Wow yesterday I saw metallica live in concert!
It was AWESOME!!! And even better it was
a 13 band collabaration! SO i saw simple plan
and collective soul and seether and the list
goes on!
Just wanted to share it with you guys...
BTW I think they are in capetown next!
I went to see David Hasselhoff in concert recently, it may havee been the greatest thing ever in my life. One thing may have made it better, if he were to collaborate with William Shatner.
I'm seeing 'tallica in June at download festival. Along with a bunch of other ace bands.
Quote from: Chicky on Sun 19/03/2006 12:41:53
I'm seeing 'tallica in June at download festival. Along with a bunch of other ace bands.
paradox! metallica is not ace!
I have fond memories of Metallica ... but ever since that whiny pussy Lars made such a cry-baby rant about mp3 and how they only made 50 million, instead of 60 million, because of illegale downloads, I could give a shit about them.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 15:02:16
I have fond memories of Metallica ... but ever since that whiny pussy Lars made such a cry-baby rant about mp3 and how they only made 50 million, instead of 60 million, because of illegale downloads, I could give a shit about them.
hmm, well, I dont like the fact that people download music instead of buying it.
I mean, if you like a band, you should support them by buying their cds right?
Or am I wrong here??
Anyway, I dont like Metallica anymore, likes the old material alot better :).
Quote from: Peder Johnsen on Sun 19/03/2006 15:42:05hmm, well, I dont like the fact that people download music instead of buying it.
I mean, if you like a band, you should support them by buying their cds right?
Or am I wrong here??
1) when they stop charging $15 for a 3 cent piece of plastic I
might start buying CDs again
2) most bands on a label see almost no money from CD sales, it's why they tour, and I go see bands I care about when they come to town.
But that's not what this thread is about :)
Now I'm off to download all Metallica's albums so I can never listen to them...
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 15:57:18
1) when they stop charging $15 for a 3 cent piece of plastic I might start buying CDs again
I hope you reallly don't mean $ as in dollars, because if you do, that's just bloody cheap compared to what we pay. Now if they were as cheap here I would buy all the records I wanted without a moment of hesitation. Though one thing is certain, this pile of records would never have any Metallic albums in it.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 15:57:18
1) when they stop charging $15 for a 3 cent piece of plastic I might start buying CDs again
I see what you mean, but I dissagree.
I dont mind paying what it costs for cds here in Norway (Its exspensive here), cause THE MUSIC on the plastic is worth the money to me.
Though it is exspensive.. I remember cds costed 149NKR (around 16Euro) a few years back, now they cost 199NKR (around 24Euro).
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 15:02:16
I have fond memories of Metallica ... but ever since that whiny pussy Lars made such a cry-baby rant about mp3 and how they only made 50 million, instead of 60 million, because of illegale downloads, I could give a shit about them.
geez I have a different way of looking at this. A band stays famous for alot shorter time than your working carreer. Hence they need to make more money they see less of the money due to costs involved etc.
So him moaning about it to me was fine. I mean lets face it if you have have been downsized in your job and had to take a cut in pay your going to be well in your words "whiny pussy" that moans about not earning 15G but 10G's right?
I dont like illegal downloads I dont like the act that people dont have to pay for music I did! And I also hate the fact that they then sell the illegal music at the flea market every weekend.
Its as good as stealing a car or a stereo or even the cd out of the store!
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 15:57:18
1) when they stop charging $15 for a 3 cent piece of plastic I might start buying CDs again
A CD is a luxury item. In my opinion they can charge whatever they like for it. You're not paying for the plastic - you're paying for what's on it. It's the same situation as computer games.
I understand that Metallica doesn't need that extra $10m, but there are struggling bands out there that perhaps do need the cash. A band isn't going to tour if no-one buys their songs, either because they don't have the money or because the record company doesn't think it'll be profitable.
Quote
Now I'm off to download all Metallica's albums so I can never listen to them...
When did it become ok for a moderator on these forums to advocate piracy?
Quote from: Obi
One thing may have made it better, if he were to collaborate with William Shatner.
Wow, that would be awesome. Leonard Nimoy too.
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Sun 19/03/2006 17:35:28A CD is a luxury item. In my opinion they can charge whatever they like for it.
I agree. But when they charge 1000 times the cost of producing the CD, I'm not going to pay for it. If they want to compete with mp3 [free] downloads they need to
drastically lower the cost per CD. Or, I'm not sorry to say, WAY more people will continue to download them for free. It's just a simple fact.
