Any psychologists in this forum???

[Meowster]

Maybe you guys can help, because I need a bit of info but I'm not really sure to get it… maybe you have similar experiences etc…

I'll keep it short…

My dad was very violent, very abusive towards his children and to my mother. He never had a job… my mum was the breadwinner of the household. He had constant mood-swings and would hit my mother for the stupidest of reasons, including if he had a bad dream about her. He always let us down in various ways, got drunk a lot, got us into a lot of debt, cheated on my mum, went out drinking/taking drugs every night… would never let my mum go out or even learn to drive…

I have four sisters and two brothers.

My sisters and one of my brothers, live with my mum. They love her, all is well.

My older brother, who is 23, has some kind of weird grudge against my mother though. And I don't know why. He loves his father and defends him as being a great man, even though he's clearly not. He also copies everything my dad says about my mum… my dad is paranoid and convinced that my mum is sleeping around (she's clearly not) and that she wears “slutty clothes” (again, that's so ridiculous… we can all see what she wears… she wears NORMAL CLOTHES.)

When my older brother heard him say these things, he immediately copied them and accused her of the same thing.

My mother hardly ever drinks as she has so much work to do all the time… once however, I bought her a bottle of wine for her birthday. We shared it together, but my dad got offended that we didn't offer him any. He accused her of being a drunkard, and ever since, my brother has accused her of the same…

I don't understand why he defends my dad, and hates my mother… when it's so clear to ANYBODY ELSE that my dad is pretty worthless and a classic stereotypical wife-beater, and my mum is actually a smart, pleasant woman…

But the worst thing is, he feels the need to try and “convert” me and my siblings. I haven't had a conversation with my brother in five years that hasn't been 80% about him talking about what a “disgrace” my mother is. It's got to the point where none of his sisters or our brother hang out with him any more, because that's all he talks about ever. In five years. How much he hates his mum… mostly for made-up reasons!

If I ever try to ask him to stop, or try not to involve myself in his rants, he ends up grabbing my wrists so I can't walk away, and talking loudly over me until I give up. All so he can tell me that he thinks my mother shouldn't be studying science in university, because it's a slutty subject to study. Or something. I don't know, he makes up the stupidest shit...

So here's the reason I need help… what the hell is going on?! Why can't he let go of his imaginary problems after FIVE YEARS? Why is he so obsessed with talking about her all the time? Why does he defend his dad who really is a worthless person? Why does he make excuses for his dad having beaten our mum up so badly (saying things like "she winds him up, if she was REALLY afraid of him then she wouldn't wind him up all the time would she?")

I'm confused. Is there some kind of mental condition this can be attributed to!?

[ManicMatt]

So he is the only one in your family who is in contact with your father? Sounds to me like he's brainwashed by his own father. I wouldn't guess it was a mental condition.... although I'm not a psychologist. But you did post on an adventure game forum rather than a psychologist forum!

Is he the oldest of all of you? When did he leave the home? Was he around to witness the abuse from his father?

[scotch]

There are no psychologists on the forums, or lawyers, or doctors, we're not the best people to ask for advice or insight into your life.

But if you want an uninformed opinion, I don't think it sounds like a specific named mental disorder. You get divisions like this in a lot of families to a greater or lesser extent, I don't know what draws people to respect even abusive family members, but you have a lot of time stuck with people to condition yourself to accept the behaviour. You're lucky your mother doesn't feel the same way about him, that's the worst situation.

[Meowster]

I guess I asked on this forum because there are so many people with so many different experiences... I don't know any psychologist forums, and usually when I do search for forums on specific subjects they're dead anyway...

My brother was around to witness the abuse, yes... and he is the only one still in contact with my dad, Manic Matt...

It's just weird, I've love to know what goes through his head, whether he believes the things he says, why he defends his dad, etc...

[big brother]

If your dad never let your mom out and she couldn't drive, how did she have a job and make money for the family?

[Meowster]

He drove her everywhere she needed to go. He'd only let her go to work.

Incidentally, sometimes he'd get so angry that he would refuse to drive her into work. She had to take a taxi, and then he would accuse her of paying the taxi driver with sex.

Somehow in his mind, this seemed like a likely scenario.

When she did ask for driving lessons, he wouldn't let her take them because driving instructors were all "perverts"... he insisted on teaching her himself. He'd get frustrated and impatient very quickly, and give up after two or three lessons...


She only learned to drive after she left him. Then when she moved back a year later, the tables had turned - he'd crashed his car and hadn't got a job or any money to afford a new one, whereas she had a car and could drive. He was so frustrated by the situation that he told my mother stories about how people in town had seen her driving and she was a "terrible" driver... apparently everybody in the whole town was commenting on what a bad driver she was. This is probably just a story that my dad made up, to belittle my mum and make her nervous... but it's the kind of thing he does.

So yeah... even more of a reason that I have NO IDEA how my brother could justify his behaviour 100%, and hate my mum. There is some kind of psychological block or something... is he refusing to remember any of this stuff? Does he lie to himself about what happened, why it happened etc?


(Incidentally, we never learned to swim either... because he thought that paedophiles hung out around pools and beaches, and that both were dirty. The ONE TIME we were allowed to swim, he made me and my mother wear long shorts and loose shirts over our swimming costumes, even though there was nobody else in the pool...)

