Starting off -- general suggestions?

[frission]

This is only a "technical question" in the broadest sense, but this seemed like the best place to put it.

I'm thinking about beginning an AGS project (SCIV sort of interface, nothing too technically ambitious). I know there are many tutorials and FAQs (and I have looked at a few of them, but not all of them), but I was wondering if there was a good source for sort of "general suggestions" as to beginning with AGS. What common mistakes do new people make which keeps their projects from getting off the ground? What's the best way to start off without getting burned out? What are common pit-falls? What's the secret to success?

Any thoughts anyone had, and any links they wanted to share, would be much appreciated as I think through this project and the time commitment it will involve. The sorts of questions I have are things like, "Should I bother spending a lot of time on details from the beginning, or should I put very bare-bones sprites and rooms together and then try to add detail later once the project has gotten some of its own momentum? Should I do all the room backgrounds first and then put sprites in them, or should I go about it room-by-room? Should I work on making a very polished and very short demo so that I can more quickly get feedback on the overall project?" and things like that. Obviously much of this will depend on my own work habits and preferences, but I thought some of those with a lot of experience at this might be able to share some wisdom.

I'm worried that if I start worrying about details too early on, I'll get frustrated and never finish it, but I'm also worried that it might be hard to add details later if I have neglected it too much to begin with. And I'm also worried (boy, I worry a lot) that if I make it too bare-boned from the beginning that I'll end up spending a lot of time on something unimpressive and become similarly uninspired with the project.

One general graphics question I have is if there is any common way to make the Monkey Island II-style VGA graphics. They have a very specific and stylized look to them and I haven't spent a lot of time with that particular type of computer graphics but I was curious if there was any general technique for getting that "look."

Another general question I have is how long I should expect to put into development for this. I'm thinking of something in the classic SCIV sort of approach, with a Trilby's Notes level of graphics (relatively simple and straightforward), something that would just about fit into the "long game" category but not be too long. Assuming I am not working at this full time or anything (it'll be a hobby if anything), how long should I expect this to take? A year? Longer? (Note that while I have never used AGS before, I am very familiar with similar component technologies: graphics editing/creating, scripting in general, etc., so I'm not re-inventing the wheel entirely on top of everything else.)

If this is an exceptionally common sort of thread, I very much apologize, but I didn't quite see anything in the FAQ that really addressed it very well. Thank you.

[Ghost]

Well, several forum members talk about their own "behind the scenes" experiences on their own sites, so that might be a good place to start. You can see a list of those pages here
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/memberwebs.php

In addition to that, check the Games In Progress section of the forums, and you may find some nice info over at
http://www.adventuregames.com
There, in the Underground section, two AGS members keep written logs about their games.

Hope that gets you started. Oh, I forgot to mention that my own site offers some behind the scenes stuff, too  Never miss a chance to plug!


As for the amount of time to put in a project, that simple- it depends. If you're new to adventure game design and need to get comfortable with AGS and scripting, it will take a while. If you're already comfortable with creating graphics and such, that helps, if not, that's also a factor. I think it's best to start small and try out some stuff; that way you can learn the basics.

[frission]

Thanks for the response!

I gotta say... the browse through members' pages depressed me! 90% of the links I clicked on were dead (I went through and clicked randomly, since I don't know any of the nams), of those which are not about 90% of those sites seemed abandoned and aborted game projects. If there are any in particular you found useful and want to single out, that might be more helpful and less demoralizing...

I've looked at a lot of the "games in progress" posts and have found them interesting and useful.

I understand, of course, that anything like AGS is going to have a very high failure rate of completion. It is very easy to have an idea for a new game, but the nuts and bolts of it are much harder and require quite a time investment. So far I've spent about three days (only an hour or two per day, mind you) just trying to get the basic walking animations for my protagonists working so that I can start playing with them inside the game engine itself (and I'm not even really doing it totally from scratch -- I'm using previously-created designs that I liked as templates which I modify heavily to meet my needs). Lord knows how long it will take to do some sort of background -- I am endlessly impressed that people manage to come up with some really impressive settings in these games!

[ciborium]

First guideline for newbies:  Make a very small game first.
You might think about making something for MAGS.  If you look at some of the entries (although not this last one) the games have almost no story, MS paint artwork, and no music or sound.

