I have an issue with my computer and due lack of technical knowledge, I'm pretty confused.
Inside the main case is a cooling fan, that's supposed to circulate air inside the case (Not the cooler on processor or one in power unit. An additional one). By Intel Chassis Guide, it's supposed to blow heated air out of the case.
(http://www.increator.pri.ee/i/aagh.png)
The marked one!
Well, it's broken. When I start computer, it won't go around, but vibrates very little and produces clicking sound. Continuously. Just like it's trying really hard to spin, but doesn't have power to do so.
And of course, everything starts heating up.
When I give it even a slightest push, it starts rotating, and keeps doing it nicely until poweroff.
So, basically every time I start my machine, I must open case and manually push fan to work. Sometimes, when I turn machine off for only brief period, like half an hour, fan starts with computer nicely. But longer period, it's all manual.
I cleaned it as well as I could, it isn't too dusty anyway, tried to shake it a little (if it has bad angle or something), checked for obstacles, checked wires... nothing. I just have to start it manually every time like an old motorcycle.
I want to get rid of this problem. But guarantee is expired, and even if it wasn't, I would dare to live few days to a week without my machine. Also, I guess that by opening case, I voided warranty anyway. So, if anyone could answer any of those questions, my gratitude is yours eternal.
* What could possibly be the problem?
* Is there something that could work?
* Is there a way to give it deeper cleaning? Screwing it out or not?
* Is changing a fan difficult?
* Does it have to be original (Intel) fan then?
* If I buy a fan, is there any parameters I have to follow? Like voltage or spin speed or something?
* Anything else that I could check/try?
Hi there,
problems like these occur from time to time.
I once had a fan that was making noises that were close to starting up a car, but only like 5 minutes after startup. Then, it dissapeared. I guess the cause was heat.
Maybe the same heat explains that when you start it up after half an hour it goes off nicely. I think the problem can be the age of the fan, or not, failures happen. It is not unusual for a fan to stop working correctly, just imagine how busy that little guy is ;D
My advice: try to screw it out and clean it as much as you can by any means necessary - disassembly and assembly (if it breaks, you can go for new one for a pound or so). Then, try it out. If it does not work (that is like 90 percent) then save it, go to nearest PC shop and buy one that suits. Just ask that you want a similar one, they will know. There are tons of fans out there and they are almost free.
If you want to choose one by yourself, look for:
- Dimensions - very important - to fit your case
- Size of fan/diameter/air flow - how effective it is
- Material
- RPM - the faster the cooler the noisier
- Noise if it matters
- Connector type (3 or 4 pin)
Changing is not difficult at all:
- Screw it in
- Connect it - usually the same 4-pin connection as HDDs and optical drives, no big deal
Hope I helped, feel free to ask
Oh, and I definitely think it is not necessary to buy an original one. Just do not buy some really cheap crap that will break after two weeks - you can see it wheter it is crap or not, trust me ;)
Quote from: Oliwerko on Mon 17/03/2008 20:21:47
I once had a fan that was making noises that were close to starting up a car, but only like 5 minutes after startup. Then, it dissapeared. I guess the cause was heat.
I had this problem. I asked my Uncle (who built my computer) what is was and he said something about cold days affecting bearings (I think he mentioned ceramic)... I don't know how accurate he was, but I noticed it was worse on cold days.
He told me I could fix it immediately by jamming a pen in the fan and then removing it. I'm now sure how good a practise this is, but hey, it worked.
As to InCreator - I think you should be able to find heaps of different fans to fit your PC (from what I have read in magazines) - it shouldn't have to be an original Intel fan, however I may be wrong.
It's simply a broken fan and the only solution is to replace it. It doesn't have to be an Intel fan, any fan will do. The external fan such is this is actually very important it can reduce CPU temperature by up to 20 degrees celsius just due to it circulating hot air out. And I say that based on experience. As Oliwerko said replacing it is very easy, just a bunch of screws and one connector to the motherboard. It's really hard to mix up when to connect it to but if you're really insecure about it just make sure you put connect it exactly where the old one was connected. And these fans are cheap. But buy something that's mid range in price. The real expensive ones will not give you such a big difference that would be worth your money and the cheapest ones won't last long. Look for the things Oliwerko listed but one thing is wrong - about RPM - the more the cooler is true but it doesn't have to be noisier. That's up to the quality and the manufacturer. Plus keeping it clean will always keep it quieter.
