as the above states.
she told me da news, and she's been my best friend for ages.
i'm not a complete jackass, i mean, i don't care that much if it's someone else. but... someone who i've liked for ages going like that... just makes me wonder. i mean, plus she's gone waaaaayyyy goth. i dunno. any suggestions?
Suggestions about what? How does it affect you in any way? Also you might want to consider typing in english.
Just I mean, she's like 13, and ... that's really is a fine example of hormones screwing with you. I can tell you, next week she'll be straight again.
I mean, no-one's that sure of their sexuality at that age.
And if she is just a friend, it doesn't really affect you in any way. Now if she was a possible partner, then I'd be shattered.
Yeah what zor said. Don't let it get to you.
I'm sorry to be a dick, but I second typing in English. You know "the" isn't spelt with a 'd' and an 'a'. Also, you really need to explain that situation if you want any decent responses. Makes you wonder about what? Life?
My suggestion is to give her one behind the bike shed and put some sense back into her obviously screwed up mind. She obviously just needs a good man. I mean, a lesbian?? How dare she?! When you liked her for ages!
Your topic confuses the heck of out me. I know you're substituting a 'z' for an 's', but do you mean, "My friend is lesbian" or "My friend's lesbian" ie. "The lesbian belonging to my friend"?
Again, sorry for being a dick but I find it hard to help myself. If you want my serious advice, just accept it and please type a little more coherently.
EDIT: Also, "moderators suck"? I'm guessing for 'moderating' something you did, like violating the rules, right? Not terribly smart to insult them publicly though, is it?
EDIT: Zor - I agree that there're a LOT of lesbian-phases going on with the youth out there, but don't discount it completely. I was sure of my sexuality by the time I was 8, and most certainly by the time I was 13. It's not that uncommon.
I'd like to third the request for english. It is quite difficult to follow what you say sometimes. And how does being goth affect anything? Goth fashion or lifestyle?
This is the part where I say, "I'm a lesbian, too!"
Er...
I hope you get that joke because if you don't, I'm not going to explain it. :P
Psychologists agree that the best way to cure this is to tap the Ã, victim smartly on the eye two times, screaming at them to stop whispering.
Or listen to Kinoko, because she's obviously an expert.
I was going to say lots of things, but then I read Kinoko's post and she had already said pretty much everything. Only thing I want to quote from her: Remove the "moderators suck" text or someone can get very angry with you. And remove it quickly.
I was figuring the best thing to do with this thread was just to let it go. Ã, With the amount of thought, coherency, and subject matter put into this one, I don't know what kind of response you could get aside from, "That sucks.. Lesbians suck," or, "Tsk. Tsk. There, there." Ã,Â
Your phrasing/spelling would've been fine if it'd been a subject about a new movie, game idea or something where excitability comes across equally well despite it being chock full of "da's" and far too many Z's. Ã, The points already been made but the crux of it is the proof-reading icon under your name.
Anyone with anything useful to add has gone out on a limb and made assumptions about what you were communicating. Ã, Hardly efficient communication. Ã, What I gather is that she's a very good friend of yours but you would've liked there to be more to the relationship. Ã, At this point, she could be certain she's Female-Female, could still be Male-Female, or might be M/F-Female. Ã, Biding your time is about the best you can do at this point. Coupled with the goth bit, could be trying to find her identity or might've actually figured out what it is. Ã, If you're really her friend, you won't act as though the only possibility is identity-crisis. Ã, There's nothing wrong with thinking about that chance, but being supportive of your friends, even if you think they're wrong, is sometimes a necessary evil.
(Also, I'm not sure why you'd have to remove the moderators suck bit. If I were one, I'd find it about as offensive as being told that I suck, by a total stranger. Now, if it said I were a poopy-head that'd be different.)
Don't talk about that! If someone notices that I red this thread I will be acused of pedophilia!
I, among many others, have already suggested typing in English in the past. So my advise is to drop the AGS community off your mind for a short while, during which you find your way into her heart, and show her that it's just her imagination. Then if you feel like coming back here, remeber that the "Start new topic" button is a privilege, not a right. And do keep in mind that we appriciate proper grammar and punctuation too.
i'm guessing this girl is the same age as you? 13? well, her hormones are probably tearing her apart right now, and any decisions about sexuality are not to be taken seriously. I know plenty of girls who thought they were a lesbian, and even had girlfriends when they your 14-15, but now they know they're not. Its probably just hormones. But if its not, well, theres not much you can do about it, all you can do is be a good friend.
