Adventure Game Studio

Well. I try to keep an open mind and not disregard antyhing without much thought.

I also try to use logic and reason everything I see.

I've never seen anything even close to paranormal. And by paranormal I mean anything that I can't explain, a ghost, a UFO, ET, zombies, or anything from the land of fantasy.

Yet I've heard stories from people who know somebody who saw something.

Well! I can't buy this anymore. I want first hand experience.

I will always leave an open door, for the chance of anything weird happening but still I don't believe in anything (using logic, cause otherwise I do believe in God).

So has anybody have any paranormal/weird experience. Rharpe, do you have any proof of God? (Not that you, or I or anybody need one, but...). Esper, what about you? Anybody? Any real proof?

My girlfriends house is haunted. There are two or three kids that like to run around and laugh. I've witnessed it firsthand. Well, I've heard them before, but never seen them. However my girlfriend sees them from time to time, as does her mother. I can recall one event in particular. One time it was just my girlfriend and I in her house, doors locked (and this I am positive of). Well, we were in her basement and you could hear them running around upstairs. My girlfriend shouted, "I'm gonna kill you!" They giggled and left us alone.

My uncle also had a ghost living with him. He was the only one who lived in his house and the ghost, which everyone called Casper, would steal my uncles keys and hide them. Typically just move them from room to room, and occationally put them in drawers.

I don't have any proof other then witnessing, but it was enough for me.

Also, I watched a show on the History Channel awhile back about what they refered to as "The Russian Roswell". Something about the Russians admitting they have alien technology or something. Anyone else catch this or have heard of it? I don't recall the exact city or base where it took place.

edit: spelling

Quote from: Evil on Wed 23/11/2005 00:24:18
My uncle also had a ghost living with him. He was the only one who lived in his house and the ghost, which everyone called Casper, would steal my uncles keys and hide time. Typically just move them from room to room, and occationally put them in drawers.

I think this particular ghost haunts me too, from time to time

paranormal experience...I'm afraid but there is no such think like paranormal experience, why?, because if something is happenig its normal and natural, only observer didn’t understand it. Ã, 

Is UFO exist?

Is zombies exist?

Are there any monster in the lake?

Sure there are

Everything on the sky what we don’t recognize is UFO

Zombies, we all are zombies,

Monsters in the lake, ameba or some other parasite are quite deadly

So you see, look around and you will see Ã, many strange thinks,

and remember one think:

Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã, reality is stranger than fiction

Ã,  Ã, 

Have to say, I don't believe in anything that can't be explained logically with science. But I do like hearing people's ghost stories :) . . . during the day.

Science is proven wrong daily.

Normally by science!

Pff.

Science isn't proven wrong, people's various theories are. Science is what exists.

epistemology for dummies!

http://www.randi.org/ explains all!

I work with a guy who says he has been attacked by demons, and he is really against quidji boards (spelling?) I believe him, but really don't want to discuss more than that with him.

I am also against those boards, who knows what kind of hellgate i might be opening.

"Few people who have investigated Ouija boards from a skeptical viewpoint accept that a piece of cardboard sold as a game can conjure spirits, evil or benevolent. The accepted theory among psychologists and skeptics is that the participants are subconsciously making small, involuntary, physical movements using a well-known, and well-understood, phenomenon called the Ideomotor effect. Experiments consistently suggest that, at best, the messages are received involuntarily from the participants themselves, and, at worst, by a manipulative player, possibly with the connivance of confederates within the group present."

"when blindfolded, Ouija board operators are unable to produce intelligible messages."

Why no demons at all it seems!

I once had and experience of which I don't know if it is real or just my imagination.
I was about 10 years old when I was woken up by a loud sharp noise. I realised it to be my dog, who has barking madly. I went outside to calm her down and I found her standing, half stiffened, barking at a semi-transparent figure. I saw it for a brief moment before it turned (?) and started floating (?) through the fence. I saw that my dog was fine now, and so I returned to my bed and went into a deep slumber.
A teacher when I was back in primary school once told me of a ghost he had apparently encountered.
He used to live in England, and one night when he was riding home on his motorcycle he saw a pale girl on the side of the rode waving at him. It was raining and no-one else was around so he went over to see what she wanted. She wanted to get a lift home, and seeing as her house was on the way home, he let her onto the back of his motorbike and set off on his journey. He arrived at her house and stopped. He then realised that she wasen't on his bike anymore, so he went back to try and find her. He failed to find her and so he went to the address told to him by the girl. He knocked on the door and an old lady opened it. He told her of the unfortunate accident and her face grew paler and paler each word. She then told him how her daughter had died in a by falling off the back of her boyfriend's motorbike two (2) years ago.

Even though there is not any evidence that these actually happened, for some reason they seem to be etched into my skull as if they were taught to me by an old wise mentor.

What kind of proof do we need to know that God exists?

- Look at nature and how perfectly it's been designed, (down to the very cells, atoms, etc.)
- The archeologists of now-a-days are finding more and more evidence that the Bible is more accurate then previously thought by non-believers.
- The uncorruptible bodies of some saints.
- Miraculous events like Fatima in Portugal in 1917, (witnessed by thousands of people.)
- Stigmatas of St. Padre Pio.
- Demons (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04713a.htm) are proof that supernatural beings and God exists.

QuoteLook at nature and how perfectly it's been designed, (down to the very cells, atoms, etc.)

argument from awesome game design.

QuoteThe archeologists of now-a-days are finding more and more evidence that the Bible is more accurate then previously thought by non-believers.

argument from Indiana Jones.

QuoteThe uncorruptible bodies of some saints.

argument from good nutrition.

QuoteMiraculous events like Fatima in Portugal in 1917, (witnessed by thousands of people.)

Argument from obscurity.

QuoteStigmatas of St. Padre Pio.

Argument from Bad hollywood filmmaking.

Quote- Demons (http://www.lol.com) are proof that supernatural beings and God exists.

Argument from Hyperlink.

One time I awoke from a sleep and found myself unable to move ...

I was able to adjust the position of my eyes just enough to notice a small red colored figure standing on my chest.  I could actually feel the pressure of his little feet on my sternum.  The small man said nothing, made no noise ... but I could tell he was just staring at me.  (I could just barely make him out in my periphery).  I couldn't look right at him.

I closed my eyes and summoned every ounce of strength and will power I could and made myself move.  I jolted my eyes open and swatted across my chest and I hit ... air.  Nothing there.  The red man had gone.

A few years later I awoke to the same phenomenon and couldn't move ...

I was laying on my back, with my head turned to face the door ... our small cat (which we affectionately called Garbage Kitty 'cause my brother found her in a dumpster.  She walked on three legs 'cause her front left paw was mangled somehow ...) Anyway ... she (Garbage Kitty) was slowly approaching my bed ... stalking ...

She pounced on the bed and started tearing the flesh off my face with her one good clawed hand.  Hissing and spitting and scratching away.  I tried to scream but couldn't ... the pain was VERY real.  Once again I forced my eyes closed and plunged my mental bucket deep into the well of my will power and threw my eyes open and jumped out of bed ... once again ... nothing there and no scratches on my face.

I was convinced I had experienced some strange paranormal events here ... until, a few years later, I learned of a scientifically proven condition called "sleep induced paralysis" (or some such) where you are, physically, in a waken dream state ... your body is still asleep, but your mind is aware of being awake yet not fully outta the dream.

So ...

A few months later it happened again!

This time I awoke, unable to move, facing my window ... which was odd because it was open and I wouldn't have my window open in the middle of December winter in Michigan!  (for those who don't know ... that'd be like sleeping in a freezer)

A huge dragonfly flew in through the window and starting hovering over my face ... it had gigantic fangs and was buzzing and bobbing over me.  Its drool was dripping all over my face ... I sensed great peril without knowing why ... I knew I was in grave danger.  But at the same time I knew it was a dream because 1) the window was open 2) I couldn't move and 3) I had the scientific knowledge of "sleep induced paralysis"

So I dug down deep again and forced my body into motion and threw myself out of bed toward the window and swung around to confirm that the dragonfly was gone ... which of course it was.

