Why is that? I'm personally involved so... I am biased, but still,
I just read some reviews from various games, where the audio part, is totally bypassed. Not even a mention. I could go and mention names and links, etc, but I don't really see the point.
It's just something that I've noticed over quite a few reviews, comments, etc. Very few people notice the music. And it's not because of the quality, cause I'm also talking about commercial games, and not only AGS games.
I'm wondering if you take a silent game, how would you feel, to the lack of audio then?
Just pissed off I guess... (and selfish, yes, I know)
Nikolas, its obviously something which is considered less important by most than graphics and gameplay are, but a game without music is like a sandwich with no butter - dry and kinda hard to swallow.
Music is definitely excellent for creating the mood and atmoshpere in a game, the same way it can be used in a movie. Watching movies without music would make it seem so empty, but when you watch the movie with music you don't notice it because it often fits in so well, I guess.
As much as you may think we don't appreciate the music in games, we certainly appreciate it if only for the fact that without it our games are empty and lifeless. I guess a musician becomes a sort of underdog in a game, but we really do love you music types. I guess now that I've read your post, I'll probably take more notice of music in games in the future, seeing as I've thought about how important it is. You may be depressed, but you're also raising awareness about the importance of one of the key elements in adventure gaming. Consider me enlightened.
Its only because we hate musicians, Nikolas :=
I know, Andrew, I know... :'(
Ben: I know what you mean, and I do agree that music is at some parts secondary... It HAS to be. But still, seeing reviews that go.
Story:
Gameplay:
Puzzles:
Graphics:
get the game/don't get the game
is a bliah review for me... :=
Nik, here's the way I see it -
Music in game is like a pianist who's accompanying a singer in a recital. The better the pianist is, the less notice you'll take of him, because he'll empashize the singer, and he'll make it so easy for the singer people will forget he's there. But they WILL notice if he screws up or tries to take more attention than he should.
And if he's good, people won't notice that directly, but his quality WILL give the whole quality. And other singers will come running for him to be in their recital.
Music in a game is really an unobtrusive thing. It can make or break a game, but it does so invisibly.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 10/09/2007 10:17:15
The better the pianist is, the less notice you'll take of him, because he'll empashize the singer, and he'll make it so easy for the singer people will forget he's there.
Actually I sometimes wanted the singer to shut the hell up so I could enjoy the sound of the piano alone.
Most of my favourite albums are soundtracks of games and movies, and I am forever upset that voice actors don't get the recognition that they deserve. So I'm with you there, Nikolas, even though I'm not a musician myself.
Mostly game music is background music. This is why I hardly ever notice it. Sorry :-\
Aw I notice it, but I'm a pretty musical person. I enjoy a game so much more when there's music.
Music may not be acknowledged but I don't think it is ignored. When a reviewer writes about an absorbing atmosphere or a frightening sequence, it's likely to be the music that made them feel the way they feel.
It's a shame that it isn't acknowledged, but a game without music would probably get reviews calling it uninvolving and lacking in atmosphere. Music may not always be noticed by players, but it is rarely ignored.
QuoteActually I sometimes wanted the singer to shut the hell up so I could enjoy the sound of the piano alone.
Maybe if you're casually listening to the radio, or TV-zapping (if you're a casual gamer booting it up, playing for a couple of minutes with no intent to stay any longer, fiddling with the controls as you go along). But if you go to a Pavarotti recital, or a Florez, or a Bumbry, or a whatever, did you really pay all that money, maybe even go to another country for a week so you could attend it, just for the pianist?
Obviously, my example takes for granted that people actually *want* to play the game.
Granted, the first time I play a game (or watch a movie), I may not necessarily take notice of the music immediately (unless it made a really big impact on the game/movie's mood, or atmosphere or whatever). But afterwards - why not?
And I don't think video game music, particularly, is ignored at all actually. In my opinion, in the gaming scene, composers are honoured almost even more so than artists. Nobuo Uematsu's work for the Final Fantasy series has spawned several full orchestra performances, one of which is the international PLAY! Videogame Symphony. He's also got his own prog rock band which plays music from the FF series. I could give you another example: Fans of Silent Hill refused to accept anyone else other than Akira Yamaoka, the original composer for the game's soundtrack, to do the music for the Hollywood movie adaptation. It's the first time I've ever seen game music make it to the big screen.
But for some reason, PC games music doesn't seem to get the same kind of near cult-status recognition. And in general, music is really not often mentioned in reviews. I'm not sure why.
The music is always the 2nd thing to catch me, but I only ignore it if it's annoying and repetitive. I have a game thats only for Xbox (old game) and the graphics aren't the best, but the first thing that got me was the music. It's composed very nicely, and each track is epic.
