Hey everyone,
I'm just really proud of this so I wanted to show it off. Yesterday my band went into the studio for the first time ever, we've done demo's in my crap little home set up, but this was in a pro studio. It was amazing to work in there all day and it was so worth it, so please have a listen and tell me what you think.
http://www.myspace.com/mysterymachinetheband
Song we recorded in studio is called The Tree Song.
Cheers,
-Cameron
Wow, that sounds really great! The style reminds me of Jimi Hendrix. :) Good job and congratulations! :D
Thanks Pablo, I'm glad you liked it :) And any comparison to Jimi Hendrix can't be a bad thing! :D
Really good stuff, I'm going toplay this on my radio show, which incidentally, you should all listen to (http://www.livewire1350.com)
I really like this Cameron. It's a fun sound!
The track sounds great, man. It's cool to see how you've developed musically over the years.
Bt
Sounds excellent! I can't wait to hear what more you record!
This sounds GREAT man! Well done!
Thanks guys :) It's quite a good feeling hearing all this positive feedback. The track convinced a friend of ours to join as a full time drummer. And today after school we worked on him learning the drums to that song and getting some stuff down for other tracks. This saturday we're going in to recording another song :) I'll let you know when it's up!
Cheers,
-Cameron
Nice, added you! :)
It's kinda depressing a concept. I don't like your music much, believe it to be extremely derivative, but it's well-made mostly (a big-time producer would make it sound very marketable) and if you keep at it, you might make it big.
Helm, as much as I usually respect you, fuck you. The idea is not making it big, sure, that'd be fun, but the idea is making good original music, and you just took a giant swipe at something I have put lots of time and effort into. If you don't want to say something constructive, then just shut the fuck up, alright?
But what I said is constructive: your music is not original in my opinion. And another constructive bit: learn to take criticism without lashing out, because you'll get a lot of it if you have any sort of public artistic venture like a band or whatever. You won't be able to go very far by telling everybody to fuck themselves when you don't like what they're saying.
I do not operate under the concept of 'if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all'. Neither does this forum, as far as I know. I am not happy to have upset you, but I am really struggling with the idea of apologizing to you for giving it to you straight, and being told to fuck myself on top of that.
Sorry I lashed out Helm, but it was a personal attack. Would you feel at ease if I said I thought your art was unoriginal and I really don't like it. That the whole thing was a depressing concept but you'll make it big because you're "marketable"? I can take criticism sure, but the way you said it was not remotley constructive and came across entirely as a personal jab. Image having this one piece of art you've been sketching and redrawing, always trying to improve it and doing a final version, only to have someone say it's not really worth it. Can you see where I'm coming from?
QuoteSorry I lashed out Helm, but it was a personal attack. Would you feel at ease if I said I thought your art was unoriginal and I really don't like it.
Pretending I had made a claim to originality, I wouldn't feel at ease, I would try to inspect if there's any validity to such a complaint. I don't consider my music original, personally, so I don't have that problem. But since you make a big deal out of it in your myspace, first listing a huge list of artists you sound like and the saying 'we sound like ourselves' where in my opinion you clearly don't, you have a problem in your hands.
Originality in music is very difficult. Very difficult. Playing like the Doors and the Beatles is not very original. In your position I would change that concept to being a
good but unoriginal band, rather than pretending we don't sound like anyone else. You're close to being good for the style, I'd drop the 'original' pretention altogether.
There's going to be so many people that won't like your music. If you promote it, be prepared.
The fact that you dismiss so much as original is quite frustrating. We do like to sound like ourselves, sure people can hear influence, see some stylistic resembelances but we're not nicking riffs or stealing lyrics, we're writing original music with original lyrics that mean something to us, using our own words. So yes, I'd say we're original. If we go by your rule of originality, nothing will ever be original but is always a variation on an old theme. That idea distresses me. Everyones experiences in life are exclusive to them and that shapes who they are, which leads to them shaping their art. So we are original. The idea of you questioning artistic integrity is quite offensive, and would be to anyone. Suggesting I should give up being original and focus on being good for my style is plainly silly and rude.
No it's not. You're being awfully touchy. If you insist on showing your art in public, you need to get over this.
By a very humble definition or original, where you make your own riffs and lyrics, yes you are original. You're not a cover-band. But when people stress their artistic originality they usually don't speak about this. They mean their band doesn't sound like other bands, doesn't come across like other bands which is a claim that mainly genre originators (King Crimson, Black Sabbath, The Beatles for example) could make, and not for their whole career but for that precise turning point where they take the sum of their parts and create something arguably new with it. The Beatles started out playing rock n' roll covers. It would be ridiculous to suggest they were original at that stage.