[voh]

Sounds like your brother is a chip off the ol' block. Your dad is your dad, and it seems your brother inherited the asshole gene. Sorry, but I doubt it's a mental or psychological problem, it's just that he identifies more with your dad than with your mom (and subsequently, you guys).

[Andail]

Having studied at least a bit development psychology:

It's no mental disorder, nor is there an asshole gene being passed.

The phenomemon you describe is very common, and is some sort of defense mechanism which in turn stems from a typical psychological progress of a son and his parents. A son typically undergoes the oedipus stage, where all his sympathies go to his mother, but when this stage passes around late puberty, the feelings can be almost reversed, and the break up with his mother can be very deep and sometimes hard to mend. If the parents are in conflict, he may side totally with the father (after having initially sided with the mother 100%). Psychological mechanisms like this tend to be fuelled by their irrationality, so the less reason to side with his father, the more focused will his hatred be towards his mother and all those who support her.
If he deep down realises that his father's behaviour is despicable, his subconcious devotion to defend him will be more profound.

Watch The Squid and the Whale if you want a good example of this mechanism. It's a very good movie.

[Helm]

Posting on the internet is all well and good if it's not a super-serious issue, but I think you should turn to non-internet professionals for stuff like this.

[ildu]

Although I'm no expert (though my Dad is a professor of psychology, my brother studies psychology, my whole extended family consists mostly of psychologists, and I've been, on occasion, called "the little psychologist" ), it has been said in many occurances that in a violent family relationship, the children, especially boys, may often side with the aggressive partner. It's got something to do with trying to justify the aggressive partners actions, while rewarding strength over weakness. In the relationship, the children may have gotten this kind of weakness-stigma, which makes them lash out at the recessive partner, for having "let it happen".

This thing has happened to me as well, on a smaller scale. My family went through a brief adultery (not sure sex was involved) tabacle not so long ago, and while it was nothing big, I did side with the cheater, because I felt that if the other partner had put more effort into the relationship, nothing would have happened. So basically at that time I was justifying the harmful action to myself. Fortunately the whole thing was really brief and it left no mark. I'm happy to say that things these days are better than ever .

By the way, it's also been said that people tend to gravitate to the fields of work they've had troubles with in their childhood. So in that case, you probably shouldn't listen to me, because apparently then my whole extended family are a bunch of nutcases .

[biothlebop]

Much of my thinking and (imaginary/percieved) problems are quite digital in nature. I sometimes pester my friends/aquintances that live according to ideologies/morals with questions or try to undermine their points of view.

My motives for doing this are curiosity, the thrill of competing (and possibly winning) but the end goal is usually understanding. Sometimes I get wound up and pick apart/analyze things too much, thankfully I have learned to slightly restrain myself so that I don't attack people's viewpoints as blatantly anymore if they don't wish to be challenged.

For example, my mother is religious, and in my teens I attacked her beliefs on several times. Sometimes she got defensive and upset since I just kept at it (and as a result snapped at me and yelled), but I needed it.
I needed to know the weaknesses in her belief-system, pierce a hole in it before I could see it from the inside, wear/adopt parts of it.

Why?
I have the momentum of a freight train when I find the determination. If I had adopted a seemingly perfect idea without knowing some of it's faults, I would perhaps have been going at 88 mph at the time I'd encountered that hole in the belief-system, been derailed. This might also have something to do with acceptance (I have not usually been embraced with open arms by others, but had to break/force my way in, make certain people are as dependent on me as I am of them, expose their vulnerabilities, see if they are on my level so I could become their equal, not their servant).

Shortly, if I was your brother, one possible reason could be a need to break down your defenses before I could side with you, build some kind of bridge between the opposing sides.

[td]

Meowster
are u japanese or chinese?

[Meowster]

.... Irish ¬¬

[vict0r]

There are no Irish on the internet!

[Meowster]

Well, not in Ireland there's not (we have no phone lines, internet access, post-boxes or electricity in most parts of the country, although we're slowly getting there with some EU funding...)

But, I'm currently living in England. So I have the internets here. Although I'm not really sure how to work the google.

[vict0r]

Aah! That's because you're a girl. You see, girls don't exist on the internet. You should get out of here quick before you turn into a 47 year old paedo!

[LUniqueDan]

You should get out of here quick before you turn into a 47 year old paedo!

Why everybody hate me?  :

No, Seriously Meowster, I think I know how you feel.
The list of Psychologically-related stuff who can explain this, at least the way you tell it, the are quite large. From the Stockholm syndrome to different kind of denials. (I have the tendency to agree with Andails POV on that matter), my question will be this one : why does it matter to you? Your bro is 23 now, unless you tell me he is chained in your father place, I think, that even how wrong he can be, is entitled to is opinion.

The best way it's to set things clear with him, and just found a kind of common places of discussion that will not be related to your parents at all.
I'm sure both of you can do it.

That's how I solved something like that w\ my both parents some 10 years ago and it works.

[Meowster]

It bothers me because I CAN'T speak to my brother anymore. He obsesses over this hatred of my mum and of trying to make everyone else hate her.

I've told him he does this and asked him to stop, it doesn't work.