Does anyone remember Limbo of the Lost, the game created with Wintermute and recently released commercially around the world? Well, you will now :D!
The team of behind LOTL is now accused of stealing assets (mainly art) from various AAA game titles, including WoW, Crysis, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Morrowind, Painkiller, Diablo II, Silent Hill 4, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and even some movies, currently at least Spawn the Movie and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End. Most notable however, is the blatant plagiarism from Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. They actually copied basically everything they needed for the game scenes by simply taking screenshots from Oblivion.
Although clearly it was a very crappy game, it happened to get publishers and distribution around the world, though in light of this 'incident', distribution has been halted. Legal action from at least Bethesda Software is pending, as they said their legal team was currently looking into the matter.
I can't get my head around how they thought they'd get away with this. Even so, it's very sad since these guys seemed to be so passionate building a game for more than 10 years, that they were blinded by their own ambitions. Nevertheless, I have no sympathy for this kind of idiocy, and I hope they are sued.
One of the comparison shots (Thief: Deadly Shadows):
Thief: Deadly Shadows (http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/thief_deadly_shadows/92784)
Limbo of the Lost (http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/limbo_of_the_lost/231765)
Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_of_the_Lost#Controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_of_the_Lost#Controversy) - Wikipedia
http://www.gameplasma.com/limbo_of_the_lost_or_oblivion (http://www.gameplasma.com/limbo_of_the_lost_or_oblivion) - GamePlasma article, the guys who initially noticed the theft
http://kotaku.com/5015674/cheeky-pc-adventure-game-accused-of-grand-theft-assets (http://kotaku.com/5015674/cheeky-pc-adventure-game-accused-of-grand-theft-assets) - Kotaku article
http://forum.dead-code.org/index.php?topic=2746 (http://forum.dead-code.org/index.php?topic=2746) - Wintermute forum thread for the game (currently ravaged by angry peers)
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53090 (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53090) - Shacknews article
http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644 (http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644) - Article in the Kent Messenger just a month ago
http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=795 (http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=795) - Interview from 2006
http://www.trisynergy.com (http://www.trisynergy.com) - The main publisher
http://www.geocities.com/limboofthelost (http://www.geocities.com/limboofthelost) - The game homepage, now of course offline.
What can I say. It's awesomely funny. Could it be that these guys just didn't know better, or were too naive to realise? It's not civilized behavious to laugh at someone's misfortune, but... No wonder it took them 10 years and more, after all, they had to wait for big games like these to be finished.
QuoteSteve: The project is more influenced by film and literature rather than other games, we want the experience to be as original as possible and as such we have made a calculated effort to keep away from other games in the genre. Limbo of the Lost is an experience first and foremost, secondly wrapped up in a game media and genre.
this one's my favourite fromt he interview :)
Wow some of the evidence is so obvious. It's really sad that they would do such a thing. it would be more ok if it wasn't a commercial project.
I do remember the trailer now that I watched it again. And I think I spotted a part of the Hexen title screen in there ¬¬
I've just watched the trailers, I couldn't find them before. I did recognize some games I've played. It's funny how the trailers say " proud to present". Surely most of the people most of known what was going on.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jrr4rV4AaOU
go to 00:46
this will be the most asked question to an indie developer from now on.
Are you a legal Mexican Jalepeno on a stick? wtf.
Heh. No, I had never heard of that. I do note it's still on the publisher's site, listed as for sale...
(http://forum.dead-code.org/Themes/deadcode/images/logo.png)
I actually feel rather sorry for these guys.
If you read this local newspaper article (http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644&slide_id=1&newspage=2&searchkeyword=&searchpage=1), you rather get the impression that these are just three regular blokes who really, really, love games and are simply horribly naive. I really hope that the game gets quietly dropped and none of them get into any serious trouble over this.
Now, I'm quite curious what will the companies that got 'hurt' will do? A lawsuite is a certainty to me, but somehow, these guys, even if they sell their houses in the UK, wouldn't make enough money to cover the expenses. Pulling out the game, simply, is not acceptable either. In all I'm really curious to what's next.
