I'm a week late with this, but I was wondering if anybody caught (or will catch when it's on in your region) the Mythbusters moon landing episode.
If so, what are your thoughts? I'll withhold mine for now so as not to color the discussion right away.
They actually covered this? I think it's pretty much settled that the moon landing mission was in fact real.
All of the "evidence" of it being a conspiracy can be explained by science (much like many other conspiracy theories).
That was their statement from the very beginning of the episode. While it's not really "correct" to say that they proved that it wasn't a hoax, their mission was to take several of the most popular claims and show that they're flawed... that a flag can flap about for a moment in a vaccuum, for instance.
I have not seen it but I am very interested. I mean I'm a rational human being so obviously the human race landed on the moon but still, I like Mythbusters when they bust myths and this is something that is important. More people will watch their show than visit the badastronomy blog so hooray!
Agreed, Mythbusters is an awesome show. I wonder... will they ever tackle the 9/11 conspiracies? I bet they could fill an entire season with just that subject material, LOL.
But yeah, this is an important issue to address. I wish I remembered to add Mythbusters to my TiVo recording list, otherwise I wouldn't have missed this.
There are a few videos on YouTube, however. Dunno if those were part of the episode in question. Just search for "mythbusters moon".
Here are the claims that they tackled. I left their resolution of the subject hidden in case you get the chance to check it out and want it to be fresh.
1. The photo of the lunar lander with some rocks in the foreground was obviously faked because the shadows of the rocks and the lander are not parallel. This is impossible since there's only one light source on the moon.
Spoiler
All they had to do was build a scale replica of the scene in the photo. At first, the theorists' claims appeared true. All they had to do was change the landscape a bit. They put a tiny hill of dirt that obscured the lander's actual shadow, proving that the discrepancy could have been the result of basic topography.
2. The photo of Neil Armstrong descending from the lunar lander was obviously faked because although he was standing in a dark shadow, he was well lit.
Spoiler
Space suits and the surface of the moon are both reflective. Enough said. They built a scale model to prove the point once again.
3. The video of the flag being planted was obviously faked because you can see it flapping even though there's no air on the moon.
Spoiler
Well, they manipulated an identical flag in a vacuum chamber. Not only can a flag flap in a vaccuum, it can do so better than it can outside of one. The movement of the flag was the result of momentum, not wind. If there's no air, there is less force to stop the object in motion... it's all about Newton, but not in the way that the theorists thought.
4. The images of the bootprint on the surface of the moon cannot be real; there isn't any moisture on the moon, therefore there's no binding agent to keep the print in such a clean shape.
Spoiler
Well, when you use a moondust analogue, it works fine even in a vacuum chamber. Turns out that the moon is not covered in sand. Who'd have figured, right?
5. The moonwalk videos could have been easily faked by filming at a higher speed, which would result in a video with slower footage
Spoiler
Well, they could have been, sure. But when you film someone at a higher speed and then let the same person walk in a low-to-no-G environment (filmed at regular speed), there is very little room for comparison between the two. The astronauts were definitely walking in low-G.
Did they happen to have Phil Plait on that episode at all?
I don't recall him actually appearing, but he was contacted a long time ago by the producers and asked if there's anything in particular he'd like to contribute.
Yes, the awesome, was awesome. I don't have cable, but I do have access to the Internet, so I watched a streaming video version. "Take that, conspiracy theorists!" ;D
(Actually, I don't have access to the Internet, I just have a Morse code tapper hooked up to the cable lines.)
I caught this episode too. I still think it was a hoax. The flag waving around didn't seem realistic to me, but then again:
Spoiler
The shadow test they did with the little moon setup is real...
Falcon Punch! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKxAqpjroo)
I think, this thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=33239.0) covered all of this pretty enough.l
Quote from: Lionmonkey on Thu 04/09/2008 21:47:22
I think, this thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=33239.0) covered all of this pretty enough.l
??? ??? ???
But there were no mustachioed men in berets
whatsoever in that thread.
Quote from: R4L on Thu 04/09/2008 20:15:31
I caught this episode too. I still think it was a hoax. The flag waving around didn't seem realistic to me, but then again:
Spoiler
The shadow test they did with the little moon setup is real...