The record labels can continue to come up with (spend money) on anti-piracy which then they throw the cost off on their customers by upping the price of their merchandise. And then, 10 minutes after the new-fangled-impossible to crack anit-piracy CDs hit the market, a 15 year old kid in his parent's basement cracks it and it's like it never was. Then the downloading continues.
They, the record companies, aren't going to stop it. They can't. They need to realize this, stop pissing off their intended customers, and lower their prices. I'm not an economist by ANY stretch of the imagination but even to me this is a painfully obvious fact.
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Sun 19/03/2006 17:35:28A band isn't going to tour if no-one buys their songs, either because they don't have the money or because the record company doesn't think it'll be profitable.
Then the record companies should lower the prices :) I'm not trying to be argumentative at all Steve, really I'm not. I appreciate your opinion completely. It's just that the VAST majority of people aren't going to fork out 15 bucks for something they can get for free at no risk to them.
Do I download mp3? Of course I do. I'm not cheap either. I'm just fundementally opposed to getting hosed like that. So I don't buy CDs.
Here's how I look at it:
(using simplified numbers)
Cost per CD = 15 USD : Yearly sales = 100,000 units : Earnings = 1.5 million USD
Cost per CD = 5 USD : Yearly sales = 1,000,000 units : Earnings = 5 million USD
If they lower the cost enough, they'd increase their sales by a factor of 10. I know there's a lot more involved than just selling (promotions, tours, marketting, etc) but still. Lower cost per CD = more CD sales.
Def with Darth on this one.
The real tragedy is the shortsightedness of the record execs. They need to establish firmer lines of communication with their consumers. At Napster's height of popularity, they failed to recognize the underlying consumer behavior behind the illegal song sharing(even though it practically punched them in the face). People pirate the music not so much because they want it free, but because they are dissatisfied with the current model.
Instead of realizing this huge push for change and developing a new way to serve the consumers, the record execs spent millions in lawyer's fees to individually bring many of these people into court. Generally speaking, suing your customers isn't the best way to build a positive perception of your brand.
The iTunes model is a step in the right direction. However, I recently read that Steve Jobs wrote some of these execs a furious letter in response to their plan to raise the prices of downloadable songs. (They want to charge something like 2 bucks per song).
It demonstrates a misunderstanding of basic business principles on the execs' part. All business starts with a customer, not a product.
EDIT: As far as Metallica goes, they suck anus. Any band that takes a 7 year break (or whatever) from playing to go on a crusade against their listeners, can stay off my list. They've always been a pretty sissy band anyways; they always complain about other bands stealing their style or whatever.
Darth, I understand your arguments.
However, record companies are businesses, and I suspect that they have "run the numbers" and come to a different conclusion. Do you really believe that they are just holding the prices high out of spite? Clearly they
think that they will make more money that way.
Quote
Do I download mp3? Of course I do. I'm not cheap either. I'm just fundementally opposed to getting hosed like that. So I don't buy CDs.
No, you're greedy. No-one
needs music. If you want to listen to music, buy it on iTunes, turn on the radio, or whatever. But don't steal it. If you want the record execs to lower prices, write them a letter, or better yet write letters to the bands they represent and explain that you won't pay $15 a CD.
Attempting to legitimize piracy is irresponsible, particularly on a forum where people respect your opinion.
Discussion of software piracy on these forums is against the rules. Why should music piracy be any different? I'm sure you could just as easily say that games companies are charging too much for games.
I buy CD's. I don't download music, illegally or otherwise. The whole Idea of paying for something that you don't physically "own" is still weird to me. I like a product to be made of something tangible, rather than a bunch of ones and zeros. It makes me feel like I've actually got something for my money. But thats another topic.
I also don't use torrents to download ripped movies or music simply because I couldn't be bothered. If I really want to own something, CDs or otherwise, I'd rather own the genuine article. And not for moral reasons either, I just...would.
I do feel the price of most entertainment media (Music CDs, Games, DVDs, etc) to be a little high. Thats why I usually wait a while to make my purchase. You'd be surprised how fast something, in the big retail chains anyway, can be reduced in price. And online stores usually sell things under the recommended retail price anyway.
Saying that, I'm still not adverse to paying for something as soon as it hits the shelves, tho.
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Sun 19/03/2006 21:22:00
No, you're greedy. No-one needs music. If you want to listen to music, buy it on iTunes, turn on the radio, or whatever. But don't steal it.
I
would buy it ... if they lower the cost of CDs or if the cost of the pay-for-download prices lower. Believe me, it's not greed on my part. It's dissatisfaction with
their greedy nature. Whether or not anybody believes that, it's true. I don't mind paying for things I want. What I mind, is being
forced to pay WAY too much.
