Kramer is a racist nutbag!

[Babar]

*  Babar makes the obligatory derogatory statement against skyfire1 so that people don't look at him strangely

See, I don't make the distinction between black and white. I make distinctions between idiots and non-idiots.

You evil mentalist, you! 150 years from now, when people have stopped judging others on their level of intelligence, everyone will point at you and laugh, and I'll tell them that even back then I felt the same way.

Like I said before, I don't really think the Kramer person is racist. Perhaps a little stupid for not being able to judge the level of reaction that would have stemmed from his comments, but not racist. I'm assuming he used the word 'nigger' because he assumed that would be one thing that would shock the hecklers into silence, not because a 'nigger' is someone who is mentally inferior and incapable of shutting up while he gets on with his show.

It's pretty obvious here in 2006 that a human isn't any different from another human because of the colour of skin. It's generally agreed (and vehemently been affirmed in this thread :o ) that anyone who thinks otherwise is insane. Perhaps my solution is a little insensitive, but why not just ignore anything to do with race, then?

Someone who believes that another person is 'different' because of the skin colour is racist. So then almost all colleges are racist for displaying the 'level of diversity' they have in their colleges. They are racist for having a specific percentage of students they need to fill of 'another race' so as to show their diversity. People who wish to restrict the use of the word 'Paki' are racist for assuming that being Paki is somehow inferior to being non-Paki. As far as I can tell, the word nigger is a derogatory derivation from negro. While negro wasn't meant to mean anything insulting, nigger was. Some form of the word negro is still used in many languages to mean the colour black. To make a differentiated between 'niggah' and 'nigger' is silly. Both (and even the word negro) are used frequently in music and movies.

Why not remove anything to do with differentiation of races, then? Someone who is still racist in this day and age, is obviously got some problems, and either will get  looked at oddly, talked down to, beaten, or institutionalised till those problems are gone. Giving special treatment will always cause a lingering sliver of racism. Instead, treat all equal!

[Andail]

I agree that we shouldn't nail any single ags-er to the cross or label him as racist or whatever at first sight. My previous post just said that Skyfire made a bullshit post, which was mainly to make him realise that it wasn't a matter of an isolated personal attack on DG's part, but a general opinion.

Now, enough flame-baiting, all of us. Let's go back to pertinent debating, or the thread is better off locked.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Heh, funny. Equalization seems to be the word of order. Everybody become equal. Let Europe become a country, one coin, one education system (or whatever that Bologna treaty was up to). Let us all become one big family.

Thing is, equal to who? We do come in different races, that's a fact. We're no better or worse for that, but we ARE different. We come from different cultural backgrounds. We may even have different values because of that. We ARE different, and equalization isn't always the answer.

So, treat them all like they were caucasians.

Heh, if you're cynical enough even THAT can be a racist statement - why not treat them like they were all asians, or negroes (is that an acceptable word?)? Heck, why not diverse further and go into Latins vs North Europeans vs Africans vs...

Banning all race diferentiation won't really solve the problem, but then, we (Europe) have already managed to make America european (meaning: we went there a long time ago, evicted the Indians and imposed our type of culture - America isn't Europe, but it's the same sort of culture and values and whatnot). And America's been trying to extend it everywhere (is it inapporpriate at this time to bring up the Cold War? Accourse, America wasn't the only one to fault)...

...it's in our genes, our intolerance, I guess. Ah well. Best we can do is really understand that we're all different people. No better. No worse. But certainly not equal.

Mind you, translate that into a political statement/vision and you'll be lynched.

Re Kramer - no artist should behave that way. There are more dignified ways to deal with problems like that, and keeping your head cool is part of the whole business - if you can't keep your head cool onstage, choose another profession. Especially because the audience will remember these things above all else. It's a real career-killer. Also, it does seem to bring up some of his own personal issues - no matter how enraged, would a person with non-racist views bring up stuff like that, say things like that?

[Darth Mandarb]

Why not remove anything to do with differentiation of races, then? Someone who is still racist in this day and age, is obviously got some problems, and either will get  looked at oddly, talked down to, beaten, or institutionalised till those problems are gone. Giving special treatment will always cause a lingering sliver of racism. Instead, treat all equal!

I've always thought the term "African American" is useless.

1) Isn't being just an American good enough for you?
2) Charlize Theron isn't black and she's an African-American
3) Just further seperates the races



I would wager that if you scooped up 100 black people off the street and asked them to name 5 countries in Africa that only 1 or 2 could actually do it.  (This isn't a comment on the stupidity of black people, it'd be exactly the same with white people).