Then I realized the cold December air was blowing across my body through the open window ...

Something like that happened to me just this morning!

I don't know if it actually happened or if I was just dreaming, but I could swear that something was putting pressure on the top left corner of my pillow.  I thought to myself "someone is there! I'll look really fast and see who!" but I couldn't move my head.  I didn't feel scared or threatened, though, and went back to sleep or to another dream, so I think it may have just been a realistic dream.

I've had weird things happen to me but nothing I can't explain with coincidence, something unknown (you know, something I don't personally know myself), science, imagination, the brain, inventing memories or ... well, any one of a thousand of other, non-paranormal explanations.

Th intelligent design argument just doesn't sit right with me. I mean, it would take me several years of the most incredibly trying psychologically-straining deep thinking to even come up with a way to start thinking about exactly what's behind the whole universe. I, and nor will any human being I suspect, will never, ever know why the universe exists or even if that's a valid question. I don't care, either. Humans are gonna die out as a species before we get anywhere near to even seriously thinking about considering that question.

However, I don't myself accept intelligent design as a logical argument for the existance of a "god". Some people look at the world and see a bunch of stuff that fits together so well, it must have been thought up. I think a lot of these things are just doing what comes naturally given the laws governing their make up. Some of the laws are just the natural evolution of other laws. I think it comes down to a few laws in the end. Why do they exist? I don't know, but I sure don't see that as a reason to think some guy thought them up. In that case, why do SO many things in the world make such little sense? Religious people would say that it's a mystery... the same as I would call the good things a mystery... nobody knows. Simple as that, but I personally believe it's FAR more likely to be some reason other than a great mind somewhere coming up with them.

Of course, if a god does exist, the question naturally presents itself; who invented god? And so on, and so on. So it's not much of an explanation at all, really. In the end, we don't know shit about exactly why anything is.

Stepping down from that ridiculous question, we DO know that within the laws of nature that govern our universe, there are some things which are just fact. Water heated to 100 degrees will boil, water below zero will freeze. Light travels faster than sound. Earth has gravity and gravity is the reason things fall when you drop them.

Things like that.

Now, we call it science for ease of use but science isn't just plants and physics and guys wearing lab coats. Science is the way things work and everything that is true.

If we did indeed discover that ghosts exist, they too, would be a part of that ever-encompassing word, "science". You could ask exactly what the science behind ghosts is, which is simply a question about everything that makes them up and the various properties of ghosts. Science = the deal with things. Whatever the deal with something is, it's science.

Heck, what's the deal with this stupid TV show? Well, the format of this TV show is following a formulae that has been proven economically to be very popular. It's popular because of various social traits, perhaps the majority of which concern our love of humour. Why do we love humour? Partly because of our history as humans and anscestory, and partly because of the way laughing makes us feel good, which is in turn the result of the biology and chemistry of our bodies.

Etc, etc... that was a really stupid example but everything boils down to various reasons like that.

We don't know them all yet, that's all.

What was my point again? Oh well, I'm gonna go have some chocolate.

You have to keep in mind that a lot of our perception is "in our head." Just like when you look through a glass window, you see both beyond the window and also a reflection back at you. Just like this, we perceive outside of us, but at the same time we get see a "reflection" back into our minds. Something like that.

Guys. Seriously. Put down the bong.

I myself have a lot of dejavus. I mean a lot...

My father is a doctor and he actually explained to me, from a scientific point of view, that it has to do with electricity in the mind, kind of like the epelepsy (sp) works.

Well, no other "paranormal" experience, really.

Rharpe, Have you had any experience yourself? Everything else you say can really easily be disregarded as proof (though, a bit more serious than Helm did, but then again it gave me a good laugh, and I tend to agree with him). More explanation and analysis, if you want on an other post, not now... :)

Spielberg:

"I tend to believe less in UFOs now, than before, in the seventies... Now, everything is recorded, no matter which incident, how hidden or weird, there are allways 3 or 4 videor records. But with this billions of cameras in the world, we haven't got still a good UFO footage"

I agree... Lots of "my girlfriend has a friend who...", "my grandmother has a sister who..." but I haven't been witness of one of those, of talked with a person who I trust which has been a direct witness of some paranormal events. If you go to any skeptyc (sp?) page you'll see how this cases are just crap, and that facts which have been "oficially" recognised by people as real are crap (I.E, The holly blanket of Turin...)

Example (a)myth (b)reality:

a)The holy Blanket has been prooven as radioactive by the Nasa experts
b)Only 2 of a group of 50 experts were FORMER experts of the Nasa. And they left the project claiming it was biased, being all the rest of experts believers and disposed to force conclussions agreeing with the paranormal activity.

a)The holy blanket has particles that were only in thr 1st century in palestine.
b)Those "particles" were told to be found by a french religios zealot. When he was demmanded to show the particles, he told he has lost the samples. Hehehe...

a)The holy blanket is forensically accurate. The dna reveals the blood is human blood.
b) No... A mass of hair with blood would never "paint" in the blanket the image we've seen. It would better do a black (yeah, dry blood is black) blob. In addition, the body is anatomically impossible. Analisys of the "blood" suggest it is a middle age paint.

And we could go on and on... It is curious, but the Vatican never claimed that the Holy blanket is real, but just "important as an item"... Some times the people in the eye of the hurricane is the most sensible.

Darth and Grund; the sense of not being able to move as you wake up is very common. When you sleep and dream, a muscular relaxation kicks in to prevent you from moving accordingly to your dreams. Sometimes you accidently reach semi-conciousness before the muscles are activated. Still in a dream-like state, your brain can build up imaginative elements that either reflect the panic of not being able to move (you dream of scary stuff happening to you while being paralysed) or construct causes and reasons for it (you dream of sinking in a pool of mud, or being tied up, etc).

It can also happen when you're about to fall asleep, which is just the reverse effect; you start dreaming before the muscles are relaxed, which can cause parts of your body to give a start or jump uncontrolled. Typically, you dream of falling from a fence or losing your balance.

Oh boy, a chance to humiliate myself again: here's the explanation: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=23307.0

Quote from: Andail on Wed 23/11/2005 10:55:17
It can also happen when you're about to fall asleep, which is just the reverse effect; you start dreaming before the muscles are relaxed, which can cause parts of your body to give a start or jump uncontrolled. Typically, you dream of falling from a fence or losing your balance.

It happened to me a few days ago, I was just about to go to sleep but I was still half awake.
I dreamt that I fell from something, next thing I know my arms and feet jump up and I'm fully awake. It was kind of a strange experience.

(Un)fortunatly I never had a paranormal encounter or something, or atleast I can't remember one.
I read/view/listen to stuff on the internet about these kind of things, and most of them I think their crap. I mean come on a door closing by itself, or a chair moving.
Another thing I find hard to believe are EVPs (electric voice phenomena), you listen and hear someone say, "I'm not dead." or something like that. I mean I can make that by a flick of the wrist. Though some sound more convincing, a really hard to hear voice beneath a lot of noise while you hear someone else speak (a real person) but still that's not hard to make.
A few days ago I searched the net for some more 'convinsing' evidence.
Still the same with the EVP, but I did found some weird footage:
http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/video/ESPhq.wmv
still it could be fake but it looks kinda odd to me...

Quote from: Nikolas
Rharpe, Have you had any experience yourself? Everything else you say can really easily be disregarded as proof (though, a bit more serious than Helm did, but then again it gave me a good laugh, and I tend to agree with him). More explanation and analysis, if you want on an other post, not now... :)

I've never seen a ghost before, but I believe they do exist. I figure they are the souls of he deceased that are in Heaven, Limbo, Purgatory, or Hell. I sometimes have dreams that make me change my sinful ways... but I can't recall ever being awake and conscious while experiencing this contact... or whatever you may call it. (Btw, they don't occur very often.)