The reason your band isn't original is that while the riffs and lyrics are new, they're stylistically aped from a number of bands you list yourself, and which come to mind acutely when I listen to your new song. It's that simple: you're not original because you sound like other bands. By that definition, 99.9% of bands are not original, and that's a pretty realistic estimate I think.
This idea, that distresses you, is one you should come to terms with without calling people rude, insulting their intelligence or telling them they should fuck off. If you want to be a frontman in a band, that is. Save the drama for when you stand to gain something from it.
I concede your point. Sorry I'm touchy Helm, but this is our first studio recording and I'm quite proud of it. And yes in complete honesty this song is a little derivative, we in fact had a talk to the guitarist who wrote it about the fact he seemed to be drifting more and more into sameyness. In a few weeks we record again, and they are stronger pieces I think you might see as more original. As I said, I'm sorry I called you rude, insulted your intelligence and told you to fuck off, I reacted with passion as I'm quite passionate about my music. I shall try save the dramatics from now on.
Cheers Helm,
-Cameron
No worries.
Sheesh. After years of playing in a group, you'll start seeing your own distinct, personal style and originality emerge. I don't really see criticizing originality valid anyway--it's such an amorphous, opinionated definition anyway. And at what granularity does the definition infer?
Music is a world of imitation, and through imitation and the reusing of ideas, new things evolve. You can't criticize this; it's the natural process of music.
First time I heard it I didn't like it, but the more I hear this song the more like it :D
congrats man... sweet song.
I don't like it either. The Tree Song is the only audibly tolerable song, and even still I find the vocals poor. The tone on everything is good, but reverb and distance is off. Nothing really fits. It sounds like it's trying to be something wicked, but it's not there.
Honestly, I think more time should be spent tightening songs rather than jump into a studio. It all felt like everyone was doing their own thing at once.
I'll give you that you're "original" but it's still not great.
wow, way to dump on a son evil.
the vocals are MUCH improved over previous work, and cameron has made it clear that this is their first studio produced song.
The lyrics, vocals and timing are sound and although musically the influences are very clear, its a good song and not worthy of your negativity.
He asked what we thought and I told him. All of the feedback, other than Helm, has been just "It's great". I don't think it's great. It's not aweful, for the first time in a studio it sounds alright, but not great.
I think it's good. Not musically, it's not my style, but as in the effort and the playing, and the recording. It's not commercial quality, but it's good.
Evil, the other songs on there, Alone and Midnight Envy, are only demos and yes the vocals on Midnight Envy suck. But as for Tree Song I was quite proud of the vocals, we've come a long way in regards to vocals as Zoot said. Since early recordings on my home stuff I've been working on improving my voice and although I recognize that I still need to keep improving I personally think Tree Song went quite well. And we haven't been rushing into the studio, we've been playing this song for over a year, we've spent all that time tightening and improving it. We wanted this first time in the studio as a taster before the holidays so we get used to working in it, and I think we did that well and achieved a good song in the process :)
Cameron: This is YOUR voice? :o WOW! It sounds good I have to say.
It could be a matter of style, and of course it's not commercial quality, but I do fancy this style, and I find it that it is rather tight, for a live recording... The mixing could be better, but who cares really? First time in the studio! Awesmoe!
I'm sure that next time in the studio it will be better. Not to mention growing up what will bring! You're 17 right? Imagine being 20! Heck I'm jealous now!
Quote from: Helm on Wed 23/05/2007 13:52:27
And another constructive bit: learn to take criticism without lashing out, because you'll get a lot of it if you have any sort of public artistic venture like a band or whatever. You won't be able to go very far by telling everybody to fuck themselves when you don't like what they're saying.
Yes, any public artistic venture like a band or whatever will attract criticism be it constructive, destructive or even outright moronic. And yes it is something that Cameron needs to learn to tolerate. On the other hand, dealing out blunt, almost caustic criticism at work that someone has put their heart into isn't very likely to be taken well. It's hard to imagine Helm writing that original comment without knowing exactly how it would be taken. From a certain perspective it would almost seem like Helm engineered the conflict for his own amusement, being just nasty enough to prompt a reaction while not going far enough to appear rude. But I'm sure he wouldn't do that.
Quote from: Jesus Juice on Thu 24/05/2007 03:11:32
On the other hand, dealing out blunt, almost caustic criticism at work that someone has put their heart into isn't very likely to be taken well.
Heh. This from the guy that told Yodaman that his music made the baby Jesus cry before the comment was deleted by moderators...
