Kramer is a racist nutbag!

[LimpingFish]

The Rev JJ was protesting outside the Academy Awards ceremony, I can't recall which year. He was attending them at the time, and during a TV interview he said "Too few black actors get nominated." Now there are two ways you can take this:

"Black actors need to act better!" or "Black actors are being discriminated against."

I may be wrong, but I'll go with the latter.

Feeling threatened has nothing to do with my point, which is the dilution of of a serious problem by playing the racism card at every opportunity.

Saying Hollywood, in this case, is racist without backing up his claims accomplishes nothing but the apathy I describe.

EDIT: Yes, I know racism is a nebulous concept, and obtaining "proof" isn't that straight forward, but this kind of knee-jerk offensive, such as the above, doesn't solve anything.

[skyfire2]

That's not an important question at all. You're just not watching all the other comedians who make jokes about everyone.

It was a rhetorical question. The point is that racism has been used by the blacks as a weapon forever and people shouldn't get all pissy every time someone makes a racist statment.

[Domino]

Would this be any different if it were a black comic throwing insults at 2 white hecklers? Calling them honkeys, crackers, whiteys...etc.

That would be considered comedy. In this case, it is racism. I am not a racist, but i just don't understand why people are getting so outraged. He made a mistake, he apologized for his actions. I forgive him. I mean hell, that's Kramer.

Forgive and forget. Sometimes people say things they don't actually mean. I really think he was trying to be funny, but not in a good way.

edit: My grandmother, may god rest her soul, always told me to count to 10 before saying anything you might regret when you are angry. Maybe Michael should have done the same. But i have learned to do this. Because once you burn a bridge, there is no going back.

[evenwolf]

Domino, watch the response to the hecklers again and tell me where the lightheartedness, or even the sarcasm is.Ã,  Ã, Its not there.Ã,  If anything, he's channelling in an alter ego.Ã,  Ã, A racist one.Ã,  Ã, 

Did you watch the tape?Ã,  He leaves the stage in anger as the audience is evacuating.Ã,  Ã,  No humor, no comedy.Ã,  Ã, Just a man with no tact.Ã,  Ã, I forgive him to but you're statement about comedy is misguided.Ã,  Ã, the context of his words are in anger, not jest.

The audience didn't have any way to interpret that incident as entertainment.  Likewise a man yelling "death to whitey!" with hate in his eyes would have gotten a similar response.

[Darth Mandarb]

Jesse Jackson's stint outside the Oscars was a frickin' joke ... If you scoop up 100 actors out of hollywood chances are 10 of the 100 will be black.

It's not a matter of discrimination.  It's a matter of odds and numbers.

And what happens the next year?  Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Halle Berry are nominated and Sydney Portier gets the life-time acheivement award.  I found it insulting.  Not that they were nominated/won but because it felt like (to me) that the Oscar committee was grabbing any role by black people just to avoid being called racist again.

I'd much rather be nominated for my performance, and not because of the color of my skin and some unfounded need to be politically correct.

Will Smith was awesome in Ali and Denzel was great in Training Day, however his performance wasn't better than Russell Crowe's in A Beautiful Mind.  But Russell could still go home and polish his Oscar from Gladiator so I was happy to see Denzel win the award (I'm a huge fan of his).  I won't comment on Halle Berry 'cause I dispise her.

A stunt like that isn't part of the solution.  Like Bryant Gumbal's ignorant comment that he wasn't watching the last winter Olympics because there weren't enough black athletes.  I can't recall hearing any white people complaining that the summer olympics are 90% black though...  But it's okay though ... cause Slavery.

Again, if a poor black person screams "racism" like the boy who cried wolf - that is further submitting to defeat.   So I don't feel at all threatened or bothered by that.   That person has made a poor personal choice.

I don't disagree with this.  You're absolutely right.  However I've witnessed it from prominant people who aren't poor.  Chris Rock comes to mind.

But who else besides the poor and Jesse Jackson are really threatening anybody?  If you are lazy, and you make a concious decision to grab at any excuse you can- say racism,  you certainly aren't putting yourself in a position of power.  You are submitting further to defeat.

On a personal level the person shouting "racism" is submitting to further defeat yes.  However, the white people that then (in fear of being called racist again) jumps and leaps to accomodate the ignorant piece of trash that just shouted becomes the problem.

For me it's not a matter of feeling threatened.  I don't feel threatened at all.  It's been my experience that the public perception of an event like this would steer towards the white person being racist not the black person that shouted racism.

Would this be any different if it were a black comic throwing insults at 2 white hecklers? Calling them honkeys, crackers, whiteys...etc.

This is exactly my point.  If, as evenwolf said, it was done with the same anger that Kramer was using.

