Check out my rack:
(http://www.nielshs.dk/junk/bigguy.png)
what is it?
I think it's something to hang towels on...
Wow you grew muscles in your balls! :o
That's one of the grosser things I've seen in my life.
How does that man even move his arms and legs??
They shrink 400% once he's relaxed ;)
Go go gadget Photoshop
(http://www.bigfrog.net/archives/g_rtsidechst.jpg)
Go go cold hard grim reality.
-
Quote from: Helm on Fri 09/03/2007 16:01:36
Image
Go go cold hard grim reality.
Isn't this the guy whos arm burst because he was such a heavy steroid user?
that guy needs to stop playing with himself
99% sure the first pic isn't real. 90% sure the second pic isn't a bodybuilder.
99% sure the first guy is an aztec pyramid! :P
Quote from: Da_Elf on Fri 09/03/2007 17:05:46
that guy needs to stop playing with himself
or at least switch arms once in awhile. :D
I could take that guy on!
I'd just run rings around him and poke at him until he bursts!
He could probably simply inhale to draw you close enough to grab you. Then what? Huh? :P
Gregg Valentino isn't a bodybuilder, Big Brother?
Sigh.
Gregg Valentino does not compete in the IFBB. Even if he wanted to, he couldn't because of his synthol use (basically injected fat, hence his freakish arms). Even if it were allowed, he would never win anything (let alone go pro) with his current body composition.
So no, Telemachus, he is not a bodybuilder. He mans a booth at the shows, sells drugs, and lifts weights when he isn't injecting himself.
I see. I see him as the product of that environment, though he may no longer participate. I couldn't care less who is actually a 'professional' bodybuilder and who's not.
So if some kid kicks a soccer ball, he's automatically a footballer and lumped in the same category as David Beckham?
Do you call IFBB judges "bodybuilders", since they too are products of the environment? How about the scientists that synthesize the supplements? Are they bodybuilders?
Why must you challenge things for the sake of being fractious? When corrected, you fall back on an alternate definition of your own invention. If you don't care, why do you argue? Just....annoying.
Why do either of you argue? You're both very picky about your own subjects and must be absolutely correct about it, and can't admit when you're wrong, so both of you, agree to disagree! *slaps you both about for a bit* :P :=
EDIT: Oh, and BB, Beckham would then be called a "professional footballer", no?
Quote from: ManicMatt on Fri 09/03/2007 22:01:39
Why do either of you argue?
I have a small degree of knowledge or experience in certain areas. When these are being discussed, I will usually care enough to argue.
Quote
You're both very picky about your own subjects and must be absolutely correct about it, and can't admit when you're wrong, so both of you, agree to disagree!
What is this hippy bullshit? :)
Agree to disagree is a resolution for an opinion, not for something factual.
Quote
*slaps you both about for a bit* :P :=
Hah.
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahhaha.
I think the problem, however, is that when Helm said he couldn't care less whether the guy is or isn't a professional bodybuilder, he didn't mean that he makes no distinctions, but rather that he really just doesn't care. At least, that's how I understood him.
Actually, I'm just upset that Matt responded to you guys instead of to me. >:( :P
But don't mind me. I have absolutely no interest in bodybuilding at all, and I'd rather not get involved in any kind of serious argument about it.
Bodybuilding is almost as pointless an activity as masturbation. And less fun.
let's see. image posted was fake, someone says 'that's fake' and I remember I had seem some sorry bodybuilder person who through substance abuse of the worst way got into a similar state. So I post the picture as a reply to the 'that's fake' thing. I was meaning, crazy shit like this happens.
Now, whether sorry person is indeed a practicing, participating bodybuilder, I really really don't care. As far as I know, he was the product of the bodybuilding environ, a very grave reminder of what can happen with steroids. A lot of bodybuilders use steroids. Though Valentino is a cartoon case, I find for example this person (http://www.okinawa.usmc.mil/Public%20Affairs%20Info/Images%20Complete/HighResImages/050902-bodybuilding.jpg) equally nausiating, and he seems like a bodybuilder to me.
Bodybuilding for me is an expression of pathological narcissism (LET'S GET BIG! LET'S PUMP IRON WOO!) and has no redeeming factors. That's just an opinion though, you might find it annoying, you know?
The first guy looks like he's totally Tetsuo-ing out from Akira. He's going to turn into a giant veiny fetus, I know it!
QuoteBodybuilding for me is an expression of pathological narcissism (LET'S GET BIG! LET'S PUMP IRON WOO!) and has no redeeming factors.