Thing is, equal to who? We do come in different races, that's a fact. We're no better or worse for that, but we ARE different. We come from different cultural backgrounds. We may even have different values because of that. We ARE different, and equalization isn't always the answer.

This is why I want aliens to visit our planet ... an alien life-form so different from humans that it would serve to show the ignorant human race that even given our cultural differences etc. we are all, basically, the same.  We're all a fragile carbon based life-form inhabbiting the same planet.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

We're all a fragile carbon based life-form inhabbiting the same planet.

Oh, ayuh, from a global point of view. But we work in societies, and in cultures, and so if we are to be treated that globally we need to adopt a single "culture/society". And the question is, which? And the next question is, what gives us the right to judge and choose?

Accourse, most of my previous post was theoretical. In practical terms, it's a lot easier - when in Rome, behave like a Roman. And when a Roman, treat everyone like a fellow Roman. Heck, for sake of this discussion you can even insult them and get into a barfight, as long as you treat them like you'd treat a fellow Roman.

[scotch]

Rui, equal doesn't mean identical, in this sense it generally means of equal worth. "No better. No worse. But certainly not equal." makes very little sense to me in that context. Equality for people all races doesn't mean making all races like caucasians any more than equality for men and women means sewing penises onto the girls. Various countries merging into one culture isn't particularly related to principles of equality.

[Babar]

[EDIT]: What scotch said

Hehe...I voiced some of the same concerns a while back, Rui:

As long as people will be brought up in a different way because of what they look like/what their sex is/what their country of origin is, there will be some sort of tension. Now the question is, do we want to lose associations that come with what we look like/what our sex is/what our country of origin is?

It's the associations, not the colour/gender/religion we are that makes us different.

But that's not exactly what I meant by equality. Equality is not synonomous with sameness. Sure, we're all different, but that has more to do with different culture, upbringing, family, living conditions, etc. than to do with race. It's not the 'race' that makes you different. I am proud of how I am with regards to my culture, upbringing, etc. but it doesn't make me better than what someone else is. The point is, there are many places that race should not even come into the question. Why should a college be interested at all in my race (even if the box is optional)? They might as well be asking about my taste in music, the size of my foot, or the amount of hair on my belly. Then they can go and say in their brochures that they have people of all amounts of belly hair! Diversity!

NB: It seems that whenever I talk on the level of the individual, people bring it up to the level of the government. Just something odd to note.

*Edit* Hahahah...They have an award for Highest Achieving African American Student now?! See, that's what I meant. Why not an award for Highest Achieving Midget Student? Or Highest Achieving Eleven-Fingered Student?

[ManicMatt]

Babar, it's not like that. With the Pakistan short word. As I said in a PM, in my country it's used as a derogatory and offensive word at anyone of that skin colour. It's hard to explain. It's like, it doesn't matter to them where you came from, were born, live etc. You're just referred to under this one word as they don't care. So if Babar, you were born in the UK and had never even been to Pakistan, these ignorant fools would still refer to you as that word to alienate you, single everyone out of the same skin colour as you, and plonk them into one catagory like you're all the same. And that's what I really hate about it. So, to that end, if I was born in Pakistan, and came to the UK, I wouldn't be reffered to by that short word, as I am white. I hope I've explained that to you in a way you understood.

But to me, Babar is that nice person who is a part of the AGS community.

I wish to lighten to mood, if at least for myself:

[skyfire2]

SkyFire, that thread you posted about DG was clearly a parody... everybody involved in the thread is clearly enjoying it.


Has SkyFire every posted pictures of himself on the internet? Have you SkyFire? I really want to see what you look like... and how old you look...


SkyFire, I am disgusted by your racism. At 15, you are old enough to know better

And don't try denying you're 15 any longer, here's a little more proof if you like...
http://skyfirehideout.proboards78.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=admin

The link you gave me links to the proboards site. That proves alot.

At any rate I'm kinda sick of this thread so I'll leave it be for now.

[Mac]

Before you removed the forums it was a link to your admin profile with a birth date of 1991. I've got nothing against you but, why bother?

[Meowster]

Just in case anybody is wondering, before SkyFire removed the boards, that linked to this page.

Which states he is 15, hence should know better... of course SkyFire1 seems determined to lie about his age for some reason, and in doing so keeps lying/editing posts/etc...


Although that said, racism is something that even children can't be excused for.


Back on topic... once, a black woman was found murdered near our house. The police came around to question us and our neighbours, and they kept referring to the victim as a "coloured" person... when my mother said, "black woman" at one point, the police corrected her and said, "ahem, coloured lady".