As for the morons who made the game... well... I can understand that a freeware game (such as so many here in AGS), can steal various aspects, but trying to sell it? Come on! :(
EDIT:
Binky:
Quote"Between the three of us we researched, wrote, designed, animated, scripted and developed the whole game from home."
...
Are we sure they did all that? ;)
As I said, I do feel for any freeware developer, but selling it it's a completely other thing, and one must be.... what I said above, I'm sorry to say!
Actually I don't get it. Is this some sort of a publicity stunt or are they just plain stupid? And here I was thinking programming requires brains...
Quote from: Nikolas on Thu 12/06/2008 16:19:30
Binky: Quote"Between the three of us we researched, wrote, designed, animated, scripted and developed the whole game from home."
...
Are we sure they did all that? ;)
As I said, I do feel for any freeware developer, but selling it it's a completely other thing, and one must be.... what I said above, I'm sorry to say!
yes to the researching, writing, design (at least of the story), possibly the animation, the scripting, and the fact that they developed it from home.
Like I said, I don't think that they sat there rubbing their hands together and thought, "hey we can
steal this art... no-one will know" - I imagine that the thought that it was out of order never crossed their minds at all. Hopelessly naive, yes, malicious, no.
So obviously they'd have to repay any earnings, the game would have to be revoked... but geez what harm has been done to the brands in question? None. So I hope that the lawyers stay out of it, the three guys are given a slap on the wrist and a wake up call, and then that's it.
malicious no, not by a long shot! I agree to that. But... naive at best...
Still it's not only returning any earnings, which would make sense, but also the idea of "examplify" in this case. Otherwise, if there's no real harm to them, apart from taking back 'the candy', it's only a matter of time if any 15 year old will start doing it and publishers accepting it.
And even, if the developers have nothing wrong in their mind, which I do believe is true actually, the publishers is a different story! And the publishers should've known better. Oblivion is not some obscure little game, downloadable from... Zimbaboue, it's one of the most mainstream games, that sold millions probably...
This is indeed one of the fastest ways to complicate your life in very little time.
What did they think?
"Come on, no one will realize that we ripped half of the game's content from the most famous commercial games sold today!"
Maybe it's all a big coincidence... :P
Quote from: Oliwerko on Thu 12/06/2008 17:06:33
"Come on, no one will realize that we ripped half of the game's content from the most famous commercial games sold today!"
I'd say it's more along the lines of
"Would our limited consumer base really
care?" -- I imagine they figured a little game like theirs would be barely noticed anyway. In regards to
the law, it's bad, but as a gamer, it wouldn't really make a difference to me how much of the art is stolen. Oblivion's backdrops aren't all that distinctive... it's really just a typical medieval-fantasy world which could be found in any game. Wouldn't ruin the immersion or anything.
It would ruin the immersion for me.. I'd stop thinking about the task at hand in the game and start thinking about the ripped backgrounds. I'm then thinking about how the game was made and not how my character will get out of Limbo.
I think I read a preview on Limbo of the Lost in an AMIGA magazine. Jesus.
*ManicMatt's "Limbo" has nothing to do with "Limbo of the Lost"*
Odd that so many people here frown upon using non-original resources.
Or is it that AND selling the product too.
I do feel a bit bad for those guys. They use an engine which they didn't make for coding (its freeware). And they use other games as a tool for making backgrounds (they don't hack it or pirate it, they just make screenshots).
I don't feel bad that their crappy commercial game is now a total flop. Think twice and then again before going on a commecial venture.
Quote from: jetxl on Thu 12/06/2008 19:21:07
....they use other games as a tool for making backgrounds (they don't hack it or pirate it, they just make screenshots).
I don't know what hacking/pirating refers to in this situation. This is quite obviously an instance of plagiarizing. In 4th grade I was told again and again that there were severe punishments for plagiarizing. I remember an assignment to copy definitions from the back of the book and I went so far as to change the wording. ( They knocked my grade down to a B for doing so, lol )
Video games: While there are artists who plagiarize and credit the original author ( remakes for example ), this Limbo of the Lost seems quite shameless and tries to earn a profit. So damn straight they should be punished. I didn't get that B in 4th grade for nothing.