Just an observation! :=
[off-topic rant]
It's mainly my band's guitarist that was the problem- he's pretty cocky and thinks he's better than everyone else (which of course he's not)- our bassist is phenomenal (he looked at what chords to play for about 25 seconds and then he could play the music). Granted, our recording quality sucked, but if we scrapped our lead guitarist I think my band would be a lot better. Speaking of which, he actually did leave to start another band (so in turn, we're replacing him with 3 or 4 more musicians). I hope to get into a recording studio or at least record using a better mic like Cameron. [/off-topic rant]
Cameron, ignore Helm, because he's the only person so far who has had anything negative to say about your band. Helm tends to be fairly negative about other things too, so I wouldn't take his comments seriously. The bottom line: your band is great, you guys have some good potential for a big time record deal, and you guys do remind me of Hendrix. Please post some more songs when you have recorded them, as I love your band. 8)
Quote from: Vince Twelve on Thu 24/05/2007 04:10:23
Heh. This from the guy that told Yodaman that his music made the baby Jesus cry before the comment was deleted by moderators...
Just an observation! :=
Haha. Poor form that was on my part! I initally thought steel drummer was joking.
You know, on any other forum Helm would have been warned repeatedly for attempting to start a flame war... It is weird how utterly different this community is sometimes. :P
- Huw
I love how we let people express themselves :)
However, people keep referring to Hendrix. Be aware, that what they imply to is the main riff in the song, which, yes, is a bit Hendrix like, but the rest, surely not, so don't let it go to your head. The riff is good ;)
QuoteIt's hard to imagine Helm writing that original comment without knowing exactly how it would be taken.
You are incorrect and I resent that. I did not engineer a conflict for my own amusement. I do not aim for bad things. If you were around you'd have known that besides once (towards Yodaman, who deserves to be ridiculed for being a liar) every time I post about other people's music on this forum, I take it very seriously, because I like when I post about my own music, to be taken very seriously. I see no point in pointless ass-pattery. If people want to become better (professionals like Nikolas, and people with bands that want to make it like Cameron) they should hear it straight. Your imagination is scewed and has no room for people being blunt and honest without there being a bad intention behind this.
QuoteYou know, on any other forum Helm would have been warned repeatedly for attempting to start a flame war...
Is that so? On any other forum? I'd be warned repeatedly for originally saying I didn't find something original, and later for being told to fuck myself more than once?
Hah, everyone takes these things too seriously. Cam just wanted to show you guys his recording, i got the same shit when i posted my bands recording. People were trying to critique where it wasn't needed.
You know i think it sounds ace Cam, you've come along so far from the computer mic recordings i heard of your voice some years ago.
It's so much easier to come up to someone on a web forum and put them down by saying you don't like their music, try doing that at a gig. You'll get jumped!
Quote from: Chicky on Thu 24/05/2007 13:26:41
It's so much easier to come up to someone on a web forum and put them down by saying you don't like their music, try doing that at a gig. You'll get jumped!
What are you talking about? I've been to so many concerts, and I've heard so many shouted 'YOU GUYS SUUUUCK' and there's never fights. And it's not like I'm hollering some bullshit at the top of my lungs, I'm trying to help.
Artists that can't take critique never go far.
If he wanted critique, don't you think he would've posted in the critic's lounge?
Quoteso please have a listen and tell me what you think.
Quote from: [Cameron] on Sun 20/05/2007 10:39:33so please have a listen and tell me what you think.
What is wrong with you people! I didn't really like the music, but I don't know if I dare to expand on that or I'll get banned or something.
What' s the problem with Helm?
QuoteYou are good, but not too original. Being original in the world of music is almost impossible. You should move to label youselves as good, better than "original"
Has Helm told something like "You are bad" or "Every band trying to be original succeds, but you failed miserabilly..."? No. He said they are good. He said that almost no one, nowadays, can archieve originallity.
Is that so serious? I think it' s a critic... a good one, contructive and real, IMO. 0% of harshness, and some degree of gentle obliging intentions.
I didn' t like the tunes, either (Thanks Ghormak for opening the path). It' s not bad, but it doesn' t really turn me mad of emotion. I am not saying that the music is bad, or that it won' t appeal anybody. Cameron shouldn' t feel attacked if someone says something bad about the melodies. I didn' t like strawberries either and people seems to love them.
Huw, I don' t know if you hae a personal matter with Helm... He has a particular way of posting, I admitt it...
I must sometimes remember who he is in person, and how would "sound" that sentence he has written, if told by him, "live", to understand the criticism and see how lack of wickedness the sentence really is.
