Kill Bill

[Esseb]

Harvey W made Miramax cut it in half? I thought he mentioned it out loud near the end of shooting, QT thought it was a good idea and went and made a raw edit of what would be the first part. After it was finished it was decided at the last moment to go with two parts.

Unless I'm misinformed. I'll see if I can dig up the interview.

[Las Naranjas]

Slaughterhouse 5, as a pioneer in non linearity, manages to keep suspense.


But that's because it probably had more than style going for it :p

[MrColossal]

Because you're looking at it as two sepearte movies, when it's supposed to be one whole movie.

...

If Kill Bill was shown in full, the O-ren Ishii fight flashback would probably be in the same place as CTHD's flashback in terms of narrative structure.

ARRGH!!! but it wasn't and it isn't!! so how am i supposed to look at this movie as anything but a movie?

and since the second movie isn't out yet how can anyone say the first movie was good since you're supposed to look at it as a whole? people should say "the first 2 hours was good but i haven't seen the last 2 hours yet, i have to wait till march..."

bah whatever, i don't care anymore, i'm glad people like the movie and i would love to love the movie because as i said to DG in private. i don't like not liking movies i paid or that have promise. my girl loved it and many people i know and who's opinions i trust love it [even though grundislav likes austin powers, he loves donnie darko so it's ok] i'm not trying to tear down this movie cause i hate it on some awkward level

[even wolf]

true, the two part deal isnt a marketing strategy so much as it is the studio laying it down on QT.  In their defense, the guy did write one monster of a script however, and I doubt he settles for much as far as cutting down.

Eric, I misphrased myself - by seeing the first part you pretty much ARE committing to seeing the second.   What I'm saying is that unlike Matrix 2 fans, I won't tell you your argument doesn't have any credibility until the series is over.  I'm saying you have no credibility because the style man, the style!!!11!1!!!

[MrColossal]

the style being a non sequential movie shown in chapters stretching over two movies?

or the style being an homage to 70's kung fu movies?

or the black and blue fight scene?

[DGMacphee]

Esseb: I got the impression that it was the Miramax exec's decision to cut it, going on what I read in IMDB -- then again, I could be wrong.

Eric: Don't worry, we're not going to burninate you for thinking "Meh... No big deal..." -- I think we're trying to discuss narrative and style in general.

Evenwolf: Aye, I agree, I don't think it was a marketing strategy -- I think it's more that the Miramax bosses thought audiences couldn't handle a four hour movie.

Eric no.2 (on style): Maybe it's more so the combination of those things and doing it successfully.

Kinda like thinking: Wow, a lot of precise work went into little ball of energy.

And I think that's why I dig it -- It manages to successfully combine several different styles without letting the pace drop -- And I can't help but look at the scene and think "Wow! I sure am going to remember THAT!"

[MrColossal]

i still don't understand how the style takes away my cred' [as we say on the streets] when it's my opinion

[even wolf]

Oh, you thought Kill Bill was simply an homage to kung fu movies?

There's homages in there to kung fu (Street Fighter, BlackBelt Jones etc), sure. But mostly we have exploitation, spaghetti westerns, GoodFellas, and your good old revenge movies such as  "I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE!!"    (which I saw last night with Joe Bob Briggs of MonsterVision fame live in attendence!)  And QT does overdo homages to the point that you question if he does anything but arrange pre-existing anecdotes.
But I'd say alot of other directors do that as well, just not as obviously or consciously.  And I'd say QT is doing the original films justice by creating interest and press.   Typically every year Quinton comes to Austing and shows his favorite movies, and he goes on and on about why theyre so goddamn awesome. He's there in the theatre- you can see his passion. You can see his desire to generate similar scenes is genuine, or pure nostalgia.  I imagine in that regard, if QT joined AGS he would be a newbie who immediately starts recruiting for a Monkey Island fan game.  It might be naive and unjust but God Bless him!

[DGMacphee]

Eric, I didn't say your arguement has no cred.

I'm only trying to explain why I liked and reasons why some people might find it a bit "meh" (like the split in half thing).

Even: LOL -- If QT came to AGS, I'd certainly like to see his MI fangame!

"What does Herman Toothrott look like??? Does he look like a BITCH!!!"