Likewise, to let these guys off the hook would be to discredit everything Mods and team are doing with Fountain of Youth. Original artwork etc.
Quote from: CaptainBinky on Thu 12/06/2008 16:18:19
I actually feel rather sorry for these guys.
If you read this local newspaper article (http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644&slide_id=1&newspage=2&searchkeyword=&searchpage=1), you rather get the impression that these are just three regular blokes who really, really, love games and are simply horribly naive.
Heh yeah, I can't decide about this. On the one hand, they're three middle-aged men who may simply have not understood that using screenshots from other games as their backgrounds was illegal; but on the other hand, being middle-aged, they should have had enough common sense to realise that it was likely to get them into trouble.
I wonder how they managed to generate such interest from publishers, though? They must have done one hell of a good marketing job to get so many publishers interested in releasing a point-and-click adventure.
Quote from: Nikolas on Thu 12/06/2008 16:36:35
And even, if the developers have nothing wrong in their mind, which I do believe is true actually, the publishers is a different story! And the publishers should've known better. Oblivion is not some obscure little game, downloadable from... Zimbaboue, it's one of the most mainstream games, that sold millions probably...
I'm not a lawyer, but I think they'll get in troubles too; serious troubles, the kind of troubles that make you file for bankruptcy.
Quote
So obviously they'd have to repay any earnings, the game would have to be revoked... but geez what harm has been done to the brands in question? None. So I hope that the lawyers stay out of it, the three guys are given a slap on the wrist and a wake up call, and then that's it.
Mhhhh, I don't know if Britain allows personal bankruptcy (edit: I remember there is, and it's what happened to David Irving after losing a big lawsuit), but they'll get to something similar too. I admire your attitude and words, but you can't just let a man steal something and then just get away with returning only the
profits.
Quote from: Pumaman on Thu 12/06/2008 19:43:42
Heh yeah, I can't decide about this. On the one hand, they're three middle-aged men who may simply have not understood that using screenshots from other games as their backgrounds was illegal; but on the other hand, being middle-aged, they should have had enough common sense to realise that it was likely to get them into trouble.
I read that article and it seemed a bit naive. I think these guys do enjoy video games but that this project was more about making money. So someone probably *tried* to draw all the graphics and quickly realized how hard it was. So stealing one image quickly led to stealing all the images... with the intent being to release the game as quickly as possible and pray that noone notices.
Just a theory, but these guys seriously underestimated their audience.
Gotta love how he posted this at the Wintermute forums (http://forum.dead-code.org/index.php?topic=2904.msg18305#msg18305) just over a week ago. Apparently they ran out of games to rip:
QuoteHi, I am on the look out for a 2D/3D background artist for the sequel to LIMBO OF THE LOST. This is a % of royalty position for the right person. [...] if you can construct in 3D using an editor like Unreal 3 etc all the better.
Now people are actually joining the Wintermute forums just to poke fun at the guy. Quick, someone get themselves into an embarassing legal mess so AGS will not be forgotten!
Quote from: GarageGothic on Thu 12/06/2008 20:15:31
Quick, someone get themselves into an embarassing legal mess so AGS will not be forgotten!
Where's Disco when you need him?
:=
If Steve Bovis is the guy in the middle of this picture (http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644&slide_id=1&newspage=2&searchkeyword=&searchpage=1), which seems likely as he looks a lot like this guy (http://www.wardandpartners.co.uk/branch-directory/branch-details.asp?BranchID=142) who shares his names and also resides in Kent. Could they both be identical to THIS Steve Bovis (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=are&n=24257) give or take a few pounds? If so, I guess we know where the art budget went.
Oh my, isn't google-stalking fun?
Edit: Oh, and apparently he kicked ass at the Martial Arts Summer Camp (http://www.karate-maidstone.org/clubnews.htm). Maybe that's how he lost weight?