I am really open to discuss about if he, DGMacPhee, or myself included, should relax a bit when posting. I do. I don' t really care about "hard posting", because after some bad experiences, I learned to realise that people is not so harsh as sounds when posing, and 99% of the times bitter arguings are just missunderstandings.
But if some "soft" members like you want me to post in a more moderate way, I am open to discuss about it.
But not because of this stupidity. If I am in a jury, and I know I am judging a criminal who has avoided jail before because he had good lawyers, I am not going to imprison him now if, for once, he is innocent. Dud round, my friend.
Quote from: Steel Drummer on Thu 24/05/2007 14:18:16
If he wanted critique, don't you think he would've posted in the critic's lounge?
Actually I think that unless there's a big ol' "FEEDBACK: ENCOURAGING ONLY" (which I find counterproductive, but I can live with) in a post, everybody is free to speak their mind, be it here or anywhere else.
Jesus, stop being so sensitive, and stop jumping on bandwagons. Someone started attacking Helm for being blunt etc, then suddenly a whole bunch of people jumped right on. Even though Evil's post was much more criticising and less constructive. MOB MENTALITY.
It is always ok to give opinions in this forum. You know why, boys and girls? Because this isn't someone's personal homepage. This thread isn't Cameron's own private myspace page. He didn't pay to advertise on this board, so he can't dictate what people may say and may not say. What people can say here falls under the regulations and policies of this forum, and please, please let us moderators tell people what they may or may not say.
As for the music.
No, it's not original, not original at all. It sounds like Jimi Henrix riffs with 60's pop melodies. But it's still really good. I've done music recording myself and I know how darn difficult it is to get it sound even decent. And this sounds really good. But it's not going to make headlines for being innovative or original.
And in the long run, aspiring artists like Cameron will benefit much more from being challenged and questioned and provoked than from being petted on his back from people who just wish to appear friendly. Learning is a painful process. If it doesn't hurt, you're not learning anything.
Sorry Andail.
Same applies for Helm then and his public posts, correct? I can really really nicely critic the way he posts, and the way he handled any situation here. Of course he didn't have a "what do you think about my 200 latest posts", but still I do feel that a forum open minded should be able to handle that.
That just to correct you mate.
Now onto Helm.
At first I felt akward at his post cause this thread was not in the CL forum, as SD pointed out. Then I saw the "tell me what you think", and I thought that this qualifies as asking for feedback. And then I kept asking myself why Helms' post bothered me? And this is maybe why I came late in my reply.
I can now see that his feedback, although correct, since he's speaking the truth, was unplaced and uncalled for, for many reasons.
Somehow Helms' initial post felt more like a little bashing, a little "I'm superior than you, thus I can say this", a little non constructive... Cause there really is little reason to tell to someone that he is not original, especially when it is their 1st time in a studio. There should always be benchmarking to see where one stands before starting to provide feedback, and in the case of Cameron all one could say is "well done on your first effort.". Let him attempt the studio again to see what he'll do. Not to mention that I don't see anything constructive in this thread for Cameron really. Many people like his/their music and would like to support him somehow, some people don't, some think that he's a bit off with his wordings.
guys, there are millions (I do believe that there are millions) of myspace pages, and definately 99.9% are not professionals by any manner, nor most of them strive to be, or even dream. Myspace/soundclick is just free webspace, with the addition of the community. don't confuse what one would do to a pro composer, pro record, pro band going public, and a band whose done the very first steps. For gods shake. Would you go and tell a kid of 2 years old, who just started walking what he's doing wrong the way Helm did? Prolly not... ;)
By all means I'm not the guy who will go "well done" and nothing else, but there are different ways to do it and different reasons adn for different people. And you know that I can take feedback in what I do, furthermore I ask for it.
QuoteCause there really is little reason to tell to someone that he is not original
How about when they write in their myspace page "Sounds Like: Us, sounding like other people is shit. You should sound like who you are." Did you notice that?
QuoteBy all means I'm not the guy who will go "well done" and nothing else
But this is exactly what you did. This doesn't help Cameron.
You say that my way of critique was inappropriate. Cameron himself said he agrees with me now (after telling me to go fuck myself), so I can only assume that after the initial drama, I have helped. So
why are you, or anyone else playing dad here?
All that "feelings" towards Helm's first post are, as all the "feelings" argueable. I see nothing bad in his posts in this thread, therefore, if you see something wrong, there must be a previous grudge... Sorry Nikolas, but if everything is argueable, your post is as well. I think it makes no sense at all and it's oportunist.