Quote from: Flukeblake on Sun 29/05/2005 08:06:04
i dunno. any suggestions?
Yeah, change your sentence under the avatar.
strange, all my gothic friends are bisexual.
Why are people here talking about being lesbian is some kind of sickness? If someone says that she is lesbian, take it serious, because then it is something she is really struggling with. And to be honest, if your not completely sure, youre not going to tell it for atleast when your 20 or something. Most people even keep it secret untill there death.
But again, please, don't treat begin lesbian as a sickness, thank you.
We aren't. You are the one who seems to be doing so "struggling with it". People in his thread have been making valid statements, it could possibly be a temporary thing.
Oh no, there's definite "struggling with it" involved. She can't have "made up her mind" (and I'm not implying here it's some kind of choice---but with the outside positive attitude people such as this thread's starter have ... it's hard to, let alone feel good about yourself, be certain).
I'd be surprised to know how Flukeblake reacted to his friend's announcement ... I mean, I know that at that age, that would've been like giving away my greatest secret, and putting myself in front of a Thespian trial. Be pissed that probably nothing can happen between you anymore, but feel good that she trusts you so much she would come clean with you. (I wouldn't have.)
Quote from: Zooty on Sun 29/05/2005 10:57:02
i'm guessing this girl is the same age as you? 13? well, her hormones are probably tearing her apart right now, and any decisions about sexuality are not to be taken seriously. I know plenty of girls who thought they were a lesbian, and even had girlfriends when they your 14-15, but now they know they're not. Its probably just hormones. But if its not, well, theres not much you can do about it, all you can do is be a good friend.
I actually was already very sure about my sexuality at the age of 13, and that as a boy. It's normally said that girls are 2 years ahead of boys in growth in that years, well don't know.
But it's true, I chatted with a boy a long time ago, he must have been 14 (i was 15 at that time), who thought he was bisexual, but later he meant that it was really just a phase. But maybe he only wanted that I stop flirting with him. ;)
Quote from: Remco on Sun 29/05/2005 11:44:43
Why are people here talking about being lesbian is some kind of sickness? If someone says that she is lesbian, take it serious, because then it is something she is really struggling with. And to be honest, if your not completely sure, youre not going to tell it for atleast when your 20 or something. Most people even keep it secret untill there death.
But again, please, don't treat begin lesbian as a sickness, thank you.
Well said. That sort of thing really gets on my nerves. We can say "it may be a phase". It may be! But assuming it is... well, you can't. Lots of people are very sure of themselves and mature enough to know their own sexuality at that age and even younger. You can't assume either way, just be supportive. Treating it like a "problem" was what got on my nerves the most. If you liked her, and now you find out she may be a lesbian, that's your problem and you can get over it. Just (and I'm not assuming you ARE, but just in case) don't act as if it's something you need to ween out of her for your own benefit.
The point that she must trust you to tell you something like that is a good one. If she trusts you so much, make sure you deserve that trust. Unless she just told you to scare you off @_@ Which sometimes happens.
Kinoko, I can tell this is something you take to heart.
Your post made me laugh (that last sentence really cracked me up ;D ), however I do disagree.
First all, I disagree that figuring whether you're gay or not at an early age has anything to do with maturity. While maturity perhaps does factor in, would you say that someone who doesn't know whether he is gay or not is immature? Furthermore, bisexuality makes it all the more that it's neither one or the other, at a time in your life where you're urged to make a great deal of make choices.
Environment factors in. Family factors in. Life experience, friends, everything factors in. To say that maturity is what determines your own reaction to homosexuality is, IMHO, a dualist way to see things.
Second, it *may* be a phase and it may not. But saying that you can't assume that it's a phase is just ridiculous. You can't assume either way. Best way to react is be supportive, but not OVERLY supportive (ie.: "I now see you only as a lesbian, and to me, you're too far gone to ever be anything else"). It is so confusing, when you're *not* quite sure, to have your friends peg you down as either way, and not let you "change" (again, not saying it's a choice).
Last, the "be supportive" thing, while it is the obvious, reasonable reaction to adopt, is not the easiest thing to do. People have problems with homosexuals, God knows why (and yes, I know how that goes, I have born agains in my family *sigh*). That's a general rule. I may be naïve, but I'm hoping people who start this kind thread (who ask this kind of question), aren't hoping to get a "You should call your closest catholic evangelist center and have her committed" kind of answer.