And some blokes do a whole quality game from scratch and make it freeware....
They were naive.. maybe, but clearly they wanted to make money with that game, easy money I'd say to that. And it took them 10 years to make such game, wtf??? Sounds like plain stupidity.
Quote from: jetxl on Thu 12/06/2008 19:21:07
Odd that so many people here frown upon using non-original resources.
Or is it that AND selling the product too.
The issue (at least to me) isn't that they're using non-original resources, but that they're claiming that they
are original. There is a lot to be said for fair use, parody and so forth in several circumstances, but all of it starts with being honest about it.
Also, selling other people's stuff for money is a big no-no.
This story really is awesome. It boggles the mind.
I'm so glad people like this exist. :)
Quote from: radiowaves on Thu 12/06/2008 21:01:20
And it took them 10 years to make such game, wtf???
It sounds like they imagined doing it a long time ago for the Amiga but lacked the resources and time. (They each have day jobs right?) Now fast forward a few years where there are programs like Photoshop and AGS (and whatever engine they used) and making a video game was just a matter of programming and creating graphics. All the hardest challenges they faced 10 years ago were gone.
Problem is they were still pretty lazy about making graphics.
I don't think there's any way someone could be in the game making business and be so incredibly oblivious to copyright laws, so I'm chalking this up to pure coincidence.
A bunch of dudes in their 30's hitting keys at random for an infinite amount of time will almost surely produce a game that looks suspiciously like Thief 3.
It's not that it looks suspiciously like Thief 3, but that it looks exactly like Thief 3 (and Oblivion and some other games). If you notice (in the screenshots ildu provided), the window-grill design is exactly the same. The staircase railing is exactly the same. The number of books, and the angle is exactly the same. As if someone took a screenshot, and painted a few things over it.
...Unless you were kidding about your last comment.
Quote from: Babar on Sat 14/06/2008 10:52:44...Unless you were kidding about your last comment.
He was :D.
Btw, more like in their 50's than their 30's.
What's the latest?
I hope these guys lose some big time bucks. Since they basically set out to exploit amateur videogame making.
I'm in two minds about this.
On the one hand, it's obvious they knew what they were doing. But on the other, I don't really see the need to drag them across hot coals. They've been caught, their game has been withdrawn, and if the parties involved decide to take legal action then so be it. They'll never make another game, and we can all get on with our lives.
I don't think the indie game scene's reputation has been hurt by this; anymore than it's been hurt by the myriad of crap games people sell every day.
I've read threads around the net where people are basically calling for these guys to be pulled apart by wild horses.
People need to calm down.
And publishers like G2 Games and Tri-Synergy (both hardly stalwarts of quality in general) obviously need to stop blind-buying their releases.
I'm just sticking with this story until I hear Steve Bovis' explanation. Judging by his lame excuse for the multiple-identity postings at GameBoomers and Just Adventure when the game came out, it's going to be pretty pathic - but probably also quite entertaining.
Edit: Oh, now the folks over at NeoGaf discovered that even the abandoned version of LoL on the Amiga used ripped graphics. At least back then they made the effort of a paintover, but the similarity between the lines in the brickwork can't be a coincidence:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/33coqs4.gif)
Pathetic and entertaining are almost never mutually exclusive... Unless you're one of the parties involved.
Ah thanks for finding an old Amiga screenshot, saved me going through Amiga Action magazines in the attic to find them to show you guys!
I think I actually prefer the main character's Amiga style to the new one! Apart from that arse, what happened there?
...but is the game itself, assuming it's made of 100% original art, any good? Just Adventure gave it a B (http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/LimboOfTheLost/LotL.shtm) before they realized what was going on (and changed it to F)
I wouldn't be surprised if they remade the graphics and attempted to re-release the game. I guess I can expect everything from these guys. It would definitely not be a wise idea, because of all the negativity now associated with the game.
I feel sorry for them. I can imagine them three, going together to an expensive restaurant with their wives to celebrate their "success" when the game finally went into sale. It was a brilliant plan and they would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling reviewers!
