London Riots - OR - What's your favourite thing about Hitler?

[Calin Leafshade]

That image is the biggest piece of shit i have yet seen on these fora EDIT (apparently it's forums).

On what planet do students in america not have access to a library?

[WHAM]

Let me remind you, once again, that criminals are the same species as you and me.

We agree to disagree on this point.

[voh]

Wow, there are some opinions here that are, well, bat-shit insane. Criminals a different species as us? Really?

Well.. Good internet argument you're having here.

*walks away to eat a sandwich*

[Creed Malay]

Let me remind you, once again, that criminals are the same species as you and me.

We agree to disagree on this point.

But *you're* a criminal WHAM. You confessed to speeding a few pages back. Speeding is a highly irresponsible crime. I know several people who have lost loved ones because of it.
YOUR SORT who do it are clearly dangerous animals. Maybe if we removed one of your testicles, and told you if you did it again, we'd remove the other one, you'd be encouraged to become a Proper Human Being?

Hey, descending into insanity in debates is fun!

[Khris]

Seriously WHAM, what you're posting here is bordering on being Poe (so absurd it's indistinguishable from parody).

The biggest tabloid here in Germany always acts as inane as you whenever a convicted fellow tries to maintain their human rights, for instance getting compensation for threats of torture, or wanting to get a job or some other outrageous effrontery those third-class apes don't deserve.
They do this to sell their shit to stupid people, so on a level I can sort of respect them, but you aren't gaining anything from this so I must assume that you're actually having these dark age authoritarian viewpoints. I feel sad for you, seriously.

But I guess all is well as long as you don't found a party or something.

[WHAM]

But I guess all is well as long as you don't found a party or something.

Hell, in Finland there is this thing caled "piraattipuolue", which is basically a party for software pirates who "defend people's rights".

LINK: http://www.piraattipuolue.fi/english

I know one of the guys leading a group here in Tampere, he's actually hoping to get RID of copyright laws as "they hamper peoples freedom, man". A man actively participating in a legit party in Finland is seriously saying "we should not have to pay for Windows".

Also, one of the candidates of this party for the cabinet is a pornstar who actually filmed and distributed an election porn flick on the internet (google it if you dare: "vaaliporno 2011", it's so ridiculous its funny!).

Me starting a political party in this country doesn't seem that far fetcheched now, does it? I'll have to look into that in a few years.

[Igor Hardy]

Hey, that's a cool sounding party!

Even PETA is starting their own porn website, not to mention they ripped off Super Meat Boy a while ago.

Porn, indie games and pirates are simply in vogue right now.

EDIT: To be clear: I didn't read through even one page of this thread.

[InCreator]

So if it's "worse in the EU" but kids do get free healthcare in your country then I guess Estonian prisoners are given some kind of super-expensive immortality serum?

Sort of... While kids are getting all the misery of studying and struggle to become everything capitalist society demands of them, prisons have given birth to a whole subculture of people who spend years there, get out for a week or two, and commit crime to get back in again. They have no obligation to donate anything to society and all they do is milk it for their own welfare. Capitalist society is a bit guilty in this: a former criminal finds really hard time to find any honest work, but most don't even try. Prison life is simply too comfortable (thanks to piece of shit hippie EU "standards" that were imposed on us upon joining) to leave it and join the struggle of ordinary man.

The worse the criminal, the more likely he'll be on this path of being society's burden, because worst criminals have easier time to make his life in prison good.

To me, it feels even more absurd than that image or immortality serum. The worse the scum, the worst should be his life for this. But it's all upside down somehow.

So yeah, thanks hippies. Fight the good fight!

[Snarky]

I completely disbelieve that there are people (apart from maybe a small number of mostly harmless wretches in desperate conditions: junkies, drunks and homeless people at the end of their rope) who prefer the "comfy" prison life to freedom, commit crimes in order to go back to jail, and sit there "milking it for their own welfare". That's a paranoid fantasy.

There's a book out now that makes a compelling argument that the modern prison system is more brutal and dehumanizing than the old "cruel and unusual" forms of punishment: flogging, stocks, amputation and so on. Think about it. What would you prefer: Five years in a US prison, or twenty lashes? I know I would choose the whipping. (And it's not just the US; conditions in many European prison systems are deplorable.)

[NsMn]

I don't know people who would become students just for the benefits either. One studies for education, just like a prisoner is in prison to fulfil his sentence.

[Cuiki]

I don't know people who would become students just for the benefits either.

Heh, I know plenty.

Haven't read the whole discussion, but from what I did, it seems pretty fucked up. Just to hang on this thought for a moment:

No we aren't! [a social species that instinctively works together] Human beings tend to only work for their own personal good. Laws are in place to ensure (...)

Even if people work for their own good, surely an important part of their own welfare is a chance to live in a hospitable society, which basically means instinctively working together? Just because your narrow-mindedness doesn't seem to let you grasp certain concepts such as common sense, empathy, a sense of morality that isn't dictated by the laws, and counter-effects that fear and oppression can have on people; it doesn't mean they aren't present. Laws are of course essential to establish some level of control over the masses, but you're just being unreasonable here. Extremist solutions like yours can never work because they're against human nature, and something is bound to break sooner or later in such regimes.

