I need to know the law.

[DanielH]

My game is set in Britain, and I need to know the law concerning civilians solving crimes... legal or illegal? I'm from Britain but I am surprisingly uneducated concerning civilians and crime fighting. Do any of you know?

[Da_Elf]

i think if it was just a civilian he/she would get into alot of trouble snooping around. a PI might have more luck since its his job.

[LimpingFish]

Solving crimes? As a hobby? Like all those Sunday afternoon ITV shows, about little old ladies solving murders in Crumpets-on-Sea?

Not too sure. But since it would more than likely interfere with any ongoing police investigation, I would say...illegal.

But...

If it's a crime on which the police has already closed the book, or already declared solved (for whatever reason), then I'm not so sure. I presume a license of some sort would be in order if the investigation involved interviewing witness/victims, accessing police documents, etc, and for various other legal necessities.

I'm not sure how you would find out for certain.

[DanielH]

Without disclosing any spoilers:

It's a REALLY serious crime, ongoing (as in, happened earlier that day) and already being researched by the police. It's not as a hobby, the crime is *plays dramatic music* personal. Probably illegal, as I thought, but I would prefer some specifics.

[thebaddie]

sherlock holmes lived in england and he investigates in crimes, helping the police officers (right it's a romance but..)

and dylan dog (an italian comic book) lives in england, right it's a private investigator (about nightmares) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Dog)

i think that if a friend of your protagonist is a police officer, you have no problems  :

[DanielH]

i think that if a friend of your protagonist is a police officer, you have no problems  :

Strangely, that is exactly the situation my protagonist is in.

[Andail]

Everyone's entitled to investigate in a crime, but you'd be pretty limited in what you can actually do. You can't put a person under surveilllance, you can't interrogate people and you won't have access to crime scenes. You can only intervene and hold down a criminal if you caught him in the act, or if he's a danger to you or people around you, and only until the police arrives.
Then again, there is far more information, records and acts etc, that civilians have access to than one might think. Lots of information is actually public, even though authorities don't exactly paint signs to it.

[Misj']

Everyone's entitled to investigate in a crime, but you'd be pretty limited in what you can actually do. You can't put a person under surveilllance, you can't interrogate people and you won't have access to crime scenes.

While not entirely sure about the UK, I do believe this is not entirely true. If you are - for example - a journalist, you can interrogate someone...although it's called 'interview', you're not allowed to touch him, and you can't force him to stay (detain him). But you can try to 'force' a confession out of him (and when taped with a hidden camera it might actually hold in court) by asking the right questions. Also, as long as you don't get a restraining order, you can put someone under surveillance (you might call it stalking); because there's no law against you being in a public place (even if that public place is underneath a lamppost opposite to the suspects house). And if he leads you somewhere (although you're still not allowed to touch him)... Again, it's better to have it on camera for the court, so it's not his word against yours.

Also, evidence gathered by the police has a stronger impact in court, because the gathering followed strict rules. On the other hand...a normal civilian can get information that's beyond the grasp of the police (assuming that entrapment or braking and entering is illegal in the UK). How well this evidence will stick in court could be doubtful, but while a piece of evidence might be illegal when gathered/obtained by the police themselves, it is not necessarily so when the evidence is obtained without knowledge of the police and - once gathered - is given to them. They're not - for example - allowed to tap someones phone...but if recordings of the conversation exist and they obtain these conversations during the course of their investigation than it's a whole different ballgame.

It's easier of course if you are a crime reporter for some magazine...because you'll already have some knowledge about the criminal world, probably even some contacts (both with the police and the other side), you have an alibi why you're doing it (it's your job), it might be easier to get some of the equipment needed (although I'm pretty sure you can get everything you need in your local hardware and electronics shop (or pharmacist)), you have already an established reputation digging into crimes (which will surely help you to convince the court), and chances are that people will listen when you make your findings public (because they think you know what you're talking about). As long as he makes sure he doesn't obstruct 'justice', the police might not like it, but it's not illegal (I think). However...if someone at the force doesn't like you (because of your mustache or something) and feels you're doing their job or prevent them from doing it, you'll probably get arrested (whether it's illegal or not)...