It's not okay what he did.  But a black comedian doing the same thing is ALSO not okay.  But it's tolerated.  If it's tolerable by one race, it should be tolerable by all.  That is, to me, equal rights.  I don't care that blacks used to be slaves.

And the excuse that (can't remember who said it) 150 years isn't that long ago doesn't hold water with me.  I don't agree with that.  10 years is enough time.  There isn't a black person alive today that remembers slavery.  Hell ... I doubt there's a black person alive today that ever knew anybody that remembered slavery.

Again ... I'm not supporting any kind of discrimination.  I'm just pointing out what I percieve to be hypocritical double standards.  I didn't own slaves, I don't agree with slavery, were I alive 150 years ago I wouldn't have agreed with it then either.

[Domino]

I have watched the video many times. I just feel bad for the guy for making a huge mistake. I don't want to stand up for him, but i wouldn't want to be in his shoes either.

Just my 2 cents, that's all.

[m0ds]

Yufster;

A friend of mine in college used to greet me with "hey nigga'!". Neither of us were white, neither of us were racist. I think people should stop getting so fucking distressed over a little word.

.....

Neither of us were white

..............

Are you black now?

[monkey0506]

"Neither of us were white"

You just missed the emphasis.

[Puddleglum]

...

[earlwood]

In the video, it seems as though, on the surface he appears to have this racist explosion, but more probable was, Michael Richards wanted to milk a particular reaction from the audience.  I mean, he's a performer, that's what he should be doing.  Obviously, it just didn't pan out the way he would've hoped.

[monkey0506]

Just a thought on Puddleglum's statements. He referred to "reverse racism," a term which I've heard before, but usually used in a non-sensical manner. Racism is discrimination against someone because of his/her race. Reverse racism therefore would be the opposite of that, not discriminating against someone because of their race.

But that's not usually the context I hear the phrase used in. Usually when I hear people say "reverse racism" they really mean "racism against a white person." It's important to distinguish between these two totally different phrases so they don't become understood as synonymous, which they are not.

Reverse racism could of course be taken to the extreme of someone going out of his/her way in order to NOT discriminate against someone; i.e., giving minorities preference over majorities so as to ensure that they are absolutely 100% not discriminating. Of course that would lead to racism against majorities which is where the idea that reverse racism is the same as racism against majorites (i.e., white people); but again, it's not the same thing. In fact, taken completely literally at face value of the meaning of the phrase, someone would need to try to treat absolutely every race completely equally in order to prevent the idea of preference of one race over another. Clearly that's not really possible, or at the very least, not very practical.

I've heard another phrase coined before, something of a personal motto. "If it is to be, it is up to me." This phrase holds a lot of truth in it. Aside from trying to prevent racism, the best way to fight it is to try ourselves to treat everyone as equally as we can. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's possible to change someone's point-of-view.....

Code: ags

int i = 0;
while (i < Game.CharacterCount) {
  character[i].PointOfView = eEqualRightsPOV;
  i++;
  }

Hehe...if only.

[Helm]

Yeah you can see him sorta switching direction, trying to reel it in by the 'there's still those words, there's still those words'. Because now it's not him calling people niggers, it's him shocking people to give them a lesson in cultural semiotics and linguistics.

How I see things: people are probably racist on a biological level. Man wants himself and his tribe to survive, prevail above others, life feeds on life, so on. We're not only animals anymore though, we've created this extraordinarily complex shell that we call civilization. Now most of all for utilitarian reasons, racism doesn't work. In action, people of different races while different aren't inherently worse or better than one another, and on a pragmatist level it befits society to not have distinction on race. However, most people are brought up with a surpressed racist sentiment. This might be fed less or more, by parents and peers. Let's say it's not fed. For example, in my case it really really wasn't fed (Dad's hardline Marxist) at all. I am the result of 400 years of racial intermixing (Turkish bondage, baby) it would be extremely hilarious to go on about Greek Power. So on the surface I am very much not a racist. However if let's say I was pushed to the breaking point by an Albanian (we don't have many black people here, I'm just using a race in similar situation in greece as the blacks where once in the US) I think I can see myself going "that fucking Albanian (well I don't know any derogatory terms for Albanian, but I'd say it like it was derogatory), go back to your country, asshole!". I'd feel awful about it later on and everything. But the racist gene is there and people will never be completely accepting of difference, nor will it become transparent until we're all the same color.

Which brings me to my point: everybody fuck everybody else. Let's get to it.

[Vince Twelve]

I already started!

[Andail]

is as hypocritical as it is narrowminded.Ã,  Nice way to legitimize reverse racism, Andail!

