does this mean you're obligated to throw it at your neighbor's car?
Throwing shit at a person's car is a little different to selling crack.
People sell crack to make money -- I don't see how you'd make cash from throwing shit at cars unless someone hired you to throw shit at a car, which is retarded!
But interestingly, a child would throw shit as someone's car as a prank if there's enough peer pressure from other kids -- just the same as if other kids wanted him to smoke crack.
Quote
People sell crack to make money -- I don't see how you'd make cash from throwing shit at cars (...)
Ah, that's easy, throw some shit to the car without the car owner being able to see you and then kindly ask him for some money to clean his car.
Don't throw too much shit or it won't be worth all the hard work.
Quote from: Kairus on Mon 05/04/2004 05:07:26
Ah, that's easy, throw some shit to the car without the car owner being able to see you and then kindly ask him for some money to clean his car.
Don't throw too much shit or it won't be worth all the hard work.
Damn, now all my years at university have gone to waste when I could have been doing this to earn a living. :)
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 05/04/2004 04:57:35Why are sighing? Are you in love with me because I'm sooo dreamy? ;)
I wouldn't call it love ...
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 05/04/2004 04:57:35
You still haven't made any distinction between rock and Gangsta rap as a whole.
I'm not really trying to make a distinction. I think there's a lot of rock that is shit. I thought this conversation was [started] about Rap, so thats why I steered in that direction.
So, be it Rap/Rock/Hip-Hop/Country/Whatever, if it
'glorifies' violence, drugs, or other bad things, I consider it shit. Songs about those things where the point is, 'they're bad', are okay (in my opinion).
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 05/04/2004 04:57:35You're going purely on music you've listened to, which to me seems very limited -- Thus, I said "You don't listen to a great variety of rap or rock, do you?"
I wouldn't call it limited. I have over 4000 mp3 from Johnny Mathis to Richard Hung. And I have about 100 CDs I collected (before MP3 came 'round). I love music. I just think there's some that is inappropriate for younger audiences.
I give a lot of different/new music a chance ... but if I don't like it, I don't listen to it again.
I tend to listen (mostly) to songs(music) that are about love and happiness.
Because it makes me happy.
Or sad ...
Then I do 8 lines of Coke and grab my glock and start wasting people!!!
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 05/04/2004 16:42:19
I wouldn't call it love ...
Admit it -- It is sweet, sweet lurve!
Quote
So, be it Rap/Rock/Hip-Hop/Country/Whatever, if it 'glorifies' violence, drugs, or other bad things, I consider it shit. Songs about those things where the point is, 'they're bad', are okay (in my opinion).
But there are a lot of songs that glorify drugs and violence that are really good songs, like the ones I've mentioed.
And like I asked in my previous example, would you also hate Scorsese or Tarantino films because they glorify drugs and violence?
I mean, it sounds like you're judging the merits of songs based on the same methods that the Capalert website uses to rate films. (http://www.capalert.com/capreports/index.htm)
It's like you're discarding any artistic merit just because such songs glorify drugs and violence.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 05/04/2004 04:57:35I just think there's some that is inappropriate for younger audiences.
Refering back to Capalert, here is their review of Saving Private Ryan -- in it, they say the film is inappropriate for children due to the violence and because the soldiers swear a lot:
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/savpvtryan.htm
They completely disregard the fact that the film is portraying a period in history where there was a lot of violence and soldiers did swear, especially when their Germans were shooting their buddies.
Likewise, gangsta rap demonstrates an aspect of life that most people in ghettos have to face -- blinding children to that makes them ignorant of problems in society.
A lot of gangsta rap displays its own brand of ignorance. I'd like to hear a rap song with at least a vague sense of morality, something that's about getting away from the drugs and violence rather than embracing it. This genre may expose children to the problems of ghetto life, but it doesn't describe them as actual problems often enough.
Pulp Fiction:
Uma Thurman does coke, then sniffs 'The Monster' up her nose. The scene that follows wouldn't exactly, in my opinion, qualify as 'glorifying' drugs (funny sure, but not glorious).