"I respect you, but fuck off" That childish reaction has been written in this thread, and nobody mentioned it. Now, where is the "This community is utterly different sometimes" Huw?
As said, I am open to discuss about "hard" posting, but when THERE IS an actual hard posting, and not a mob reaction based on oportunism and previous grudges.
So, if someone wants to go on with this, open a new thread. Cameron asked our opinion, and some of us gave it. All the rest (including my posts getting involved into Helm' s issue) should be omitted.
P.S. And sorry Nikolas, you know I love you. We had zillions of laughs at msn, but I honestly confess that I' ve thought that you are the King of the uncalled "Well done" replies before. I open CL, and there are 3 replies by you, telling to the teenager newbie that his latest stickman is an awesome piece of art. :)
first things first.
Please quote the whole sentence when you quote me.
QuoteBy all means I'm not the guy who will go "well done" and nothing else, but there are different ways to do it and different reasons adn for different people.
This is the whole quote you should've used, which is completely different than what you are trying to put in my mouth. I analysed in my previous post why I didn't say anything further.
I started writing a huge post, but never mind.
what needs to be said is this.
you are right in what you say, there are definately better ways to accoplish the same result.
Feel like keep defending your right to critic and so on and the way you did it because in the long run it will benefit Cameron or anyone in his situation, go ahead... I told you my thoughts...
EDIT: Nacho, I can go on and show you plenyt of CL posts where I go "Well done mate, maybe this and maybe that...". with you on MSN I have rarely something to mention really regarding critic. Check with Vince and see if I can provide valid feedback or not. My point is exactly this: I don't critic away no matter what! I choose the timing and the person to do it... (btw, check a couple of threads made by Greg (Geoffkhan) to see how nice feedback I can provide...). Nope mate, I'm not the king of "well done". Just know when to give feedback and when not. ;)
Double Edit:
Opportunist, Farl :(? I have to admit that there have been troubles with Helm from my way from his way from both ways, dunno... I try to believe that I have gone through it and forget all about it. My post makes perfect sense in protecting Cameron, and boosting his confidence a bit further. Sometimes this is all there needs to be...
Quote from: Helm on Tue 22/05/2007 14:30:33
It's kinda depressing a concept. I don't like your music much, believe it to be extremely derivative, but it's well-made mostly (a big-time producer would make it sound very marketable) and if you keep at it, you might make it big.
Perhaps I lack imagination but I truly have trouble seeing how anyone can take such feedback onboard and alter their music in a positive way from those two sentences. As such, I am unable to define that as "constructive criticism." So I suppose the question is: what kind of criticism is it? And to what purpose was it posted? Perhaps the statement that they could "make it big" as an unlikable coporate rock act was actually intended as a sincere and heartfelt compliment and not as a backhanded insult? Who knows, perhaps it was.
First... I never said that I think that you don' t give positive feedback. Positive feedback can be given with the positive attitude of yours, as well.
Second. Of course I can be wrong. Maybe you are not to open to say "well done" as I thought, but that was my initial feeling, without making a macrostudy, graphic charts, or complicate figures... I will see your posts with magnifier now, to see if my intial feeling was wrong, and if it is, I' ll apology to you.
But...
Even if I am wrong, I think that this would prove that the spirit of the replies can be missundestood, since I honestly thought you were "mr. Well done!" man, and you are not, so... maybe you should also reconsider your attitude towards Helm's posts, because maybe you are so wrong as I was before, no?
Nacho wins again! :D
EDIT: Yes, Nikolas, I think that you have been opportunist here, since you are attacking a sinner (Helm) now, when, in my opinion, there has been no sin. Again, my opinion. If you honestly think that there has been a sin, you shouldn' t be opportunist from your point of view, which is really the point of view that matter.
Reply to your edit:
I don't think so. I do think that I gave a really analytical post regarding what I think and MY POV. This can hardly be considered an attack! And I didn't even think of calling Helm a sinner, additionally I mentioned that his critic (the point he made) is right!
Now, just some insight on how I think:
Because I teach in the uni, and in private lessons, you need always to take into account the person you're teaching and judge. I try to do that and see how it goes. I know for example that Geoffkhan and Mash potato can take all my critisism. I also know that fluke is also open to what I say. Thus I shoot away. I didn't know if Cameron was up to it (prolly not, as it shows), but further I didn't think it would benefit him, since he was obviosuly SO proud of what he did, to start criticising away, without even mentioning any merrits at all...