We must fight to keep our society from collapsing back into a wilderness, to keep it civilized and hospitable.

You said that yourself. But your idea of a perfect world, or whatever, is worlds apart from being hospitable (or civilised, for that matter). It sends shivers down my spine just thinking of living in a place like that, and I'm not a criminal, obviously.

What I really wanted to say, though, is that people in this thread keep offering you all sorts of facts, and you're just ignoring a great deal of them?

This whole thing isn't moving anywhere, really. Kinda feels like one of Icey's threads.
In fact, if Icey is defined as a troll (go figure), then I shall declare you a troll as well.

[InCreator]

I completely disbelieve that there are people (apart from maybe a small number of mostly harmless wretches in desperate conditions: junkies, drunks and homeless people at the end of their rope) who prefer the "comfy" prison life to freedom, commit crimes in order to go back to jail, and sit there "milking it for their own welfare". That's a paranoid fantasy.

No it's not. I have a relative who gets out, kisses ground and hugs freedom and vows to never go back.... then he tries to find work and listens his mom nagging for few weeks, then goes "fuck it", steals car, robs a gas station with his criminal friends or does smoke runs (that's bringing contraband cigarettes over Russian border, due avoiding insane EU tax, it's actually better business than drugs), parties few days from plunder and gets caught again. He's been in this cycle for 17 years (since age of 15), serving 5th term and many of his buddies are like this too.

Truth to be told, he lives in eastmost area of Estonia that is pretty much a Soviet industrial wasteland with mostly immgrant Russian population and no other industry than chemistry and mining and he's no miner material. But yeah... repeating offenders don't really know how to live a civil life, especially if they're used being taken care of in prison.

I don't think anything but forced and then professional career in military service would save him, but he's too old to be conscripted (they deny over 27 year olds).

[Babar]

I read somewhere (no idea how true it is) how a person in some US state was diagnosed with cancer or something, but didn't have healthcare or any way to treat it, so he finally went to a bank, robbed it for $1, and let himself get caught, sent to prison, and now his cancer is being treated.



...So yeah...


EDIT: Well, I guess it isn't. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/nc-man-allegedly-robs-bank-health-care-jail/story?id=13887040

[Snarky]

I completely disbelieve that there are people (apart from maybe a small number of mostly harmless wretches in desperate conditions: junkies, drunks and homeless people at the end of their rope) who prefer the "comfy" prison life to freedom, commit crimes in order to go back to jail, and sit there "milking it for their own welfare". That's a paranoid fantasy.

No it's not. I have a relative who gets out, kisses ground and hugs freedom and vows to never go back.... then he tries to find work and listens his mom nagging for few weeks, then goes "fuck it", steals car, robs a gas station with his criminal friends or does smoke runs (that's bringing contraband cigarettes over Russian border, due avoiding insane EU tax, it's actually better business than drugs), parties few days from plunder and gets caught again. He's been in this cycle for 17 years (since age of 15), serving 5th term and many of his buddies are like this too.

That's not what you said, though. Now you're talking about someone who chooses to live a criminal life, taking the risk of going to prison, over the difficulties of finding honest work etc. It's pretty clear from your description that your relative doesn't prefer prison to freedom or is deliberately seeking to go back to jail.

[Calin Leafshade]

It's also arguable that prison robs you of your ability to socialise and interact with society normally which in turn makes you more likely to subvert. i.e commit crime.

The harsher the prison the more it dehumanises the inmates and the more dehumanised the inmates become the less likely they are to behave 'normally' on release.

However, the solution (if one exists) is not to just shoot them all and say "problem solved". Just like you wouldnt cut your head off to cure a tooth ache.

[WHAM]

However, the solution (if one exists) is not to just shoot them all and say "problem solved". Just like you wouldnt cut your head off to cure a tooth ache.

What you describe is nuking the city where a criminal is caught, and even I would call that an overblown reaction.
What happens in real life is that the dentist identifies the tooth, realizes it is rotten and pulls it, to relieve the pain and keep any possible infections from spreading...

Sounds like my final solution, doesn't it?

[veryweirdguy]

You're absolutely right! Let's get rid of them.

First off: speeders. they are endangering the lives of others and are a menace to society. Anyone caught speeding - or has admitted to it - line up for shooting. The world will be better off without you!

Better to take their lives than risk the lives of others, right?

[WHAM]

I didn't know you can get an extended prison sentence for speeding where you live, VWG. The prisons over there must be an even bigger drain on  tax money, or perhaps you live in some sort of paradise where crime simply does not exist!

I feel sorry for you... I honestly do.

[veryweirdguy]

If criminals are a different species, then a criminal is a criminal is a criminal. Mass murderer or speeder, they have both broken the law, and are defined as a "criminal", that is, a species different than upstanding citizens such as Calin or I.

And if they have all given up their rights by committing a crime, then they get no say in what happens to them. Sorry!

[ddq]

Obviously, the actual murder or vehicular homicide doesn't matter, only the tax dollars wasted on imprisoning them since WHAM has proven repeatedly he doesn't value human life.

And stop calling it your "final solution", asshole.