BTW, I'm a huge fan of some soundtracks. I have the GK1, GK2 and GK3 soundtracks and listen to them occasionally.
If a game DOESN'T have music (or it doesn't play for some reason), I notice it immediately, and gameplay seems lacking from that point on.
Otherwise, I think game music has a habit of getting into your head, so you don't consciously notice it. When I was playing Morrowind, I didn't really notice the music until someone else who wasn't watching me on the computer commented on how sad the music was.
I'm not sure whether it's true to say that game music is ignored. It may not always be commented on specifically, but as Ben said it'll be mentioned as part of the atmosphere.
I mean, in commercial games reviews say "graphics" and give a score. Well, if you're an animator they don't single out animation, and "graphics" encompasses engine, lighting, character modelling, environment modelling, effects, animation... that's at least 6 roles just off the top of my head - before including things like level design and concept art.
Why should they single out musicians specifically to give a score to when this isn't the case for any other role in the games industry?
Really, musicians are in a good position. I'm much more likely to remember the name of a musician on a game I like than say the Lead Artist, or Lead Programmer.
Binky, though that makes sense, animations are included in "Graphics". Level design is included in "Gameplay". If a game isn't scored for Music/Sound Effects/Voice acting, whichever name you give to the group so you can lump 'em all together, then the review is, indeed, lacking.
Okay, but most decent review sites/mags will generally either have an "audio" category or they just give an overall score and audio will be mentioned alongside everything else in the review.
If we're talking about the sort of site that's going to break down "gameplay" into "puzzles", "story", etc then I agree, not including "audio" is a bit crap. But to me, that would just imply that the review site's a bit crap - rather than being some deep rooted issue of people generally ignoring music/sound.
aye, it may be hard to notice the awesome music in the back. Musicians usually do, but most people don't even write reviews, those who do are game makers, not musicians. One thing that everyone spots though is awful music, which will be pointed out most probably, so I think having your music not reviewed might be a good thing :)
I don't know why some people ignore music in a game.
I certainly don't!
In my opinion, music and graphics are equal. They emphasize eachother, and I always pay alot of attention to both when I play.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 10/09/2007 11:31:02
Maybe if you're casually listening to the radio, or TV-zapping (if you're a casual gamer booting it up, playing for a couple of minutes with no intent to stay any longer, fiddling with the controls as you go along). But if you go to a Pavarotti recital, or a Florez, or a Bumbry, or a whatever, did you really pay all that money, maybe even go to another country for a week so you could attend it, just for the pianist?
Obviously, my example takes for granted that people actually *want* to play the game.
Yeah, what I meant were performances on tv or the radio that I stumble across. Sometimes I come cross something and i think "now that song on the piano is awesome but the singer is just ruining it". Sometimes it's the other way around and I want to listen only to the voice of the singer without anything else. It depends on the performance. Sometimes piano and voice mix well, sometimes they don't.
As far as music in games goes: George Lucas said that sound is 50% of the motion picture experience. I think the same is true for games. Maybe not all of them, but for games that are story based and rely on atmosphere the music is definitely an essential part. Like the others said you might not always conciously hear the music but you feel the mood it is creating. I would go as far as saying that you're not supposed to hear the soundtrack, you're supposed to feel it.
For example, I could probably name about 20 or so musicians from the C64 era and the games they worked on. I doubt I could name a single artist or programmer. If that's music getting ignored or overlooked then I'm the Pope ;)
Obviously games are bigger nowadays so nobody's (except people like Will Wright) name features prominently any more.
Personally, in some games, the music was really annoying. I turned it off sometimes. Like I HATE music in racing games. I want to hear the roar of the engine and shifting.
But i in games like Homeworld (both 1 and 2) the music was ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! Half of the game atmosphere made the music itself. Same by thief 1 and 2. Loved music in Morrowind, but that turned to be monothonic after a while.
Conclusion: It's hard to say if the music is good or not in a game. That's 90% personal, I think. So it's bypassed in the reviews. But it's NOT unimportant. It's maybe less important than other parts of the game, but it can significantly make the game better/worse.
For me, music (also the decision if only background music will be used, or if there is lound atmospheric music like in Homeworld or NWN) is very important. The music can make me absolutely enjoy or absolutely dislike the game.
I tend to notice the music in any game I play very early on.
If it's crap, well I have been known to stop playing a game because I can't stand the music.
I used to review games for my own amusement and I always made a note of the music and other sound effects. This part of the review got just as much column space as any other and I always listen as well as look when I'm playing... even in AGS games which rarely have sound other than the backing music.
Oh, I certainly don't ignore music.
But then, I'm a musical guy anyway.