Or I might be completely wrong...

[LGM]

Misj is right. You can as a civillian investigate anything, but the line is hazy. If you're being a bug in the bonnet of the police, then you might get charged with interference. But, as Zodiac proves, if you're a journalist of some sort there are some things you can do to help the police, even, but often times you're seen as a nuisance.

Basically, if you stay under the radar, you can investigate to your hearts content... As far as you're not breaking into places (or at least don't get caught.)

[Radiant]

Don't you have citizen's arrest in the UK, and so forth?

For the sake of putting down a good story, it's not an unreasonable assumption. It's hard unbelievable even if it technically might not happen all that much in real life.

[Emerald]

sherlock holmes lived in england and he investigates in crimes, helping the police officers (right it's a romance but..)

Actually, Sherlock Holmes was a detective in Scotland Yard. He was a police officer.
Although Dr. Watson is not, so... I dunno.


I'd agree with Limpy up there. Police are reaaal picky about who they let investigate cases, especially in Britain. You can't just walk in and start interviewing witnesses and talking to coroners. They don't even let most police officers do that - the peons just end up guarding the scene of the crime, or canvassing the neighborhood. Boring stuff.
Even moreso when it's a serious crime.


Just to be sure, I'd make him some sort of consultant (like, some kind of genius with three PhDs who is of obvious use to a police investigation, instead of 'some guy'. They don't pass out case files like pizza slices you know...)

I don't know about other people, but there's nothing more annoying in films when some random guy just traipses onto a crime scene and starts poking the corpse and the cops are just like "Hey, do you wanna do our job for us?"

Don't you have citizen's arrest in the UK, and so forth?

Meh, in theory, yes. In practice, it's not likely. You're allowed to detain someone who you have witnessed commit a serious crime (one deserving of 5 years or more in prison - though I'm not sure how you determine that...) but chances are it's easier said than done. You're better off just stay out of it and call the cops. Y'know, if you like being alive...

[Ghost]

Well I know for sure that a civilian MUST report a serious crime to the police if he learns about one, else he'll be guilty of withholding information. But I think it is safe to assume that once this report was made, no-one can really argue with said civilian investigating a bit further. Getting in the way of professionals, though, is also something that can get you chucked quite easily, at least here in Germany. So, a civilian reporting a crime and then investigating on his own without hindering the police should basically be okay, though a bit lukewarm adventure material...

Which makes me wonder, how did the Famous Five always get away with being horrible prodnoses? And the Secret Seven, too? And the Three Investigators... aaaaaaand Inspector Gadget!

[Lamak]

Actually, Sherlock Holmes was a detective in Scotland Yard. He was a police officer.
Although Dr. Watson is not, so... I dunno.

Actually... No. Even though Sherlock regularly helps Lestrade or Gregson, he doesn't work for Scotland Yard as a detective. He's not even a police officer. In fact, he's a consultant. Everything's clear about that in the first novel -"A study in scarlet"- when Watson asks Holmes about his activities.

Making your character a grade-A egghead seems a nice option, as Emerald said, but you don't have to make him own Phd or stuff like that.

You can also check some TV shows like Monk or Psych (personally never saw one single episode but hey... thank you imdb !)... Or contact the Metropolitan Police directly.

[Emerald]

Actually... No. Even though Sherlock regularly helps Lestrade or Gregson, he doesn't work for Scotland Yard as a detective. He's not even a police officer. In fact, he's a consultant. Everything's clear about that in the first novel -"A study in scarlet"- when Watson asks Holmes about his activities.

Oh. To be honest, I only ever watched the black & white films - never did the novels. I always wondered why he'd tell Inspector Lestrade to arrest people, but I figured he was just lazy...