Well, do not forget, there was difference between the waving flag they tested in the vacuum chamber, and the natural, vacuum where Apollo did it. Namely, it was on the moon. Where things have the same mass, but less weight. From what I understand, this would have an effect. As well, the vacuum was much harder on the moon. It also didn't seem realistic, because your mind is used to how things are on earth, with 15 psi atmosphere, and 1 g gravity. One needs to look at evidence, not ones preconceived notions and biases. I am sorry I can't explain better, the flag waving isn't one of my 'expert areas' though I know a little. ANy further questions I am more then happy to try and answer.
Check out Clavius Moon Base (http://www.clavius.org/) Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/index.html) and Svector's Youtube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/svector) for some really enlightening pieces of evidence that should answer many of your questions. And do some research of your own, few things are more satisfying then finding the truth for yourself.
Cheers.
I bet Adam and Jamie could devise a nice rocket with BUSTER inside and send it to the Moon. :)
Mythbusters seem to always have a marathon on weekends, so i will have to look for that episode.
We are on the Fucking Moon! Jesus H Christ. Holy Fuck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoU33OQ8BPI
It's amazing that after scientific shows like Mythbusters, as well as other shows that have already proved conspiracy theories about the moon landings wrong, there are still people who desperately cling to their notions that if they agree with what the mainstream media says, that somehow they are sheep and following blindly.
Sometimes a cigar... is just a cigar. Why NOT take things at face value? Is it really so hard to believe that we landed on the moon? God, with the technology and accomplishments that we've had over the past few decades, is it really that hard to believe?
The only "evidence" given against the moon landings being real have already been proven inaccurate or ill-conceived. Everything can be explained scientifically and realistically. Just because one doesn't understand the physics and science fully does not mean the science is wrong.
If one doesn't know about the speed of light being the physical speed limit for all matter, does that mean that person is correct in saying that it is a conspiracy and a lie that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light? No, it just means they are ill-informed, uneducated, and misled.
For some reason, devout conspiracy theorists get mad when you agree with mainstream media. What next, the sun isn't really a big star in space? It's really just a big light in the sky that the government rotates around the Earth? Jesus H. Christ, conspiracy theorists need to get a grip on reality and try to stop being warriors.
Buzz really punched that dude good. And you know what? He deserved every knuckle.
Watched this mythbusters on-line.
I have always known NASA went to the moon, mythbusters just proved that it wasn't faked. Particularly when they proved that the running/jumping bit had to be in 1/6 gravity. It would be pretty hard to deny their evidence too, as they are the guys that would have been doing the fakery!
Bravo Busters!
Bill Clinton can't get a blow-job without the world knowing about it.
And people honestly think a secret this big could be kept for 40 years?
Hi, I'm reality ... have we met??
Considerings I have talked to deluded Youtubers who think that because the Hubble, which has hourse long exposure time,and an over 2 meter sized mirror, can take pictures of stars, so can a dinky little hasselblad with a 2 inch (I think) lens and a maximum 1 second exposure time can, and who think that the moon set was set in a giant cavern deep enough underground that the gravity was only 1/6th g, I don't think they even live on the same planet.
Quote from: lo_res_man on Fri 05/09/2008 19:21:01
Considerings I have talked to deluded Youtubers who think ... // ... that the moon set was set in a giant cavern deep enough underground that the gravity was only 1/6th g...
Hah! That's an interesting theory, though! I think I'd more likely believe that the moonjump scenes were filmed on
Pluto than in a cave
that big
that deep underground!
Yes, it is certainly one of my favorite for 'They know not what they do' god darn, STUPIDITY. On other conspiracy theories, I have heard of Hurricane Powered Dustifacation Telsa Coils were what brought down the Twin Towers. I would laugh at that, except real people died in that incident. Back to the Apollo Hoax, someone claimed that filling the set with helium provided the 1/6th gravity effect. Same person I believe claimed that there was no way that they could have been on the moon is a vacuum, and that without an atmosphere to buoy them up, they would be crushed by the gravity. The list of stupid goes on and on. What is equally sad is people really seem to believe this crappage, it is no joke, no prank as far as I can tell.