There are some soundtracks which really stand out, and usually I remember the name of the composer.
KQ6 - Chris Brayman
Monkey Island - Michael Land
Outcast - Lennie Moore
Gabriel Knight - Robert Holmes
Many Lucas Arts soundtracks are from Peter McConnell.
So, I don't think they get ignored.
But yes, they don't seem to get mentioned. Maybe because they're not considered important. Maybe the reviewer thinks that most people will only care about graphics and gameplay!?
Also, some games feature only ambience tracks. You shouldn't notice those, they just create the atmosphere.
Quote from: Ozzie on Mon 10/09/2007 17:23:34
But yes, they don't seem to get mentioned. Maybe because they're not considered important. Maybe the reviewer thinks that most people will only care about graphics and gameplay!?
Exactly my point!
If the music in a game is good, I will take the time to learn who the composer is. I guess that's the best I can offer.
When a composer has a number of highly regarded soundtracks under his belt, then it's time to put his name on the box. Jesper Kyd, Akira Yamaoka, Nobuo Uematsu, etc.
Would I buy a game purely because its soundtrack is by a certain composer? I'd have to say no.
Quote from: LimpingFish on Mon 10/09/2007 17:40:57
Would I buy a game purely because its soundtrack is by a certain composer? I'd have to say no.
Exactly. I guess the music is just a thing that "come" with the game. It it important, but wheter you buy the game or not - this decision goes often absolutely away of music. I buy a game when I think I'll like it because of its genre/theme. Music is secondary. And like Fish said, I would't buy a game because of its music. Therefore, it's probably unimportant to mention the music in the review. But I often see sentences like "The sound in this game is well done. Especially the music." or "The music playing again and again drives you nuts after 15 minutes".
Quote from: LimpingFish on Mon 10/09/2007 17:40:57
Would I buy a game purely because its soundtrack is by a certain composer? I'd have to say no.
Interesting point. But would you buy a game because it had an innovative graphics style? Or interesting gameplay?
I might. So then, what? I guess music is not
that important with respect to the rest.
Yes it is actually.
I don't think that even I go out to see a movie, or get a game for the music...
So should the reviewers care about the audio part, since it doesn't change the market possibilities then?
:( I didn't say that. Neither did I say it was unimportant. I guess its just less important wrt some of the other stuff.
I answered your question, not said you said it. ;)
I also mentioned what I do myself. I don't remember myself going to see a movie (for example) because it had music by Zimmer. So I don't go out for the music. Should the reviews mention the music is good then?
Good music will not make a bad game with unclear graphics, poor setting and atmosphere and clumsy gameplay into a good game. Good music will only make make an already good game better. Game music is meant to complement and enhance the atmosphere of a game, not divert attention from it. Music will always be part of the scenery in games, partly because being able to play the game is going to be more important. If a more central role for music is desired, then really it's probably best to write an album, rather than make a game in my opinion.
I think there should be a mention if the music is good or bad, but I wouldn't expect any big deals with it. It wouldn't affect anything except changing the "feel" of the game.
Most reviews I have read have had music mentioned. I didn't expect that it's ignored most of the time.
I think music can really make or break my interest, and I think its very important in adventure games. In an adventure game you are going to be looking at the same sorry schmuk for HOURS, sure there might be occasional animation but walking back and forth gets a tad repetitive.music adds so much to negate that tedium. Best example, Pleurgburg, the music was what (to me) made that game the ags classic it is. and made up for its rather simple graphics.
and as far as the pros I think we are forgetting Robyn Miller even if you HATE myst and riven, you got to admit they had killer soundtracks
Quote from: Becky on Mon 10/09/2007 19:28:50
If a more central role for music is desired, then really it's probably best to write an album, rather than make a game in my opinion.
Or make something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7wpGkAQgE
Just to make my point clearer (to Becky for example): It's not about the importance of music in games for me (in this thread at least). I know that music is secondary, and should be so, otherwise I would be making pop records (unsuccessfully but anyhow). It's on why reviewers don't care about it.
I saw 1 review for "Blackwell Unbound" and 2 for "Tale of Two kingdoms" (well... I am self centered I said so in the begining), which had no mentioning on music. And it's not that I mind really. Blackwell is not my work, but Thomases, and ATOTK is a work from 4-5 different composers, so I can hardly take credit... But it did strike me as odd...
but I will admit that since no one goes in the market for a game with good music, there are lesser points in including music in a review, thus I did get an answer (that didn't think off, initially).
The correct usage of music (for me) in games is to be there, not noticed, unless a cutscene, or the gameplay requires it. Nothing else. Unless you do go the extra mile (like spaceboy linked) and which case... yay!