I'm not saying that isn't an "opinion". It's just not a very credible one. In fact, it might be just as stupid if I were to to pronounce metal as music for insecure cavemen. To go one step further and say "it has no redeeming factors" is fairly ridiculous to say without knowledge of the subject.
I understand the context of your original posts, it's this one:
QuoteGregg Valentino isn't a bodybuilder, Big Brother?
that seemed snide, less of an actual question and more of a correction. If you don't care whether or not he's a bodybuilder, why did you EVEN ASK ME???
QuoteBodybuilding is almost as pointless an activity as masturbation. And less fun.
Is that why you stopped competing, Limpingfish? :)
Easy man, easy! It's obvious that you enjoy the sport a fair bit -- and truth be told -- my brother is heavy into the whole Joe Wieder scene himself, which I respect. I don't think anyone was trying to yank your chain, Helm just clearly doesn't see the appeal to having 1% bodyfat and 90% muscles, and Limpingfish just likes to masturbate. True story!
Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 09/03/2007 23:45:41
...and Limpingfish just likes to masturbate. True story!
Huzzah for loving one's self! \o/
Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 09/03/2007 23:45:41
Easy man, easy!Ã,Â
Roid rage....err, short fuse. It's a white guy thing. :)
Bodybuilding - "Bodybuilding is the process of developing muscle fibers through the combination of weight training, increased caloric intake, and rest."
A sport is not defined by the league it is contained in. If I play soccer regularly I can call myself a soccer player. Just because I don't compete does not nullify the activity that I've been doing. You might not be able to call Valentino a competitive or professional bodybuilder, however, regardless of steroids he is a bodybuilder. I think people associate the term bodybuilder as only including competitive bodybuilding, which just isn't the case.
Big Brother
Quote
Do you call IFBB judges "bodybuilders", since they too are products of the environment? How about the scientists that synthesize the supplements? Are they bodybuilders?
If the judges or scientists participate in bodybuilding, then yes.
Helm
Quote
Bodybuilding for me is an expression of pathological narcissism (LET'S GET BIG! LET'S PUMP IRON WOO!) and has no redeeming factors. That's just an opinion though, you might find it annoying, you know?
I think bodybuilding in moderation has definite benefits. As with most things, moderation is the key word.
QuoteGregg Valentino isn't a bodybuilder, Big Brother?
Quotethat seemed snide, less of an actual question and more of a correction. If you don't care whether or not he's a bodybuilder, why did you EVEN ASK ME???
Um, because it is a snide comment, and regardless of whether or not Valentino fits in your definition of bodybuilding doesn't mean it doesn't fit into his. If you reread his post you'll realize he doesn't care what you classify the man as, he's already classified him by his definition. To argue about being snide, seems moot when you call him Telemachus.
Quote
Why must you challenge things for the sake of being fractious? When corrected, you fall back on an alternate definition of your own invention. If you don't care, why do you argue? Just....annoying.
I don't think he was challenging things for the sake of being fractious, I think he was challenging because he was actually correct through his definition. Just as you are correct through your definition. And he's arguing for the same reason you're arguing, because he thinks he's correct, and gosh darn it, it's also fun. Helm can be quite annoying, but usually that's because he generally has sound and reasonable logic that is usually well written, and it's hard to argue against that. Also he's Greek.
-MillsJROSS
I wouldn't really consider someone who resorts to synthol to make their muscles large a bodybuilder. I mean, it doesn't develop your muscle fibers or anything. Just because he looks like a bodybuilder doesn't make him a bodybuilder.
Sounds like he wants to look like Big Lou without putting the effort forth! Leave it to science to let you cheat your way to a tougher looking physique (and tons of health problems, smaller dick, etc)
I don't see why people are so picky about the definition of "body-builder".
Helm showed a picture to display a grotesque sample of someone who obviously is the result of a twisted view on human esthetics, which is also something you'll find in body-building. I'm not talking "let's drop by the gym tomorrow after school and push dumbbells and then spin a bit", I'm talking full-fledged, hard-core professional body-building, the sport whose participators are depicted on magazine covers in your local kiosk.
I mean, isn't body-building just about having as big and defined muscles as possible, along with visible veins? Or what did we miss?
Also, saying this like "sigh" and "no, Telemachus" in a debate sounds very snide to me.