Resevoire Dogs:
The violence in that movie, in the end, gets them all killed and very bloody. I wouldn't say that glorifies violence.
Casino:
Joe Pessi's character was hilarious, and very violent, but in the end he got a bullet in the head. I don't think thats glorious either. The tag-line is "No one stays at the top forever".
A lot of music now-a-days doesn't make the point that, in the end, drugs and violence get you nowhere. They just try to make it seem cool.
There are other ways of preventing 'blinding children to that' and 'making them ignorant of problems in society'. Glorifying a degenerant way of life isn't one of them.
There may very well be some musicians who believe they're making social commentary. My guess is that most of them just want to make money and don't care about the consequences.
Aerosmith - Janey's Got a Gun, that certainly doesn't glorify what she's done. She was backed into a corner and had to fight back. She's a fucked up little girl who killed her own father.
Woke up this Morning - Alabama 3. I don't know this song, but I know a song with the same name by Nickelback. If it's the same song it's certainly not painting a pretty picture. And is a great song!
Purple Haze - Hendrix. What a great song! I wonder why he hasn't released an album since the 60's??
I think there is a fact that makes "violent rap" more dangerous than some of the stuff DG refered to... Whereas that "white" songs talking of drugs and violence are aimed to "average" people (Who doesn't really care of the lyrics), Rap enters deeply in the Ghettos, where people has it easier to go for the bad road.
I really see Daniel's point; violence and drugs do exist, and, yes, it can be hipocrital to deny it... but keeping the message of violence in the ghettos what is not going to do, for sure, is to help.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 05/04/2004 18:00:46
Pulp Fiction:
Uma Thurman does coke, then sniffs 'The Monster' up her nose. The scene that follows wouldn't exactly, in my opinion, qualify as 'glorifying' drugs (funny sure, but not glorious).
But one could interpret the humour as glorifyinh drugs. i.e. Hey you can get into a wacky situation like this.
QuoteResevoire Dogs:
The violence in that movie, in the end, gets them all killed and very bloody. I wouldn't say that glorifies violence.
Yeah, but you're looking at the end result -- what about individual scenes, like say Michael Mann cutting the ear off the police officer.
Despite that Tim Roth blows him away, it still glorifies violence as a "fun" thing to do.
QuoteCasino:
Joe Pessi's character was hilarious, and very violent, but in the end he got a bullet in the head. I don't think thats glorious either. The tag-line is "No one stays at the top forever".
Forget Casino -- it's at the bottom of Scorsese's films.
I'm talking Taxi Driver, where Travis Bickle blows away everyone to save Iris, the hooker.
QuoteA lot of music now-a-days doesn't make the point that, in the end, drugs and violence get you nowhere. They just try to make it seem cool.
There are other ways of preventing 'blinding children to that' and 'making them ignorant of problems in society'. Glorifying a degenerant way of life isn't one of them.
There may very well be some musicians who believe they're making social commentary. My guess is that most of them just want to make money and don't care about the consequences.
These are just broad generalisations -- you're not providing any basis for this.
QuoteAerosmith - Janey's Got a Gun, that certainly doesn't glorify what she's done. She was backed into a corner and had to fight back. She's a fucked up little girl who killed her own father.
That IS glorifying it -- It's using violence to solve a problem.
QuoteWoke up this Morning - Alabama 3. I don't know this song, but I know a song with the same name by Nickelback. If it's the same song it's certainly not painting a pretty picture. And is a great song!
No, the Nickelback song pales in comparison to what I'm talking about.
The song in question is about a wife who kills her rotten husband with a shotgun.
It's the same song used at the opening on the Sopranos.
QuotePurple Haze - Hendrix. What a great song! I wonder why he hasn't released an album since the 60's??
The song STILL GLORIFIES DRUGS, genius, even if he died from an overdose.
I mean, by that logic, you'd consider gansta rap songs to be brilliant if all the artists died from overdoses.