I haven't played it, but that "B" sounded like a very generous score, given how crap and boring it looks in footage I've seen. I'd like to see PC Gamer review it, or some other published magazine!
Going slightly off topic, I'm not surprised at Just Adventure's rating. I find Just Adventure, and to a lesser extent Adventure Gamers, are usually generous in their ratings, as opposed to the "mainstream" gaming media.
AGON: The Lost Sword of Toledo gains an "A" rating from Just Adventure, whereas PC Gamer, PC Zone, and PC Format all rated it below 40%, even going as far as to call it "painful" and "tedious".
As for Limbo of the Lost, it really did look incredibly boring.
To be fair, JA and AG review from the point of view of an adventure gamer. PC Gamer and the like cater to a more console-centric audience.
Anyway, I find the team's behavior pretty darn shameful. I feel bad for the publisher, who will get a lot of undeserved flak over this. I admired what they did with Ghost in the Sheet. A publisher that allows developers to keep the rights to their games is rare.
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Tue 17/06/2008 20:54:15
To be fair, JA and AG review from the point of view of an adventure gamer. PC Gamer and the like cater to a more console-centric audience.
Well, I'm speaking solely of the UK editions of PC Gamer/Zone/Format, US gaming magazines being another kettle of fish, and they are anything
but console-centric.
They have also given average to high marks to (and featured demos of on their coverdisc) such adventures as Telltales Sam and Max, Overclocked, and numerous indie adventures (including the Blackwell Games ;)). Just this month, PC Gamer has a full page feature about AGS and the AGS community, praising the program for helping keep the genre alive, and decrying the lack of large publisher/developer support for the genre itself. And every month their freeware sections are overflowing with AGS games.
You also raise another point, Dave, that I'd like to address in general:
I'm tired of the defense of sub-par games by the adventure community, both amateur and professional, simply because only adventure players will "get" them. If JA and AG are anything to go by, the average adventure fan is an insular anal-retentive, who fears and abhors any deviation from a set of well-worn criteria in the games they play.
I approach games of all genres from a single viewpoint...that of a gamer.
To be brutally honest, I wouldn't trust 75% of positive commercial reviews from inside the adventure scene.
I apologise for straying off topic once again, and I apologise if this seems like a rant. And I apologise to Dave if it seems like I'm jumping on him. :)
Still off topic.. but then I think Limbo of the lost has pretty much been covered anyway..
This reminds of the last days of the Amiga, when publishers stopped sending their crap games to Amiga Power because they knew it'd get a bad review. AP would literally pop down to the shops to buy the shit game so they could review it and give it that 25% review score it deserved.
I think we're missing the important question here.
If this happens again, what do we call it?
Pulling a Limbo? Majesticizing?
I'm up for suggestions.
Huge nerd for knowing this, *sigh*, However!
This is VERY much like and incident back when I was 8 or 9. I was really into a game called chex quest (check it out, its a total conversion of Doom distributed with chex cereal in 96')
Anyway, the producers of chex quest, Digital Cafe, released a sequel, chex quest 2.
Now, anyone who has modded Doom knows, making your own levels is actually pretty easy.
Rumors that the company began work on the infamous 'chex quest 3' spread.
Soon, chex quest 3 was released, but as a 'fan game' and not official.
Many fans of Doom quickly picked up on:
*Many levels had the exact same layout with different textures
*Many levels were identical to Doom fan-made levels
*Perhaps the most ridiculous and obvious: The game contained graphics from, get this, an oldschool ghostbusters game.
Copyright infrigement much? o.o
It's amazing people think they can pull these things off.
Hmmm There aren't much information from the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chex_Quest) but we have this:
QuoteA fanmade sequel, Chex Quest 3 was also finished, and is available from Home of the Underdogs. This sequel's components, however, were all downloaded from the Digital Café website (now defunct), and the "authors" did nothing but compile them.