Erm... I mean, besides the fact there's nothing wrong with saying "black woman"... isn't "coloured" actually kinda an unpleasant term to use?

[skyfire2]

God I don't own those forums. I had no idea they even existed until Yutzster google cache linked. There are other people on the internet named skyfire1. I bet you'll say I lied about my career after reading this.

*waits to hear everyone say "OMG! HE PHOTOGRAPHS!"

[Meowster]

God I don't own those forums. I had no idea they even existed until Yutzster google cache linked. There are other people on the internet named skyfire1. I bet you'll say I lied about my profession after reading this.

*waits to hear everyone say "OMG! HE PHOTOGRAPHS!"

other people on the internet called skyfire1, who also are 15, and live in Miami. And also what a coincidence that THAT SkyFire1 took down his site just as YOU discovered I'd found it!

I'm going to stop hijacking this thread now, sorry! I really enjoy watching SkyFire1 struggle and squirm and lie though... don't mind me

[ManicMatt]

Yeah the term "Coloured" seems stupid to me, and I've never used it. I'd also say it's not very nice, so I too am surprised the police would use it.

I mean, I'm hardly black and white! I'm have a colour too!

[EagerMind]

It's for reasons like this that, personally, I think we should keep celebrities bound and gagged in a closet until it's time for them to do their scenes in front of the camera. When I saw the video, my first reaction was, "wow, yet another celebrity has a public meltdown." This puts Michael Richards in a select category with Mel Gibson, Tom Cruise, Winona Ryder, Mariah Carey, and many, many, many more ....

Really, there are enough problems in the world without some raving, washed-up TV star trying to make commentary on society. Who cares what he says? Instead of debating whether it's worse for a white person to use racial slang on a black person or vice versa, or whether we should call black people "black" (like the ABFF does), or "negro" (like the UNCF does), or "colored" (like the NAACP does), let's agree that Richards is an idiot, racism is bad, and get on with productive lives.

[ManicMatt]

..and get on with productive lives.

Well you see...

[evenwolf]

Really, there are enough problems in the world without some raving, washed-up TV star trying to make commentary on society. Who cares what he says?

Eager,Ã,  I've always felt that celebrities have just as much right to share their opinion as anybody else.Ã,  Ã, When a doctor makes an appearance on a discovery channel documentary, well certainly that opinion is grounded in the person's specialty and he should state his opinion, for instance on the danger of smoking cigarettes.

Likewise, any average joe pulled aside at a rally has every right to state his opinion for the local news.Ã,  Ã, So to generalize celebreties as "cute little pretty things who should only speak when directed to do so"Ã,  always seemed a little naive and a bit neglectful of their first amendment rights.

I totally understand on a case by case situation when Mel Gibson or Tom Cruise goes too far for public opinion.Ã,  Ã, But its not like actors should be hearded into a quarantined room and instructed not to speak their own social or political beliefs.Ã,  After all, if the advertising world is willing to pay celebreties millions of dollars for endorsements- that's a sure signal that someone believes celebrities have sway on the american people.

And in cases like Michael Jordan or Johnny Depp- you must admit that the celebrity earned their public standing.

[Gregjazz]

God I don't own those forums. I had no idea they even existed until Yutzster google cache linked. There are other people on the internet named skyfire1. I bet you'll say I lied about my profession after reading this.

*waits to hear everyone say "OMG! HE PHOTOGRAPHS!"

other people on the internet called skyfire1, who also are 15, and live in Miami. And also what a coincidence that THAT SkyFire1 took down his site just as YOU discovered I'd found it!

I'm going to stop hijacking this thread now, sorry! I really enjoy watching SkyFire1 struggle and squirm and lie though... don't mind me

I love Google cache.

Oh, also your profile on the Infamous Adventure forums: http://www.infamous-adventures.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=195

Male, age 15, location Miami, Florida. It even has the same email address as your AGS profile, so don't tell me that it's a different person.

[LimpingFish]

I think we established his age a fair few threads back. I'm bored with the topic.

LimpingFish tokes on some Oil of Olay.

[modgeulator]

Not that I'm trying to be racist or anything but that just proves how far black people will go to get free money. They've always used racism as a trump card but now its going too far. What Michael Richards did is wrong but paying money for flying off the handle at some black people is just ridiculous.

Thank you Skyfire ... you couldn't possibly have proven my point better than that.

"how far black people will go to get free money"

Just to clarify, is this the offensive statement by Skyfire? It seems a naive and poorly considered thing to say, but I'm not quite ready to compare Skyfire1 with Kramer or Adolf Hitler over it. It's also amusing to see that some of you were actually agreeing with him at first...  :o