Saying, "if you're incomfortable, it's your problem" doesn't help those people, and it doesn't help their gay friends/family (and it certainly won't help you). It's not *their* problem, because nobody is living in a bubble.
That said, it's good to be feisty, and it's good to not let yourself be stomped over by stupidity and idiocraty (because, the Lord knows how quickly you'd end up with a fractured rib, broken skull and shattered legs). Rather taking out the Uzis for somebody who probably just had trouble expressing themselves (really, saying "she is struggling with" it, doesn't automatically mean the poster has a Freudian, "it's a disease" kind of opinion) ... is a bit counterproductive.
Quote from: Dowland on Sun 29/05/2005 15:29:56
First all, I disagree that figuring whether you're gay or not at an early age has anything to do with maturity. While maturity perhaps does factor in, would you say that someone who doesn't know whether he is gay or not is immature? Furthermore, bisexuality makes it all the more that it's neither one or the other, at a time in your life where you're urged to make a great deal of make choices.
*sigh* Okay, I didn't mean it the way you think. No, I wouldn't say that someone who doesn't know they're gay is immature, but as you said, it factors in.
Quote
Environment factors in. Family factors in. Life experience, friends, everything factors in. To say that maturity is what determines your own reaction to homosexuality is, IMHO, a dualist way to see things.
...and I didn't. Do we have to get into a discussion about the exact phychological factors surrounding homosexuality? I was just trying to say that you can't assume it's a phase, because for a lot of people, they know from an early age. It's a fact, and that's that.
Quote
Second, it *may* be a phase and it may not. But saying that you can't assume that it's a phase is just ridiculous. You can't assume either way. Best way to react is be supportive, but not OVERLY supportive (ie.: "I now see you only as a lesbian, and to me, you're too far gone to ever be anything else"). It is so confusing, when you're *not* quite sure, to have your friends peg you down as either way, and not let you "change" (again, not saying it's a choice).
But saying you can't assume it's a phase is ridiculous? No, it's not. You CAN'T. Just because you can't assume either way... I mean, that's a contradiction. I said to be supportive, but I didn't say go head over heels into supportive robot mode, did I? You can add your piece in, ie, "Be supportive, but not too supportive" without taking apart the things I said. I said 'be supportive', and I meant it. I don't think that statement implies "peg her down to it and make f*cking sure she doesn't back down, boy".
Quote
Last, the "be supportive" thing, while it is the obvious, reasonable reaction to adopt, is not the easiest thing to do. People have problems with homosexuals, God knows why (and yes, I know how that goes, I have born agains in my family *sigh*). That's a general rule. I may be naïve, but I'm hoping people who start this kind thread (who ask this kind of question), aren't hoping to get a "You should call your closest catholic evangelist center and have her committed" kind of answer.
Saying, "if you're incomfortable, it's your problem" doesn't help those people, and it doesn't help their gay friends/family (and it certainly won't help you). It's not *their* problem, because nobody is living in a bubble.
I said it's his problem if he liked her, and now finds out she's a lesbian, ie. Now she's out of reach, which is the 'vibe' his post gave off. Given that it was such a messy and barely comprehendable post in the first place,, of course I could have been wrong, but who the hell can make an accurate assumption. I assumed that's what he meant, and that's what I responded to. My implication was also that it shouldn't be HER problem. Whoever she is, she's probably having a hard enough time already without having to put up with his (possible) insecurities about the whole thing.
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That said, it's good to be feisty, and it's good to not let yourself be stomped over by stupidity and idiocraty (because, the Lord knows how quickly you'd end up with a fractured rib, broken skull and shattered legs). Rather taking out the Uzis for somebody who probably just had trouble expressing themselves (really, saying "she is struggling with" it, doesn't automatically mean the poster has a Freudian, "it's a disease" kind of opinion) ... is a bit counterproductive.
Sure, sure, but again, I'm responding to the feelings I get, and I think I made my point anyway. I wasn't personally talking about other posters here, just the OP because again, the 'vibe' I got was that this was a problem and we were supposed to give him tips to 'save her' from the dark side, goth as she may be.
EDIT: Especially when it's phrased "someone going like that"... we can talk about exactly what was meant all we like, but come on, it has a real negative implication, anyone can see that. I'm sorry, but it makes me angry, and I just don't feel like being all 'guidance councillor'. Tough love has it's advantages ^_^ Sometimes it does someone good to get ridiculed. Like a slap in the face when a friend wants to hold a funural for expired milk.