I think you'll remember my many times post "I'm no graphic guru, so wait for others, but here and ...". I mention this as really I know very little about graphics and act out of instinct. sometimes, when I see someone who is doing his best, there is little reason of showing him what the great masters could do, and thus send his works to rubbish (no, Helm did NOT do that here, or in any case that I'm aware of).
Bottom line, he could've said things much better, and Cameron could also use an apologise from Helm. This is how I see it.
As for Helm vs Me. I hope that I've grown through this. Do you recall me telling off to Rental shutdown in a flukes thread? Or to SD? Ot to Adam for posting too much, or whatever? I do tend to speak my mind... I enjoy more and more Helms' posts and I can read through his words to take what's positive in them. Plus I have decided and hardened myself (not because of Helm, Christ no), so I can take pretty much almost anything...
By all means, this probably needs to end...
I hope I haven't offended Helm. I was simply speaking my mind.
I like what Cameron did and for a 17 year old it's great, judging from what he's done before! Do post again Cameron! I'm looking forward to more of your music (and btw, quit that original thingy from myspace, indeed ;D)
Nacho won already, no reason for Nik to try anything at all ;)
Quote from: Jesus Juice on Thu 24/05/2007 16:57:15
Perhaps I lack imagination but I truly have trouble seeing how anyone can take such feedback onboard and alter their music in a positive way from those two sentences.
I don't know what to attribute it to, you know better. But yes, perhaps you lack something or another.
QuoteAs such, I am unable to define that as "constructive criticism." So I suppose the question is: what kind of criticism is it? And to what purpose was it posted?
Are you asking me this? Or are you engaging in dialogue with yourself?
QuotePerhaps the statement that they could "make it big" as an unlikable coporate rock act was actually intended as a sincere and heartfelt compliment and not as a backhanded insult? Who knows, perhaps it was.
I have no love for corporate anything, and I do not think 'making it' should be a priority for artists, but the music Cameron is making, supposing further benefit from wise-old-producers, can be marketed and liked and people can make money off of it. Anyone can make of this what they want. Cameron could be tomorrows' generic guitar pop superstar. I brought to his attention that his claims for originality were unfounded in my opinion, and that was that. The dark sinister motives I leave to you to map out, as you seem so eager.
I am sorry... I think that "You are good! But not very original..." Can' t be expressed "in a so much better" way... ::)
It's not even a bad crit. If he is going to tell "Fuck you", to anyone criticising him, he should retire... now... quickly. If Cameron expects that every person opining about his work is going to do it in the gentle way that a good university teacher does, he should re-think about starting a career as a musician.
To be honest... To be terribly honest, I think he expected 50 replies telling him how good he is, and, as soon as the things twisted a bit (a bit) from the original script, he reacted in a childish manner.... Sorry. It's not the way a rockstar should react... :P
And "sin" and "sinner" was a metaphor, my friend... :) End of the discussion from my point of view. :)
Quote from: Nacho on Thu 24/05/2007 16:31:33
Now, where is the "This community is utterly different sometimes" Huw?
I refuse to answer the question unless I understand the question, ergo I give no comment.
There are ALOT of unhappy feelings around here ever since that religious thread. I think everyone needs to bury the hatchet and move on really.
- Huw
Huh?
What unhappy feelings? towards whom? Now, HUw, I fail to understand what you're saying...
???
I think what he means is that he hates religious people, but hey, don't we all.
Edit: Here're my opinions. Take them if you want. :p
Gone: Oh, the vocals and music were really shaky and basically, the band needed to get more coordination between the members. Sorry, I stopped listening before the song was done.
Midnight envy: Was this one recorded before the Tree Song? The music was a lot better in this one, than in Gone. Although, the vocals were still kinda shaky and still quite off-key.
The Tree song: Not bad even if you guys sound pretty similar to many other groups. There is still a future for you , man, because you guys play with emotion. Vocals really sound good in this one like you've just got a lot better. And it's because the singer got better and not because of production techniques, right?
My suggestions? Try listening to and experimenting with different cultural instruments and even different musical styles and genres. The following lines are my opinions: You could go pure in terms of genre but it's your choice, really. Still, many of the really good groups actually experiment with various instruments and genres and throw in lotsa crazy stuff like noise and melody, beats, etc. Be open-minded and try and listen to the cutting edge groups and don't follow trends. Set it yourself, man.
Stay away from highly repetitive chords because I truly suspect that's going to go out of fashion soon and you don't want to screw yourself over. Likewise, don't stick to some signature sound which starts to sound the same two albums later. Of course, you probably know that sometimes when people go for "trends" and "fashions", they don't go for the music. They're just buying the concept.