You can also check some TV shows like Monk or Psych (personally never saw one single episode but hey... thank you imdb !)... Or contact the Metropolitan Police directly.

Monk was a cop - a living legend - but when his wife was murdered his OCD resulted in a suspension from the force. Though he was kept on as a consultant, because he's a genius savant.

Shawn (from psych) is just some random guy who pretends to be psychic.

[Meowster]

I believe it would be very risky to be a citizen getting involved in crimes, as you'd probably have to break into crime scenes etc to investigate, therefore people would be very suspicious of you and probably think you were involved in the crime...

Doesn't something called Citizens Arrest exist in the UK though?

[Emerald]

Doesn't something called Citizens Arrest exist in the UK though?

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=33747.msg438397#msg438397



Edit: Basically, you need to see them actually doing it. Only an officer of the law can arrest people on a suspicion. Which means that you're risking your life by doing so (since no criminal is going to go "Aww nuts, you caught me. Oh well, I guess I'll go wait in the corner for the real cops to come...")

Also, it has to be a serious crime - you can't arrest someone for doing something like littering, or calling you an asshole.


It's funny, I remember reading about a case somewhere in Northern Ireland, where this kid tried to break into someone's house. But while he was climbing over the fence, his ankle got caught between two wooden stakes, and he tripped and fell, and his ankle snapped in half, and he was left dangling there in extreme pain. He shouted for help, and the family woke up and called the cops. It was obvious to everyone he was a burglar - he even had a ski mask. However, the burglar sued the family, and amazingly won, based on the fact that the family didn't help him down from the fence, leaving him to suffer. Because all he technically did was climb over a fence - which was minor trespassing - it was considered unlawful to detain him.
Ironically, he probably made more money that way than he would have stolen...

[Andail]

It's funny, I remember reading about a case somewhere in Northern Ireland, where this kid tried to break into someone's house. But while he was climbing over the fence, his ankle got caught between two wooden stakes, and he tripped and fell, and his ankle snapped in half, and he was left dangling there in extreme pain. He shouted for help, and the family woke up and called the cops. It was obvious to everyone he was a burglar - he even had a ski mask. However, the burglar sued the family, and amazingly won, based on the fact that the family didn't help him down from the fence, leaving him to suffer. Because all he technically did was climb over a fence - which was minor trespassing - it was considered unlawful to detain him.
Ironically, he probably made more money that way than he would have stolen...

For once, a lawsuit doesn't sound completely ridiculous to me. Normally when criminals sue their (potential) victims it strikes you as abuse of the judicial system, but this one...I mean, especially if it was a kid, why not help him down?
And why didn't he throw away or hide the ski mask while dangling there?

[Emerald]

For once, a lawsuit doesn't sound completely ridiculous to me. Normally when criminals sue their (potential) victims it strikes you as abuse of the judicial system, but this one...I mean, especially if it was a kid, why not help him down?
And why didn't he throw away or hide the ski mask while dangling there?

Well, it was the upper limit of 'kid' - he was like 19 or 20 or something. Old enough to know what he was doing, but young enough to suck at it.

As for the ski mask - I imagine it's not the first thing you think of when you're hanging upside down by a broken ankle in the middle of the night.

And as for the family, I don't blame them. If you were woken up in the middle of the night by the frantic hollering of some man wearing a ski-mask, would you wander out into the dark to help the guy?

[MrColossal]

I call into question the truthiness of this account. I'd love to see a news report on this because usually every time one hears something like this it turns out to be an urban/internet legend.

A 20ish year old burglar being able to afford legal council and a long legal battle over a broken ankle raises a red flag.

[Emerald]

A 20ish year old burglar being able to afford legal council and a long legal battle over a broken ankle raises a red flag.

Shrug. Maybe he had inheritance. Or maybe the lawyer really knew what he was doing, and decided to take the risk.

I remember it was all over SkyNews a few years ago. I don't know if they have archives or anything to search through... Unfortunately for you, my laziness supersedes my desire to be right