One of the coolest things I have ever seen ...

[evenwolf]

But I really can't see the benefit of getting some guy on the moon just to discover there's nothing there.

I feel like a broken record in an auditorium for the School of the Deaf.

There are impact craters and marias on the Moon.   If you feel that meteors alone are not important... then consider one day that all your descendants will be suffocated by the impact of one.









Just a tiny one



Anyone who feels the urge to say "spend our Earth dollars on this instead" has some perverted idea that Earth money is actually worth something.    The day the first human went into orbit... everything else was merely a notion, an expression.     Breaking the threshold into space is more meaningful to the human species than anything else.    I find it incredible that you guys read and watch sci fi books & films go so far as to play games like Spore, and are so blind to these concepts.  With all due respect, WAKE UP.

[Tuomas]

If you feel that meteors alone are not important...

I'm sorry, but where actually did I ever say that?

[scotch]

Lets not have another argument about if space exploration is worth doing, we had one in the moon landing/hoax thread and it was ridiculous enough there. The biggest benefits that have come from space research investment are fairly obvious (eg satellites), but if you think it's not worth the money, fair enough, that's something people could debate forever. When you consider how small an amount of money is spent on space compared to other less productive things though, perhaps it will seem less of a waste. Personally, even if nothing earthly had come out of space exploration I would still support it, on the basis of how cool it is.

I'm not really sure what you're saying about meteors though, evenwolf... how did going to the moon teach us much about that? We could see them from here just fine. The moon landings in themselves didn't teach us any really big things I can think of, but that doesn't make them pointless.

[evenwolf]

I'm sorry, but where actually did I ever say that?

You inferred that learning about meteors (ie. landing on the moon) was rather useless.

I'm not really sure what you're saying about meteors though, evenwolf... how did going to the moon teach us much about that?

scotch:   Craters are preserved on the Moon.   They are victims of erosion on Earth.  So the frequency and size, hell everything about impact craters that can't be observed on Earth is right up there smiling down at us.

Google Daniel Barringer

It actually took a really really really long time for the scientific community to recognize impact craters here on Earth.    And from the evidence on the Moon ( which is 2 percent the size of the Earth ) we know there is a HUGE history or meteor impacts that we can no longer see on the Earth's surface.   Due to the cycling process of rocks on this planet.

[Matti]

There are impact craters and marias on the Moon.   If you feel that meteors alone are not important... then consider one day that all your descendants will be suffocated by the impact of one.

Ah, that's the NASA "mission" you mentioned..

1. Do you think landing on the mars and disovering ice will help us redirect or destroy deadly asteroids?

2. Do you really think the possible impact of an asteroid is a serious threat to mankind? At the moment? Yeah, perhaps in 2000 years there is one coming towards earth, and then perhaps we have devices to prevent it from crashing on the ground, but should that really matter to us now? And why?

Anyone who feels the urge to say "spend our Earth dollars on this instead" has some perverted idea that Earth money is actually worth something.    The day the first human went into orbit... everything else was merely a notion, an expression.

So your point is: Money doesn't matter on earth, but going to space is important??     

Breaking the threshold into space is more meaningful to the human species than anything else.

And so does it seem. But that applies only to (bored) wealthy people. A man without regular meals or education would hardly be particularly interested in space exploration. But if so, there's something going wrong I think.

I find it incredible that you guys read and watch sci fi films, and are so blind to these concepts.  With all due respect, WAKE UP.

Yeah, wake up. I find it incredible that you are afraid of meteor impacts by just watching sci-fi-movies..


Edit:  Whole point was: The billions spent are NOT worth it (as I said before). And I haven't heard one genuine argument against that statement.

[evenwolf]

1. Do you think landing on the mars and disovering ice will help us redirect or destroy deadly asteroids?

Yes.

2. Do you really think the possible impact of an asteroid is a serious threat to mankind? At the moment? Yeah, perhaps in 2000 years there is one coming towards earth, and then perhaps we have devices to prevent it from crashing on the ground, but should that really matter to us now? And why?

Ah, true wisdom.   "Let's wait and develop technology to save the planet 2000 years from now.... when all my descendants will be even less informed and less enthusiastic about the universe than I am."

So your point is: Money doesn't matter on earth, but going to space is important??     

Money doesn't solve problems.  Human ambition and collaboration does.   Money just motivates.


Where did you get the impression I've even seen a disaster movie?    No, sorry I took college courses.   This shit is real, Mr. Nostradamus.  Go consult your local scientist .   You may have to wait until your neighbors are done throwing rocks at him.

Edit:  Whole point was: The billions spent are NOT worth it (as I said before). And I haven't heard one genuine argument against that statement.

Gee, Mr. President may we pweeeeeeeeeese go to space? 

[Matti]

Ok, I think I will answer tomorrow or perhaps this evening for it will be a long post (and I need time to do that in English). But you could perhaps expand your first answer.

[scotch]

"Do you think landing on the mars and disovering ice will help us redirect or destroy deadly asteroids?" Going to space certainly will help if that's what you want, and there are projects that address this problem specifically.