As for Ben304's uncle's therory about the cold, it sounds ridiculous but even it were true his "solution" is not a solution. If you live in a country that's so cold the mechanism of the fan freezes then you should just buy a fan that's made of materials that won't freeze.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Tue 18/03/2008 08:37:08
If you live in a country that's so cold the mechanism of the fan freezes then you should just buy a fan that's made of materials that won't freeze.
Tis rather warm where I live.
Then your uncle's theory is even more ridiculous. I see you live in Western Australia and the climate there couldn't be so cold to freeze a fan. And obviously jamming a pen in a fan causes damage even it seems to magically solve the problem for the short term, it obviously not a real solution to anything.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Tue 18/03/2008 09:56:49
And obviously jamming a pen in a fan causes damage even it seems to magically solve the problem for the short term, it obviously not a real solution to anything.
AFAIK the reason most fans fail (which gradually they do, with age) is warped blades. Fiddling with the blades to alter their shape (with a pen, sure, though there are probably more subtle ways) can in that case be a decent temporary fix. Considering that the only
good solution in such a case is getting a new fan, I don't think there's that much harm in it...
Well, the fan in question still works quite well, so it is not damaged to the point that it does not function as the fan should. I have had the fan in question since 2003. That it has run for 5 years (even with my pen jabbing ways) is quite pleasing to me. I believe the temperature issue is not to do with the fan freezing - it is more likely in my opinion to be related to the fact that materials expand and contract when temperatures change. Perhaps this causes blade warpage, as suggested by EldKatt, and the pen jars the fan into a position that doesn't cause the sound. You may ridicule the theory if you choose, however it has worked for me for 5 years without ruining the fan, so I stick by the theory. It solves the problem of the annoying noise, and my fan still works - I shall state that it is a real solution, however I will agree that there are better solutions.
My apologies of course, I don't mean to be argumentative, but stating that something that works for me is worthy of ridicule is something I am inclined to disagree with.
I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just saying it's not a real solution. The fan will continue to fail times and times again until one day your CPU or motherboard could suffer damages because you didn't change the fan. These "genius" fixes can temporarily improve things in the short term but they're not substitude to replacing a bad part. You wouldn't put a stick in your car's engine to fix something bad in it. You'd only make a temporary fix so the car would make it to the garage. Same thing with computers.
Exactly.
It is like when you fix something with tape just to hold it in place - just to stay usable a few more days. It is not a final solution.
I think the cause is heat - constant heat changes, it gets hot when running, cold when shut down, then hot again, cold again, hot, cold, hot, cold and so on. In addition, it has high RPM. So it is quite expectable to have fan failures.
Thanks.
I'll unscrew this damn fan tomorrow, take it to a store and see what they have to offer.
Maybe I'll try pen-jam-thing first, too.
Indeed, dualcore system with laaarge video card heats quite high, and indeed, my room is very cold for most of the time. Way below 20C. Temperature changes tire even myself, I guess this applies to electronics too.
Still, what a shame. My machine is about a year old and fan started malfunctioning in about 4th month. I thought Intelâ,,¢ is a reliable company, but if even such simple things as fans fail so quickly...
With regards to the pen jab thing - I know it can stop your fan making noises, but I doubt it will help with this problem at all - I was posting in relation to Oliwerko's comment, so in this case I'd definitely get another fan.
I'm now wondering how many watts your power supply is rated at, and whether this could be the problem - perhaps it doesn't have enough juice getting to it to start it up? Seems a bit unlikely but, if your computer ran fine before.
Quote from: Oliwerko on Tue 18/03/2008 20:52:26
Exactly.
It is like when you fix something with tape just to hold it in place - just to stay usable a few more days. It is not a final solution.
I think the cause is heat - constant heat changes, it gets hot when running, cold when shut down, then hot again, cold again, hot, cold, hot, cold and so on. In addition, it has high RPM. So it is quite expectable to have fan failures.
Which brings me to another important point - don't turn off your PC. Today's computers are built to be on all the time, there's no reason so shut them down, they can handle it. Turning them off and on again every day just shortens life of components in the computer, like this example.
InCreator, Don't sweat over your fan breaking so soon, it's just a fan. Not an expensive component. If you bought the whole computer as a package from Intel I believe they would equip it with a sufficient cooling system, but if you bought if from some store that built it part by part then lots of time they don't equip it with a suffiecient cooling system or as suggested power supply. Though a power supply problem would probably have greater consequences then just the fan. Anyway after you replace the fan (and consider buying one that's a little better then what you had) I recommend getting a small program called aida32. With it you can see the temperature of your CPU and motherboard and judge if it's cold enough plus see the output of the power supply and see if it's giving out what it should.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Wed 19/03/2008 08:39:51
I recommend getting a small program called aida32. With it you can see the temperature of your CPU and motherboard and judge if it's cold enough plus see the output of the power supply and see if it's giving out what it should.