I don't know...
I like conspiracy theories. They are always creative and somewhat waking up from usual law-abiding power-believing citizen slumber. Even if they're stupid, "what if"-factor always remains... somewhere. And they make helluva good tv-series, like 24 or X-Files.
Main problem with most conspiracies are that they assume the Dark Force (Government, Intelligence, Military, NASA, whatever) is something other than bunch of janes and joes doing their daily job. If I look at my government, if makes me always laugh. There's hundred of fat, lazy, quite stupid... yet greedy and ambitious men. Many of them make an public issue about things that make even kids laugh. They have often more trouble figuring simple things out than other, normal people.
Can it be so different - in - US for example? I don't think so.
There's several bits of that mythbusters episode over youtube, but I didn't like it much. Mainly because a conspiracy theories about moon hoax sound much more interesting and convincing than their simple, boring experiments.
I don't buy the hoax theory though. Then again, I don't care much. Cold war was stupid, and instead of climbing to the moon, americans could have a hot war instead and cleanse earth from soviet repression for once and all. Before it grew so damn large.
Well, instead there was a cold war,were far fewer people died, and most of those in some very hot 'limited wars' and 'police actions' (some of the worst weasel words invented, in my opinion.) And in the end it grew so big it imploded on itself. No kick needed, the whole rotten mess just fell down.
I grant you, 'what-if' can be fun, but for many of these people it isn't a 'what if', it is the only 'what'. I guess the initial conspiracies involving the moon landing were somewhat creative, but most now are either trite repetition of already disproved ideas (Where are the stars? Right where they should be for a picture with that aperture and exposure time). And the 'creative' ones, are so gosh darn crazy, it makes you pity the human race. It isn't just a funny theory, they accuse the brave men who went of lying, and NASA of murdering the Challenger and Apollo 1 crews, and anyone else involved who dies by their version of 'suspiciously'. (Like James Irwin, who died 'suspiciously' of a heart attack, after having survived several.)
I am not saying the US government doesn't keep secrets, not even always for good reasons. But looking at the facts, learning the science, and digging deeply and honestly can only lead to the conclusion that we went to the moon. I think the idea, that went to the moon, much more cool then a story that says we didn't.
And that is another thing. People the world over, say "we went to the moon:, not just in America. Why? Because it was one of humanities greatest achievements, a dream as old as flight. And that is something, very cool, and something definitely to be proud.
I am Lo_Res_Man, Apollo Nutter, and Certified Space Cadet, good night!
Sometimes people like to theorise conspiracies because well... it's entertaining, it's interesting and more importantly, it's in our human nature to question those things which seem too good to be true.
Regardless of whether or not the moon landings were real, the fact of the matter is that conspiracies of all kinds DO EXIST, and I for one am glad that there are people out there who like to question the system... just in case... if we all took everything at face value then we would all be living in 1984.
PS... Is Jesus' middle name Horace?
Quote from: lo_res_man on Fri 05/09/2008 19:21:01
who think that the moon set was set in a giant cavern deep enough underground that the gravity was only 1/6th g
Quote from: lo_res_man on Fri 05/09/2008 20:08:20
someone claimed that filling the set with helium provided the 1/6th gravity effect. Same person I believe claimed that there was no way that they could have been on the moon is a vacuum, and that without an atmosphere to buoy them up, they would be crushed by the gravity.
I tend to think someone was putting you on. Those explanations are too perfectly bizarre to be real.
Hi reality! I'm a sad, pathetic loser with nothing better to do than spread lies, take quotes out of context, misunderstand science and physics, and insult people who lived the experience! A/S/L?
I just watched it, sadly I can see how conspiracy theorist jerks could pick the experiments apart and try to discredit the whole thing but I'm glad they did it.
It's weird that they used a sun substitute to emulate the sun when they could have just used the sun?
Quote from: Snarky on Sat 06/09/2008 04:08:20
Quote from: lo_res_man on Fri 05/09/2008 19:21:01
who think that the moon set was set in a giant cavern deep enough underground that the gravity was only 1/6th g
Quote from: lo_res_man on Fri 05/09/2008 20:08:20
someone claimed that filling the set with helium provided the 1/6th gravity effect. Same person I believe claimed that there was no way that they could have been on the moon is a vacuum, and that without an atmosphere to buoy them up, they would be crushed by the gravity.