I live in a highly Catholic populated area and have heard/witnessed things that others have experienced as well... we use to have "Passion Plays" before Easter every year and this strange phenomina would always take place: Every time we would hang "Judas" on a tree limb...the next year that tree would be dead or the branch would be broken. All the trees we have used are now unaccessable. Strange indeed. My thoughts are: the Devil doesn't want us to perform, so he makes it harder to reenact a damned souls actions when he was alive. Just a thought.

My wife has had a strange experience as well. When she was younger there were some strange fingernail sounds scratching the walls, loud banging on the doors and the dog outside running in circles. She looked outside to find no footsteps in the snow. Not sure what to do, she said some prayers to St. Michael the archangel and the strange sounds ceased.

I also have friends that have had similar things happen to them...but on a lesser scale. Usually they just say some prayers for the pour souls in Purgatory and the sounds go away.

Again, not alot of experiences, but enough to make me believe spirits exist.

Well, I'm an "old fart" compared to most of you young'uns around here, and during my lifetime I've experienced several "strange" occurances personally, as well as knowing several people I trust who have also relayed to me what you might call "paranormal" experiences. Ã,  Some could argue some of these happenings are just "coincidence", or can be explained logically / scientifically, etc... But when you experience a strange incident first-hand, then it sort of makes you wonder a bit about these things, and perhaps opens your mind up to new perspectives.

Ã,  I'll share with you one such incident that I experienced myself a few years back, and I was fully awake at the time. Ã,  I was over visiting a friend one night, and we finished watching some movie on TV, anyways, it was late (past midnight), so, it was time to go home. The walk home would take around 30 minutes, so off I go. Ã, As it was late, the streets were abondoned of traffic or people. Ã, I was walking along a main road on the sidewalk, and as I was approaching towards an intersection, a street-light (an overhead light on a pole on the sidewalk I'm on) I walked by - the light goes out. Ã, Okay, so I didn't think too much about it, just figured the bulb burned out, or was a weak light or whatever. Anyways, the next street-light Ã, I walk by and the same thing... the light goes out as soon as I pass by the pole. Okay, now that's a little odd now. Anyways, I keep walking, and then the next street-light, same thing, the light goes out! Ã, Okay, now I'm thinking there's something strange going on... it's just too coincidental. So, now behind me, there's 3 of the street-lights behind me that I walked by, the lights are out. Ã, So, now, I'm approaching the next light... This time I pause for a moment before walking by the pole... then, I take a big step next to the pole and... you guessed it... that light goes out too as soon as I walk next to the pole! Ã, Okay, now this is just too odd! Anyways, next up is the crosswalk at the intersection, in which I have a choice to keep going along this same road, or to turn down a different road. Anyways, the cross-walk light, it's starting to flash to turn red, but, as soon as I step near the curb of the cross-walk, the crossing light turns a solid green. Ã, For the crossing light to go from a flashing red (which normally would turn to a solid red, then stay red for a minute or soÃ,  before turning to green again), to turn instantly into a solid green as soon as I got to the curb... well, I just felt a wierd feeling come over me, and it was like something "urging" me to turn off this main road. Ã, So, following my "feeling" on this, I turn down onto the different road after crossing.
Ã,  Ã, After about 20 seconds or so of walking down the different road, I hear a load "Screeching" noise and "Boom Boom Boom" (loud car-stereo noise) coming from the main road that I had turned off... Looking back, I see this speeding car swerving with screeching tires, all over the road, and also it looked like that it went on the sidewalk too that I would have been walking on... I could see the car had several people in in, all hollering out the windows of the car as if they were on some drunken joy-ride.

Ã,  Ã, Anyways, it got me to thinking... If not for those Street-lights turning off light they did as I walked by them, and the crossing-light turning green when it should have been turning a solid red, I would have likely decided to stay on that main road I was on, and, if I had, I have a strong feeling that the car that was swerving all over the road and side walk, possibly with a drunk driver, that I most likely would have been hit by that car, perhaps being seriously hurt or killed. Ã,  So, for me, it was one of those strange occurances in my life that I felt I had "someone or something looking out for me". Ã, :)

Ã,  Well, it's a true story that happened to me personally, and I have experiences of other strange incidents in my life as well... but this is one that I feel that probably saved my life.

Best regards.

Quote from: Kinoko on Wed 23/11/2005 07:50:35
However, I don't myself accept intelligent design as a logical argument for the existance of a "god". Some people look at the world and see a bunch of stuff that fits together so well, it must have been thought up. I think a lot of these things are just doing what comes naturally given the laws governing their make up. Some of the laws are just the natural evolution of other laws. I think it comes down to a few laws in the end. Why do they exist? I don't know, but I sure don't see that as a reason to think some guy thought them up.

So you think that a few eternal laws lend to themselves, and that sounds more logical than an omniscient creator? o_O

I don't have time to really rebuff that, so rather, I will say this..
How could the first cell have evolved?  Anybody who's taken biology would know how complicated a cell is, and how essential its many parts are.  If it wasn't specifically created, how could it have lived without an energy source, storage space and general celly cell stuff?  I don't care how many billions of years you give that cell - it would die fast.  It wouldn't even live to begin with!

Also, how could there be laws for things that aren't in existance yet?  A natural law shows what usually happens in the world around us.. what is the norm.  It can't say what usually happens without something.. to er.. usually happen!

Quote from: Kinoko on Wed 23/11/2005 07:50:35
Of course, if a god does exist, the question naturally presents itself; who invented god? And so on, and so on. So it's not much of an explanation at all, really. In the end, we don't know shit about exactly why anything is.

If God doesn't have a beginning, how could he possibly need an inventor?  :=

"I don't care how many billions of years you give that cell - it would die fast.  It wouldn't even live to begin with!"

But it didn't and here we are! Simple as that! Hooray!

Ok... here goes.

I believe my cat died 5 years ago. But he still haunts my home. On several occasions I have been able to touch him and see him. Everyone else can see him too. He's still warm, furry, and his heart is beating. He's not even see-through. The freaky part is that he eats and drinks too. I mean, dead cats aren't supposed to eat OR have a beating heart. He can not walk through objects either, but meows when he wants to go outside. This is scary as hell for me.

Quote from: MrColossal on Wed 23/11/2005 19:44:57
But it didn't and here we are! Simple as that! Hooray!

Yes!

But did it have any help from Someone?

That's the question here...

On the one hand we're talking about something amazingly coincidental, if this is chance. But then again were talking about life, Earth, and nature itself, so why not? I for one am sure that there is life "somewhere out there", but distance is not helping really, as well as our technology to date. Maybe in a couple of hundred years, maybe sooner, who knows.

And as someone (Einstein?), said if there is not life in the universe but us, this is a great waste of space. A comment that simply makes sense.

As far as I'm aware (could be mistaken), the biggest brains of this planet (Einstein, Hawkins, etc.) all believe in G(g)od (<- Look at this! I'm freaking out now!)

Haddas: This sounds that your cats son/daugther (illegal I might ad), comes to visit you once in a while...  ;)

Quote from: Farlander on Wed 23/11/2005 10:36:18
you'll see how this cases are just crap

I knew you were going to say that. I have esp!

QuoteIf God doesn't have a beginning, how could he possibly need an inventor?Ã,  :=

If you accept that there is something that began from nothing... Why set the line in God, and not some minutes after, with the big bang?

As you can see, this discussion is silly, no one was there to take a look, so, why discussing if everything started in t -10 with god, or in t0 with the Big Bang?

EDIT:

Quote from: SSH on Wed 23/11/2005 19:53:05

Quote from: Farlander on Wed 23/11/2005 10:36:18
you'll see how this cases are just crap

I knew you were going to say that. I have esp!

esp? Sorry?

speaking of Einstein, he said: "One thing is certain. God wasn't playing dice" or something like that.