No, you're just using ridiculous logic now.
I don't have a problem with most rap music. I do have issues with songs aimed at the mid teens that focuses on sex, drugs and alcohol.
It's the same with teen magazines like cosmo and what not. Teenagers are very impressionable, and they are trying to fit in, rebel, whatever.
Some rap/hip-hop music aimed at the mid teens music is really sending out the wrong message. Songs where drinking and sex is glorified. I've seen 15 year olds drunk. Drinking leads to unwanted (and sometimes wanted due to the influence of pop culture) sexual activity including hand-jobs, blow-jobs, sex, etc... They are a product of the way corporations (including record labels) are marketing to the youth of today.
This may seem odd coming from a hard drinking, smoking, and most definitly sexually promiscuous member of society. But I did not choose this lifestyle until I was old enough not to be influenced by trends and media propaganda and knowing the consequences of my actions. Young people have not yet developed these skills.
And drinking is being marketed to young girls thanks to the onslaught of the 'lolly water' chick drinks that are prominantly advertised to young women in magazines and television. Guys are marketed the mixed spirit 'manly' drinks like Jim Beam and colas in magazines and television.
In summary, no-one should blame just one genre of music on all the world problems, it is a current market trend to glorify alcohol, drugs, sexuality and smoking to the teenagers of today. I don't think it's a good trend, but it is working. Just like it was cool in the 1980's to wear fluro and have a big arse mullet, it is cool to drink, smoke and fuck in the 2000's.
Just remember, about 80%* of the fluro wearing, mullet sporting teens of the 80's have turned in to well-adjusted human beings.
*made up figure to prove a point, but probably close to the truth...
QuoteBut one could interpret the humour as glorifyinh drugs. i.e. Hey you can get into a wacky situation like this.
This is a weak argument IMO.
QuoteYeah, but you're looking at the end result -- what about individual scenes, like say Michael Mann cutting the ear off the police officer.
Isn't the end result where the message comes across? (Michael Madsen)
QuoteI'm talking Taxi Driver, where Travis Bickle blows away everyone to save Iris, the hooker
Yeah, and how does the movie end? I haven't seen it a long time and can't really remember. My hunch is that's it not really a happy ending for Mr. Bickle.
QuoteThe song STILL GLORIFIES DRUGS, genius, even if he died from an overdose.
Again, the end result proves my point. He glorifies the very thing that killed him at 27. How absolutely GLORIOUS!! You'd think people would learn.
QuoteThese are just broad generalisations -- you're not providing any basis for this.
"There may very well be some musicians who believe they're making social commentary. My guess is that most of them just want to make money and don't care about the consequences." (this is the only one of the three quoted that could be interpreted as a 'broad generalization')
If I had used a specific artist for this reference I would have been accused of thinking I know what somebody else is thinking. That's why I said it was 'My guess'. Do you know for a fact why Hendrix wrote Purple Haze? Do you know for 100% sure he wasn't just out for the money and feeding on the popular opinions of the 60's?
Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm using 'rediculous logic'.
It's a different point of view that I'd wager a lot of people on these forums agree with.
Only they are aware (as I am) that debating with you is pointless 'cause you never stop disagreeing until the thread gets locked.
Why does "violence" keep getting lumped in with "sex and drugs"? I think it's a shitty replacement for "rock and roll". At least sex and drugs feel good, even if they can lead you down a completely wrong path.
Just to clarify:
I'm not blaming everything on gansta rap.
I'm blaming it on 'lack of positive role models'.
In ANY fashion. Music, art, TV, movies, advertising, etc.
~ d
Sex without the proper knowledge or ignorance of protection can lead to Pregnancy, which can seiously fuck up a persons life.
Drugs can seriously fuck up a persons life, and lead to prison.
Violence can seriously fuck up a persons life.
See the link???
And on your comments Darth, it is okay to lay the blame on these other factors, but you main focus is a minority aspect of the problems. Anyway, how many mulleted fluro wearing bogans do you see these days???
