You may not get the full story from the media, so keep an eye on the fallout heading to a cinema near you soon!
TEH DOOM!
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/63956430march01april.gif)
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2914/exposure3.png)
(Units above don't quite match the radar image above that, but gives you an idea)
And any other Japan radiation crisis talk is relevant here, videos, whatever is needed. Anything you find interesting about this incident.
Quake discussion: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=43125.0
An account of the Quake by Stupot:
QuoteI was walking along the street in Waseda with my friend Ina looking for a decent coffeeshop, when we became aware of a shaking sound coming from one of the shops we walked past. An old lady was standing in the shop's doorway looking up. My eyes followed her gaze and I realised the taller buildings were swinging backwards and forwards. Then I became aware of the ground beneath my feet shaking and lurching. By this point, cars had stopped and people were coming outside to stand in the street.
Man vs ground full story: http://stujapan.blogspot.com/2011/03/big-ass-quake-2011.html
Also, quake affects FoY team's mini-game release, animator SpacePirateCaine another forum member affected:
QuoteJust an update on the current situation with the animations - I had intended to work on them all this weekend, but the earthquake set me back a little, with having to clean my apartment and gather some emergency supplies, etc.
http://www.redcross.org.uk/JapanTsunami
http://www.savethechildren.org.uk
When i clicked on this, i thought this was about the video game :P
Well, I heard yesterday on the news that it actually is a meltdown and even the japanese gouvernements admits that.
Well on the other hand this is really overcovered by german media here. And there's quite a hysteria too. No politician who wants to get any votes can say anything but "lets turn off every nuke we have as soon as possible" even if you know they have acompletely different opinion its quite a farce.
What I dont like about tihs discussion is that the people in japan still have much bigger problems. Think about the tens of thousands who lost their home or relatives. That gets overshadowed by that plant.
On the other hand - they have to get this situation under control - Japan is not big enough to survive a tchernobyl kind of accient (whic i know is still very unlikely)
Your fallout map is inaccurate. This is the accurate version:
(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8981/normal157p.jpg)
No wonder iodine pills are sold out in Finland.
ps. didn't we already have a thread about Japan?
pps. I also though this was about the video game.
Actually since we're a bit close to Japan (than western countries at least), a lot of things are happening here in the recent weeks, from people panicking and buying loads of salt due to ignorance to having rumours about the condition being more severe than reported. We also have special news programmes about the incidents every night on every TV channel.
The meltdown thing is probably definite. All we can hope is the condition would be under control ASAP so that the damage would be minimal. Nearby water and land are already contaminated and it was confirmed yesterday that we already detected radiation in the air here a few days ago, though our government claims that the concentration is very, very low and wouldn't cause immediate troubles atm (but if the condition continues to worsen anything can happen).
Seriously guys, if you consider starting a new life and moving to a whole new country, now would be the right time.
Just take the fucking plane and put as much distance between you and Japan as you can (but don't go to Finland ;))
Quote from: Ouxxey_games on Wed 30/03/2011 08:49:44
Seriously guys, if you consider starting a new life and moving to a whole new countryplane, now would be the right time.
Fixed. :=
Quote
Just take the fucking plane and put as much distance between you and Japan as you can (but don't go to Finland ;))
To TEH M00n!1!!
More seriously though, if something catastrophic really happens there is probably no place to hide (people even said certain unstable isotopes of plutonium in the size of a cube of sugar can already wipe out all population on this planet), so don't worry, just be happy. :D
Quote from: Iceboty V7000a on Wed 30/03/2011 09:10:09
More seriously though, if something catastrophic really happens there is probably no place to hide
Yeah, yeah, right. So let's just grab pure plutonium with our bare hands, right?
STFU and GTFO. :-D
Well, they still have more to leak if they want to reach the levels of Chernobyl. Here's a map with the same units used. (Although it should be marked as kBq not KBq.)
(http://realitybasedworlddotorg.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/chernobyl_001.png) (http://realitybasedworlddotorg.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/chernobyl_001.png)
(click for larger)
Quote from: Ouxxey_games on Wed 30/03/2011 09:13:23
let's just grab pure plutonium with our bare hands, right?
Right, we will get super powers.