If this is true, my guess was Digital Cafe ceased the development of CQ3 when it's halfway done, and the development files of the game used placeholder graphics and levels which were from everywhere (this is quite common practice I think). If the game was to be completed they might have changed more stuff, but it was not, and the 'fans" just compiled the uncompleted game. Though IMO as it's a "fan" game I think most people should be less bothered by "borrowed" materials (especially for non-commercial ones).
Quote from: Gilbot V7000a on Thu 19/06/2008 05:15:15
Hmmm There aren't much information from the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chex_Quest) but we have this:
QuoteA fanmade sequel, Chex Quest 3 was also finished, and is available from Home of the Underdogs. This sequel's components, however, were all downloaded from the Digital Café website (now defunct), and the "authors" did nothing but compile them.
If this is true, my guess was Digital Cafe ceased the development of CQ3 when it's halfway done, and the development files of the game used placeholder graphics and levels which were from everywhere (this is quite common practice I think). If the game was to be completed they might have changed more stuff, but it was not, and the 'fans" just compiled the uncompleted game. Though IMO as it's a "fan" game I think most people should be less bothered by "borrowed" materials (especially for non-commercial ones).
While I'm certain materials and resources were taken without permission by other places than just digital cafe' for CQ3, I agree completely, non-commercial use isn't nearly as bad as blatent plaigarism for profit.
Quote from: Domithan on Thu 19/06/2008 05:52:40
While I'm certain materials and resources were taken without permission by other places than just digital cafe' for CQ3, I agree completely, non-commercial use isn't nearly as bad as blatent plaigarism for profit.
Hehe, did anybody read that part of the article where they basically describe that scene in every movie where the main character is approached by his good buddy with a money making scheme? It's like Weekend At Bernies:
"Hey buddy, I know a way that we can make LOADS of money! All we have to do is.... _________"
*in this case fill the blank with "plagiarize tons of commercial video games."
ColdPlaygiarism (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/the-song-they-didnt-write-coldplay-are-accused-of-plagiarism-by-american-band-849992.html)
This looks a bit like a publicity stunt to me.
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Thu 19/06/2008 03:40:53
Pulling a Limbo?
NO!!
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=29620.0 (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=29620.0)
As you can see, I ripped my graphics straight from Fallout 3.
Hmm "Pulling a limbo" or "Losing a Limbo" ("Looks like someone lost their limbo")
to lose at limbo is to fall on your ass right? Or touch the pole... we're getting somewhere here.
Remember Turrican? a total-rip off out of anything, even its cover is a ripoff from a Manowar album.
You leave Turrican alone! It was a classic! The cover was "inspired" by Manowar! ;)
Interesting to see this reach the mainstream media:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2008/06/19/dlgame119.xml
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/18/limbo_lost_saga/
well, you know what they say, no publicity is bad publicity for adventure games, right? ... Right?
Now that I think of it, the player character reminds me a lot of Luther, from Lands of Lore 2... :=
I can't believe that people are calling for lenience on this. Fair use and parody are one thing; these people took the assets and intellectual property of a wide array of other (vastly superior) games and solid it as their own. If they'd made a crap game and sold it, that would be one thing; they are taking the work of other people, claiming it as their own, and profiting from it, without offering any sort of recompense to the actual authors. How is this not a terrible thing to be doing?
Furthermore, what is this going to do to the reputations of other, similar games? Are publishers going to be as interested in accepting titles from small, independent, unknown developers anymore?
Great point. For all we know, publishers will see AGS game makers us as liabilities from now on. Assholes who just lie and say everything is their own content ruin the overall credibility for the rest of us.
Quote from: evenwolf on Fri 20/06/2008 12:33:15
Great point. For all we know, publishers will see AGS game makers us as liabilities from now on. Assholes who just lie and say everything is their own content ruin the overall credibility for the rest of us.
But, it was made with Wintermute... another reason why AGS is superior. None of the games in our DB... oh ;)
Don't worry guys, I'll be soon releasing my own commercial game using AGS. Here is an in-game screenshot:
(http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/25/fallout3.jpg)
I made everything in this game myself, the graphics, music, and the engine itself from scratch.