There's still a huge difference. Violence is never about enjoying yourself. It's just pure negativity.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 05/04/2004 18:58:39
QuoteBut one could interpret the humour as glorifyinh drugs. i.e. Hey you can get into a wacky situation like this.
This is a weak argument IMO.
QuoteYeah, but you're looking at the end result -- what about individual scenes, like say Michael Mann cutting the ear off the police officer.
Isn't the end result where the message comes across? (Michael Madsen)
You obviously don't know kids very well, do you?
Kids don't look at the end result and messages -- They just see Michael Madsen acting cool and cuting a cop's ear off and forget about him getting blowed away.
And even then, Tim Roth uses violence to solve his problem.
And Harvey Keitel uses violence to solve his problem.
Same with Pulp Fiction -- Tavolta uses drugs, and he's cool.
Forget about Uma though.
And don't get me started on glorification of violence in Kill Bill.
So once again, why single out gansta rap when there are other glorifications of violence and drugs.
Seems a little biased to me -- You're just justifying violence and drugs in things you do like.
QuoteQuoteI'm talking Taxi Driver, where Travis Bickle blows away everyone to save Iris, the hooker
Yeah, and how does the movie end? I haven't seen it a long time and can't really remember. My hunch is that's it not really a happy ending for Mr. Bickle.
Wrong -- he was praised as a hero.
Go watch it again if you don't believe me
QuoteQuoteThe song STILL GLORIFIES DRUGS, genius, even if he died from an overdose.
Again, the end result proves my point.
No, it doesn't, because...
QuoteHe glorifies the very thing that killed him at 27. How absolutely GLORIOUS!! You'd think people would learn.
People don't learn.
It's very easy to get the idea that "death from drugs" is cool.
Thus, the song is still glorifying drugs (and you haven't proven otherwise) and Hendrix himself glorifies drugs (and I've proven why).
QuoteQuoteThese are just broad generalisations -- you're not providing any basis for this.
"There may very well be some musicians who believe they're making social commentary. My guess is that most of them just want to make money and don't care about the consequences." (this is the only one of the three quoted that could be interpreted as a 'broad generalization')
If I had used a specific artist for this reference I would have been accused of thinking I know what somebody else is thinking. That's why I said it was 'My guess'. Do you know for a fact why Hendrix wrote Purple Haze? Do you know for 100% sure he wasn't just out for the money and feeding on the popular opinions of the 60's?
Yeah, like I can see record companies desperately capitalising on a black man in a period where racial tensions were at their peak in the 60s -- Yeah, it was all about the money.
You obviously don't know the 60s very well.
Hendrix was successful because he was talented.
And it's pretty obvious that Purple Haze glorifies drugs just by reading the lyrics.
QuoteJust because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm using 'rediculous logic'.
No, but you are using ridiculous logic when you make a point that's illogical.
QuoteIt's a different point of view that I'd wager a lot of people on these forums agree with.
Yeah, and a lot of people at one stage thought the Earth was flat.
QuoteOnly they are aware (as I am) that debating with you is pointless 'cause you never stop disagreeing until the thread gets locked.
Darth, you're boardering on getting personal here.
Besides, you don't even have to debate with me.
Let me take you back to your orignal argument:
QuoteI blame the degredation of society on two things:
1) mass media
2) MTV
I've provided a lot of reasons that demonstrate that MTV and mass media are pretty minor compared to a lot of things that really cause degredation to society.
However, if you want to believe mass media and MTV are the sole causes for everything that's fucked up in society, be my guest.
Ignore corrupt governments.
Ignore big businesses that push their companies overseas, utilising slave labour leaving hundreds upon thousands of domestic workers unemployed.
Ignore lack of funding into public schools.
Ignore more education on sex so that teenage girl doesn't get pregnant.
Ignore gun-runners and drug barons that illegally import weapons and crack into the country.
Blame everything on gangsta rap, MTV, and sensational media, if you know best!
QuoteDarth, you're boardering on getting personal here.
Calling me 'genious' and calling my logic 'rediculous', isn't bordering on personal?
