Kramer is a racist nutbag!

[Helm]

yeah that sort of 'we're in the same hate club by default' mentality is repulsive.

[Darth Mandarb]

Why is it more serious for a white man to insult a black man than a black man to insult a white man?  Just because the history of bad things happening to them is more recent in your mind does not make it more relevant.

This is my sentiment exactly.

For the sake of simplicity, let's just talk in white/black terms:

As it stands now it's accepted if a black person is racist, but not a white guy.  It needs to reach a point where it's either okay for a white person to be racist OR it's not acceptable for a black person to be.  One or the other.

If black people want to be racist they need to accept Kramer saying "nigger" on stage.  Equal Rights.  Doesn't matter that America enslaved black people in the past.  This is now, not then.

Personally, as I've stated before, the biggest problem (in America) to my way of thinking is that the vast majority of its people have become a group of lazy-ass whining pussies (regardless of race).  The race-card/racism excuse is just another sad example of this.  Use anything you can to get the most benefit from the least amount of work and blame your inadequecies on anything but yourself.

I've heard a lot of chatter saying that white people should have to pay restitution for slavery.  I didn't have anything to do with slavery (as I stated before) and I will not give a single penny towards restitution for it.  I don't like that my country practiced slavery but, as I and others have commented on in this very thread, EVERY culture has practiced it in the past.  We aren't better or worse and black people (in America) don't deserve anything special as a result of it.

yeah that sort of 'we're in the same hate club by default' mentality is repulsive.

I've dealt with this before too ... I usually just shake my head and walk away.  Can't cure ignorance.

[Helm]

let's just talk in white/black terms:

Seriously, let's not. The worst way you can approach such a multileveled issue is in broad and absolutist terms, I think.

I find an interesting hidden meaning in how you phrased something. You say either it's ok for all to be racist, or for none to be racist. That'd make you happy? Would you in some way be content if it was 'ok' for whites to be racist and blacks to be racist, everybody to be racist? This is leading to that maybe it's more important to push back racism in every place we can, even if it's not uniformly for now, than to consider racism a right and see how it would fall under equal such.

Really really wrong turn of phrase for you there, equal rights in racism, Darth.

[ManicMatt]

I think Darth meant, for it no longer to be considered racist to say that n word, rather than being racist. At least, I hope that's what he meant.. Something like that.

There was a time when I was younger when my mind didn't even process what skin colour a person is. But everytime such descriptions are brought up (ie EVERYWHERE) my mind thinks a little differently, and I don't like it.

An ideal world could be if nobody even thought about it, unless pressed to make a description for identification purposes. Never gonna happen though..

[Darth Mandarb]

Seriously, let's not. The worst way you can approach such a multileveled issue is in broad and absolutist terms, I think.

In the interest of simplicity I put the comparison I was about to make in black/white terms so it I didn't have to say "When a white / black / spanish / cuban / mexican/ chinese / korean / mexican person makes a comment against a white / black / spanish / cuban / mexican/ chinese / korean / mexican it's not okay ... but when a white / black / spanish / cuban / mexican/ chinese / korean / mexican person makes a racist comment on a white / black / spanish / cuban / mexican/ chinese / korean / mexican person ..." everytime.

Figured most would get that?

I find an interesting hidden meaning in how you phrased something. You say either it's ok for all to be racist, or for none to be racist. That'd make you happy? Would you in some way be content if it was 'ok' for whites to be racist and blacks to be racist, everybody to be racist? This is leading to that maybe it's more important to push back racism in every place we can, even if it's not uniformly for now, than to consider racism a right and see how it would fall under equal such.

Really really wrong turn of phrase for you there, equal rights in racism, Darth.

I realize some of my previous posts have been rather "novel" like but I believe they validate the point that I'm against racism in any form.  There was no "hidden meaning" in what I said.

If a black person thinks they are entitled to racism (for whatever reason) then they have to accept that some white people are going to give it back.  It is NOT equal rights if we tolerate racism from some, but not others.  If we ARE going to tolerate it from some, it must be tolerated from all.

Just to clarify, it shouldn't be (in my opinion) tolerated from anybody.

Clear it up any?

[skyfire2]

Figured most would get that?

Thanks for clarifying because I thought the same as Helm.

[LimpingFish]

Devil's advocate: Why is the plight of the american negro slave, as documented to have been abolished in most forms during the period 1791-1865, still relavent to modern African-American society?

On political correctness, it is now impossible to view a complete version of the Marx Brother's film A Day at the Races on network television in the US.

A sequence with a large black family, singing "All God's Chillun' Got Wings" (complete with lots of eye-rolling, shuffling of feet, and "Uncle Tom" vibe), as they rest at the edge of the cotton plantation they are (presumably) in slavery to.

This has been completely excised from all available prints used on network television, so as (presumably) to prevent contemporary African-American society from being reminded that their country once "owned" them.

The slow erasure of american history. "It was bad. We don't want to upset you by reminding you of it."

Guilt.

Presumably, portraying Romanian immigrants as thieving gypsies (an extended musical number from the earlier Marx Brother's comedy, A Night at the Opera, which remains complete in current available prints) isn't as important.

And I'll bet it was a roundtable of white TV executives that made the decision to edit the former.

None of this bears any influence on "racism" in its purest form. Hatred. People who hate to the extent the they wish to extinguish another race care little for political correctness.

[Erenan]

I've heard a lot of chatter saying that white people should have to pay restitution for slavery.  I didn't have anything to do with slavery (as I stated before) and I will not give a single penny towards restitution for it.  I don't like that my country practiced slavery but, as I and others have commented on in this very thread, EVERY culture has practiced it in the past.  We aren't better or worse and black people (in America) don't deserve anything special as a result of it.

