Indy Joneses!

[ildu]

Crazy! I didn't notice him not knowing. Was Indy in the army once? Why do the FBI or whoever call him General Jones? And what was with Mac's exit?

Indy went to WW2 after his previous adventures in the 1930's. They called him Colonel, which is weird since he would've had to have a full decades-long career in the army to make it to Colonel. Let's just say Commander James Bond is a lot more plausible. To me, Indy is a pacifist renegade, who is in many ways similar to his mightiest archeology foes, but perhaps a little less cynical when it comes to personal and cultural gain over politics. Sure, he can be expected to join the fight against the Nazis, but a full military career? My Indy is not a conforming square - he'd find a more exciting way to fight bad people.

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He's lying on the floor being fat and could easily have just got up and walked the three feet to where Indy and the others were, but looks at Indy and says something like, "Its okay Indy, I'll be alright." and then gets sucked into oblivion. I really didn't like that part...mainly because he was intent on getting out with some loot & ends up on the floor a few metres from Indy and as I said just rolled around like a fat man and could easily have survived and then said some completely unrelated stupid line before his death. Maybe I'm the only one who thought that, but if someone can explain it, I'd be greatful

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I didn't like this at all, nor did I really like the whole ending sequence. It's like they've tried to offer the audience the same chance of redemption as with Ilsa in the Last Crusade reaching for the Grail. Indy forgets all deceptions and offers to save their lives, but they choose greed over that. That's all good, but the particular scene in this film was just stupid. In fact, I think they should've scrapped the whole character, or perhaps DEVELOP him, maybe.

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I thought the whole atomic bomb and FBI interview scenes were completely botched. It would've been better to just cut everything out starting from when Indy finds the nuclear town to when he's teaching at Barnett (the scene after the FBI interview. They probably thought adding a nuclear test would add some 50's cold war atmosphere, which may have worked, if it were done more discretely. As Indy exits the fridge, he's also quite close to the mushroom cloud. Standing so close while the mushroom is still going up would mean he would die within seconds from the afterblasts and the drawbacks. He would at least be severely burned and get radiation poisoning, no matter how well the FBI scrubs him down.

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BUT, realism is a two-way street with Indy films. I certainly never complained when the gang jumped in a blow-up boat from an airplane in Temple of Doom only to land on solid ground without being harmed, and surviving probably the worst cliff drop I've seen in a movie right after falling from the airplane. I just think they take it too far this time.

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As for the FBI scene, I thought it was appropriate, but just badly put together and acted. No suspense, the agents are total jerks and Indy's military career is mentioned and then conveniently sidetracked. They even introduce a seemingly central character, General Ben Ross, one of Indy's best military buddies, who is never heard of or mentioned again in the film.

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I may be nitpicking, but it's just so annoying that some of these issues got into the final movie. It could've been a complete classic. Right now, the film enjoys an 8.6/10 rating on IMDB, going past such classics as Scarface and Twelve Monkeys to #172 on the 250 best films of all time list. It certainly doesn't deserve such a high rating, and I guess it's mostly due to the novelty effect.

[SSH]

I think most people like this though:

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The bit with the Fedora right at the end

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I agree with you about Mac, and the interrogation, ildu.

New movies always shoot up into the top 100 on IMDB then find their correct position later.

[MrColossal]

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Mac fell down and was sucked into the machine because he was covered in gold, as soon as he put a gold necklace on I thought "Ah, he's going to be sucked into the inevitable destruction at the end because of that."

just because that's the reason he was killed doesn't help me accept his apparent UNQUENCHABLE THIRST FOR GOLD! that lead to his ruin...

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I think it was a fine movie and a fine Indy movie, if it came out 2 years after the 3rd Indy movie people wouldn't be so harsh towards it but alas...

I did enjoy:

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How the opening shot has the Paramount mountain turning in to a mole hill

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edit:
oh yea, forgot to add, the main thing that angers me about this movie

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is that it will spur on the retarded and racist beliefs of Erich von Däniken. This movie hit all the major points of his book Chariot of the Gods. Nasca lines, aliens bring technology to primitive non-white cultures, I mean, how else would primitive non-white cultures have the ability to do things like dentistry and seemingly major surgeries if not for aliens teaching them, there's no way they could have learned through basic human achievement! They were too stupid!

However, this is obviously a specific gripe and not involving Indiana Jones at all, just stupid humans.

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[Nacho]

Idlu, Indy is a lot of things, but not a peacifist renegade... He has been fighting since he was a teenager, in Mexico, the WWI, and it makes a lot of sense that he fought on WWII. I am not sure, but I think he joined to American Army in WWI, after America Joined the war effort (Originally Indy enlists as a dutch in the french army, I think), so, a career of Coronel makes sense, I guess. I think he ends WWI as a Lieutenant.

[evenwolf]

Oh yeah!