Reviewers don't care about it because it's not as important. It's very simple :P They're reviewing a game, so will focus on the things most important to a game. Though most reviews of commerical games I've read mention music/sound somewhere.
Jesper Kyd did the music for Freedom fighters, and maybe the Hitman series, right? That's some good music there!
If someone asks me if, for example, Dragon Quest on the ps2 (the UK's only one) was any good, I wouldnt reply with "The music is top notch!" as it doesnt answer their question. It's not a good enough reason to base purchasing a game for. Just like this guy who told me he didnt like Shadow Hearts 3 'cos the voice actors had changed for some of the low key characters. Why would that be enough reason to hate a game?
I remember music from the C64 days more so, not because it was better, but because the whole game would have about 3 songs that loop after 4 minutes.
I am currently playing Rogue Galaxy, and after about 2 hours on a level I was starting to get bored of the music on that level. I got like that on Kingdom Hearts 2 once. The music is great, but it will grate after hearing the same part over and over. And you cant turn it off without using the master volume.
As for magazines, they sometimes mention the music, but rarely. They usually mention it if it really impressed them, or they moaned about the emo/hip hop radio station in the latest EA sports title.
Most reviews I've ever read have included at least one line about music, and that for me is plenty. I really doubt it's ignored. Sound is half the picture, and it'll be the music that really drives the journey. If music is forgotten in a review I find it's simply because the reviewer thinks the people reading need more information on the technical aspects of a game, though i'm sure that reviewer still has an opinion on the music - just an unprovoked one unless it really stood out as good or bad.
Personally that to me is a bit crappy, kinda says the reviewer is only considerate of the technical side and they forget the parts that are really taking them on a journey through a "game". But hey, after reading game reviews for 10 years you kinda get used to it!
Personally, I only buy a game for the story and the gameplay and not for the graphics either.
But usually it is mentioned how impressive the graphics look.
Yeah, but some people want ONLY the graphics. And there are lots of people like this. They even won't play a game because it has crap graphics, even if it has suberb gameplay. They have highend PCs and enjoying only the graphics, no matter if it's good or bad game. I have some old crap and I buy games ONLY and ONLY for gameplay. No matter about graphics, if there isn't something really weird about them. And I don't care about the music also. But don't get me wrong - if the graphics are good-looking and balanced (not just technically top-effects) and the music is well composed, it makes a helluva better game then!
I find that I care for the story part, and the gameplay...
But I have to admit that a great scene, or cutscene, or BGs (in older games) when dying, or accomplishing something great, was an amazing reward! Same with music pretty much.
While I don't mind playing games with rubbish everything, still the story and the kind of story is most important!
Some of my favourite games of all time have great soundtracks.
I'm sure that's not the reason I liked the games but it must have added something to my enjoyment of them. Final Fantasy VII, Tomb Raider, LoZ Ocarina of Time. I still hum and whistle tunes from these games even today.
And yes, I did put Tomb Raider as one of my favourite games... so sue me.
I agree, tomb raider is a great game, and the music is just superb. I REALLY love the main menu song. And looking at it now allows you to relize, what in the name of all things round and squishy were we getting excited over? SO she is a woman main character. That was new but not NEW new, I think Rosiline from KQ4 and princess peach were both female character before dear Lara.
Looking at it now, we realize it was the first great 3d platform/action/adventure. Which had great gameplay, and great level design. Those two things alone cane make it a great game.
Yes, I must admit that Tomb Raider is probably the founder of such action/adventure genre.
I think after all these years, reviewers and players put emphasis at describing/shopping for the gameplay, plot and graphics because these 3 elements could be fully described since the very begining in gaming magazines, you can write about the gameplay and story, and you can put screenshots of the games to show how it looks like, but unless if we're talking about a soundtrack made from radio songs, you can't really have a good idea on the musical aspect unless if you hear it.
But we've gone a long way since it was gaming magazines that informed us and bandwidth considerably increased since the old days of dialup, while I doubt they will, they could put music samples next to the screenshots and gameplay videos on reviewing websites, but I fear it will take a very long time until gamers see music like they see ingame screenshots.
Personally, while I find music as important as the plot, graphic and atmosphere, there's one advantage to music that the game's other aesthetics cannot have, when you love a game's music, you can search for the soundtrack and listen at it long after you're done playing the game.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Tue 11/09/2007 11:16:26
Looking at it now, we realize it was the first great 3d platform/action/adventure. Which had great gameplay, and great level design. Those two things alone cane make it a great game.
oh yes, but what i ment was the boobage controversy, its just a few polygons.
Its a great game with a relitvly simple control system that allows you to explore a world, something many games nowaday could do well to remember.