EDIT2: Seeing as I think I've made my point (and in a much more serious way that I'd originally intended), I'm gonna leave this alone now and go back to my Cities of Gold.
Kinoko, I wasn't personally aggressing you, but re-reading my post, it might have felt like it.
I have known, from experience, that many people's idea of being supportive isâ€"as a backfire of the at times homophobic climateâ€", indeed the "peg her down to it and make f*cking sure she doesn't back down, boy" (and those people generally think they're doing the person a service, by not letting him/her shy away, and constantly reaffirming support).
I'd generally say it's easier to fight unsupportive people, than to fight supportive people.
(Also, in a bout of irony, I'm quite happy to see this community has finally made the battle for better English, its own. ;D )
EDIT: Did you mean "Cities of Folds"? ;D Sorry! What's "Cities of Gold"?
I can't believe serious discussion ensued from fluke's original post in this thread.
Hey, what do you want ... “when life gives you lemons ...â€
It's the most awesome series ever ^_^ I'm reliving my childhood watching it right now. Kind of... an animated tv series, Japanese/French co-production, based around the Incas. Actually, 5 minutes ago, it got really f**king weird, and now there seem to be aliens.
Re: English - I'm really happy to be apart of the battle for decent spelling/grammar on these forums, because it seems to exist nowhere else. The other forums I frequent regularly are almost impossible to follow...
Yutz: It's ridiculous, I know -_-
When I want to relive my childhood, I watch Golden Girls (which I preordered the box sets as they where added to Amazon.com). :)
That apart, ... in the ways of awesome series, in the recent category, I'd have to put Veronica Mars. One helluva show, of which it's a marvel it survived through a second season (next year, on UPN).
Has nothing to do with manga ... but ...!
Quote from: Zooty on Sun 29/05/2005 10:57:02
i'm guessing this girl is the same age as you? 13? well, her hormones are probably tearing her apart right now, and any decisions about sexuality are not to be taken seriously. I know plenty of girls who thought they were a lesbian, and even had girlfriends when they your 14-15, but now they know they're not. Its probably just hormones. But if its not, well, theres not much you can do about it, all you can do is be a good friend.
Not being taken seriously is a major way of oppressing non-heterosexual people. I know plenty of girls who thought they were heterosexual, and even had boyfriends when they were your age 14-15, but know know they're not.
Never assume anything, but please do take people seriously. It is quite offending having to "prove" that you are one thing or the other. Why is it so hard to just accept people's sexuality without going "she's out of her mind because of the hormones" or "she's not old enough to be gay"? Why can't people be taken seriously even though they may change or redefine their sexuality later on?
Saying "it's just a phase, your sexuality isn't for real" is not very friendly in my humble opionion.
i did not mean that deviations from "the norm" aren't to be taken seriously. I meant any decisions. You can't be fully able to say whether you are gay OR straight at this age becuase your hormones tell you something different every two seconds. To expand on my point, i know a guy who was adement he was straight at the age of 13, but now nows he is gay. Please don't assume im "oppressing non-heterosexual people". I frankly couldn't give a shit about sexuality, it doesn't affect me in any way. All i'm saying is that decisions of this nature cannot be seen to be set in stone, as you said, because until you're a bit older and a bit less hormanal, you can never know for sure.
<summary in the name of efficiency>
Bah, more or less a lengthy post somewhere in between the two warring factions.
Disclaimer: I didn't read (couldn't be bothered) the entire thread here ...
Flukeblake - you're what? 14 years old? Your little "goth" friend is 13?
This is rediculous ...
"Well ... I'm just ... goth y'know? I'm just sick of everybody telling me what I can and can't do. I like girls."
Ugggghhh!
[napoleon dynamite] Gosh ... you're so retarded or something [/napoleon dynamite]
Jebuss ... you're frickin' children ... play with your GIJoes and your Barbies and leave sexual confusion until you're old enough to vote.
PS
When I was 14 I knew how to type/speak proper English too. I know you kids these days think it's hip to be dumb, but seriously ...
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 29/05/2005 17:28:49
Flukeblake - you're what?Ã, 14 years old?Ã, Your little "goth" friend is 13?
He's profile says 12.
no darf, it iz kewl to bee dum, u jzt donet no it, ure 2 oled to be kewl neway, and ure amerikan.
Flukeblake, please consider the 16+ age limit we have here.
And haven't we had enough discussions about homosexuality here already?