Hm, I don't legitimize "reverse" racism (and please tell me what's reversed about it, isn't it racism regardless of direction?). I'm saying that I'm a bit tired of people who don't understand the difference in gravity when you kick "down" and when you kick "up".
The average white, western male don't suffer particularly from his race, origin or gender, and must simply accept that he can't run very big cases on racism etc, whereas when you attack underprivileged groups or minorities it's simply more serious, end of story.

Edit:
I'm not often called narrow-minded, so allow me to express a certain amount of indignation.
As for my mindedness, be it narrow or not, I have tried to broaden it all my life. I've been to arabic nations and been exposed to their hostility against "westerners". My girlfriend is from an islamic country and I've got pretty good insight in her culture.
The boxing club I'm a member of is in the middle of my poorly integrated suburb, and I'm the only "pure" swedish (aka white) person there, with one or two exceptions. Do you think the middle-east/african/whatever kids look at me and my western heritage with respect and awe? Not really.
But do I choose to start whining about it? Do I suddenly think that "nigger" is not as bad as "whitey" or whatever?

[voh]

Being Jewish, I've suffered through a fair share of discrimination by the hands of some of the Morroccans living in my country. Do I scream murder every time I'm called a derogatory term?

Me and my Jew friends call each other filthy jews (because we are), and our non-Jew friends do that too. If a Morroccan by some weird means knows I'm Jewish (past couple of times it was due to them overhearing me and friends talking, and from time to time our heritage or the subject of Israel come up) and calls me a filthy Jew, I'll ignore it and walk on.

When that brick almost hit my head, though, I became scared. When I got into an argument with 2 Morroccan guys, and half an hour later there were 15 more of them, waiting for me to come out of the place I was at at that time, I was scared. When Theo van Gogh was murdered by a fanatical Muslim, throat slit, knife in the chest with a note attached, I was angry.

Now, I'm angry. Life'd be a lot easier if we weren't so damn sensitive and would be able to rationalize things somewhat easier.

Concerning this movie: Kramer went WAY too far. You do NOT call people that word if all they're doing is heckling you. You can bitch and moan, but the point of heckling a heckler is being the better man, and showing the audience the heckler is a sad loser. This just makes Kramer himself look like a bigot and a loser.

Also, the hypocrisy of the word 'nigga'. Some of you say 'nigga' and 'nigger' are different words due to context. True, true. That's why "African Americans" call each other one, instead of the other. They generally consider the -er variant to be the white man's version, and the -a to be theirs. Sure.

But this reminds me of a situation over in America a while back. A young black school kid said "shut up, nigga" to his teacher (who was white), who responded with "go to the principal's office, nigga" (italics for emphasis, as seems appropriate after having heard the teacher repeat the way he said it in a newsclip). That teacher was suspended (don't know exactly whether he got fired, but he definitely got suspended).

And that's just wrong.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

The average white, western male don't suffer particularly from his race, origin or gender, and must simply accept that he can't run very big cases on racism etc, whereas when you attack underprivileged groups or minorities it's simply more serious, end of story.

I'm asking you to qualify this statement, Andail.  I'm sorry if I offended you, but your statements do not convince me that you have a broad world view.  Why is it more serious for a white man to insult a black man than a black man to insult a white man?  Just because the history of bad things happening to them is more recent in your mind does not make it more relevant.  I heartily recommend you check out a few books like 'A Historical Guide to World Slavery' that go in depth about the slave trade using whatever means (people) at their disposal, be they white, black, brown, or green (and this carried on even at the height of the African Plunder)!  The term 'reverse racism' is one of those buzzwords to describe what you are doing: legitimizing black racism because they are 'owed' something for having been slaves.  Every race has seen slavery, and none more than the Jewish people, and yet (I will say it again) why do they choose to live life on equal terms without clinging to past wrongs?

[voh]

Because we've got more than enough contemporary wrongs? 

[Helm]

why do they choose to live life on equal terms without clinging to past wrongs?

Are you serious? Especially the Jewish people act - and usually have their way - as if they have a get out of jail free card with no expiration date after the holocaust.

[MrColossal]

But this reminds me of a situation over in America a while back. A young black school kid said "shut up, nigga" to his teacher (who was white), who responded with "go to the principal's office, nigga" (italics for emphasis, as seems appropriate after having heard the teacher repeat the way he said it in a newsclip). That teacher was suspended (don't know exactly whether he got fired, but he definitely got suspended).

And that's just wrong.

I wouldn't say that's wrong. If a kid swears at a teacher is it ok for the teacher to swear back? If a kid hits a teacher is it ok for a teacher to hit the kid back? If a kid uses a derogatory term at a teacher is it ok for the teacher to use one back?

[ManicMatt]

I don't like it when people of the same skin colour as mine assume I won't take offence by their racist words against any non-whites just because I'm also white.