I understand why they aren't lowering prices. I understand the nature of business is to make money. However, their insistence on leaving the prices so high is driving millions to DL the mp3 for free. You'd just think they'd get their greed infected heads outta their uptight asses and do something about it OTHER than spending millions of dollars to prosecute some 80 year old grandmother whose grandson was downloading from her computer.
They [record labels]
will lose this war they've foolishly chosen to fight. All they accomplish is necessitating the high cost of each CD to cover the cost of fighting the war, alienating their potential customer base, and making people sick of hearing about it. In the end, they will look like the badguys.
When they realize that for every 1 employee they have fighting piracy there are 10,000 against that one person, they might clue in that they need to stop resisting, and get on board. They won't win. If they'd have gotten on board near the time of the Napster craze they'd be making billions of more dollars, rather than losing money every year.
I've said this before: It's like the railroad industry from 100 years ago. If they'd have realized they were in the transportation business, rather than the train business, we'd be driving Santa Fe Explorers and Union Pacific Corvettes rather then Ford and Chevy. The record labels need to realize they are in the music business, NOT the CD business or they'll become nothing. Good riddance I say. If you can't adapt, you become extinct. Way of the world. Look at Kodak ... they have jumped in the deep end of digital photography. Film will die, digital is the future, they realize they are in the photography business, not the film business. They have adapted, and are MUCH more likely to survive now.
I understand totally that CDs (music) are a luxury and that I can choose to buy, or not buy, them. At this time, I choose not to buy them.
Quote from: LimpingFish on Sun 19/03/2006 21:50:24
I buy CD's. I don't download music, illegally or otherwise. The whole Idea of paying for something that you don't physically "own" is still weird to me. I like a product to be made of something tangible, rather than a bunch of ones and zeros. It makes me feel like I've actually got something for my money. But thats another topic.
Is it really another topic though? I agree, and even then I like the artwork (if it's good) and having printed lyrics. (When they actually do. And don't tell em you can get them off the net, i know, but I like them instantly so I can lie on my bed and follow the songs with the words)
On the other hand... soon I might need a seperate room just to fit all my media in..
I just want to say that CDs in Japan cost about $40, and I'm not talking about imports. They're fucking insanely overpriced. Still, I bought 3 on the weekend, which are going to cost me money AGAIN when I have to ship them all back home. I feel I've karmically earned my right to download/rip whatever I want over here. As Darth said, when they start charging realistic prices for CDs, I'll start "supporting" bands properly.
I think the industry ought to just take a good look at itself. Maybe musicians don't NEED millions of dollars. Maybe being a famous singer ought to bring you home a more average wage. I certainly don't give rats if a band I like are driving around in golden cars or commodores.
I too prefer to -own- a physical product, and particularly a well-made one with lots of thought put in. I will always buy a really, really awesome CD that I feel goes above and beyond and is truly a piece of art, but I'm more and more warming up to the idea of just buying music as plain old media, as long as I can pay a small price for it.
EDIT: PARTICULARLY when so many bands these days are putting so little thought into albums. They have one decent single and then the rest might as well be filler. I'll pay for an album that's really worth it, but not for one with one song I like and a bunch of others just made to fill the extra spots. I could buy singles but THOSE are getting more and more ridiculous in price too, and seems like a physical waste of space when I could have the same size CD with lots of music on it, not one with the same song in several different edits and instrumental versions. I personally only listen to music on my laptop anyway (and later, iPod) so CDs are just becoming less and less of a thing I want when I could have the individual tracks I want.
To be honest, what I'm doing lately is checking bands out on youtube.com, watching the filmclips and when I love a song so much I can't stop listening to it, I feel the need to go out and buy the CD (as was the case with the 3 CDs I got this weekend - Monkey Majik and 2 x Southern All Stars CDs - awesomeness).
In fact, I don't know if these guys have broken out of Japan yet, but let me introduce you all to Monkey Majik ^_~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsVWLoE3sd0&search=monkey%20majik
They're a Japanese based band but some of the guys are foreigners and they sing in a mix of English and Japanese. This song is the theme song to the new Monkey series (Saiyuuki) showing in Japan at the moment and as far as I know, will be in other countries soon. I heard it was going to be shown in Australia anyway. It's really cheesy and crappy, but I adore it and lots of that adoration comes specifically from this song. I played it non-stop for hours last night @_@
The filmclip alone is really awesome.