I believe that if evolution is indeed true, it can't just happen by its own. Things are just too complicated to just happen by simple chance. I believe that God interfered in the whole process.

But anyway, back to paranormal: Yes I experienced things like that. The most memorable ones are the kind of what Darth had. The latest one was my favourite, it happened exactly a week ago.

I was lying on bed thinking about stuff and suddently things got darker and I felt something was on my right. I tried to turn my head to face right, but it was as though something was holding it. Then I faced the ceiling and some words were written on it, it was as though they were projected by some kind of invisible projector. The words disappeared, but then reappeared again. I couldn't read them though because they were changing all the time. I was scared as hell, and then I got control of me. It wasn't really like I woke up, but it was like I got control back.

I came to the conclusion that it was either a weird dream, or a demon trying to scare teh hell out of me :P. Because if it really was some kind of divine message to me, I'd be able to read it and make sense out of it.

Quote from: Farlander on Wed 23/11/2005 19:55:50
esp? Sorry?

ESP is most commonly called the "sixth sense." It is sensory information that an individual receives which comes beyond the ordinary five senses sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. It can provide the individual with information of the present, past, and future; as it seems to originate in a second, or alternate reality.

"As far as I'm aware (could be mistaken), the biggest brains of this planet (Einstein, Hawkins, etc.) all believe in G(g)od (<- Look at this! I'm freaking out now!)"

Not a big selling point really... Einstein and Hawkins are both white and that doesn't make me drawn any conclusions either.

I think what freaks me out more than capitalizing the g is when one can't have a debate about the origins of life without wondering if the people you're talking to believe in dinosaurs.. It's a little worrying. Does anyone here believe in the Dodo? If so then how about in 3000 years? 4000? 1 million? Can you imagine that at some point in your life you'll have to actually say the words "Do you believe in dinosaurs?" out loud?

As I've said before, we know less than 1% [and that's being generous] of the universe. Is there a god? Who knows, are there 400 gods? Who knows, what if a tribe of sun worshippers is correct and when someone kills them off or converts them all to Christianity and the sun doesn't raise the next day... What then? I bet it gets blamed on the gays and feminism somehow...

The Egyptians and the Romans and the Greeks and the whatevers believed in their gods just as hard as people now-a-days believe in theirs... In my opinion just because a religion is written down doesn't give it legitimacy and just because a religion is still around doesn't either. There are things that are older than christianity and judaism combined and just because they aren't around anymore doesn't make them less credible than current religions. I'm not against personal beliefs just please have a great time at life and don't hurt anyone unless they ask, BDSM and Jesus can coexist!

Quote from: MrColossal on Wed 23/11/2005 20:13:41
"As far as I'm aware (could be mistaken), the biggest brains of this planet (Einstein, Hawkins, etc.) all believe in G(g)od (<- Look at this! I'm freaking out now!)"

Not a big selling point really... Einstein and Hawkins are both white and that doesn't make me drawn any conclusions either.

Huh, I'm not selling anything, you just decided to buy...

And anyway, I don't give a shit if they're white or not. These are the two names that came to mind (and actualyl I believe that they are alos Jewis (sp) and that there is a lobby helping this whole thing.)

Who said anything about religion? I'm the first to keep an open mind to everything and actually this is why this thread exists (I started it remember, and I said that I want to keep an open mind).

As it happens I like to believe that there is something higher than us, somewhere. I don't give a shit (twice), about the name, whtether it is Zeus, God, god, Isis, or whatever else. I just feel more relaxed to think that there is something out there.

Quote...is when one can't have a debate about the origins of life without wondering if the people you're talking to believe in dinosaurs... It's a little worrying. Does anyone here believe in the Dodo? ... Can you imagine that at some point in your life you'll have to actually say the words "Do you believe in dinosaurs?" out loud?

I honestly don't follow you here. Sorry... There are bones from dinosaurs and sceintific proof that can't be disregarded (maybe the wrong word here but can't come up with something better). What do you mean?

Edit: The G(g)od is so that I won't piss Rharpe off. I don't like doing that. And although it seems a little "political correct" I try to respect people... That's why...

Oooh! Interesting topic! It's not particularly paranormal but I do have a story. I was going to post about this the other week but considered it too crazy and fell in fear of being criticised! But it's definitely worthy of a mention!

A few weeks back, I went out for a ciggie and looking up about 8pm, I saw an object moving across the at extremely high speed. It was a dimly lit rectangle, travelling South to North and not at any speed I'd encountered before. I only got a couple of seconds glimpse of it but I immediately thought it was a UFO. Such things intrigue me, and for someone who looks up to the sky every night, I have quite a good perception of familiar objects in the sky (and now unfamiliar ones). So I wasn't smoking pot or anything that night!!! :P

So I went to a friends house that night and told a bunch of people, one guy told me of a bizarre close encounter he had had during the summer and the conversation ended. The next week, there was a report, and pictures, of a strange object seen by a builder at about 6am hovering over a local RAF base (RAF Benson, often the coldest place in the UK :P). The pictures were blurry, but of the two - one was a kind of "brick" shape. The article said how the man that took the pictures described it as brick shape. ANyway, I thought this was a funny co-incidence because I had seen one not long before the article too. They didn't give a date, though!

SO the NEXT week when the next issue of the Herald came out, there was ANOTHER article about another, closer, sighting of the mysterious craft. A woman and her daughter had seen it at 5.40am, just hovering, silently - and could see three large windows on it. And this time they gave the date! And as if by magic, yes, you guessed it - it was on the same day as the thing I'd seen.

So a woman and her daughter saw it at 5.40am
Some builder man saw something at 6am
And then I saw it that night at 8pm

So three sightings gave me good enough reason to beleive something weird was going on! In the article an MOD spokesman said; "It was probably lights reflecting off the cloud" - plus some other bullshit, which gives me a genuine impression that they're really fucking naive or are blatently in on it. If you're one of the major helicopter bases in the country, you're not just going to ignore a hovering thing above your RAF base, nor would it go un-detected. Anyways, whatever the story - if they really do think it was a cloud, then all I can do is laugh at the fact they were being staked out & stalked by alien life!! :P

But to be honest, I don't think it's anything alien. I'm pretty sure its some cover-up jet type thing they don't want us to know about. Anything flying from South to North over my house is heading towards RAF Brize Norton, so I wouldn't be surprised. The only other thing is, remember the friend I said had a close encounter - he has quite an accurate description of what he saw, hovering over him very slowly, with a light kind of high pitched hoover sound. And that makes me wonder if its some kind of new fangled jet.

Anyway, this mystery remains, frankly I don't know what to make of it. But whatever it was, actually exists.

The only other ghostly encounters I've had are! Erm... Well, none really! I bet if I think about it I could think of some freaky or strange occurences, but right now I can't..
- I saw a wild Puma cat or something in Berkshire! That was freaky!

Quote(and actualyl I believe that they are alos Jewis (sp) and that there is a lobby helping this whole thing.)

Do you hate jews with a passion?

No, but I eat goat cheese with a lot of passion.

I just think that some things are pushed more than they should, in other words there could be other scientist much greater than these two, but for some reason (Jews) they are the only names to come out (at least for me...)

WIld Puma-man in Berkshire, eh?

I believe that there is a metaphysical world : one that science cannot measure or analyse. The human "soul" is the typical example of this. What am I, essentially? And what are things like love? And anyone who has done any kind of basic philosophy, such as read "Sophie's World" will understand that an creator being could be invisible to us as and when it chooses.

Tiki does have a valid point. I read a book from a former BBC science correspondent and he is not religious at all but he said that although evolution from primitive multiple-cellular organisms to humankind is prety solid theory, everything from amino acids to multi-celled organisms was pretty flaky based on huge amounts of assumption and supposition.

oh, and can you people use [ quote ] properly, please: your posts can be very confusing!