Disregarding everything I type just because you don't agree isn't bordering on personal?
Other people's opinions and ideas aren't wrong just because you don't feel/think the same way. That's arrogance.
Sounds like
you know best.
I'm done arguing with you.
Pirate - As I mentioned earlier, at first I got the impression this conversation was about rap, so I went that direction.
QuoteAnyway, how many mulleted fluro wearing bogans do you see these days???
I guess that depends on where you live! Where I lived in Michigan there were loads of them around.
This thread started out as a complaint that the future would be crap due to the fact that teenagers are easily influenced by popular culture. The thread creator wrote up a pretty inaccurate and closed minded opinion on this.
These are issues that will have no significant impact on the future, it is the broader issues DGMacphee bought up that do have an impact.
Every teenager fucks up in some way or another, it's part of life. Sure you may not like it, but that is how society operates.
It may be sad, because this is what you see firsthand, but it is insignificant to the very real issues DGMacphee bought up, which you generally don't see.
And that is it. And Darth, there is no use arguing with DGMacphee, he is right, and if you continue, he will surely eat your balls.
If you want to start a thread to state your opinions on how mass media is corrupting the youth of today, go ahead. Just research your information more thoroughly before you post. I would be happy to add my input as that is a topic that I quite enjoy.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 05/04/2004 19:46:49
Calling me 'genious' and calling my logic 'rediculous', isn't bordering on personal?
First of all, would you prefer me to call you "idiot" or "loser" to genius?
I think "idiot" and "loser" is getting personal -- calling you "genius" isn't that personal cause, hey, you seem to be certain that MTV and mass media re the bane for all the problems in the world.
Am I being facicious? Maybe, but that's not because I think you're not a genius -- it's because I don't think you've thought carefully about your original argument i.e. "MTV and mass media are the causes of society's problems"
Second of all, yes, I did call your logic ridiculous -- Because, yes it was a ridiculous argument in the context you placed it.
But I didn't call you "ridiculous" -- that would be personal.
If you want to interpret those things as getting personal, that's your problem, but I didn't mean either of them as an attack on you.
I like you and want to have your babies.
QuoteDisregarding everything I type just because you don't agree isn't bordering on personal?
I never disregarded what you said -- where did I type "I disregard everything you type"?
I said, you were making broad generalisations, but no where did I say "I disregarded that whole broad generalisation".
It just would be helpful if you could actually back up your argument with exmaples and facts.
QuoteOther people's opinions and ideas aren't wrong just because you don't feel/think the same way. That's arrogance.
No, but other people's ideas are wrong when they're illogical, as I said earlier.
That's not arrogance -- that's just pure common sense.
QuoteSounds like you know best.
I'm glad you put that in italics, cause me being a moron would never have guessed that sentence was directed at me.
QuoteI'm done arguing with you.
Good. I've made my point too.
Look, to show there's no hard feelings, I'll pay you a compliment:
Quotehe will surely eat your balls.
But that'd take all week!!!
BOOM-CHING
argh, my eyes always scan over DG's "reply to every word of person I'm arguing with" posts.
Because, DG, it is so obvious you are out to debunk that person by looking for as many arguments as possible. Which waters down whatever original debate started the whole mess. You ruiner of debate, you.
Quote from: evenatlab on Mon 05/04/2004 21:15:06
argh, my eyes always scan over DG's "reply to every word of person I'm arguing with" posts.
Well, it seems to me a devoted person would take the time to read such marvelous inquiry and inflamatory remarks!
Quote
Because, DG, it is so obvious
Oh, but nothing ever is!
Quoteyou are out to debunk that person
Debunk, is that like when I threw my sister out of her bed? What an ignorant use of vocabulary!
Quoteby looking for as many arguments as possible.
Oh I do not!
QuoteWhich waters down whatever original debate started the whole mess.
Perhaps these arguments, although more shallow, are more INTERESTING than the original debate, and I have every right to derail it!
QuoteYou ruiner of debate, you.