Provided we don't die.Though it possibly hasn't reached the level of the Chernobyl yet, one problem is the contamination of water source. That and the electric company and the government hid the details of the conditions (and refused helps from other places earlier on) had much responsibility.
Where the hell do you get these maps? I'd like to see an explanation to why one would expect this crap fall down in Finland.
Also, from a European perspective that first map looked really fucked up for a while :D
Which map are you referring Tuomas?
First map that I posted was created in response to the map below with the purpose to troll the Finnish internets (as the map below is for trolling the USA internets):
(http://nuclearfissionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/fake-fallout-map.jpg)
Many papers even printed this map, even though it is not created by Australian Radiation Services, like the logo suggests.
Second map I posted is 25 years from the past.
So you can stop eating your iodine pills like candy. ;)
Personally I think a fallout sequal in post apocolyptic Japan would be great! ;)
It's amazing how other countries have freaked out over this, even the media in the UK doesn't seem that worried.
Quote from: zabnat on Wed 30/03/2011 08:38:59
ps. didn't we already have a thread about Japan?
Yep! (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=43125.0) - but I never expect anyone to pay the blindest bit of attention to me :P
Wasn't that a blog advertisment? :P
Fixed the first post :=
Can anybody who speaks Japanese tell me whether it's pronounced fookashima or fuckashima?
Quote from: Mods on Wed 30/03/2011 16:21:32
Wasn't that a blog advertisment? :P
Fixed the first post :=
Nice touch cheers man... that should get me a couple more hits ;D
Quote from: Atelier on Wed 30/03/2011 16:30:05
Can anybody who speaks Japanese tell me whether it's pronounced fookashima or fuckashima?
It's exactly as it's written. Think of the short 'u' in 'pudding' rather than the long 'oo' in 'poo'.
In that case newsreaders are cowards.
Quote from: Atelier on Wed 30/03/2011 16:38:01
In that case newsreaders are cowards.
Wait, how do you say 'pudding'?
As for the Radiation, though, I'm yet to be convinced that we're all gonna die. The interesting thing about the graph in the OP is that you can already see how much the radiation has dispersed. I can't imagine those red blobs getting much bigger.
Quote from: Stupot on Wed 30/03/2011 16:47:52
As for the Radiation, though, I'm yet to be convinced that we're all gonna die. The interesting thing about the graph in the OP is that you can already see how much the radiation has dispersed. I can't imagine those red blobs getting much bigger.
More interesting thing about the map in the OP is that the red blob there would be somewhere on the green area in the Chernobyl map that I posted. We didn't die in 1986 so why would we die now?
Couple of more interesting figures for the radiation dosage (exposure) chart on the first post:
- Smoking 1.5 packs/day: 13-60 mSv/year
- Background radiation in parts of Iran, India and Europe: 50 mSv/year
http://xkcd.com/radiation/ (http://xkcd.com/radiation/)
Don't eat too many bananas!
Or sleep with too many people simultaneously.
Quote from: Atelier on Wed 30/03/2011 16:30:05
Can anybody who speaks Japanese tell me whether it's pronounced fookashima or fuckashima?
Here they say "Fukushima" pretty often (at least twice): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN4_OseM4lA
Quote from: Babar on Wed 30/03/2011 17:22:59
Or sleep with too many people simultaneously.
...or too many bananas...if you're into that stuff. :P
I still haven't met m0ds!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Quote from: Atelier on Wed 30/03/2011 16:30:05
Can anybody who speaks Japanese tell me whether it's pronounced fookashima or fuckashima?
Neither. It's:
fu (give a light who-fu sound on fu, not a hard F)
KU (koo, as in the name, COOper)
SHI-ma (shi as in "she" and ma as in "mama")
Emphasis is important, you should put emphasis on the uppercase letters by raising your pitch slightly for those and lowering it on the other sounds.
So it's fuKUSHIma.
Here (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20305-caesium-fallout-from-fukushima-rivals-chernobyl.html) is an article from a site that would seem trustworthy at the first sight. The only problem is, that none of the radiation levels mentioned in the article are not found in the source that author claims to be using. The source doesn't even have any readings using the same units that are mentioned in the article. ;D
This is pretty much the quality of all the news I have read about the incident. Today I saw a headline saying "Fukushimas water radiation level is 4385 times above the limit." Nowhere in that article are any real figures or units mentioned, or even if that 4385 times above the limit is dangerous. Which I believe is not, because the limits are really low.