I feel the same way. For some reason, people view races as though they are teams or something. They're just collections of genes, for crying out loud! I don't affiliate myself with people of similar genetic makeup.

[evenwolf]

There are some interesting movies that will never air on TV.   I watched one called "Drum" that was ridiculous.   Warren Oates plays a plantation owner who loses control of his home to his slaves.   It's SUCH a ridiculous movie Warren throws the word "nigger" every which way, all the while molesting every big busted woman on the farm.   It was one of those movies played at midnight in a local theater, and the crowd was laughing practically all the way through.   There's tons of racism in the movie but the argument is always present, so the movie isnt much at fault.


Birth of a Nation is extremely racist, but its highly respected in film schools.   It came up in every film calss I took at UT Austin.

[rharpe]

It's unfortunate he flew off the handle with insults. As a professional he should know better than to lose his cool.

I do sympathize for him though. Here he is trying to put on a show, and has these men talking while he's trying to concentrate and do his gig. Someone from the club should have escorted the men out or at least told them to shut up while Richard was trying to entertain. Maybe they didn't have enough time to respond... I don't know the circumstances. Maybe Richard's under a lot of stress to build up his rep.. no sleep, etc., etc. 

Richard should have apologized to the men for his comments right there and then, and the men should have apologized to Richard for being extremely rude. This did not have to go to the international news... (dumb @$$ tabloids.)

Comments or not, Richard is still a great comedian and this does not change my opinion of him one bit. 

[Sam.]

No matter how much he apologises, he shouldn't have used racism as on offence. If I get angry with a black person, I wouldn't use their skin colour against them, purely because it isn't a factor in my opinion. He said that it was due to rage, but the racist thoughts were clearly in his head, otherwise he wouldn't have said them, no matter how much he claims not to be a racist. Maybe he was under pressure or strain or whatever but his comments are unforgivable. Racism or prejudice (positive or negative) is for idiots. End of.

[evenwolf]

From the imdb message boards.Ã,  Can't be certain this is an honest account, but here goes:

I WAS THERE....
He tried to brush it off, but the place isnt that big to begin with, and they kept going and going and after every single jokes whether it was funny or not the hecklers were loud to the point where you could hear them almost as loud as you could here him. Also I have been to many shows with many hecklers and these guys were literally interrupting the show.

And here's what the hecklers said on the Today Show
http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1775780

At the end of the clip some dumb white woman reports her opinion that Kramer should offer these guys money.Ã,  That is the stupidest damn thing I have ever heard.Ã,  Ã,  I guess he could settle with them if they choose to sue.Ã,  Ã, But offer them money for damages?Ã,  Ã, Absurd.

[skyfire2]

From the imdb message boards.  Can't be certain this is an honest account, but here goes:

I WAS THERE....
He tried to brush it off, but the place isnt that big to begin with, and they kept going and going and after every single jokes whether it was funny or not the hecklers were loud to the point where you could hear them almost as loud as you could here him. Also I have been to many shows with many hecklers and these guys were literally interrupting the show.

And here's what the hecklers said on the Today Show
http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1775780

At the end of the clip some dumb white woman reports her opinion that Kramer should offer these guys money.  That is the stupidest damn thing I have ever heard.    I guess he could settle with them if they choose to sue.   But offer them money for damages?   Absurd.

To DGMacphee, go chew on a big salty dick. You're worthless and everyone hates you in real life.

[evenwolf]

If you say black people are the only people who have ever done that, yes, that would be racist.

These guys are playing the race card, certainly.Ã,  But nothing's unusual about this case, people try to feed off famous people all the time.Ã, Ã,  Michael Richards seems a little washed up and pathetic to go after.Ã,  Maybe he owns a piece of "Seinfeld"?Ã,  Ã,  I doubt that.

[Domino]

C'mon now, Kramer had a black lawyer in Seinfeld.  But the episode when he had a bunch of Asians sleeping in a dresser, and they couldn't get out. Well that is racist. 

Sorry, just trying to lighten up the mood of this thread a bit.

[evenwolf]

But the episode when he had a bunch of Asians sleeping in a dresser, and they couldn't get out. Well that is racist.

"stereotyping"

There's a difference between racism and stereotyping.   A lot of individuals stereotype because they are racist, but one word is not synonymous with the other.   In comedy, stereotyping is usually encouraged.

[Domino]

That is why i put the    there.  I know it isn't racism. I'm just trying to lighten the mood of this thread.

have a good night everyone.

Shawn

[DGMacphee]

Not that I'm trying to be racist or anything but that just proves how far black people will go to get free money. They've always used racism as a trump card but now its going too far. What Michael Richards did is wrong but paying money for flying off the handle at some black people is just ridiculous.

No, that is a fucking racist thing to say. In fact, forget racist, it's just fucking dumb. You make it seem like the hecklers had this all planned in advance: an elaborate plot to heckle Krammer in the off-chance he'd go nuts, start calling them niggers, apologise on national TV so they had some justification for playing the race card and sue him? Give me a break!

I mean, Christ, this is no different to any moron spilling coffee on himself and suing Starbucks. Doesn't matter if you're black or white.

[Helm]

Not that I'm trying to be racist or anything but that just proves how far black people will go to get free money.

Sorry. That's racism right there.

[DGMacphee]

thems black people just wants to gets the money to buy more fried chicken and malt licka

DY... NO... MITE!!!