Helm, do you hate "The Passion" with a jew?

btw, Hawking is neither Jewish nor religious

Quote from: m0ds on Wed 23/11/2005 20:32:09
- I saw a wild Puma cat or something in Berkshire! That was freaky!

Interesting enough, I've read about something similar. Here's a picture: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0 (extremely bad picture!) I couldn't find the article I read once though. I guess Google has more info.

Paranormal is intriguing. I love tv-shows and movies that are about paranormal. I haven't experienced anything really paranormal myself, but I'd love to. Though I guess I'd be freaked out, I'm afraid of being alone in the dark... you never know what's out there.

if you think I'm picking a fight with you then you are quite wrong.

read what I wrote again as me just having a conversation. "I don't buy it" an expression, I wasn't say "Hey, go peddle your wares some place else! This here is a You Selling Things Free Zone!"

"And anyway, I don't give a shit if they're white"

You mentioned their relgion as if because they were very smart people, them believing in god might mean something. If it doesn't matter what colour they are why does it matter what they believed spiritually?

"I don't give a shit (twice)"

I never said you can't have these thoughts. Why do you think I did? In fact I wrote exactly that all I want is for people to have fun and don't hurt anyone. So why the hostility?

Dinosaurs: There are people who believe that Dinosaur bones were put their either by God to test us or the devil to tempt us... There are people that say that the universe isn't old enough for dinosaurs to have lived and that since they aren't in the bible they couldn't have existed therefore the dinobones are fake.

"Who said anything about religion? I'm the first to keep an open mind to everything and actually this is why this thread exists (I started it remember, and I said that I want to keep an open mind)."

"Yes! But did it have any help from Someone? That's the question here..."

You did.

Gosh, teach me for trying to have a conversation...

I used to see crap when I was a kid, but that dosen't really count. Probably just things influenced by my crazy imagination and lack of sleep.

One incident I can remember happened a few years back. I lived off the road a bit and had no real neighbors for miles, and was by myself one day. I had a little wood-room to stack wood for my fire, and I started hearing a noise from in there. I opened up the door to the room (which was just a small two doored room) and the door leading to the outside was being rattled pretty harshly, like someone was trying to get in. The door-knob was being turned even.

I worked at a jail back then, and in a small town people know where you live. First thing I did was grab my glock and handcuffs and run outside (which took me like 10 seconds) not knowing what the hell was gonna happen.

Nobody was there.

Freaked me out. There was nowhere a person could have hid in the area I lived in, it was all flat farmland, and there was no vehicle around at all (which they would need to get there unless they decided to walk a few dirt road miles.)

I told myself it was probably mutant racoons.

You started it!!!! Boo hoo hoo!

I reread it and I'm not trying to pick a fight to. I was a bit defensive though...

Well, I didn't mention their religion but simply the fact that the most scientific minds seem to believe in God and so, science and religion can coexist. Something like that. These are people who spent their lives studying science and so on, and thus if they say that they have not find a single proof of the non-existance of god, I kind of take their word (without this meaning that I believe them, or expect someone else to do my thinking...). It's just that their word counts a little more to me than someone elses words...

The bying thing, was trying to be a joke (unsuccesfully aparently)...

I felt that there was an attack to Christianity and I couldn't find any apparent reason for you doing so. That's why I wrote that "I don't give a shit what the name is...".

End of topic for me.

Squinky, I don't care how dead you are, if you see an armed and dangerous Squinky coming at you with handcuffs... You're disappearing!

Aww, Petteri! When I view that webpage it says "No image to display" !! :(

Eek! Hmm. You could go to http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/ ---> Image Gallery ---> Search ---> Type in 'black cat' or something and you should find the picture. But as I said, it's a very bad picture. :P

Quote from: Petteri on Wed 23/11/2005 21:12:44
But as I said, it's a very bad picture.

And thus we have the majority of proof of paranormal happenings summed up in 1 sentence! Hehe

Quote from: Haddas on Wed 23/11/2005 19:49:05
Ok... here goes.

I believe my cat died 5 years ago. But he still haunts my home. On several occasions I have been able to touch him and see him. Everyone else can see him too. He's still warm, furry, and his heart is beating. He's not even see-through. The freaky part is that he eats and drinks too. I mean, dead cats aren't supposed to eat OR have a beating heart. He can not walk through objects either, but meows when he wants to go outside. This is scary as hell for me.

Sounds like the cat isn't dead afterall. :) Or he just switched to one of his other eight lives :)

I have a story, but its not paranormal, just freaky. I am in uni, and our uni has two parts, the medical one and then all the rest as the other one. I'm in this one. Some of my friends are in the medical part. They have dead bodies over there (what you call it? cadavers?).Ã,  Now they are very freaked out and serious when they tell me this, as their lecturers told them (they swear its true). I don't know, but i believe them.

There was a girl a few years back, a first year. Two guys took an arm from one the bodies and put it in the girls bed under the covers, apparently with the hand sticking out. The first sight of the girl (by her friends) after she went to her room that night was where she was sitting on her cupboard chewing on the arm. She had a blank expression.

The two guys were apparently expelled and the girl was treated as she went quite mad.

:)

Thanks Petteri! Hehe, yep, well thats similar to what I saw, I'd imagine it must have been a leopard. Whats scary is I saw it not TOO far from home! (About 6 miles or so), but then this was when I was about 8 and I haven't been eaten by anything since, so I'm not TOO scared :P But yes, the crappy picture does look a bit like what I saw!!

And guys chopping off arms for girls to later eat? Now thats just plain WEIRD!! :P

 :P

Eric: I couldn't agree more with you on this one.

All these things happeing, and no decent proof? Come on... A mobile phone can provide better pictures/video etc... But still nothing...

This doen make me skeptical...

2 seconds wasn't quite long enough for me to gather some evidence, sorry... :P

Now we know why the games aren't called Mark Lovegrove: Paranormal Investigator.

:P

Yes, so my reactions are rather weak! But, now I know who was driving that craft I saw!

Time travelling scum!

Quote from: buloght on Wed 23/11/2005 21:17:49There was a girl a few years back, a first year. Two guys took an arm from one the bodies and put it in the girls bed under the covers, apparently with the hand sticking out. The first sight of the girl (by her friends) after she went to her room that night was where she was sitting on her cupboard chewing on the arm. She had a blank expression.

Classic urban legend:Ã,  http://www.ecampustours.com/campuslife/urbanlegendsoncollegecampuses.aspx

QuoteCadaver Arm
This legend is about a medical student who secretly takes an arm of a corpse.Ã,  One night, he decides to hide the arm in his girlfriend's room as a practical joke.Ã,  He and his roommate wait in another dorm room for the girl to start screaming.Ã,  After an hour passes and nothing happens, the two medical students decide to go into the girlfriend's room.Ã,  They find the girl sitting in the corner of the room with a glazed expression on her face eating the arm.Ã,  The practical joke had driven her mad.

This legend has also never been proven true.

Edit: More info on http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/cadaver.htm

looks like i've been had, lol. Or they have and believed it too. Thanks for clearing it up garagegothic :)

I just spent the last hour looking for some cool creepy ghost pictures. They all seem to be what they call "orbs"  (Which look like waterspots on the lense to me) and a bunch of fog and smoke....Pretty lame.

Edit---

Eric: I would type lol if I didn't despise it's use. But then again, I guess I did just kinda type lol anyway...

I personally try not to think about how or why things are how they are. Because it is the unavoidable FACT that I simply will not know the truth during my lifetime as a human being. I do believe however that in Darwin's theory of evolution through natural selection. If we TRULY are alone then we have a big path ahead of us as beings of the universe.

I found proof! And no its not a PhotoShop image with the blurring tool! Bloody skeptics!