Hahah, Limbo of the Lost would be good inspiration for a Photoshop Phriday.
I propose a name change for photoshop friday to: LIMBOSHOP LOSTDAY.
This is hilarious. Evidently, even the concept art from ten years ago was stolen. The image for Grunger was a traced off of a D&D expansion, and another sketch is a rip off of a character from Legend, an obscure (but very good) fantasy/adventure movie from the 80's. This just keeps getting better and better!
And less and less surprising.
From Majestic's official response:
"In response to the shocking notification that some alleged unauthorized copyrighted materials submitted by sources external to the development team have been found within the PC game Limbo of the Lost..."
Translation:
"It was...um...that guy from...Canada...who we hired to do...something...But it wasn't us!"
Shovel/hole/deeper.
*Back from short holiday*
So erm.. what did they make themselves? The end credits?
Quote from: LimpingFish on Mon 30/06/2008 19:21:45Translation:
"It was...um...that guy from...Canada...who we hired to do...something...But it wasn't us!"
Shovel/hole/deeper.
Well, it's the next best excuse one can figure out after "we didn't think anyone would notice" or "we didn't think it was that big of a deal". Did they actually specify who this so-called external source is?
Also, check this out http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Limbo_of_the_Lost_Wiki
A collection of all the comparisons.
Quote from: Paper Carnival on Tue 01/07/2008 21:34:27
Also, check this out http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Limbo_of_the_Lost_Wiki
(http://images.wikia.com/lotl/images//7/71/474_pixelbitchyegods.jpg)
hahahahaha, the snow they just painted over looks such crap.
(http://images.wikia.com/lotl/images//a/a1/LotlBonus-43.jpg)
Quote from: Cino on Thu 12/06/2008 16:23:17
Actually I don't get it. Is this some sort of a publicity stunt or are just plain stupid? And here I was thinking programming requires brains...
Quote from: some guy at http://www.gamespot.com/news/6192856.htmlThat would be because if you look at the forms for Wintermute (the engine for the game) Steve Bovis requested assistance numerous times on help for scripting the code for the game. So they (Majestic Studios, three people) could not even program the game.
So they ripped: Backgrounds, Menu Art, Models, Audio, Video, Concept Art (wtf ???) and who knows what else. Add that they couldn't even fully program the game themselves.
Now I only feel sorry for Tri Synergy studios. They're the ones who lose, and they have no fault at all (unless they knew about this, something which we all doubt)
I hope Majestic Studios will end up in Limbo until they make the game from scratch, using their own art, to redeem themselves.
The fact that they were ripping off designs and art back in the '90s, for the Amiga version, makes their claims of an "external" party being responsible for their current situation a little weak.
To say the least.
To be honest, I don't think that they ripped this one graphic off in the Amiga version. Sure, the lines are exactly the same, but the colours are totally different, basically they used the outline and redrew the rest.
Not to forget that the Amiga version was never comercially released so we don't know if they would have replaced the image in the final version.
I say this because I'm not sure if Steve Bovis was already that deranged at the time or if it came with the years, whatever. Also, the art direction and the concept arts looked a lot better back then.
You know, those pixelly graphics are a lot easier to accomplish by a single guy than a big bunch of pre-rendered 3D art.
It may be that he ripped those graphics off since he knew he could never accomplish them in a reasonable time, and with a halfway good looking result. He would be right there.
But the puzzles are the high point.
You somehow have to mix a liquid that looks green as a result. You have to give saffron, which is yellow, into water, so it turns green. Uh-huh.........wait, WHAT? WATER ISN'T BLUE!!!
Really, absolutely crazy...
it IS blue, you fool!
(http://www.montereybay.com/creagrus/FurSea_N-MMeyers-9Fb03.jpg)
See? >:(
Seriously now, you missed this part (http://"http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Concept_Art"), and this. (http://"http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Grunger.jpg")
Notice how the concept art is also ripped off and how it was used in the game. We only have a few Amiga screens, and two of them have plagiarized material. And they're in-game screenshots, I doubt they'd replace that for the final product.