Quote from: zabnat on Thu 31/03/2011 08:37:37
Here (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20305-caesium-fallout-from-fukushima-rivals-chernobyl.html) is an article from a site that would seem trustworthy at the first sight. The only problem is, that none of the radiation levels mentioned in the article are not found in the source that author claims to be using. The source doesn't even have any readings using the same units that are mentioned in the article. ;D
I believe the article is referring to the readings in this pdf:
http://www.mext.go.jp/component/english/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/31/1304097_0331.pdf (http://www.mext.go.jp/component/english/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/31/1304097_0331.pdf)
I cannot interpret them, but give it a go if you want.
We've had radiation in our rain here in the US, and milk in WA has now shown radiation as well. Very minor levels, or so they say. Comparable to levels from using a TV. I know sitting too close to the TV is supposed to be bad for your eyes, I never attempted to drink my TV....
Well that is the exact pdf(source) that I was referring to. In the pdf values are in Bq/m3 and Bq/kg. Maybe she had some fancy formula to convert cubic meters to square meters and kilograms to square meters...
Quote from: zabnat on Thu 31/03/2011 15:33:00
In the pdf values are in Bq/m3 and Bq/kg. Maybe she had some fancy formula to convert cubic meters to square meters and kilograms to square meters...
Oh, how I like it when journalists try to derive meaningful values on their own from the available statistics without knowing what they're doing...
Sadly, you can't really trust any 'official' channels on this as the Japan energy commission and president have obfuscated and minimized the severity of the situation since it began. This includes the EPA, who has actually shut off 8 of their coastal radiation detectors without giving any real comment in spite of radioactive iodine being detected in Southern California and in the milk in Washington (one of the first things to show radiation is milk).
I've been going by the detections from radiation network, an Arizona-based network that allows people from states (and other countries) to tie into their visual system to display current ambient radiation levels. It's also updated constantly so for Americans in particular I recommend it highly.
http://www.radiationnetwork.com/index.htm
All of my information and advice has come from physicist and nuclear expert Dr. Doug Rokke and british nuclear physicist Dr. Christopher Busby, who both agree that as long as the reactors remain open there remains a significant risk of dangerous radiation levels building up in the US and areas hit by the jet stream.
Bear in mind, geiger counters aren't going to detect plutonium or uranium and a single particle absorbed into your system will kill you; fortunately, both are comparatively heavy and do not carry well in the wind. The primary concern for people 1000 miles or more away is radioactive iodine, and since the reactors have continued to spew out radiation for two weeks, both Busby and Rokke recommend you take whatever measures you consider are appropriate considering they may not seal them for some time (buying some potassium iodide, staying indoors especially when it rains). Your best defense, other than to get out of the jet stream which isn't realistic for most people, is to stay indoors as often as possible, especially if radiation levels start climbing incrementally.
I've bought enough potassium iodide to provide for my family and friends in an emergency, so there's nothing wrong with preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=146&contentid=8100
Wow... just... wow...
This is either an example of some very, very dangerously stupid people making wild accusations, or a very poor attempt at an April Fool's joke.
Quote(Mar 27, 2011) Independent scientist Leuren Moret in an exclusive March 27, 2011 interview with Alfred Lambremont Webre has stated that the west coasts of the United States and Canada, Mexico, and Hawaii are being intentionally targeted by dangerous radiation from the March 11, 2011 tectonic warfare earthquake and nuclear meltdown events at Fukushima, Japan.
The west coasts of the United States and Canada, and Mexico, Ms. Moret indicated, are the major food producing areas for North America.
Radiation from the Japan quake/nuclear meltdown events at Fukushima is intentionally being steered into these areas in order to dose the land and the food with radiation.
The ultimate purpose of this nuclear war is to attack the health and genome of the North American the population is attacked with radiation, to depopulate North America, and to make future humans less healthy and less resistant to takeover by a global new world order.
There's also an hour-long video, which I had to stop wacthing after about the first 3 minutes...
It's a website dedicated to conspiracies - do you expect much more than bullshit? ;)
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 31/03/2011 20:43:08
Sadly, you can't really trust any 'official' channels on this as the Japan energy commission and president have obfuscated and minimized the severity of the situation since it began. This includes the EPA, who has actually shut off 8 of their coastal radiation detectors without giving any real comment in spite of radioactive iodine being detected in Southern California and in the milk in Washington (one of the first things to show radiation is milk).
