"If I Were The Devil" -Paul Harvey

[rharpe]

I don't believe in god therefore I have no morals therefore I am only out for myself and don't care about others. This is your claim right?

Note the happy face... this means i was joking. 

Then explain to me how you know who I am and what I do in a day to warrant this belief that I am out for myself only.

I only know you by what you write. If you are in total contrast with what I write, then you sir, are just what you say you are.

Also, it's ok for you to attack people but people can't attack you?

I don't attack, but defend my beliefs and faith.

Also, did you know no one went to the bathroom on leave it to beaver... I fear your household!

Nice one! 

[MrColossal]

I'd say you attacked Alynn in his thread you say you defended your beliefs, however your beliefs weren't brought into question, no one asked for them either. The same with the Lennon thread.

Ok, so if you say that because someone doesn't believe in god they have no morals, and I say I don't believe in god then that means I have no morals... Then what am I doing with all these morals?!

Also there are more people here who believe you are a crazy fundamentalist with an awkward view on the world than believe me to be amoral, are you exactly as they say you are?

[iamus]

In a less antagonistic fashion....

Do you still think this Rharpe?

Have your opinons changed at all from what you've been reading since?

[LGM]

SSH: Thanks for saying what I mean to say.

And rharpe: Morals are very hard to define. If a person generally knows the difference between that set ideal of right and wrong, but they slip up a few times.. That doesn't make them immoral. It just means they're human. Just because a person doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they don't have morals.

[rharpe]

I'd say you attacked Alynn in his thread you say you defended your beliefs, however your beliefs weren't brought into question, no one asked for them either.

I found the request inappropriate, therefore I made a stance. The mods OKed the thread and let it continue after I requested them to bury the thread. At least I gave my opinion. 

The same with the Lennon thread.

Again, I made a comment and everyone attacked me. I was not on the offensive, but the defensive.

Ok, so if you say that because someone doesn't believe in god they have no morals, and I say I don't believe in god then that means I have no morals... Then what am I doing with all these morals?!

What morals do you have? Do you know what morality is? I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.

[Redwall]

rharpe, don't play the victim.

[SSH]

Unlike the way you jump on other people...

I guess you're right. Sometimes defending my faith and beliefs means I need to rough'n some people up.

I remember when Jesus said that....Oh wait, He didn't. Because he wasn't crazy.

Or did he? John 2:12-17

but surely time-travelling is against nature, Eric, therefore you are amoral!

One thing I like about Jesus, as described in the Bible, is that he hung out with those the religious authorities thought amoral and he didn't try and stone them, as others did. He also kicked some butt in the temple when he was annoyed.

If I were the devil I'd make the self-righteous make fools of themselves and their religion...

[MrColossal]

How would you like me to define my morals to you?

I can't possibly list every situation in which I would have to make a moral choice and give you the response so...

also, that means that some of the founding fathers of the US had no morals, you'd be hard pressed to sell that to anyone.

[Damien]

Isn't christianity against prejudices? Prejudices like all non christians being immoral, for example.

You are lucky your God is forgiving. 

[DGMacphee]

Edit---Eric, everyone knows the book of leviticus states in chapter nine that those who subject themselves to such amorality as bathroom breaks shall burn in hell with John Candy for all eternity.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

It's difficult to support the assertion that all people who don't believe in God also don't have any morals. This can be proven wrong with a counterexample. I think it is unfair to say that Eric has no morals; over the six years or so I've known him over the Internet, I've always found him to be a really nice guy with a cute sense of humour. I highly doubt he'd ever kill anyone, or molest children, or anything extreme like that... and that requires morals.

What would be a more accurate statement to make would be that people who don't believe in God don't have all of the same morals as people who do believe in God. After all, there's a subset of morals that only really apply to those who have a worldview that involves God, including, but not limited to, faith and obedience.

[Nikolas]

Now, I take rharpe to be a clever and rather open minded guy (<-for his bieliefs and where he stands...)

I would imagine that it would be severelly stupid to try and judge somebody (and actually condemn, or if not decide), over the internet...

Can somebody define morals in a subjective way, in a way that hasn't got to do with religion or the place you live, or where you grew, or your family? Cause I can't, thus morals are generall a little different for everyone. So, at least I, I feel it impossible to judge...

[MrColossal]

I highly doubt he'd ever kill anyone, or molest children, or anything extreme like that...

And you just keep on saying that whenever the police come by and we won't have a problem!

[esper]

SSH: great example. I do think one thing is funny, though. Jesus never once, in the entirety of the New Testament, EVER EVER EVER attacked anyone who did not already profess to be religious. He tore the crap out of the Pharisees, and the Suducees, and the people who were trying to make a profit in the temple, but whenever he came across the "amoral" people of the world, he didn't try to kick them in the nuts... He treated them with every respect and won them to himself by showing them he genuinely cared about them.

Jesus hates religion, too....

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

Jesus hates religion, too....

Nah, I'd say He hates the abuse of power disguised as religion.

[esper]

What is religion but the abuse of power?

[rharpe]

How would you like me to define my morals to you?

I can't possibly list every situation in which I would have to make a moral choice and give you the response so...

also, that means that some of the founding fathers of the US had no morals, you'd be hard pressed to sell that to anyone.