I'm rubber you are glue, stick your finger up your ass. Smells like poo!
Quote
I had something to contribute to this thread in terms of discussing problems with society, which was the whole point of the thread in the first place.
Of course it's obvious that I'm out to debunk someone with as many arguments as possible -- that's the whole point participating in debates.
I mean, if you're not going to use arguments to prove your point, why bother participating in a debate in the first place?
I think I've been fairly civil in this thread -- I haven't resorted to name calling or sarcastic put-downs for once.
Darth Mandrub may not accept my point of view and I'm not forcing him -- I'm not sticking a gun to his head saying "You have to agree with what I say!"
We argued to the nth degree and I think we've both made ourselves very clear -- I think we've been very democratic.
Beside, I stated the true answer to this thread ages ago:
(http://www.chucksconnection.com/billandted/billandted1.gif)
SIXTY-NINE, DUDES!!!!
EDIT: Also, if you don't like my replying style then fine -- I can't do much about it because it's my style. I do it so people won't be confused as to who and what I'm replying to.
The vast majority of the rap/r&b [in the pop charts they blur alot] that I see on TV is boy girl stuff. Sex yes, drugs and violence?
Middle class kids singing about titties and enfatuation, sounds like most pop from the past 5 decades, except the innuendo is less veiled these days
Quote from: Trapezoid on Mon 05/04/2004 17:57:25
I'd like to hear a rap song with at least a vague sense of morality, something that's about getting away from the drugs and violence rather than embracing it.
I've heard plenty.
Trapezoid:
http://www.thelonelyisland.com/theheist.mp3
there, enjoy!
QuoteSo, be it Rap/Rock/Hip-Hop/Country/Whatever, if it 'glorifies' violence, drugs, or other bad things, I consider it shit. Songs about those things where the point is, 'they're bad', are okay (in my opinion).
I don't think you can say a song's shit solely because it glorifies drugs, if that's the case then you're not really listening to the music, just the lyrics. So if you take one of the songs that glorifies drugs and change the words then it's no longer crap?
My top 5 or so bands... 4 of the singers have died of a drug overdose. Cobain (Nirvana), Layne Staley (Alice in Chains), Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon) and Andrew Wood (Mother Love Bone). I don't think music hugely influences whether or not you will take drugs since a lot of my music is about drugs and i'd never touch them, not even pot. I think if your music/mtv/media influences what you do then you're just a sheep anyway.
The best song about drugs in the worldAlice in Chains - Junkhead (it doesn't glorify drugs or say they're "bad", get it from Kazaa and it's not rap either, they sound a bit like a dark U2 :P)
Archangel and MrColossal: Okay, I figured there would be rap songs like that. What I meant was, I want to hear a song like that break the top 40, and permanently change the expression of all other gangsta rap to come.
But that won't happen, because it's not as marketable. Nah, I just wish black culture would regress back to funk. Funk was so much better.
Edit--sorry, the mp3 wouldn't download, actually. Point still stands, there are decent-minded rappers, but they're neither trend followers nor trend setters.
I was joking Trap, download the MP3 is hilarious
I agree with eventlab.
DG just argues for the sake of arguing, and he often ends up just calling people's opinions 'wrong'. If not explicitly, then vicariously at least, and if not deliberate, then easily interpreted.
Just give it a rest DG and agree to disagree, as opposed to trying to act all smart and pick out every little thing.
Darth wasn't blaming EVERYTHING on MTV etc, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else. He just used MTV as a prominent example because it's so popular and DOES demonstrate a lot of what he was trying to say, which is easier than quoting 5,000 different resources.
There. I've had my rant. I can rest assured in the knowledge that this post will NOT go unattacked...
QuoteJust give it a rest DG and agree to disagree, as opposed to trying to act all smart and pick out every little thing.
No.
QuoteDarth wasn't blaming EVERYTHING on MTV etc, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else. He just used MTV as a prominent example because it's so popular and DOES demonstrate a lot of what he was trying to say, which is easier than quoting 5,000 different resources.