(http://www.parkenet.org/jp/challenges/ghost.jpg)

ok, if you want to explain to us what it is we see... I'm pretty willing to believe it...  ;)

http://www.theespers.org/artmain.html

Here. Click "paranormal" and then select "Introduction to the Supernatural: Planar Theorem," (which is toward the bottom) or any of the other articles if you so choose, but "Planar Theorem" is the best explanation I can muster as to the existance of the supernatural.

I have had many experiences, but I do not feel free to discuss them here. I'm not sure if any of you listen to me now, but after I told you the extent of my experiences no one would probably ever take me seriously again. If you look around enough on www.theespers.org, you will find about 3% of my total experiences listed, and even that should be enough to make people think I need to go to an insane asylum. However, 50% of my experiences have been in the presence of many other people, and on several occasions at least 20-30 people have experienced activity with me.Ã,  The worst "funk" I ever had was in the presence of an entire college dormitory, and was enough to send 50 strapping lads screaming out of the building or to a corner to cry.

However, just like everyone else thinks of themselves, I could probably lay down the arguments that would make everyone believe in what I call "funk." I could probably also lay down the law on the subject of God, however, arguments on forums and in chats are often worthless, as no one listens regardless of the quality of the argument.

What I will say is this: If God is real, then He hates every religion on earth vehemently. If the paranormal is real, it is proof of God. If you believe in God, but you do not believe in the paranormal, you might as well shove your Bible up your ass, because that's where it will do the most good. If you base your religion on the Bible, like most mainstream Christian religions do, and you stray from even one word of it or let men or "priests" or "elders" or "pastors" tell you what it says without investigating it yourself, you might as well take a fat dump on it, because that is all it is worth. If you believe in religion but you can only successfully argue your religion by telling other people that their arguments are stupid or conflict with Biblical teachings, you are a friggin' nutter and need to be commited to an asylum.

That's my bit...

EDIT: Also, a few of you might want to go to the website listed above, click "Paranormal" and then select "Old Hag Syndrome." It seems quite a few of you are subject to it...

Well, I once had a particularly horrifying paranormal experience. I woke up as usual on a lovely morning. I went to the loo to answer, er, nature's long call. I sat down on the comode, I lit a fag and proceeded to open up a newspaper. Anyway, after about 15 minutes of, um, doing my job, I got up and was about to flush, when suddenly I noticed: There was NOTHING in the comode! GOD HAD FLUSHED FOR ME!! That experience has truly changed my life. I now devotedly worship God.

*turns sarcasm-neurone off*

I never believed in aliens, devils, gods and Santa Claus. And I've never seen a proof i'm wrong. It's all a bunch of lies and simple mistakes. The only thing I'd say was paranormal in my life was when I wake up in the middle in the night - the same time my brother had a car accident. I didn't have a clue about it but I couldn't sleep for hours. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

Oh and thinking bout wierd - I remember one night in my grandma's guest room in her old silent house. I got under the blanket and fell asleep... the morning I woke and under me the bed was like I never even used it. The blanket under me and the sheets perfectly folded aside...  The wierd part is same thing happened to my dad long time ago in the same room.  :o

Don't know... Maybe I was sleepwalking or something. Or maybe something fixes the bed and takes care of the room from time to time waiting for my great great grandfather to return from the war. Who knows. :-\

Quote from: Grundislav on Wed 23/11/2005 07:27:13
Something like that happened to me just this morning!

I don't know if it actually happened or if I was just dreaming, but I could swear that something was putting pressure on the top left corner of my pillow.Ã,  I thought to myself "someone is there! I'll look really fast and see who!" but I couldn't move my head.Ã,  I didn't feel scared or threatened, though, and went back to sleep or to another dream, so I think it may have just been a realistic dream.

Haha... That happened to me and Lorena in that exact place, your bed.

Of course, it was your cat.

The friction between between religion and scienc has always been one of my pet peevs.   Science concers itself exclussively with the physical world, the objective observation of how it works, and the reduction of those observations to a mathimatical or similarily concise description devoid of emotional, cutural, or other immaterial considerations.   Religion concerns itself (or ought to) with the spiritual well being of the individuals who practice it, by providing a philosophical and ethical foundation upon which practicioners can build their lives. 

I for one don't/can't see what one has to do wtih the other, except that some religious believers do not have faith in their own beliefs and so require proof.     

Given the long and colorful history in which time after time after time science, when challenged by religious beilefs, has prevailed, you would think that religious people and institutions would realize the futility of it and just quit.

Father George Coyne, a Catholic priest and Vatican astronmer has this to say about ID:

Quote
I would essentially like to share with you two convictions in this presentation: (1) that the Intelligent Design (ID) movement, while evoking a God of power and might, a designer God, actually belittles God, makes her/him too small and paltry; (2) that our scientific understanding of the universe, untainted by religious considerations, provides for those who believe in God a marvelous opportunity to reflect upon their beliefs. Please note carefully that I distinguish, and will continue to do so in this presentation, that science and religion are totally separate human pursuits. Science is completely neutral with respect to theistic or atheistic implications which may be drawn from scientific results.

I saw a couple of his lectures on TV and thought they were very interesting.   He has some really refreshing and inspirational views about this topic.  I did a google on his name and found some quotations (http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/02/george_coyne_sc.html) and videos (http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/R1024/VOFTalks.html).

Hi Rick. I respectfully would like to argue against your points. Here goes:

Quote
I for one don't/can't see what one has to do wtih the other, except that some religious believers do not have faith in their own beliefs and so require proof.   

While this is true, many times science is used to disprove a persons spiritual beliefs. So, it works both ways, eh?

Quote
Given the long and colorful history in which time after time after time science, when challenged by religious beilefs, has prevailed, you would think that religious people and institutions would realize the futility of it and just quit.

While I have nothing to truthfully rebuke this specific example, I'll point out some flaws in science.

Basically, when people tell me that religions or a specific religious event didn't happen or yadda yadda because of some scientific finding I always think of this:

Years ago, science told us that eating lots of carbs was good for us, now they say carbs are bad. They are currently letting people go from prisons because new dna science disproves the old science, that apparently was good enough to lock people up before.... 

Basically, sceince is a learning process, and while I love it and wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers, I feel that in ten years we wil have completely different things told to us by science.

So, can I base my decisions on my belief on scientific findings? Certainly, but in doing so I must remember that Science has its flaws too. It isn't the trump card in this debate.

I also feel that no human endevour, be it scientific research or religious research, is without influences. Many Scientific findings are tainted by what the person wants to achieve, even though aren't supposed to be.

I have experiences that cannot be properly explained all the time.  Some of them really scare me, and some don't.  In fact, some are very comforting, lulling me into a state of conscience where I don't feel real anymore...

My explanation?  Meta-Physics.  Our five senses are just the ones we experience most often, we have more, and those five can get stronger.  The best way I've found to distinguish the 'real' paranormal experiences from the 'fake' ones, is to think about what was going through my head right before the experience.  Like, if I hear a voice in my head, but just a few seconds before that, I was THINKING about ghosts or something, then I dismiss the voice as my imagination.  However, if I'm on the computer doing something, adn I'm very concentrated, and I hear a voice, I listen to it, because I know I've begun to pick up a meta-physical sound.  Usually whatever is said is too quiet to hear, or sounds like an ordinary conversation that I'm not a part of... almost like I'm an eavesdropper.
Sometimes I'll have a song playing in my head, and certain words will seperate themselves and paste in my mind.  If I haven't been thinking about this happening, then the message usually continues to pull out.  I once got:
"(In) 45 days, (your) life will change"
*Words in parenthases are words that became part of the message, but weren't in the song.
I've also gotten some incoherant messages, but those happen after I'm thinking about the occurances.
I once got a message out of my ears ringing.  I was lying down, (freshly, mind you, not tired yet) and my ears began to ring.  My arm was over my ear, so I moved it, and the ringing stopped.  That made me feel empty, so I put my arm back on top of my ear, and the ringing continued.  In my mind's eye, the sound became this cosmic dust looking white thing that ran through my head, and words would peel off of it, and paste themselves.  The final message:
"(undisclosed name) thinks of you always"
*The undisclosed name was a person a once knew, and seem to dream about a lot now that they're gone.  I'm not releasing their name, because it might make the dreams end, and I'd rather that not happen, because I enjoy the person's company in them.  (The person isn't dead, btw)

Anyhow, that concludes a breif glimpse into SOME of my experiences.  Meta-Physics is the best answer still I think.