[MrColossal]

no i didn't think it was just an homage, but like i said, i don't think it's the best movie he's ever done and i don't think it's the second coming of christ movie wise, i think it's a movie that was entertaining in some points but fell flat for me

[DGMacphee]

What?!?! Oh now you're argument lack credibility!!!1~

Of course it's the best movie ever!!!

It IS the 2nd coming of Christ!!!

I give it 5000000/10 stars!!!

Your just jelous cause QT is making cool movies and your not!!!!

SO THERE!!!

-DG

p.s. QT ROOLZ!!

[remixor]

But the Harvey W is a dick for making Miramax cut Tarantino's baby in half.

Let's just call him Solomon.

Har har har, i r teh funy.

[Barcik]

There can be another reason the fight with the Crazy 88 is after the one with Vivica. That fight scene is obviousy the big scene of this movie, and big scenes need to come in the end.

[MrColossal]

yea but that doesn't matter at all barcik one could just remove the HUGE fight scene and add in the fight scene between Vivica Fox and Uma Thurman at the football stadium at the end, there big fight scene

it's a big fight scene cause it's at the end and i doubt he made the movie nonlinear cause he wanted to have a large fight scene at the end of the movie

[Grundislav]

Hey now, what's all this talking about Grundislav behind his back?  

I only saw Kill Bill once, I enjoyed it, but I didn't go around touting it as the best thing since sliced bread.

And don't judge me based on the movies I like!  

[MrColossal]

ah shut up ya filthy pirate!

and i don't judge you on the movies you like but on how well you can dance...

so i think you know where we stand

[even wolf]

Well geeze eric,  I think there are some REAL issues involving the order of scenes that may seem subtle, but to QT as a writer- must be crucial.

The Vivica Fox fight scene is a pivotal point in character development for the bride.  We see the sense of honor she has, only attacking when fair to do so. We also see that Vivica's character is not as honorable and therefore the stadium tangent does not take place. We begin to see that these people deserve to die.

The epic scene at the House of Blue Leaves was a great, thought out scene.  One camera shot was mind boggling - it seems as if QT put a steady cam operator on a crane to go over the entire set, and then had him jump off to go through a door frame and continue on ground.

The characters were all pretty cool, including "Charlie Brown" and the  last 88 whose life she spares.  I don't think "BAM!, switch this scene with a stadium showdown and there's a good movie" is plausible. I don't think a filmmaker has to have as revolutionary an idea as Memento to use a nonlinear structure.  It's simply that QT chose to develop the characters and reveal information in a particular format rather than make a ton of compromises- which ultimately would have deluded the original concept QT had.   But that's just my argument, and I totally respect yours and woud love to hear more if you're not already sick of talking about it.

[DGMacphee]

Now that I think about it, I'm sure QT is going somewhere with the whole Oren flashback, and here why I think so:

Why didn't he just make Vivica Fox first on the list, then follow it with Oren-Ishii?

Why did he make Oren-Ishii first and choose to go into flashback?

Surely, there must be a reason for such a decision.

I mean, it's looks very easy to switch the film to a conventional narrative -- So, why the flashback?

Maybe we'll find out in Vol 2?

[even wolf]

Haha, I was going to mention the order of the names on the list DG- but that would have been a weak part of my argument.  I do have beliefs on why the names are on the list a certain way, however, along with the fact that the scenes are shown out of order.

For one-  we know certain characters are probably easier to kill then others.  She could have made the list for other practical reasons such as geography - which at first doesn't make sense considering she went to Japan first- but then it does make sense because you realize she went to Japan first for the sword, and then the kill.  I can imagine to some the scene about the sword was really dumb- but I really liked how much weight the sword carries.  I get sick of movies where weapons are used casually - come out of nowhere and carry no significance other than where the bullet hits (Matrix for example).

I think the linear structure wouldn't have worked if we first saw the Bride wake up, leave the hospital, and then go to japan, then kill oren, then travel back for Vivica.  Not because the order isn't plausible- but because QT would have had to go absurdly out of his way to put character development in places that aren't natural.

[DGMacphee]

I think the linear structure wouldn't have worked if we first saw the Bride wake up, leave the hospital, and then go to japan, then kill oren, then travel back for Vivica. Not because the order isn't plausible- but because QT would have had to go absurdly out of his way to put character development in places that aren't natural.

Yeah, but a linear structure would have worked if Vivica was the first name on her list.

However, I also think the names are ordered the way they are for specific purpose -- Only time will tell.