And I've said (many times) that blaming MTV and mass media is a superfluous as blaming Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shooting.
Look, I've shown why I think Darth hasn't thought carefully about his original theory. I didn't just call his opinions "wrong" -- I backed up my claims with why I thought they were wrong.
And if you or Darth or anyone wants to take this so seriously that you feel I'm attacking you personally, then fine, think that.
But I'm not -- don't take it so personally.
I don't just argue for the sake of arguing -- I do have a point, and that is to show that some people haven't thought about their points of view very carefully.
Everyone knows that DG has the IQ of a dead fish.
And smells even worse.
ha ha ha ha..
The lurker
At least I got the balls to post while logged in. ;D
DG, regardless of this particular situation, admit that nit-picking exact phrases, AGSers, and examples is a method you commonly use in your replies of debate.
You do this often and with much passion. But who is your intended audience?
To me, it seems like the particular person to whom you are replying is your sole audience. You quote them line by line, so naturally that person will read through your long post and reply.
However, you just said that your reason for posting "is to show that some people haven't thought about their points of view very carefully."
That works if your intended audience is Mandarb in this instance, because he will read your posts directed to him. (Although I don't know what good it will do, because no one will ever agree that they are not smart or informed on the issue.) But the rest of us have very little interest in following you quote by quote, out of context of the original debate. I hope you think about what I am stating because I don't think you understand my point of view.
Sometimes huge bodies of text directed at one other person contribute very little to a debate. Rather, they can be distracting and self-serving. That's why most of us choose to ignore eachother rather than try to debunk individuals we think are speaking out of their asses.
I wish for you to realize these posts are distractions only so you will consider making future posts that everyone will be interested in reading and replying to, which will make debates flow so much better.
Please reply as a whole and not to each segment or fragment, completely out of context. Thank you.
Listen, Evenwolf, I appreciate you giving me advice on the proper way to argue, but the sad truth is I don't intend on debating for an audience.
My comments are directed to Darth and only Darth, thus the reason I'm replying to him -- anyone else who wants to read them can do so.
He has an opinion and so do I -- Thus, we talk about it.
If you don't like the way I write (or even what I write), then don't read it -- more power to you.
But you can't just expect me to conform to the "Evenwolf School of Replying to Threads" just because you don't like my methods.
And on another topic, why do this here and now?
This thread is supposed to be about what is wrong with society and problems with the future, as the title says.
Granted, at times I am a bit of social problem, but realistically my impact on society is rather minimal.
Having said that, wouldn't it be better to send me a private message if you have a problem with my writing methods?
JUXTAPOSITION
"Listen, Evenwolf, I appreciate you giving me advice on the proper way to argue, but the sad truth is I don't intend on debating for an audience.
My comments are directed to Darth and only Darth, thus the reason I'm replying to him -- anyone else who wants to read them can do so."
"Having said that, wouldn't it be better to send me a private message if you have a problem with my writing methods?"
----------------------------------------------------------
"And on another topic, why do this here and now?"
I haven't been sitting on this for months. The thought arrived the moment I read your latest batch of posts. Therefore my critique arrived in text shortly afterwards. I am not an embodiment of the "DG posts like an asshole club", simply someone who had an opinion and didn't feel like letting it build up. Yes, my opinion was something outside of the topic but I hope you appreciate that I did not start a new thread- as I deemed unneccessary
"at times I am a bit of social problem, but realistically my impact on society is rather minimal."
Whereas I am trying to restore social order for all society???
Discussing by going through quote by quote of another's post comes accross as very aggressive, and it's a barrier to open discussion, since it seems to be a method of shutting down another's view rather than explaining your own.
It also seems, to use Even's phrase, like nit picking. I think it's preferable to give a wholistic expression of your viewpoint, and within that explain waht leads them to differ on specific points that you might find in their posts.