I tend to think someone was putting you on. Those explanations are too perfectly bizarre to be real.
Well, one inconceivable seemed rather convinced of it (http://apollohoax.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=displayhread=2019&page=1) I admit the other one I got second hand. And these aren't explanations, they are hoax claims. They are but the tip of the iceberg of an Arctic Circle of stupid. I have no way of knowing if someone really believes this or not, but the cave propionate seemed earnest, sadly enough.
There should be a big, flashing white text saying "THIS IS WHAT MOON LANDING HOAX THEORISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE".
Quote from: TerranRich on Sat 06/09/2008 05:47:37
There should be a big, flashing white text saying "THIS IS WHAT MOON LANDING HOAX THEORISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE".
The real fun begins when THEY start disagreeing with each other, due to the mutually inconsistent nature of many of the claims.For example, the obvious reason to fake the moon landing would be to fool the Soviet. Ask almost any Apollo Hoax CT, and they will agree with this.However, if you ask them why the Soviets never called foul, even though they tracked the Apollo missions just as closely as NASA, most will say that the US government paid off the Soviets. Proof of this is never offered.
People actually watch Mythbusters for reasons other than Kari Byron?
Nope.
(http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/05/mythbuster-kari.jpg)
;D
Just like people only watching Tech TV only for Morgan Webb.
You must be excruciately dumb to belive the moon landing to be a hoax..
Or excruciatingly dumb even.
Belive, I want to do an excruiately moon landing too!
1) Kari Byron is hotter in the episodes than in those photos... I can' t understand why she has been un-sexied in a sexy photo shoot.
2) Extraordinary claims do need extraordinary evidences. That a man walked in the moon is an extraordinary claim. Do we have extraordinary evidences to support that? Yeah... Videos, witnesses, moon rocks, million of emplyees working in the project who never confessed... We went to the moon: The extraordinary claim now is to say we DIDN'T went to the moon. Is that claim supported by extraordinary evidences? Let' s see...
The "conspiranoia" was started with a book called "We never want to the moon", by Bill Kaysing. He claims to have worked for the NASA.
Let' s examinate this with an example:
If a man tells me that he was a mechanic of the Ferrari Formula 1 Scuderia and that all Michael Schumacher' s victories were a hoax, that he had some kind of "auto-pilot device", I might be inclined to believe him, since he was there and he could know about what he was telling; But... what about if he worked in the 80ies for an enterprise that would finally do screws for FIAT, before the Schumacher era, in spite of working in the Ferrari Formula 1 Scuderia? Would you believe him?
That' s what happens with Kaysing: He never worked for Nasa... He was a SPOKESMAN of an enterprise (Rocketdyne) that was doing components for the NASA. he abandoned the enterprise before the enterprise started working on the Saturn...
What does his book say? It' s a 87-page silly book with dozens of pics, photocopies, none of them related with the moon... Some of them include ladies in bikini, with claims like:
(http://blogs.elcorreodigital.com/blogfiles/magonia/Kaysing1.jpg)
"The Nevada desert was chosen to film the hoaxes because there were a lot of nice girls and Casinos in Las Vegas, ideal for the pilots to relax after the missions"
So, according to Kaysing, Armstrong went to the "studio", filmed the hoax, and then went to "The Miracle" to play some hands of poker... Ok...
Some other "claims" by Kaysing include the assessination of the three astronauts in Apollo 1 because "They were going to tell the world the truth" Ok... That means that:
a)The Nasa knew they knew they were not going to arrive to the moon since the start of the project.
b)Grissom and the others knew about the hoax, were going to confess, but they agreed to participate on it. A bit contradictory.
Most of the other "evidences" come, surprisingly, from the arsenal of Nasa Footage... Those claims are very well known and have been already debunked.
And of course, the biggest evidence for WE DID GO TO THE MOON. Russians, the most interested in the end of the space race being a hoax, who surelly investigated every inch of Nasa footage with magnifier never complained.