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I didn't want to feel left out without my own spoiler box! 

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[m0ds]

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You're gay, Jesse!

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Thanks for all the infos here, its helped me unterstand what went on a bit better. The "colonel" thing is silly, there's no reference in any of the other films, that I remember, that indicates he had a long military life. As soon as I heard them call him Colonel Jones, I scoffed...it was dumb.

I also agree with Eric though, the Paramount logo sequence made me crack up In fact, it was just wonderful to see the old style Paramount logo not one of the new 3D ones. It felt like I was back in the early 90's...I just love that kind of retro stuff! The titles at the beginning and scrolling credits were AWFUL. The intro scene with the race was about 1 minute too long, I thought. I got bored. But when they opened fire it all got exciting again! And going back to the last shot, which apparently a lot of people like, I liked it because it was almost as if Shia "Im going to be the new Ind!!!" Indy: "Oh no you're not!" ... anyway. yeah :p

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If they make an Indy 5, please please PLEASE if you're Lucas or Spielberg reading this, let Jonathan Lawrence direct it. It needs a fresh director, and frankly I think his film Templars is going to rock the socks off Indy 4. The dialogue is brilliant, the characters well developed and...well, there's none of this sci fi shit. So give him a chance

[evenwolf]

I still haven't seen IJ 4


Maybe I can watch it on the IMAX tonight! ----edit----- No Imax, damn.   No DLP either wtf?

[monkey0506]

Remember everyone:

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In the event of a nuclear explosion, hide in the refrigerator. The freon will keep you nice and cool.

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Saw a little more tonight as I was in the movie again. Also got a $25 tip on an $18 check. Can't beat that!

[LGM]

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he would've been boiled alive in that fridge...

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[Stupot]

I saw this film Thursday night and I must say I had mixed feelings...
It is a great Indy yarn and Shia LaBeouf's Character was a real treat.
But if you read into it like I did you can deduce that he will NOT be the new Indy.

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At the end when the hat blows across the room to Shia's feet and he picks it up and is about to put it on... the Indy theme is playing and the audience is supposed to think 'ooh, he's going to be the new Indy', but Ford comes along and snatches the hat away from him and to me it was clear that they were saying Indy is Ford's character, nobody else's.

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A few gripes and groans:

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I thought Ray Winstone's character was completely pointless and his constant double-crossing became predictable and boring.  Take him out of the film and there would have been absolutely no difference in the outcome (Apart from the fact that he was leaving little flashy things on the floor for the bad guys to find him - but since when have Indy's adversaries ever had to explain how they found him.

The 'Knowledge is treasure' thing was a nice touch, though.

What got on my nerves the most was how willing Indy was to help the bad guys to decipher the codes and work out the clues, you almost forgotten that they'd just been trying to kill each other.

My last complaint...  Not only did they resort to the tired cliche of the boat going over the waterfall... oh no... they restorted to it THREE TIMES....... IN A ROW!!!

But it wasn't all bad... I like the fact that they tried to weave in the whole Roswell/UFO paranoia of the era, but I don't feel they particularly pulled it off....

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Having said all that the film is TONS better than Temple of Doom, which I still love... so my Indy Order is 3, 1, 4, 2  which 3 ooonly just pipping 1 to the post.

[R4L]

Just saw it. I loved it! It was just as good as the older movies! Harrison Ford still makes a great Indy, and the movie was very fun.

I loved Mack and Indy. They were funny in the most hectic parts, like:

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When Indy is kicking everyone's ass in the jeep in the jungle, and Mack greets him with a "JONESY!" and Indy replies, "Hi Mack!" then punches his face off lol.

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I thought the story was really good too. CG was a little annoying, but it was used well IMO, and it didn't make me want to leave the theatre or anything.

I would pay to see it again. 

[skuttleman]

Remember everyone:

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In the event of a nuclear explosion, hide in the refrigerator. The freon will keep you nice and cool.

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Regarding the fridge:

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The fridge said "Lead Lined" on it.  Lining your bomb shelter with lead is allegedly the only way to survive a nuclear blast (from within the blast radius). However, I think he would have had many broken bones from flying across the desert as he did (and probably snapped his neck). Of course, I'd seen the first three Indiana Jones, and it would have been retarded of me to expect this one to be realistic, so I liked it.

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[evenwolf]

I saw it!

Everyone related to this movie did a great job.  The actors were great, the directing was great, the production value was amazing.


BUT THE WRITING SUCKED. 

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No one has mentioned this yet.    Steven Spielberg is known for all his alien movies but Indiana Jones is the one genre that was pure adventure and exotic eye candy within the mysteries of the human race.   As soon as you put an alien in IJ4, it just becomes another alien movie.    I was furious.

Also, returning to the warehouse where they store the Arc RUINS the ending of Raiders for future generations.     At the end of Raiders you say "Oh my God, they're just going to store this awesome artifact and no one even realizes its there."