Quoting line by line really puts me off talking to someone if they do it to me. Leave that for those stupid debating things where people have to argue a point with 3 speakers and all that rubbish. The small minded can be attracted to that and be left there whilst the rest of us, who actually want to explore an issue or topic rather than spewing rhetoric and sophistries can actually talk and listen rather than endlessly rebut.
Even, in regards to your JUXTAPOSITION, My replies fit the context of this thread.
I said drop me a PM because a thread about popular culture destroying the fabric of society isn't the best place to condemn my replying style.
Or if you prefer, start a new thread on it -- we can all discuss whether I'm arguing for the sake of arguing and how we can better my replying style. (Though, I think that's a little extreme, but I'm up for it).
As for the "at times I am a bit of social problem, but realistically my impact on society is rather minimal", it was a joke -- a self-deprecating one too. It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at myself.
And Narangas: I can't debate the asthetical nature of my reply method -- I'm writing it and other people read it. So, really, I know nothing about how I come across.
But my style is my style -- It's how I've been writing here for the last two years or so.
If it sounds agressive and "nitpickish", then that's how it goes I guess (though unintentionally) -- When I read a sentence from someone and see a point (or a joke) to be made, I reply.
It's easy for me the way I do it, and do not mean to isolate other readers.
The thing is, everyone has a style.
Some write long labourous paragraphs of text, other write a few lines.
Some use long, wanky words, others use short, lazy words.
Some don't even punctuate properly.
Some don't log-in to post.
But isn't that what being a community is all about?
Communities also like to gripe at eachother and use circle explanations.
*nudge nudge*
This is not a jab, but are you saying that you can only take in pieces of writing line by line rather than as a whole? Because if so, I'll drop this whole thing right now. Afterall, I am leaving the computer lab!
Ah, but I love ya.
p.s. Peter: you cannot honestly think saying so will make it happen. People are holding convictions and all that junk. They will surely speak. Besides, who are you? ;)
Okay.....
now this is becoming personal for some....
The only comment I have to DG is what evenatlab alread posted. If you're aiming at one person, send a pm.
But at the same time, I think it's a little silly that people feel they have to logout before they can post. As long as you don't live in Australia, I don't think DG's gonna waste his time hunting for you....
So there. The debate has ended.
This post can now die, despite the fact that I just bumped it...
D'oh...
Quite simply, whether you are aggressive or not, the style still comes accross that way.
If in real life, I did not look in peoples eyes when I talked to them, they may think I'm distrustful. That may be untrue, but I should understand that if that's my style that's the impression I will convey, and should I want to communicate better, that style may need to change.
Whether you are aggressive or not, if your style conveys that impression when you don't want to, it is a flaw in your comuunicative skills.
Unless you want to alienate people and antagonise them, I suggest changing your style, because as it stands that's what it does, and as a communicative measure it is very poor for that.
As a journalism student, do you want to end up doing interviews for Today Tonight or 4 Corners and the 7:30 report?
Actually, I want to do radio. ;D
Narangas, if I have a fault in my communication, then so be it -- I wasn't born with a roadmap on how to be an excellent communicator.
I mean, my communication skill are just as flawed as anyone else's here.
Even yours.
Quotehe only comment I have to DG is what evenatlab alread posted. If you're aiming at one person, send a pm.
But my comments fit the context of the thread.
This last page doesn't.
I went to bed when the first misterious poster posted, now I see it's grown :-\ It was kinda disturbing because I'm sure that DG does not really care about who he/she is, but some people would, and some evidences aim to me... :-X
So, misterious poster... Log on! DG does not bite, having fights regullary is healthy, and the "excuse me" period that comes after is lovely! ;D
P.S: There is an evidence that I'm not the misterious poster... I can't write that well! ;)
"Words Farlander does not have a slightly idea of what do they mean:
-Vicariously.
-Rant"
But I am posting for an audience, I want everyone to read this because it has a certain universality.
But people can still have communication flaws that can alienate certain members of a collective.
EDIT: I'm taking leave now cause this thread has climbed close to the 100 post mark and we're talking about something that's miles away the original topic.
That and I need an afternoon nap.