Just answer the following questions:

1.) Do you think pornography is wrong?
2.) Do you think fornication is wrong?
3.) Do you think cheating is wrong?
4.) Do you think adultery is wrong?
5.) Do you think immodesty is wrong?
6.) Do you think erotism is wrong?
7.) Do you think polygamy is wrong?
8.) Do you think sodomy is wrong?
9.) Do you think hedonism is wrong?
10.) Do you think incest is wrong?

[Squinky]

The fact that you feel you need to ask these questions seems pretty insulting. Do you really think Eric is an Incestual Child Humper?


---edited because I spell incestual all dumb like....

[MrColossal]

He's not saying I'm an incestual child humper, he's seeing if I'm ok with incenstual child humpers... I'll answer them in a second, I

have to go poop.

Pooped:

1.) Do you think pornography is wrong?

Well, a dictionary definition of pornography is:

"Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal"

So let's take that first: If a man takes a sexy photo of himself and gives it to his wife I don't see how that is wrong. Do you?

You probably ment the porno industry that creates tapes and images and websites full of naked people and sex acts [some bizarre] and

usually charges for them... No, there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong with the industry is when someone does something

illegal. When someone is forced to do something they don't want to do or is coerced with drugs into it. That's wrong, but it isn't

limited to just the porno industry.

2.) Do you think fornication is wrong?

Dictionary:

Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.

Well now you have to take the word marriage into account. There are tons of cultures with different takes on marriage and I don't know

them all so let's assume that marriage usually means 2 people together forever [or until divorce]. That being said, I am not against

people who aren't married making love. And marriage has more to do with governmental laws than it does religion so I don't see how this

applies to god. After all "By the power vested in me by the state of Kansas." Shouldn't it be "By the power vested in my by the lord god

and with some help from Kansas."?

3.) Do you think cheating is wrong?

Cheating on a lover or spouse you mean? [are these all about sex?] I personally would never cheat on Jess. And I'm not talking about

this "If you ever look at another woman and find her attractive, you're cheating!" deal, I mean sleeping with another woman or man.

4.) Do you think adultery is wrong?

Dictionary:

Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.

I see this as different from cheating because you appear too also or you'd have only listed one of them. Cheating appears to be without

the spouses knowledge, this could be with the spouse in the room! If everyone involved is ok with it and having a good time, I don't see

why not.

5.) Do you think immodesty is wrong?

Even looking at the dictionary I don't know how to take this word. Someone who wears a short skirt or a bikini? I'm confused.

6.) Do you think erotism is wrong?

Again, I'm sure you'd agree [maybe not!] that in the context of a marriage, sex and eroticsm is super! Tie your husband to the bed and

slather him in honey for all I care. Between unmarried couples and in the world in general? What's the problem? Erotic images and

writing and feelings aren't evil. They have their place in a society, you don't put nipples on school buses but in a book or media ment

for those of legal age? Why not?

7.) Do you think polygamy is wrong?

I don't know. I don't know enough about it. But like with everything there are people who do just fine with it and people who are hurt

by it, I'm sure.

8.) Do you think sodomy is wrong?

Dictionary:

Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality

Trick question unless you only ment anal sex. If you only ment anal sex then I say no, nothing wrong with it. As long as both parties

are cool with it. There are tons of unnatural forms of sex [natural being defined as vaginal intercoure with a penis] and as long as

it's legal and the people are consenting adults, go for it.

9.) Do you think hedonism is wrong?

Dictionary:

Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses

I'm guessing this is again related to sex since all the others are, but it's too vague and meaningless to me. I can't think of this word

in relation to the world and people in it.

10.) Do you think incest is wrong?

Yup!

************************************************************

Well, that was a whole lot of sex! Frankly, I'm pooped!

If after answer 10 questions about sex you can say I'm amoral then that opens the floodgates to more questions, does that mean I have no

qualms with killing people? Stealing TVs? Eating people? Beating up old women? Scratching my name in cars? Setting fire to hospitals?

Dictionary:

Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral.
Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong.

If because I have no problem with someone taking it up the pooper in a consenting fashion means I don't care about right or wrong, the

world probably has about 150 moral people in it, and they're all under the age of 1.

Now, I have one for you, just one really...

1.) Do you think it's wrong to steal?

Eric

*I only quoted the dictionary so that we could maybe agree on a definition before discussing the word, if you have another definition you prefer for a word, please say so!

[esper]

For Pete's sake... What does it even matter? Where is this even going? You know, I can think of several serial killers I've read about that killed because they thought the things on that list were wrong... I'm not a big fan of any of those things. I have some Wiccan friends who would agree with me, and some atheist friends, and my brother, who is a Shinto monk, is feverishly against all that and more.

I also knew of a man who was songleader in the church down the street who was carted off to jail for feeling up little girls on the church bus. I know for a fact, working in the hotel industry, that whenever there is a preacher's meeting in town, the amount of pornography rented in the in-room movies doubles. I'm also keenly aware that priests all over America have been grabbing little boys by their buttocks, ripping them apart, staring lovingly inside and then inserting their heads in roughly up to the shoulders, and the church officials are covering it up.

I also think you fail to notice that the Bible says if you are guilty in one point of the law, then you have offended in all points. Have you ever told a lie, or worn gold? Has your wife ever braided her hair, or worn clothes of mixed fabrics? Oh, dear! I gues that means you're guilty of the entire list you posted!