This discussion is pointless, because THIS is what a rack is:
(http://www.jefflaity.com/studio/studios_large/03_rack.jpg)
Quote from: big brother on Fri 09/03/2007 23:24:57
it might be just as stupid if I were to to pronounce metal as music for insecure cavemen.
which it is, so I don't see the problem in saying it :)
@ dkh: ditto
My opinion is that questions on the Internet should usually not be interpreted as comments with snide undertones. Go back and reread Helm's question about Valentino and assume he's actually asking a question with raised eyebrows. It's not snide unless you want it to be.
Helm is always snide, and we prefer him that way.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/snide.gif)
Quote from: dkh on Sat 10/03/2007 16:48:23
This discussion is pointless, because THIS is what a rack is:
+1 dkh ;D
I think the best way to diffuse the situation is to state as clearly as possible that you're both Nazis and I hate you all.
QuoteI think bodybuilding in moderation has definite benefits. As with most things, moderation is the key word.
From my point of view body-building is grotesque even as a premise. It's one thing to have an atheltic body from training or whatnot, and another to go for maximum muscle. I don't really care, nor did expect I'd have to debate this particular opinion with Big Brother or anyone around here but hey, go ahead and tell me my opinion is wrong again if you want to.
About asking whether Valentino was/is a bodybuilder, yes it wasn't I RUB MY QUESTION IN YOUR FACE but more 'huh? what? this guy isn't a bodybuilder? Since when?'. You chose to not include certain people into the bodybuilding club, those that use steroids I guess, and how where I to know that were the 'house rules' about bodybuilding for you? Two different documentaries I've seen about this grotesque, mainly american passtime said that a majority of professional bodybuilders use steroids.
He might be a shitty bodybuilder, but he's a bodybuilder from my point of view.
But seriously, post almost any picture of a beefy bodybuilder and I'd think he looks almost as bad. In my mind that's just
not how human bodies should get.
About metal being music for cavemen, sure, I won't explode in your face if you call it that, I'd just tell you it's a statement I -partly- disagree with.
Quote from: MillsJROSS
Just because I don't compete does not nullify the activity that I've been doing. You might not be able to call Valentino a competitive or professional bodybuilder, however, regardless of steroids he is a bodybuilder.
Where did I say steroid use disqualified him? I'm saying he's not a bodybuilder, not just because he doesn't compete, but he couldn't EVEN IF HE WANTED TO. This is the main difference between your soccer analogy. With his synthol augmentation, he literally cannot enter recognized IFBB (like FIFA is to soccer) competition. It's like being wheelchair bound and trying to enter the track and field in the traditional summer Olympics.
In addition, dieting is a bigger part of bodybuilding than weight training is, something that differentiates it from powerlifting or recreational lifting. Body fat percentage wise, Valentino is nowhere close to where he'd need to be for bodybuilding.
Quote from: HelmYou chose to not include certain people into the bodybuilding club, those that use steroids I guess, and how where I to know that were the 'house rules' about bodybuilding for you?
When did I say he was disqualified due to steroid use??? House rules? I was talking about regulations from the sport's governing body. I'm using that as the absolute definition, because otherwise it'd be pointless arguing, since every definition would be subjective and it would boil down to a difference of opinion, "agree to disagree" and rainbows and kittens.
Quote from: Helm
Two different documentaries I've seen about this grotesque, mainly american passtime said that a majority of professional bodybuilders use steroids.
A majority of NFL, MLB, cycling, and Olympic athletes use anabolic steroids. It's difficult to test for, especially when minimal cycles are needed for results. Not really sure how this is relevant.
Quote from: MillsJROSS
If the judges or scientists participate in bodybuilding, then yes.
So they must participate to become a "product of their environment"? Only by their volition it affects them? This line of reasoning leads to some interesting ramifications.
Quote from: MillsJROSS
I think bodybuilding in moderation has definite benefits. As with most things, moderation is the key word.
Because not every bodybuilder uses anabolics or human growth hormone but they all lift, we can list all of those benefits (increased testosterone production, sex drive, and metabolism, higher self esteem, slowed aging) without having to mention negative side effects from prolonged drug use. Being able to eat pizza and drink beer without losing a six pack in exchange for 3 hours of work per week seems like a good trade to me.
Quote from: MillsJROSSTo argue about being snide, seems moot when you call him Telemachus.
It's his name. The one his parents gave him in the real off-line world. If I called him "buddy" or "pal" then I could see how that's snide. "Chief" has a nice ring to it also.
Quote from: MillsJROSS
I don't think he was challenging things for the sake of being fractious, I think he was challenging because he was actually correct through his definition. Just as you are correct through your definition. And he's arguing for the same reason you're arguing, because he thinks he's correct, and gosh darn it, it's also fun.