Quote from: Kinoko on Mon 20/03/2006 01:50:02
I just want to say that CDs in Japan cost about $40, and I'm not talking about imports. They're fucking insanely overpriced.
Wow. It's a good thing I don't live in Japan otherwise I'd be broke--I buy lots of CDs. :)
QuoteWow. It's a good thing I don't live in Japan otherwise I'd be broke--I buy lots of CDs.
Super Horneo Bros. and Alice In Pornoland don't count, Geoff :=
Oh, and er, I guess I meant roughly in Aussie dollars. US dollars would be a little less, but still, not much.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 15:57:18
1) when they stop charging $15 for a 3 cent piece of plastic I might start buying CDs again
$15 for music cds? That is ~12â,¬, which is half of what we pay for them here. I can't believe you're bickering over how expensive they are.
Should I move to the US now or later?
www.mp3search.ru
www.allofmp3.com
anybody complains after this of prices I am gona seriously have issues and then just believe your pirates and thieves!
I live in South Africa and I buy from these places my point being is its really cheap if you dont want the actual discs..
So here Darth Mandrab just burn it on your own 3c disk ;)
PS the rand amount to the dollar amount lol is 6-1 ... :(
Quote from: Petteri on Mon 20/03/2006 09:09:17$15 for music cds? That is ~12â,¬, which is half of what we pay for them here. I can't believe you're bickering over how expensive they are
I'm not bickering. Just stating my opinion. It's unfortunate that they're more expensive in other countries, but I don't live there :)
Quote from: Afflict on Mon 20/03/2006 10:47:58www.mp3search.ru
www.allofmp3.com
anybody complains after this of prices I am gona seriously have issues and then just believe your pirates and thieves!
I've heard/seen both those links. They are russian based companies and, yes, they offer reasonable prices. However; 1) I'm not comfortable giving my credit card number to something like that and 2) a lot of the legit mp3 pay-per-download sites claim that they aren't legal.
Whether you get your CD's for 15$ or 40$, it's always gonna be too much when the alternative is to get them for free. I don't believe it's a crusade against the evil RIAA (there is no evil empire), but a matter of people that found an alternative to crappy record collections at the local 7-11 or speciality stores. Music can and should be art as well as factory-line-assembled fodder, and great musicians will always see monetary support. This is what we are hopefully moving towards. A de-industrialization of music, with anyone with a computer having the means and a distribution channel. This makes record labels and their editorial process useless - which is why they are resorting to desperate measures (eg. sueing individuals) to stay in the game.
Certain types of musicians suffer as well, since they cannot make money off the trade between people when they recieve no royalties. They'll live through. Professional studio musicians, gig musicians etc. won't probably suffer as much. People still want to see live shows, music is needed for television etc.
In my opinion, something is wrong about copyright laws, like Tupac or Cobain making songs and money after their deaths.
Music won't die. The industry might, unless it reinvents itself or we enter 1984.
Ah lol, I guess personal preference.
Anyway Know that I am of sober mind I would like you guys to take a look at this... This is a true reflection of the concert if you werent just watching the bands dying of thirst...
www.hellopeter.co.za
Just check under the 5FM BIG CONCERT AND COCA COLA
Please make comments and stuff even if you werent there. I have emailed coca cola big concerts and 5 fm
I like too bitch as much as the next person when my rights get violated.
Write something like I read this and its appauling!!! or something. I duno. You guys figure it out!
Great points, Darth.
Just to reiterate, the record execs are serving us, the consumer. Our buying power supports them (either directly by product purchase or by investment). They need to pander to our needs. If we don't want CDs, they need to adjust, not us.
Why do you think Blockbuster set up an online system to compete with Netflix?
I see the music going completely digital, not just for price or convenience, but for selection.
As Petteri said, your price is like half from ours. Anyway, I don't have much money but I'm sure as hell going to go and buy the New The Flower Kings album when it comes out on 27th. I will be waiting behind the door and when it opens I will buy my 23 euros for the record. It's not always about the music, it's the covers, the official CD, the plastic box, that stuff... but then, there are also things that I wouldn't buy, in fact some of them are coming to me right now ;) But buying some CDs... it's a matter of principle for me
Monkey Majik seem okay Kinoko, but they're too poppy for my tastes!
Since I got the internet and could get my albums at around half the price on average than in the shops I've rarely ever gone into town since. I do wonder about how the shops must suffer. This can be said about many shops though.
I wouldn't wish for CD's to become eradicated in favour of pure digital music. I'd have to print out the artwork and my CD collection would stop growing into the even huger behemoth that it is!