For this purpose I use Intel Desktop Utilities which work fine with all that voltages and stuff. Best for proper core temperature measures is IMHO program called simply "Core Temp". It measures very accurately. In combination with Intel Desktop Utilities, it provides me with all info I need. But any such program will work I think.
Its a $3 fan, save your self the grief and replace it. :P
Its probly easier than trying to get someone to fix it under warranty.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Wed 19/03/2008 08:39:51
Which brings me to another important point - don't turn off your PC. Today's computers are built to be on all the time, there's no reason so shut them down, they can handle it. Turning them off and on again every day just shortens life of components in the computer, like this example.
I have not heard this before. Reference?
I gota say thats completely wrong, especially with all the fuss over "global warming" and energy conservation. They would be encouraging us keep them off as often as possible.
PCs these days require more power to run than ever before. Most PCs will have a 500watt MINIMUM power supply where 10 years ago most PCs would have had a 220 or 250 watt.
Power management features on most systems dont work either :/
Tho with the popularity of LCD screens on the rise its getting back to normal.
QuoteWhich brings me to another important point - don't turn off your PC. Today's computers are built to be on all the time, there's no reason so shut them down, they can handle it. Turning them off and on again every day just shortens life of components in the computer, like this example.
QuoteI have not heard this before. Reference?
That's pretty much how I lost my first machine. After two weeks of power-on, it simply died. Motherboard got damaged enough beyond repair.
Sorry, no.
What I'm saying is what computer PROS recommend. People who work in the business. InCreator lost his first machine due to insufficient cooling system and\or possibly very cheap motherboard that might have not been all right from the start. No motherboard should die after only 2 weeks no matter how hard it worked. And the fact is these cooling problems this keeps happening to you so my advice is you should definitely buy your PCs from people who know more about them. People who are more reliable to build a proper system and not put in the cheapest parts carelessly and without making sure cooling is right just to make a profit and give a good price. And measure your temperatures periodically and equip your PC with proper cooling already.
Fee, all this "save the Earth" stuff etc you mentioned may be true but computer manufactures don't care. They obviously want to sell and make profit as much as they can so they make hardware to satisify people's needs and expectations. And people need and expect their PC to be capable of being on all the time nowadays, so today's computers ARE built to be on all the time because the manufacturers know that people expect their computers to work all the time for the sake of everything they do on the internet with downloads and all that stuff. Pros in the IT business recommend not to turn off PCs because today's computers are built to remain on and every time you turn off or turn on your PC electrical shock hits the motherboard, hard drive and other parts. In time these shocks accumlate to damage that shortens the part's lives. Just because your machine wasn't built right with a suffiecient cooling system doesn't mean your PC shouldn't stay on. It just means people made a lousy job building your machine, probably for you to have a cheaper price that you'll be happy with. Believe me, I know this fear of leaving your computer on after it had a breakdown, but it's just paranoia that is very common with home users. Your first machine broke down because it wasn't built properly (cooling system\too cheap parts) but PCs are still built to be on all the time today.
The solution to a machine that over heats is not turning it off because when on it will overheat again ad turning it and off causes aforementioned damage. The solution to a machine that overheats is simply setting up a suffiecient cooling system that will keep the temperature steadily in a normal temperature and then it's all safe.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Thu 20/03/2008 22:36:56
What I'm saying is what computer PROS recommend. People who work in the business.
[...]
And today's computers ARE built to be on all the time because the manufacturers know that people expect their computers to work all the time for the sake of everything they do on the internet with downloads and all that stuff. Pros in the IT business recommend not to turn off PCs because today's computers are built to remain on and every time you turn off or turn on your PC electrical shock hits the motherboard, hard drive and other parts. In time these shocks accumlate to damage that shortens the part's lives.
I have not heard this before. Reference?Seriously, you still haven't made any effort to show why anyone should think you're right. If "the pros", collectively, are saying this, you will have no problem finding articles to support your claim. I would appreciate this because it interests me.
Well google it out and see it that some support this, some don't. But most agree that keeping it on doesn't damage it and doesn't increase breakdown chances as long as there is suffiecient cooling and you clean out the dust periodically. In any case no motherboard is supposed to die in 2 weeks period.
I'm just trying to help here and I'm tired of trying to prove things for you guys. You wanted advice, you got it. You can either take it or not.