Here's a hyperbole: if I defined the earth as flat, I could make some astounding postulations about modern physics. Ultimately, I too would be CORRECT through my definition. Despite that feel-good phrase, no scientist would take me seriously.
Once again, credibility....ethos, etc.
Continuing the metal analogy, say I assert that The Doobie Brothers are an example of metal, since they were infamous for performing rock concerts at very loud volumes. Say someone with some music knowledge disagrees, then I resort to the "aggressive and heavily amplified rock music" part of the definition of "heavy metal" from the prestigious dictionary.com. By that definition, I am correct. (For this example to parallel Helm's case, I would have to have never attended a concert, and not used an outside source for the definition.)
I would be posting out of ignorance, right?
QuoteWhere did I say steroid use disqualified him? I'm saying he's not a bodybuilder, not just because he doesn't compete, but he couldn't EVEN IF HE WANTED TO. This is the main difference between your soccer analogy. With his synthol augmentation, he literally cannot enter recognized IFBB (like FIFA is to soccer) competition.
For the purposes of this argument, a person that doesn't fulfull the criteria for entering a FIFA-sanctioned match but once did (like Valentino in bodybuilding) might not be an active professional football player, but is a retired football player. That was my argument, and it remains. I don't care if Valentino is practicing since it is irrelevant to the case I'm making. Which was from the begining that people from the bodybuilding scene can grow extremely odd-looking without being photoshop jobs. I could post people who are IFBB ready and are still making me puke, will that cap off this side of this strange argument I find myself into?
QuoteWhen did I say he was disqualified due to steroid use??? House rules? I was talking about regulations from the sport's governing body. I'm using that as the absolute definition, because otherwise it'd be pointless arguing, since every definition would be subjective and it would boil down to a difference of opinion, "agree to disagree" and rainbows and kittens.
Fair enough, but as I said, show me a 'proper' bodybuilder and let's discuss pukage over that, Valentino's not really that useful to my argument, which is based on a pretty natural destaste for this type of body-warping.
QuoteA majority of NFL, MLB, cycling, and Olympic athletes use anabolic steroids. It's difficult to test for, especially when minimal cycles are needed for results. Not really sure how this is relevant.
The documentaries I saw made a direct connection between such abnormal physiques as Valentino's and steroid use. While even the documentaries concerned said that the link isn't exactly medically proven and that Valentino was injecting a lot of things besides steroids, it's not really the level of detail that interests me. What interests me is this: the human body becomes like that of the bodybuilder through not only training and dieting, but injecting stuff into you. That's pretty gross for me.
Even if you take the injecting out of the equation though, and we can all pretend body builders get like that through just training, just one look at the models (I can't pretend they're athletes, as for all their rigorious excercise and dieting in the end what they do is stand, flex and smile) walking the distance to the stage, duck-footed, their own bodies hindering their basic function of WALKING or CROSSING THEIR ARMS I find that pretty gross and depressing as well.
QuoteIt's his name. The one his parents gave him in the real off-line world. If I called him "buddy" or "pal" then I could see how that's snide. "Chief" has a nice ring to it also.
But you're not my parent. And this is the internet, it's considered proper decorum to adress someone as he chose to be adressed online, unless specifically stated otherwise. I go by 'Helm' in this forum, not Telemachus. What you did then, implies some sort of familiarity there between the two of us that calls for the omission of this decorum, where there is none. We are neither friends nor have we ever extensively talked, even. Can you see how that could be considered snide? I didn't take insult to that though, but the reasoning you provided for it seems dodgy.
QuoteContinuing the metal analogy, say I assert that The Doobie Brothers
As I said, go ahead and post bodybuilders who are bodybuilders, and probably I'll feel grossed out too. If Valentino is the 'Linkin Park' equivallent to my metal, then show me the 'Iron Maiden' equivallent to my metal and let's discuss this perfect-looking man.
How's this? I think they are goblins.
(http://www.emayhem.com/profiles/71/media/20060726jbBodyBuilding_450.jpg)
Quote from: Helm on Mon 12/03/2007 17:27:19
For the purposes of this argument, a person that doesn't fulfull the criteria for entering a FIFA-sanctioned match but once did (like Valentino in bodybuilding) might not be an active professional football player, but is a retired football player. That was my argument, and it remains.
For this analogy to be parallel, your ex-FIFA competitor would be a paraplegic. Athletes can return to the sport after retiring, unlike Valentino's case.