-Regards, Akumayo

Hey Squinky,

I think our individual take on this stuff is not very different.  When you say the following two examples come to mind.   

Quote
While this is true, many times science is used to disprove a persons spiritual beliefs. So, it works both ways, eh?

The first example that came to mind, and likely what you were thinking also. would be like some scientist fellow saying "Well, there was this big bang thing and that's what created the universe, etc etc, so that proves that God doesn't exist yadayadade...".   In this instance I would agree that this is bullshit because spirtual beliefs such as the existance of God is supposed to be something that is neither proveable nor disproveable;  Belief in the existance of God requires faith ;).  As I said earlier the provence of science is the material universe, it's objective observation, and description in mathematicaly concise terms. 

The second example that comes to mind is the head/prominent Saudi cleric who believed that the world was flat.  He was finally disuaded from this notion when one of the Saudi princes told him that he went up in the space shuttle and saw that it was in fact spherical.  In this case the shape of the earth has very little to do with spirutality except that the ancient Greek view of things used to be around for quite a while and was apparently incorporated in to Islam to bolster it's claim to legitmacy.   The Catholic church did the same thing with Galeio and "the earth is the center of the universe" thing.   These are the cases to which I refer when I muse about people knowing when to quit.   

Quote
Years ago, science told us that eating lots of carbs was good for us, now they say carbs are bad. They are currently letting people go from prisons because new dna science disproves the old science, that apparently was good enough to lock people up before....

You put your finger on excatly how the friction between science and religion occur.   Religious instutions or prominent leaders incorporate accepted scientific facts into their belief system to bolster it's legitmacy.  For example it is extremely comforting for me to contemplate the similarities between Genisis and the Big Bank Theory.  Now suppose the pope or some other influential religious leader went around preaching about how these similarities are proof that the Bible is true.  Now suppose that this notion gains popularity and over the next 500 years or so becomes part of Christian dogma.    What do you suppose happens when a new scientific theory emerges that says the Big Bang wasn't the beginning after all? 

The problem is that religious dogma is absolute and not supposed to change or be challenged.  It's supposed to be God's word after all.  I suppose that's why it's called dogma ;).  However, as you point out, scienctific theories are constantly challenged and are subject to change all the time.  If you can prove an accepted theory wrong you will become rich and famous, so there are a lot of people out there taking shots all the time.   The one thing you can be certain about a Scientific Theory is that over time it will change, sometimes completly disproven but most often refined, improved, evolved, or shown to be incomplete.   

Father Coyne's lectur titled "When the Sacred Cows of Science and Religion Meet" has a lot of sensible things to say about this.

Quote
So, can I base my decisions on my belief on scientific findings? Certainly, but in doing so I must remember that Science has its flaws too. It isn't the trump card in this debate.

I also feel that no human endevour, be it scientific research or religious research, is without influences. Many Scientific findings are tainted by what the person wants to achieve, even though aren't supposed to be.

I agree with these two statements whole heartedly.

I'll close by saying that with regard to Science and Religion, one shouldn't have anything to do with the other.   If someone claimed that they have scientifically proven or disproven the existance of God I would be suspuicious of their motives and skeptical of their methods and results.   I am equally suspicious of religious beliefs that stray from the realm of spirutaulity and philosphy into the physical or material world.   I don't think God cares what kind of car I drive or what my favorite flavor of ice cream is. 

My advice:  If your religious leader tells you that God wants you to cut off your balls and kill yourself so he can pickup up in his spaceship that's sailing along in the tal of a comet, you might want to consider going to anohter church.

Don't laugh, it actually happened, ... in California of course, where anything can happen.. ;D

As an afterthought, I should probably add that several of my friends accuse me of having Paranoia Schizophrenia.  I disagree.

Quote
As an afterthought, I should probably add that several of my friends accuse me of having Paranoia Schizophrenia.  I disagree.

They're all out to get you eh!!    ::)

-grumble-

I'm just accused!!!  I can't really have it, because I'm not paranoid, I just exhibit SOME side-effects of it, and my friends find that to be grounds to say that I actually HAVE it.

They're wrong... they have to be!!!  :=

Interesting metaphysics stuff! So did your life change drastically after 45 days? Or did you work it out too late? :P And were you stoned at the time, because I hear sweet, sweet angelic singing when i'm stoned and listen to white noise - its trippy :P If you've got paranoia, I've got dementia. But hey - I can live with that :)

I've also come to the conclusion that we must be gods, that we will live forever in the time period we live in now, and that through hundreds & hundreds of deaths we'll be able to communicate with each other, somehow. Even if we can't, we can still take a new route every life & be with whoever we want to be for however long we want it. If you die anytime soon, please can you haunt me so I can prove this theory correct! :P

That may sound WHACK but it poses another question. If you're not religious, what is it you're beleiving in? What is death to you? :)

oh and PLUG! FoY demo in like, a few days time :D

The 45 days... aren't up yet.  Ironically enough though, once I counted out the days on the calendar the day after I.. err... understood, the message, and the date of the change is supposed to be April 20.  As it turns out, this is Hitler's birthday  :-\

I don't think that song would play in my head, on the exact night 45 days from Hitler's birthday, just becuase I had seen when his birthday was, and decided that it would be a good day for my life to change.  Then again, it may have nothing to do with it at all.  I certainly don't FEEL like it means anything, so it probably doesn't.

About us being gods, do you mean you and I, or everyone?   :P

(I haven't ever been stoned...)

Quote from: Grundislav on Wed 23/11/2005 07:27:13
Something like that happened to me just this morning!

I don't know if it actually happened or if I was just dreaming, but I could swear that something was putting pressure on the top left corner of my pillow.Ã,  I thought to myself "someone is there! I'll look really fast and see who!" but I couldn't move my head.Ã,  I didn't feel scared or threatened, though, and went back to sleep or to another dream, so I think it may have just been a realistic dream.

now we know whats going to happen in ben jordan 6.
ben: i feel something in my bed...
ben checks
ben: alice! what are you doing?

but seriously i have had KIND OF weird encounters, on my paper round i ALWAYS, when passing a house hear weird beeping noises in a pattern at the exact point i step on the driveway and also, if i am awake at like four in the morning and ive had no sleep in a number of hours i hear moderately loud drumming and i get a bit paranoid and twitchy.

Glacies, everyone :) If we're "made in the image of God" then that to me means we pretty much bloody are him :P And effectively we are, or were. We're all part of the same primordial sperm, so to speak! Well, thats just my crazy thoughts anyway, hehehehe.

I realised my earlier comments could be dangerous, if this thread ever gets lost in a cave and is discovered thousands of years later, incomplete - after complete human anihiliation. It could breed a species of terrorists! :O But seriously...well, slightly seriously - I don't know how to describe it, I guess its kind of like an "anti-climax" - where you think something is this great something but really it turns out to be the complete opposite. In this case, that great something is currently a really shit something - tis death - it has so many "bad" things about it, it's 95% sooo painful to get there and 99% of us probably wouldn't consider it. Which must mean it's the best thing ever in hiding! Ok, yeah yeah maybe it is just shit.

Anyway, this is soooo off topic! Back to point - there is a strange presence following me and my girlfriend - only thing is, it's positive energy - so I'm loving it! Well, that is until it forms the shape of a hiddeous ghost and slimes me!

(http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:IFz1bWiyISQJ:www.daviesgeneralstore.com/ebay/Slimer.jpg)

Who's this thread gonna call?

:p

GHOST BUSTERS!!!