True. It's extremely difficult to find neutral information as all parties seem to be coloring the information according their own agenda.
I found a site (http://park30.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html) with geiger meter readings from Tokyo. Mirror (http://mu.jklmnop.net/japan/)
So, Japan detonated a large (>100 megaton) thermonuclear device deep beneath the sea floor, to create an earthquake and tsunami. Then they use explosives to crack the reactor containments so that they would release radioactive material to air, hoping the winds would carry most of it to the North America. Sounds entirely plausible!
Albeit fairly undetectable levels, see here just how over the last month we've gone from no radiation to the entire globe covered in radiation: http://www.irsn.fr/FR/popup/Pages/irsn-meteo-france_30mars.aspx
Also, I read somewhere it only takes one particle of plutonium to kill you, woohoo! Though I believe there is little chance of that, and also that it doesn't carry too well in winds.
ProgZ what are you talking about?
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 31/03/2011 20:43:08
Bear in mind, geiger counters aren't going to detect plutonium or uranium
Huh?
Technically geiger-muller tubes do not detect elements at all. They detect ionising radiation. But I assume you are implying that they don't detect the kind of radiation given off by plutonium or uranium. Why? Both are radioactive sources and, as such, their decay can be detected with geiger counters.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 31/03/2011 20:43:08
and a single particle absorbed into your system will kill you;
Really? A single particle of an element can kill me?
Although you may define 'particle' however you like there is naturally occuring uranium in your food, your drinking water and pretty much everything else. It is a pretty abudant element (more so than tin for instance)
Plutonium is not as abundant as uranium but there are still traces of plutonium in pretty much human being on earth.
So saying that a single particle of uranium or plutonium WILL KILL US ALL! is pretty absurd.
EDIT: I think you are probably referring to this:
Quote
The Los Angeles Times [2] says that one ten-thousandth of a gram (0.1 milligram) inhaled can cause cancer. This is correct: we have already estimated that 0.08 milligrams inhaled will have 100% probability of causing a fatal cancer.
However I offer this rebuttal:
Quote
To inhale 0.1 milligram of plutonium, however, a person would have to inhale more than seven hundred thousand particles. (A single 0.1-milligram particle would have a diameter of over 260 micrometers, about 90 times too big to be readily inhaled.) Although a single respirable particle is unlikely to harm an individual,[13] there is still cause for concern if plutonium were to be dispersed in the atmosphere.
On a related note, it seems the EU quietly passed a new regulation last weekend that allows for a sharp increase of the maximum radiation level in Japanese food imported to Europe. The values differ across the different food categories, but the biggest increase was in the fish oils and spices where the limit was raised from 600 Becquerels (whatever those might be) to 12500 Bq.
Read more at http://bit.ly/fd6NWk (sorry for linking through Google Translate, but the news is only just breaking and most sources are in German).
Geiger counters only detect gamma particles- particles that emit gamma rays, like cesium and iodine. Plutonium and uranium emit massive amounts of alpha and beta rays which are not detectable by Geiger counters and insignificant, background radiation levels of gamma rays. However, if you begin detecting massive amounts of iodine or cesium (a spike on the geiger counter makes this a strong likelihood) chances are pretty good plutonium and/or uranium has made it to where you are due to the sheer
concentration of radiation.
Now, on to the plutonium/uranium amounts that are lethal:
QuoteSo saying that a single particle of uranium or plutonium WILL KILL US ALL! is pretty absurd.
Nice way to take the reasonable explanation I gave and put the old media troll spin on it to make it look like a big conspiracy.
I never said a single particle will kill
everyone; I said a single particle
absorbed into your system (primarily through inhalation, as ingestion is a less effective means for radiation to reach your blood stream, though it is entirely possible) is enough to kill you as research has shown that the smaller the particle the more easily it can be absorbed by your body. As little as a microgram inhaled can result in radiation sickness and death, though like anything else the science isn't perfect as most research has been conducted on rats or exposed plant workers. Even less than a microgram can amplify your risk of cancer by TEN TIMES, so yes, a single particle of plutonium or uranium-238 will likely kill you. I've added likely as you have this tendency to be incredibly anal retentive and desperate to pick apart my posts.