You seem to be splitting hairs just to find a way to justify your original assertion. Sure some IFBB bodybuilders appear freakish in their competition photos. Valentino, however freakish he may look, is not in this category. It's like looking at a wigger food court gangsta and calling all hip hop artists ugly. Please understand this fallacy.
Quote...Valentino's not really that useful to my argument...
Is this the closest you will get to admitting you were wrong? ;)
Quote...the human body becomes like that of the bodybuilder through not only training and dieting, but injecting stuff into you.
This statement is false. I would hope these documentaries had the integrity not to make a point like this. There are plenty of drug-free bodybuilders (Skip La Cour, for instance). Even with drugs, it takes lots of work to build a similar physique.
Second thing you should know: in a competition, a bodybuilder can look like he does in the photos for maybe a few days max. By the time he hits the stage, he's so dehydrated and underweight (generally lost about 40 pounds or so in a short amount of time before a competition).
To make another music analogy, it's not like Gene Simmons wears face paint to the grocery store. :)
Quote
I can't pretend they're athletes, as for all their rigorious excercise and dieting in the end what they do is stand, flex and smile
Again, I'll avoid arguing over the opinion portions of your statements. Just...credibility...ethos. Think about your own athletic achievements before you belittle other's.
Quote
I go by 'Helm' in this forum, not Telemachus. What you did then, implies some sort of familiarity there between the two of us that calls for the omission of this decorum, where there is none.
Ok, I apologize. I'm used to a social environment where acquaintances call me by my Christian name, so this is unusual to me. I did not know that its use is exclusive to your immediate family. This is the first time you've corrected that, so in my defense, I couldn't have known. It was still a blunder, so I hope you can see past this transgression.
Quote
As I said, go ahead and post bodybuilders who are bodybuilders, and probably I'll feel grossed out too. If Valentino is the 'Linkin Park' equivallent to my metal, then show me the 'Iron Maiden' equivallent to my metal and let's discuss this perfect-looking man.
Why? You have very entrenched views. It'd be like taking trailer trash to the Museum of Modern Art. Hearing "my kid could draw that" is not going to be very fulfilling for me. :)
I'm glad this argument is over, then.
Nevermind actual bodybuilders, what about the people who view this "sport"?
Is it just the "Whoa, dude! You are RIPPED!" factor, or is it something else?
Past instances where I've happened to catch a TV broadcast of a bodybuilding event, for any amount of time longer than it takes me to depress the next channel button on my remote, the only reason I can see for watching is to compare how freakish these people can get.
The sport itself seems to be based on rewarding the person who can develop their body to the most extremely defined degree. The only goal is to be more ripped than the person before you. The competion is actually over before it has began, as the competitor who turns up with the best defined set of muscles has already won. Where is the appeal in this event for a spectator?except for oily, orange people.
I'm sure somebody is going to point out that it isn't that basic, and there is a whole set of variables that contestants are judged on, etc, etc. But for the spectator it seems to boil down to the same thing; a parade of oily people pulling shapes. I just don't see the appeal.
It's like Crufts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crufts), except the contestants are oily orange-skinned people.
BB, I don't get it. If Valentino builds his body, how do you define him? I still see it as a definition of what you do than a profession.
Sounds to me like saying a person who can sing isn't a singer unless they have a record contract.
Track and field athletes run. I run. Therefore, I am a track and field athlete. Sounds funny, right?
Bodybuilding is more than just lifting weights, just like track and field is about more than just running.
Does that help clarify it for you?
The problem is that most laymen - along with probably most dictionaries - have a more liberal view on the term, and do not automatically connect it with all those rules and codes and abbreviations that you have insight in. Most people simply consider a person who builds his body a bodybuilder, full stop.
But I think we now know better. We now know that people who build their bodies are bodybuilders to the same limited extent as those who simply run automatically become track and field athletes.
When you say track and field athlete, that suggests an athlete that goes on track and field!
It would be like saying "Runner", to that effect. It doesnt explain if they run proffessionally or not.
When you say bodybuilder, that suggests someone who builds their body!
I think it's an insufficient description, if anything.
Now, looking at this wiki, of which I don't have the fullest confidence in, it being a wiki, but...
QuoteBodybuilding is the process of developing muscle fibres through the combination of weight training, specific caloric intake, and rest. Someone who engages in this activity is referred to as a bodybuilder. As a sport, called competitive bodybuilding, bodybuilders display their physiques to a panel of judges, who assign points based on their aesthetic appearance.
EDIT: Then Andail posts, haha