I'm a bit of a skeptic about these kinds of things. I think Geoffkahn pretty much nailed it back on page 1...

Quote from: Geoffkahn
You have to keep in mind that a lot of our perception is "in our head." Just like when you look through a glass window, you see both beyond the window and also a reflection back at you. Just like this, we perceive outside of us, but at the same time we get see a "reflection" back into our minds. Something like that.

At the end of the day, given how easy it is to fool our brains into seeing something which isn't there (Stereograms, holograms etc), I don't see how we can make any assuptions about bizarre phenomenoms which we occassionally glimpse other than "that was weird". Besides, we're not really "seeing" anything anyway. We've just got a picture in our heads that our brain has constructed using some sense organs. Who knows what goes on between capturing a frame with our eyes and what we perceive.

I once (when I was in Wales with my GF where she lives) was in a car with my GF, her sister, and her sisters boyfriend. and we drove at night on a road where there was no other cars at that moment.
and, we was talking about ghosts...

I said I diddent believe in them, cause I had no reason to believe in them , since I never seen one.

and as we was talking suddently we all saw something white (quite bright actually) appear in the middle of the road and in a fast speed crossed the road and went into the bushes... the thing is it couldent been an animal, cause it went straight.

I got no explination for it, if it was a ghost I dont know. But it was for sure "unreal".

I havent had anything happen....but someone in my family has...and when my aunt told us, we were all really freaked out because it is soo weird.

My aunt moved into this house with my cousins who were really young at the time. My aunt had been told that an old woman had died in the house before they moved in, but she didnt think much about it....

A few weeks later my uncle was babysitting my cousins and they were in bed and he was downstairs and he said he heard a weird noise and the cat came running down the stairs looking totally freaked out (eyes wide open, hissing at everything) so he ran upstairs to see if my cousins were ok and they were both fast asleep!.

He told my aunt about it when she got home and then a while later my cousin who was like 4 at the time woke up screaming and crying so my aun ran upstairs and into her room and she kept saying there was an old woman sitting at the bottom of her bed.

Now how much of a coincidence is that??? My cousin was 4 and had no idea about the woman who had died there!!!

Still freaks me out talking about it lol.

Probably not paranormal, but a few times in my life I've felt something pushing/pulling my legs down into the bed, and then I could literally jump in bed and wake up, very strange, I feel like I've had a heart attack every time that happens.

I can't help to think that there are supernatural forces out there, god or something else. There is no explanation on how life or the universe began, sure every can believe in evolution but everything has to start somewhere, a bacteria can't just magically appear one day and we all change over many years into humans.

But we have to die to find out, but if there was a god why doesn't he make any appearances, if he wants us all to be saved why doesn't he send a clear sign? Instead we have faith, and if God doesn't exist I wouldn't want to waste all my time in church or having fellowship.

Well, It only COMPLETLY stopped sometime at the start of 2005 but ever since i had watched 'The Truman SHow' I was paranoid that some one was watching me and setting up or deciding what the events of my lif were and how they happened. Sometimes it got so bad that i would stop and scream (usally followed by swear words  ;) ) at walls in random places. This of course annoyed my mum when we had visitors  :).

Anywayz, my belief is simple : 'Stop bothering where you came from and GET ON WITH IT!' And IF I HAD TO choose a religion it would be SHinto or one of those religions where Nature itself is worshipped.

Yes! I have.
My mother gave me a prophecy from God talking to me about something she didn't even know about (and she couldn't have known. I was just thinking about something that was worrying me, and it was worrying me for a couple of days, and in the prophecy it told me not to worry about it.)
So, yes, there ARE clear signs from God... I know other people who've had the same kind of things happen to them. Only problem is, nobody every believes them, because you can never prove what you saw, so it's not like on the Discovery channel or anything. My family had other things happen to them... which creep me out when I talk about them, so I don't want to.
Supposedly, I assume God doesn't talk to you unless you talk to him.

So he sends us to hell if we dont talk to him? Seems a bit silly, because they say even if you're the nicest person and do so much for the world, if you're not a christian/with god then you're going to hell.

The way i see it is...if there really is a god, why does he like bad things happen to good people? Why does he let bad things happen??

In my opinion, there is no god, were here because of evolution, nothing to do with someone putting us here...like that adam and eve stuff, if they had kids, and their kids had kids...then that would be incest and everyone in the world would be related, which is a horrible thought!!.
However i do believe we are all here for a reason, just like every has a purpose in this world....animals, trees, water, earth...

Quote from: Scorpio_Phoenix on Thu 13/04/2006 13:30:15
I havent had anything happen....but someone in my family has...and when my aunt told us, we were all really freaked out because it is soo weird.

My aunt moved into this house with my cousins who were really young at the time. My aunt had been told that an old woman had died in the house before they moved in, but she didnt think much about it....

A few weeks later my uncle was babysitting my cousins and they were in bed and he was downstairs and he said he heard a weird noise and the cat came running down the stairs looking totally freaked out (eyes wide open, hissing at everything) so he ran upstairs to see if my cousins were ok and they were both fast asleep!.

He told my aunt about it when she got home and then a while later my cousin who was like 4 at the time woke up screaming and crying so my aun ran upstairs and into her room and she kept saying there was an old woman sitting at the bottom of her bed.

Now how much of a coincidence is that??? My cousin was 4 and had no idea about the woman who had died there!!!

Still freaks me out talking about it lol.

well i found it difficult to sleep cuz of the creepiness of that.

Yeah it is creepy!! i never believed in anything until that happened, but its 2 much of a coincidence to be anything else......and they do say cats and dogs can see things that we cant.

i'm saw i saw that proved wrong on some kid's sciencey sort of show but the whole thing seemed to be going towards saying that ghosts dont exist whatsoever so i wouldnt trust it.

Quote from: Scorpio_Phoenix on Thu 13/04/2006 13:30:15
I havent had anything happen....but someone in my family has...and when my aunt told us, we were all really freaked out because it is soo weird.

My aunt moved into this house with my cousins who were really young at the time. My aunt had been told that an old woman had died in the house before they moved in, but she didnt think much about it....

A few weeks later my uncle was babysitting my cousins and they were in bed and he was downstairs and he said he heard a weird noise and the cat came running down the stairs looking totally freaked out (eyes wide open, hissing at everything) so he ran upstairs to see if my cousins were ok and they were both fast asleep!.

He told my aunt about it when she got home and then a while later my cousin who was like 4 at the time woke up screaming and crying so my aun ran upstairs and into her room and she kept saying there was an old woman sitting at the bottom of her bed.

Now how much of a coincidence is that??? My cousin was 4 and had no idea about the woman who had died there!!!

Still freaks me out talking about it lol.

Now how much of a coincidence is that??? Not a lot. Millions of children awake up everyday by a nightmares. The problem is that we only pay attention to it if the situation is "special", like the one you describe.

I mean: That experience is something remarkable because the guy dreamed with an old lady. If he had dreamed with the doll of the "Stay puff marshmallow candies" you wouldn't be posting about it here.

It is indeed a freaking coincidence... But nothing else, And not an specially strange, considering that ANYTHING related with an old lady stuff should have been considered weird by your family in that house.

I an object turns a time the flight in the sky.  I did not liked very and I very scared. I did not speak on it in the school.

Quote from: Rolf on Sat 15/04/2006 01:07:15
I an object turns a time the flight in the sky.  I did not liked very and I very scared. I did not speak on it in the school.

I saw an object take flight in the sky and turn one time. I didn't like it very much and it scared the crap out of me. I never told a soul where i go to school.

:)

You too??!? ??? ??? ???

Quote from: Rolf on Sat 15/04/2006 01:07:15
I an object turns a time the flight in the sky.Ã,  I did not liked very and I very scared. I did not speak on it in the school.

are you sure it wasnt just a plane?

Yeah it was probably a plane...i always mistake them for something else when i see them at night, with the flashing lights and all....