Also, I'm sure you know groups/singers like Sonic Youth, Cocteau Twins, Alice Cooper, X Japan, Explosions in the sky(slightly repetitive but still good), Kyuss, etc., etc., doncha?
Im listening to the track (The tree song) rather than the arguement ;D
I think its Cool but repetative, hang on ! I just heard the Keys
Yeah tis really nice but the production work needs a few tweaks here and there (although this is not a mastered track ) I got into the track and listened to all the different instruments and i believe the guitar needs some sort of extra warmth venting from beneath the base (if you get me)
If you add a little more warmth to it it would be spot on Guv
When the drummer is fully comfortable with playing the song get him to work on some fills and off beats especially at the 1. min point
Do not worry about originality (to what alot of people understand as being Original ) This is something which is born into a band, your contributions as a band as a whole depend entirely on what is born from it.
Good work so Far
I cannot comment on Midnight envy as i thought it was to Oasis like (This is not a comparison i just wont listen to anything that reminds me of them )
I Feel that the track The Tree Song makes you seem like a cross between
Jefferson Airplane and my mates band Banana Haze oh and a lil bit of Jimmy H
But it has the bold aspect of (note not musical ) Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
Helm offered valid criticism, but you also have to think about the fact that he's very tenacious about what he likes - which is usually very specific and niche. He makes music himself, and it's in a completely different genre than Cameron's music.
Not everyone is going to like "your shit" - especially when it has a more mass and commercial appeal than what they're into. People with specific and niche tastes in art in music can often get upset when the genre they love, worship, adore and study isn't as popular as other forms. Not saying Helm is like that, as he's a very intelligent and broad thinking chap, but I know a lot of people that adopt the "everyone else is stupid for not liking what I like" mentality.
Bt
I think the most important resolution to this argument, is that I am playing the song on the radio, and you should all listen to me on the radio. This sunday. (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=29910.0)
I'm sorry to say Zooty, but your website is darn hard to navigate on...
Its not my website, it's the station's...and how is it hard to navigate? Just click "on air" to get to the schedule...
And click "listen now" to listen.
*falls apart in confusion
Quote"You are good! But not very original..."
It's important to note that Helm never
actually wrote this; in fact, he never said the music was good, the closest he came to a compliment was that the music was:
well-made mostly (a big-time producer would make it sound very marketable) and if you keep at it, you might make it big. I think the issue here isn't that you have an opinion (even a negative one) about something, Helm, but rather your sometimes crass approach to getting that point across. A statement to the effect that Cameron's music depresses you because it will be popular (in spite of your feelings that it's not special or particularly good) isn't constructive by any known definition and just makes you look like you're venting your own frustrations on Cameron. This isn't really an issue to argue about, and this thread isn't about 'wow helm is a dick/wow I agree with helm', it's about Cameron's music and whether you like it and find merit in it or not. If you don't that's fine, but you
also can state your opinions without being offensive. He might still dislike your comment, but writing 'while this music sounds like other music I've heard and doesn't really do anything for me, other people might like it and you will probably do well' would get your point across to him without insulting his effort quite so thoroughly.
If you can't understand the difference between stating your opinions in a thoughtful (towards the other person) and respectful manner and stating them callously then I don't know what to tell you, Helm. The same goes for everyone else: if you aren't looking for conflict then be mindful of what you post -- that's all!
Cameron: this isn't really my style of music so there isn't a lot I can say about it, though I think you have improved considerably over the last few tunes I heard from you.
I think that's a very catchy chorus. The solo needs some sprucing up, though.
QuoteI would change that concept to being a good but unoriginal band, rather than pretending we don't sound like anyone else
Prog, I think Helm mentioned "good but unoriginal". We could discuss forever if "I would change the concept" really means if he thinks they are good or not, but I think it "works" as a compliement.
Now, to Hew.
In your opinion, Helm pissed it off, and you pointed out "the irony" that "this community behaves different sometimes".
So, if I am not wrong, what you meant is that, if any other members "pisses it off", we, as a community, would react censoring him/her, but we didn' t with Helm. So, if I can read between lines, you are saying that we:
a)Have some kind of primal feal to Helm.
b)We are hipocrytal.
Both options have no sense... That' s what I pointed out as an example a member pissing it off (Cameron, telling people to fuck off) and we, as a community, not reacting. We do not automatically react jumping to a member' s jugular if someone pisses it off or makes an "unpleasent crit".