"Do you really think the possible impact of an asteroid is a serious threat to mankind?"
It's a serious, but unlikely threat, it will happen again, perhaps not soon, but we should probably learn to deal with it at some point don't you think?

"So your point is: Money doesn't matter on earth, but going to space is important??"
No, I think money is important on Earth as well as in space. I think spending 0.6% of the US budget on doing enlightening and inspiring things in space is justifiable.

[evenwolf]

Listen to scotch.   After all there are astronomers whose job it is to track all the meteors more than a kilometer wide that could potentially cross paths with Earth:

Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking System
Linear Asteroid Detection Project
Catalina Sky Survey
Loneos Program
Spacewatch Program


Not to mention comets.   Comets are just random as hell... we wouldn't even see it coming.

[Tuomas]

Ah, Evenwolf. If you reply with such and idiotic attitude like you did to Matti, you might wonder why they keep arguing. And in the end, you'll never win anyones respect or any argument, other than the ones in your head you're apparently building up here. Anyway, I prefer telling my opinion as long as it stays civilised, but when a  moderator comes and asks people to stop, you follow that with insults. And be sure, that with your comments, you're taking the whole base from your ocean of facts, simply by making everything you say seem like it comes from a jerk off. And you might want to think of that next time.

[evenwolf]

your comments, you're taking the whole base from your ocean of facts, simply by making everything you say seem like it comes from a jerk off.

Look, for those of you who think space is a waste of time, the stakes are just a couple billion dollars.


For me, the stakes are the future of mankind.  I get frustrated. I get uppity. It happens.   I say to ensure the safety of our species we should double the budget for NASA.    But so many people want to cut it back?  My reaction is rage.   There's no convincing everyone of precise geological details.

[EldKatt]

I'm not going near this discussion itself, but if you want to change any portion of the public opinion, there are better places to do it than in the Adventure Game Studio forum. I realize it's easy to get involved in any discussion about a topic you care about, but sometimes you might benefit from putting the discussion itself into the proper perspective, and making a judgment of whether or not you're just wasting your time and emotional involvement. If you've done this and still think it's worth it, I couldn't care less, but I think it's worth thinking about at least twice. I'm with scotch: this has been discussed to death.

[Darth Mandarb]

For me, the stakes are the future of mankind.  I get frustrated. I get uppity. It happens.   I say to ensure the safety of our species we should double the budget for NASA.    But so many people want to cut it back?  My reaction is rage.   There's no convincing everyone of precise geological details.

This is the problem as I see it too!  Because so many people [seem to] have the attitude, "well it'll be long after I'm gone so why worry about it?"  This is epitomized in the attitudes many in the world have today.  We've become a reactive species when we should be a proactive one.

If an asteroid/comet were to impact the earth (assuming it wasn't a global-killer) I think the human species would be able to react and adapt and carry on.  Perhaps not in a manor that would agree with most of us these days but we are, after all, a very resilient species.  However I contend; why wait to see how we'd react were that impact to occur if we can be proactive and prevent having to find out in the first place?  To me, this is common sense logic.

I'm not going near this discussion itself, but if you want to change any portion of the public opinion, there are better places to do it than in the Adventure Game Studio forum. I realize it's easy to get involved in any discussion about a topic you care about, but sometimes you might benefit from putting the discussion itself into the proper perspective, and making a judgment of whether or not you're just wasting your time and emotional involvement. If you've done this and still think it's worth it, I couldn't care less, but I think it's worth thinking about at least twice. I'm with scotch: this has been discussed to death.

Just because the topic has been "discussed to death" doesn't mean it's off-limits!  I can't recall taking part in any conversation/debate about this topic on these boards (maybe mentioned here or there, but never debated/discussed in this fashion at least).

There might be "Better" avenues for this discussion than the AGS boards ... however, if a person/group wants to get people motivated and/or believing in their "cause" the more exposure the better.  So I would argue that a general discussion board on an adventure game website is a perfectly acceptable place.  It might spark an interest in somebody that would have no other way to learn of the topic.

This is, after all, the gen-gen

[Tuomas]

For me, the stakes are the future of mankind.  I get frustrated. I get uppity. It happens.   I say to ensure the safety of our species we should double the budget for NASA.    But so many people want to cut it back?  My reaction is rage.   There's no convincing everyone of precise geological details.

This is the problem as I see it too!  Because so many people [seem to] have the attitude, "well it'll be long after I'm gone so why worry about it?"  This is epitomized in the attitudes many in the world have today.  We've become a reactive species when we should be a proactive one.

If an asteroid/comet were to impact the earth (assuming it wasn't a global-killer) I think the human species would be able to react and adapt and carry on.  Perhaps not in a manor that would agree with most of us these days but we are, after all, a very resilient species.  However I contend; why wait to see how we'd react were that impact to occur if we can be proactive and prevent having to find out in the first place?  To me, this is common sense logic.