It's wonderful how they even released a DVD with the game that has concept art and bonus features. It seems to me they totally overrated themselves.
It's pretty clear to me that as amateur developers they expected their adventure game to go under the radar since they aren't that popular anyway and are only reviewed by fringe magazines and websites (unless they are really good). I think they've gained a lot of unwanted attention.
Dude, there's no way an intelligent fucker would expect EVERY SINGLE PLAYER not to notice one plagiarized image. I mean I would recognize Oblivion just from the shape of the wine bottles in the background. This was not brilliant detective work.
Just someone saying, "Uh, that's not yours." And now its happening thousands of times a day. If these guys are shocked, the shock should be at the fact that they are such idiots. They released that stupid statement shirking responsibility. Even Sandman from Spiderman 3 had a better concocted story than these guys. There's no way to justify their innocence or their ignorance. It's just plain "what did you guys expect?" and then shaking heads. Unbelievable.
Looking at the trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVcqDfJKZo) and screenshots (random example: "You must be of big importantness for them to lock you all up!" (http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/LimboOfTheLost/Snap7.jpg)), it's kind of a shame that it wasn't released. It must have sucked hilariously.
ohw I didnt see those shots from UT2004. I actually know the guy who made the map. It wasn't a commercial project though. But considering that he made it all in his precious spare them it's pretty awfull.
I really really want to know what will happen to these idiots. :)
Quote from: Paper Carnival on Wed 02/07/2008 00:27:36
Seriously now, you missed this part (http://"http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Concept_Art"), and this. (http://"http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Grunger.jpg")
Notice how the concept art is also ripped off and how it was used in the game. We only have a few Amiga screens, and two of them have plagiarized material. And they're in-game screenshots, I doubt they'd replace that for the final product.
It's wonderful how they even released a DVD with the game that has concept art and bonus features. It seems to me they totally overrated themselves.
Well, for more there's still the demo (http://hol.abime.net/4305)....I'm too lazy to configure an Amiga Emulator for it but it's certainly interesting enough out of morbid curiosity.........I ask myself if the writing was already that bad back then! From the screenshots it looks like it had a parser......man, if they were as lazy back then as with the released version where the character says mainly "Hm......interesting" when you command the character to look at an object or says "That doesn't work" when you didn't guess the right solution then it must have been even worse! There you probably had to guess the right words additionally. Look, yes; examine, no. Ugh.... *shudder*
Quote from: Paper Carnival on Tue 01/07/2008 22:30:37Now I only feel sorry for Tri Synergy studios. They're the ones who lose, and they have no fault at all (unless they knew about this, something which we all doubt)
I have only been keeping up with this topic a little bit ... but if Tri Synergy Studios is the company that produced/distributed the game for them they are
every bit as much at fault (in my opinion).
I would
never consider [commercially] releasing a game for somebody without thoroughly investigating and testing it to make sure it's legit.
That's like Bush wining, "I received bad intelligence!" trying to lay the blame off on somebody else.
Indeed. A number of these small producer/distributors seem desperate for product, and sign pretty much anything. Something like this was bound to happen, eventually.
To this extent, though? I don't think anybody could have predicted that. And Tri-Synergy really should has spotted it earlier.
Most publishers prepare for this kind of thing. A contract will usually stipulate that the work you're giving them is your own and not stolen. So that way if you do steal art/assets the it's you who gets sued by the copyright holder and not them. In addition, the publisher can sue your butt for breach of contract if they are really feeling vindictive. I doubt any publisher could have prepared for THIS, though. It's totally unprecedented.
I can't believe someone made a wiki about this. This is the biggest thing to happen to adventure gaming since... well, anything.
Either way, that's a crapload of backgrounds. Looks boring as hell!
The publishers MUST have known. It'll definately be interesting to find out what happens to these clowns.
Judging by Tri-Synergy's catalogue, they probably don't follow mainstream games like Oblivion or Thief very closely.