Everything I have written here is supported and derived from repeated statements by nuclear chemists and physicists, so go off and argue with Busby, Rokke, et al about it on their message boards.
Based on your previous post, I would like to ask about this.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 31/03/2011 20:43:08
All of my information and advice has come from physicist and nuclear expert Dr. Doug Rokke and british nuclear physicist Dr. Christopher Busby, who both agree that as long as the reactors remain open there remains a significant risk of dangerous radiation levels building up in the US and areas hit by the jet stream.
Can you clarify what is meant by reactors being open? I haven't stumbled upon any information about this, so I would like to know more about this.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 01/04/2011 22:50:09
Geiger counters only detect gamma particles- particles that emit gamma rays, like cesium and iodine.
No, not true. In fact geiger counters are *less* effective at detecting high energy gamma rays since they just pass through it without an interaction. Geiger counters are better at detecting beta particles and some tubes can detect alpha emissions (if close enough since alpha particles will only get a few inches through air).
QuotePlutonium and uranium emit massive amounts of alpha and beta rays which are not detectable by Geiger counters and insignificant, background radiation levels of gamma rays.
Alpha and beta radiation are emitted as particles not rays. (Alpha being a Helium 4 nucleus and beta being a high velocity electron). Gamma radiation is emitted as rays.
Quote
I never said a single particle will kill everyone; I said a single particle absorbed into your system (primarily through inhalation, as ingestion is a less effective means for radiation to reach your blood stream, though it is entirely possible) is enough to kill you as research has shown that the smaller the particle the more easily it can be absorbed by your body. As little as a microgram inhaled can result in radiation sickness and death, though like anything else the science isn't perfect as most research has been conducted on rats or exposed plant workers. Even less than a microgram can amplify your risk of cancer by TEN TIMES, so yes, a single particle of plutonium or uranium-238 will likely kill you. I've added likely as you have this tendency to be incredibly anal retentive and desperate to pick apart my posts.
Everything I have written here is supported and derived from repeated statements by nuclear chemists and physicists, so go off and argue with Busby, Rokke, et al about it on their message boards.
Fair enough. Although as I said it's unlikely that a person could inhale a 'single particle' large enough to kill them since they just dont stay airbourne at that size.
Although I should point out that no deaths have been attributed to the inhalation of plutonium despite several examples of exposure.
source: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf15.html
Of course I'm not saying the plutonium is all sweetness and light but perspective and alternative viewpoints are always useful to those who read threads like this.
What's going on? I'm scared!
Quote from: Dualnames on Sat 02/04/2011 00:08:34
What's going on? I'm scared!
It's nothing, Dual...it's just the end of the world. Go back to sleep.
So, I'm still alive anyway. Don't know about the rest of the world, but it's business as usual here in the Tokyo/Saitama area. Aside from the odd tongue-in-cheek remark "You've been sniffling all afternoon - allergies getting to you?" "Probably radiation", that sort of thing, it's being widely ignored. Now that the power levels are more stable, though companies by and large are attempting to conserve energy (Most escalators are off, fewer lights are turned on in stores and other major buildings, etc.), it's as though not much has changed at all.
We still get tremors somewhat regularly. A seven-something last night, but you just become kind of desensitized to it. I was honestly more concerned about the fight with a High Dragon I was in the middle of in Dragon Age II. Once I'd confirmed that nothing else breakable was in a position to fly off a shelf, I just sat right back down and rode it out.
Even in the less-affected metropolitan areas, water is still something of a hot item. Most convenience stores have a "One bottle per customer per day" policy, as many people are still a bit leery about drinking tap water, with some reports of traces of radioactive iodine found in the water system. Still, I shower pretty much daily, brush my teeth with it, even drink some, though my girlfriend has forbade me from it by and large. Raining today, which I walked through mostly without an umbrella on my way home from work (On a Saturday, FML - working off the days that I took off after the "event".).
But despite the fact that a huge natural disaster happened, and a lot of people died, and there have been some shitty consequences, life goes on as it tends to.
And Ouxxey - It's foo-koo-SHEE-ma. And the F is very light - almost an H sound: don't bite your lip to make the F, just blow through your lips. But I won't get into a Japanese lesson in this particular thread.