I don't think buying your music at those Russian sites is really any better than downloading off a file sharing service. I'm not too sure that any of that money is going back to the copyright holders. Don't they exploit some loopholes in Russian copyright law, I think they use some sort of a broadcasting license?
People can try to justify it to themselves any way they like, but at the end of the day you download copyrighted music, you're stealing it. I've downloaded quite a bit over the years, but I'm not going to sit there and pretend i'm on any kind of moral highground by doing it.
Also: these are things I am sick of hearing, regarding Metallica: people obsessing over that stupid Napster issue which happened years ago and had no real effect on most people one way or another; people overhyping Cliff Burton's importance to the band; people moaning about the clickity drums on Justice, which are in fact really cool; people moaning about what a sellout piece of crap the Black Album supposedly is; people moaning about the lack of guitar solos on St. Anger, as if having solos would really make all those lame songs any better. Metallica are often pretty great but their fans can all go to hell.
Quote from: PaulSC on Mon 20/03/2006 22:22:57
that stupid Napster issue which happened years ago and had no real effect on most people one way or another
Reeeaaaally....
No real effect?
I never tried to justify downloading music for free. Pirating is illegal, and selling an outdated medium for such a high price is plain stupid. Just because I focused on the latter doesn't mean the former loses any validity.
I have to share my thoughts here (where on other threads I didn't have to but I did anyway ;D)
1. CD prices have not risen for something like 10 years now! At least in Europe they remain almost unchanged, in comparison to everything else!
2. Downloading songs through the net, does suck a little bit, if only for the quality of mp3s and oggs. Unless you can download wave files, but still if you are to download 600 Mb in order to listen to something worthwhile then...
3. CDs are overpriced but it is not just the material that is taken into account Darth.
4. Metallicas' maoning over the lost millions sucked big time!
5. Metallicas' music sucks lately (and by lately I mean anything after the Black Album, which I personally like, but I can understand anybody that says that they don't)
6. I buy CDs! I support the artists and everything related. I would like to be able to supprot the artists more but not the companies. And don't tell me that it's easy to do cause it's not!
What I meant by 'no effect' is that Lars' campaign against napster and file sharing six or seven years ago hasn't prevented anyone from doing it if they want, meaning it's a bit of a petty waste of time for people to carry on grinding their axes over it.
Tend to agree that the band has gone off the rails, though last week I finally bought Load off ebay for a small sum and it turned out to be a pretty enjoyable album, if gruesomely overlong. Reload is totally hit and miss, admittedly. If they'd made a 50 minute single record out of those two they could've made one of their best. They didn't truly lose it until St. Anger in my view.
Quote from: big brother on Mon 20/03/2006 22:43:06
I never tried to justify downloading music for free.
Not directly, but you did agree with DM twice, and DM was definitely trying to justify it. That was misleading. I'm glad you've made your stance clear.
Quote from: PaulSC on Mon 20/03/2006 22:22:57
People can try to justify it to themselves any way they like, but at the end of the day you download copyrighted music, you're stealing it. I've downloaded quite a bit over the years, but I'm not going to sit there and pretend i'm on any kind of moral highground by doing it.
I don't deny that it's considered stealing and I'm not trying to take a moral highground. I think people are getting confused with my point/opinion. I'm simply saying; the prices of CDs are too high and I won't pay that price when there is a MUCH cheaper alternative that they can do NOTHING about. If they value my patronage and want me to continue putting money in their pockets, they need to cut the costs MAJORLY and then I'll get on board. Until that day, they can bugger off and continue to lose this war.
Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 20/03/2006 23:03:413. CDs are overpriced but it is not just the material that is taken into account Darth.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 19/03/2006 18:27:11If they lower the cost enough, they'd increase their sales by a factor of 10. I know there's a lot more involved than just selling (promotions, tours, marketting, etc) but still. Lower cost per CD = more CD sales.
:)
I really do appreciate that some of you don't approve of mp3 downloading. I feel the same way about the prices they charge for CDs. You all don't approve of mp3 download 'cause you think it's stealing, so you don't do it. I don't approve of the cost of CDs 'cause it's highway robbery, so I don't buy them.
Bottom line; the number of people that DL free mp3 will FAR outbalance the number of people who buy CDs. This just isn't, I doubt, going to change. If they record companies want to keep alive, they need to adapt.
Wow must have been sweet, Afflict. I'm seeing them in Cape Town on Saturday ;) Can't wait.
Yeah was prety sweet, kewl your gona love it hope theres enough food and drink! Call and find out if you can take your own stuff. Else youll end up like this...
WWW.HELLOPETER.CO.ZA