When future viewers see the end of Raiders they'll think,  "Hey look!   Its the warehouse with the alien!" They won't see any significance to storing it away.   ( In a warehouse that's so much safer than anywhere else because they test nukes less than a mile away. Right....)

Eric:  How would aliens know about earth irrigation anyways?  You'd figure earth's gravity was a HUGE factor in its own irrigation and agriculture. 

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I still love Spielberg but Lucas has no business writing films.   He just mix and matches car chases with shitty dialogue and lets his name carry the story.   If an amature filmmaker wrote this stuff for his first screenplay he would be laughed at.

[Radiant]

Having just seen the film this week, I agree with most of what I've read above. It was a lot of fun to watch, but the McGuffin was just ridiculous.

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Also, surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge?  : The film would have been better without that scene.

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Anyway, in my opinion it's definitely worth visiting a theater for, but really not as good as the classics. I would not, personally, look forward to another sequel, particularly not one starring Shia. What kind of name is Mutt anyway?

[Radiant]

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I thought Ray Winstone's character was completely pointless and his constant double-crossing became predictable and boring.

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Seconded. Besides, have those flashing devices he has even been invented yet?

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The 'Knowledge is treasure' thing was a nice touch, though.

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Meh. I found it totally cliche, particularly because they had to State It Out Loud.

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The fridge said "Lead Lined" on it.  Lining your bomb shelter with lead is allegedly the only way to survive a nuclear blast (from within the blast radius).

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Yeah, that protects you from radiation. Not from heat, concussion, shockwaves, or indeed a nasty bout of cancer once you step out of it. That scene was just plain silly.

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Also, returning to the warehouse where they store the Arc RUINS the ending of Raiders for future generations.     At the end of Raiders you say "Oh my God, they're just going to store this awesome artifact and no one even realizes its there."

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Hm, interesting point. Am I the only one who thought that Indy would

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find the Ark in there and use it to dispatch the commies?

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[skuttleman]

What kind of name is Mutt anyway?

Well, Indiana was named after a dog.... "Mutt" must be.... a cat of some king?   

[Radiant]

Well, Indiana was named after a dog.... "Mutt" must be.... a cat of some king?   

Yeah, I got that joke, but found it a bit too far-fetched and really not funny. My point is, can you imagine film posters all across down reading "Mutt Williams and the Shrine of Disaster"? Me neither

[skuttleman]

I got that joke, but found it a bit too far-fetched and really not funny. My point is, can you imagine film posters all across down reading "Mutt Williams and the Shrine of Disaster"? Me neither

I agree. I like Shia (in general). I liked him in this movie, but he's no Indiana Jones.

[ildu]

Willie and Short Round from Temple of Doom were also named after dogs.

After a number of days since I saw the movie, I've now determined about what were the biggest drags of the film for me:

1. Almost complete lack of location filming (which made the originals so adventurey and great). The whole movie is filmed inside the US, whereas the three earlier ones were filmed all around the world. I guess the biggest reason for this was stated by Spielberg who said he didn't want to be too far away from his family. It wasn't like it was all filmed in a studio, but not far from it. Also, the more exotic locations were filmed (like Hawaii), and the characters were added later, so that's not too good. I think this is why the University sequences were so much better than any other in the movie - because they actually filmed it at Yale without greenscreening and 3D.

2. CGI. I defy anyone to explain to me why exactly we needed to see those badly-made gophers and monkeys in this film.

3. Some utterly idiotic scenes that can't possibly appeal to anyone in the 5 - 95 age range. In addition to this, a number of badly developed characters, of which a few were completely irrelevent.

4. Too many explanations, especially with the McGuffin. Most of us aren't idiots, so we don't need to be led by hand the whole time. This applies to showing too much, too, like with the McGuffin.

5. The actual lack of a soundtrack. This is difficult for me to believe, but it appears John Williams didn't come up with even one original track for this movie. All music was rehashed from the old films which wouldn't be bad at all by itself, but in addition he ripped off some of his previous totally unrelated work. There's at least one track in Indy 4 from War of the Worlds and possibly another from one of the Harry Potter movies (this one I'm not so sure of yet).

[skuttleman]

2. CGI. I defy anyone to explain to me why exactly we needed to see those badly-made gophers and monkeys in this film.

I'm pretty sure the original script included a forbidden love affair between one of the gophers and one of the monkeys. Kind of a Romeo and Juliet homage. Then they decided to add in all that "Indiana Jones" noise, and the script went a different direction. Who knows what might have been...  :'(

4. Too many explanations, especially with the McGuffin. Most of us aren't idiots, so we don't need to be led by hand the whole time.

I didn't like being held by the hand, either, but I think you're mistaken about the "most of us aren't idiots" part. Most people are.