Excuse me, but what the hell? Are we talking about using our resources to saving people that don't even exist, and for the love of God, if we carry on as we don't, most probably will never be born? The ancient Romans didn't think about people 2000 AC because they had only so much resources and their OWN problems. I'm sorry, but I'm more concerned about making sure that my own children won't have to generate means of breathing carbon dioxide with three hands a spontaneous illumination coming from their arses while they're runnign from floods. No, I'm not overreacting. If I say we're not living a status quo, I mean, that we're already headed to shit, and in my honest opinion this means a freaking meteor that might of might not collide us after me and my grand grand grand grand grand ... children are all dead, is not the thing we ought to worry about. Especially whent hey won't even be born at the time.

Man, there's plenty of time to develop a space shuttle to evacuate the Earth, but would we even have anything to evacuate? I'd rather live in the moment myself rather than really start designing jedi-lazer-swords with which to defend myself when the time comes and I wake from my timetravel tube and am the only person in the world aside from shitloads of robots.

You can't really expect people to understand, if you call them ignorant (no, not a literal quote) for not wanting to waste their OK welfare and healthcare into this. We'd be like Noah building a boat in the middle of a forest fire thinking there'd be a rain, when the last one was years and years ago. There are risks and issues, and there are real risks and issues that actually need to be dealt with. I'd rather die knowing, that because of me, some people might die at some point in the future rather than that my decisions made people who actually were born miserable or perhaps even caused the deaths of some. And I don't mean just space exploration, obviously, but this gives a fairly good example, seeing as how this whole thread is about it.

[Matti]

Well, that is common sense logic.

Thanks, Tuomas, you've written down what I was thinking all the time..

Let's see if we can solve the urgent social, economical and environmental problems within the next several hundred years.

If we do: Well, than let's explore space, have fun and learn about the origin of earth.

If mankind finally semi-consciously comitted suicide: A meteor impact would be nothing to worry about anymore.

[Darth Mandarb]

I'm sorry, but I'm more concerned about making sure that my own children won't have to generate means of breathing carbon dioxide with three hands a spontaneous illumination coming from their arses while they're runnign from floods. No, I'm not overreacting.

That's good to know.  That's [somewhat] proactive instead of reactive as I'm sure, at present, your own children do not have spontaneous illumination coming from their arses.  However, if they do, I suggest youTube ... it'd be a huge hit.

Man, there's plenty of time to develop a space shuttle to evacuate the Earth, but would we even have anything to evacuate? I'd rather live in the moment myself rather than really start designing jedi-lazer-swords with which to defend myself when the time comes and I wake from my timetravel tube and am the only person in the world aside from shitloads of robots.

As I've stated previously, TETO (to each their own).  To my way of thinking that's a dangerous attitude to have.  This is, of course, just my opinion ... I'm not judging anybody for having their own thoughts and feelings.

Well, that is common sense logic.

Again, funny how people see things so differently.  And, to my own credit, I said it was common sense logic to "ME" ... not that it was common sense logic definitively.

[Matti]

Man, there's plenty of time to develop a space shuttle to evacuate the Earth, but would we even have anything to evacuate? I'd rather live in the moment myself rather than really start designing jedi-lazer-swords with which to defend myself when the time comes and I wake from my timetravel tube and am the only person in the world aside from shitloads of robots.

As I've stated previously, TETO (to each their own).  To my way of thinking that's a dangerous attitude to have.

I think the main problem here is not that some people don't care about the future and others do (what you called reactive and proactive). The problem seems to be that we all set different priorities of what has to be done. Some people (like Tuomas and me) think that what mankind does is a much greater threat than the possibility of a meteor hitting earth, at least at the moment. So I think that we have to focus and put our energy on these urgent problems before dealing with something that perhaps will never happen.

As for your statement about us being a reactive species: I sadly agree, especially with regard to what we do to nature. But there again: If we've destroyed the basis of existence we don't have to care about any threats anymore... it's really just a thing of priorities..

This is, of course, just my opinion ... I'm not judging anybody for having their own thoughts and feelings.

Yeah, evenwolf could learn a thing or two from you.

[evenwolf]

Man, there's plenty of time to develop a space shuttle to evacuate the Earth, but would we even have anything to evacuate? I'd rather live in the moment myself rather than really start designing jedi-lazer-swords with which to defend myself when the time comes and I wake from my timetravel tube and am the only person in the world aside from shitloads of robots.

? ? ? ? ?

You state that you and Matti see humans' actions as the single biggest threat to our species....   I couldn't agree more.    I have the strong opinion that negligence will be our downfall.     Now, this paragraph implies something about humans getting ahead of themselves with technology.   I don't understand quite what you mean.   Are you saying humans shouldn't seek?   That humans should just wait?

I read these words to say:  "Everything falls into place over time".... like we could diagram on a chart the years

2030- lightsabers invented, 2090 - time machine invented, 3040 - human killing robots arrive

What did this paragraph mean exactly?  Because it seems to me that it's removing the responsibility out of humans' hands to do anything at all.  It appears to be a message about fate.

[MrColossal]

Here is a site that lists some of the things that space exploration has done for the people stuck on earth:

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

[evenwolf]

fireman airtanks, solar power, and breast cancer detection are enough proof for me.     I'm sure someone will make a big fuss over golfball aerodynamics.