And now, to save time, I am goint to type your reply, so you can cut and paste and we save time:
QuoteMe accussing this community of being hypocrytal??? That' s completelly nuts! I have never said that! You are putting words in my mouth! I just pointed out that on any other forum Helm would have been warned repeatedly for attempting to start a flame war and that it is weird how utterly different this community is sometimes. That doesn' t mean that I think that this community does not have the guts to react in front of Helm' s constant attacks!!! I love Helm. I love this community, and I would never imply in any sentence that you said! You are taking things totally out of context! Man! In any other community you should be banned for that! Fuck you!!!
Progz, saying that something is marketable, with a potential of becoming big and sell well, is an enormous compliment.
99,9 % of all music placed on myspace and the likes will never even get close to a contract.
We really need to be less sensitive and more realistic here. People are allowed to vent their opinions, end of story. (They're not allowed to say "fuck off" on the other hand, but that's apparently another story.)
All publicity is good publicity. All attention is good attention. I remember how I posted a song here years ago and I got like two replies. I would have died to have someone tell me that it could be "big".
Jeez, really.
Quote from: Andail on Fri 25/05/2007 11:21:28
All publicity is good publicity. All attention is good attention. I remember how I posted a song here years ago and I got like two replies. I would have died to have someone tell me that it could be "big".
Would that be that madrigal with the guitar and the recorder thingy? What a great song indeed! I believe that I made 2 replies to that thread indeed! I really liked that song! :D
Hey, Petter... I have "when live was worth of living" in my Ipod, and I still hear it with joy! Cheer up! :)
Sorry about the "fuck you" thing, I did apolagise quite soon after, and I meant it. I'm quite proud that a lot of you think I could make it big, so thanks for saying so. And uh, this thread isn't really about what it was supposed to be about anymore, so I'll just step out til there are some new recordings and everyone settles.
Cheers,
-Cameron
Quote from: Zooty on Thu 24/05/2007 22:17:36
Its not my website, it's the station's...and how is it hard to navigate? Just click "on air" to get to the schedule...
And click "listen now" to listen.
*falls apart in confusion
Okaay... I click "on air", and eight new links appear, none of them actually named "listen now". I try to press what seems the most appropriate, "Listen Again", and I get this message: "Sorry...
Listen Again is currently unavailable".
I'm sorry to say, but the website has a generally confusing and annoying interface.. :P
Hello everyone!
"Tree song" is okay, the vocals are better than the other two songs, the second song down's vocals were unpleasant to listen to at one point.. actually tree song is totally better than the other two, it feels tighter. I know what I mean!
I remember Helm was particularly cruel when he ripped apart my older music, the first stuff I did on the PC. Sure I took all the critiscm given to me from AGS and elsewhere, the useful crits that is, and made songs people actually frikking like (For example "No one knows"), so that's good! But Helm said things uncalled for. As usual. But anyways...
Keep at it Cameron!
Yay, Thanks Sam, much appreciation. Cheers bud :D
Not my kind of music, but I do find it good and pleasant to listen to.
As everyone has said, the recording quality is poor, especially for songs 2 and 3. But, having composed music with similar (if not worse) sound quality, I think I can understand and appreciate where you are coming from and even "imagine" it in good quality.
My favourite of them three is Midnight Envy, assuming it was professionally recorded.
I don't think the music is very original, but I also don't think that music has to be original to be good. I also think that original music sometimes automatically means crap.
Keep it up!
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Sun 03/06/2007 18:47:20
I don't think the music is very original, but I also don't think that music has to be original to be good. I also think that original music sometimes automatically means crap.
It's getting the right balance of new stuff along with unoriginal stuff that's the key.
Songs 2 and 3 were done as demos on my home set up, I know they sound poor quality. Tree Song is a major step up for us, recording in my bass teachers studio, and yeah we know it's not super high studio quality, but we still reckon it's pretty good.
Alrighty folkys, two new tracks up at the moment. Make sure you listen to Alone because soon it'll come down so I can put up two more. Have a listen, say what you think, I wont bite this time :)
Cameron
What can I say, sounds great! I really like your style. If you guys stick together and really work on material, it could be a really tight band! You're definitely off to a good start.
I should send you some articles I have on songwriting... basically how hit tunes are constructed, etc. That would be if you want to go that route, getting air play, etc. Let me know.
EDIT: One last comment... I would've liked to hear an acoustic guitar on Alone... but it's fine electric, too. ;)
Hey man! That's some good music.
Way to go, Cameron!
Thanks Greg and Darcness :D
Also, two new tracks up so I had to take Alone down, new songs up are called Midnight Envy and One, also, check out our EP cover, our friend Adam did it. It's fingerpainting, and quite good.
Cheers
-Cameron