Second guideline: Put your grand story on hold until you've completed at least one game.
If you can't complete storyless find key, open door games, then you won't finish the ambitious project.

Third guideline: AGSers like to see original artwork.  That isn't to say that you CAN'T borrow artwork.  It just seems to get frowned upon around.  Most folks here would rather see lop-sided stick figures than ripped sprites.

Fourth guideline:  The most important one: Read the manual, the BFAQ, and all the sticky threads before posting.  Especially in the tech forums and the Games in Production thread.   

Now these aren't rules, they are just guidelines (except #4, of course!)  Have fun!



Now, I guess I need to start following these guidelines and release a game...

[Ghost]

If there are any in particular you found useful and want to single out, that might be more helpful and less demoralizing...

From the top of my mind, I've always liked to check VinceTwelve's site. His articles are a good read and worth checking out. BigBrother's site has an own "we help designers" forum, worth a visit. That's where I go 

Hope it's okay to mention the names, if anyone objects, kindly remove this post!

[frission]

Ghost, Rayberg â€" awesome replies. Those sites you mentioned Ghost were VERY interesting and VERY helpful. Rayberg, your tips were excellent. All together after thinking about it some more I think I realize much better what I want to do and the specific hurdles that lie in waiting for me. (I'm also dubious now that AGS qua AGS is going to by itself really do what I want it to, but that's another story.)

Any further sites and thoughts are of course welcome!

[Ashen]

Although Ghost and Rayberg have given you some good answers, these sort of general question don't realy be long in Beginners Tech (which it looks like you kind of knew). I can't add much to what's been said, but I'll move this to General Discussion where more people who've able to help might see it.

One thing I will say, is not to worry so much. Everyone's approach oto makig a game is different, and the best way to find yours is just to start. If you feel inspired to make detailed graphics for one part of your game, do them. 'Bare bones' the rest until they inspire you. There's a tutorial thread in the Critics Lounge that might be of use, or look through some of the old threads there. Other's work in progress backgrounds and sprites might help you. And finally, it'll take as long as it takes - some people have worked on a game for years and not finished, others have produced high quality games in a matter of weeks. (Probably some people have done both.)
EDIT: This recent thread, 'Biting off more than you can chew', might help as well. It basically reiterates Rayberg's first and second points.

[RickJ]

I'm also dubious now that AGS qua AGS is going to by itself really do what I want it to

I'm puzzled by this statement as AGS is a pretty versatile programming platform and you have previously stated that the gui you have in mind is not technically ambitious and that you want to reproduce a retro graphics look.   I am curious about your concerns. 

To answer you initial question I would suggest that you first create an experimental game where you can try out different things, create modules, etc.  This would just be a work area and not a published game. 

Next create your actual game area.  Add rooms as the background art is completed.  Setup the walkable areas, regions, etc  so that the PC can walk from room to room.   Add the interactive parts of the game world so that the PC can explore. Add the game logic, plot, puzzles, dialog, NPCs, etc last.

[Sparky]

First guideline for newbies:  Make a very small game first.

I second that! Just make a two-room unambitous project with very low quality standards for the sake of learning how to work.

"Should I bother spending a lot of time on details from the beginning, or should I put very bare-bones sprites and rooms together and then try to add detail later once the project has gotten some of its own momentum?

Should I work on making a very polished and very short demo so that I can more quickly get feedback on the overall project?

I'd very strongly recommend adding no details at all until the whole game is playable. Sketch out the game with no backgrounds and no character art (especially not animation). It goes really fast, and it's a lot of fun. That way you can quickly find out what elements of your game are fun and what isn't, and you can rearrange everything to your liking before investing hundreds of hours in final assets. The more polish you invest in the first draft, the less flexible it will be. It's also exponentially slower to create new content at a finished level, and at the start of a project it's important to keep the work moving quickly toward clear goals and not get discouraged.

It can be disheartening looking at a prototype with no graphics, so while you are working create some neat concept art that reflects the atmosphere and 'spirit' of the game. Don't actually make any in-game art yet, just draw pictures of the characters in the game world. Making concept art + a prototype will go very quickly compared to actually making the game.

As for a demo, I think any polished demo would need to come fairly late in a project, after a lot of character animation, custom feature scripting, and planning has happened. I'm not sure that using a polished demo as a way of quickly generating ideas or feedback is an efficient. I'd advise making a graphics-free prototype + concept art instead.