Adventure Game Studio

I am not sure how many of you are members (or even know) of Pixel Joint but I need to vent here...

I am sick and frickin' tired of Pixel Joint.

The attitudes there are just lousy and pathetic.  I'm all for constructive criticism but the arrogance and flagrantly insulting attitudes there are so beyond pathetic it makes me nauseous.  I know we tend to have some elitism here at AGS (a little bit is inevitable) but the elitist pricks over there at PJ just plain ruin the place.

What the hell difference does it make if I want to use 5 shades of red instead of 2?  But holy fu**ing hell "you used 5 similar shades of red this piece isn't pixel art and shouldn't be allowed in the gallery!!"  I see it time and again over there.

Now I know it's not "my" site and I don't make the rules.  I get that.  I can understand (though I don't agree) with their definitions of what is "pixel" art.  I don't even mind that restriction.  What I cannot tolerate, and will not put up with, are the smug, elitist, and arrogant attitudes that come across over there.

I know I've seen some of you AGSers over there ... have any of you noticed the ridiculous way they treat people?

Mash I've seen you posting over there.  You don't get the abuse, mostly just drooling, but I wonder if you've noticed the piss-poor attitudes towards others?

My most recent piece (which I thought was rather nice) is receiving several comments on it ... and only 1 or 2 mention anything I want to hear.  The rest are just bitchin' and moanin' about "too many colors".  Who the hell are they to tell me how many colors I can or cannot use.  It's just plain ignorant and arrogant.

[/rant]

I wonder what people think about stuff like this?  I mean, there's nothing I can do about it ... I just wonder what others think/have noticed about it.

I'm not a massive fan of Pixel Joint either, to be honest. I presume that it's this thread that's sparked this off...

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/29962.htm# (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/29962.htm#)

?

If so, in this particular case I can kind of see where they're coming from. Now I hate it when people complain about colour use nowadays - Oh noes, it's 32 colours THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN 24 etc. That gets up my nose. However, from the looks of things this pic was a 24bit image saved as a 256 colour GIF which is kind of against the spirit of pixel art. There is a kind of spiritual differnce between bone-fide pixel art, and drawing in Photoshop using the pencil tool... and that difference is mostly about palette control. Whether your palette is 2 colours, 16, 32, 256 is irrelevant but the point is in pixel art you pick the palette manually.

So basically, it's a nice bit of 2D artwork in a pixel-art style but it's not bone-fide pixel art, so I can see why on a site dedicated to that specific art they would get wound up.

Cheers,

CapnBinky

Not much to say but yeah, ffs. Liked your response though. Color Nazis.

You know what though, Binky?

I've never seen anything like that happening in music, for example. I don't recall anyone going "hey! this is not an mp3, you shouldn't post here", or "hey! this is not an orchestral piece you shouldn't post here".

I'm sorry but the indicated thread (thanks Binky) is pethetic! The colo(u)rs (hehe) could very well be an issue, but what about a bit of normal feedback and critic? It's not a fucking 3-d monstrosity made with the Unreal engine or something...

And, above all, I have seen Darths work and he can pixelate. I do see what you mean about the 24-bit pic taken down (dithering?) but still this is a cheap way to cheat, and I wouldn't expect that from Darth. If morons feel that this is what he did, then... well... I hope they are wrong.

I wanna scream the following:"You can take my pencil, you can take my mouse,but ffs my imagination and creativity is mine.."

I'm not saying it's right Nik, just that I can understand it from a site dedicated to pixel art. If it had been posted on a general 2D art site then there wouldn't be any problems.

To use your analogy it'd be like doing a C64 SID chip tune, but actually using SID sounding synths. Posted on a music forum as "Here's my C64 style tune" and it'd get raved about. Posted on a C64 SID tune forum and you'd get a similar-to-pixel-joint response.

The ONLY thing I did on that picture that was "cheating" was I created a shadows layer to get the color values for the shadowed areas and I duplicated some of the floor tiles so as to not have to do EVERY one of them.  And the shadowed areas were still pixeled out pixel by pixel ... I just don't see what they whine about.

The entire image is pixeled by hand.  There were no gradients or ANYthing that caused the image to "downgrade" when saving as a GIF.  I will post the original version as a PNG to prove my point (but I can't right now 'cause I'm on a new computer and Photoshop happens to be installing right now).

There might be a few more colors than 256 ... but not a lot more.  I don't create a palette and then stick to it.  I select colors as I go and don't worry about it as I don't see what difference it makes if there's 12 colors of 16 million.  It's ART ... art is what you make of it, not the number of colors used.

And yes, that's the thread that sparked this rant ... but my distaste has been growing for some time over the piss-poor attitudes some of them display over there.  As I said, I don't mind constructive criticism, but what they do is just childish insulting and not constructive.

Original image coming soon...

I'm pretty much agreed with Captain Binky regarding colours... as long as the colours in the palette are selected individually (no auto-aa or noise filters, for example) and placed by hand, I don't really care how many colours there are if it suits the picture.  However, to me, pixel art is all about control, and a huge, repetitive palette indicates that things weren't controlled as tightly as they could have been.  That does NOT mean that that picture is bad, and I would never condemn a picture based purely on colour count (btw, I'm talking in general here, not about DM's piece specifically :))

As for the attitudes, I haven't encountered much of that myself on my own gallery, but I have seen it in some other places.  I think that's largely a byproduct of the age of the average PJ user, which is pretty darn young (I always feel so old there ;)).  Many simply follow the ideas of some of the more experienced users, and transform general principles (eg. "try to conserve colours") into black-and-white rules ("using many colours is bad").  In addition, much of the time it's the same people who get involved in those types of discussions, so I think that attitude seems more prevalent than it really is.


EDIT: well, this topic mushroomed while I was writing this post ;)

Before I reply, please remember that I'm not having a go - I have no ties to Pixel Joint, I never post there, I'm not interested in ever posting there, and I'm about as far away from a colour Nazi as you can get.

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 23/02/2008 21:52:06I don't create a palette and then stick to it.  I select colors as I go and don't worry about it as I don't see what difference it makes if there's 12 colors of 16 million.

But you see, if you were making genuine pixel art then you would have stuck to your palette.  Like I said before, there's more to pixel art than just drawing with a single pixel brush.

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 23/02/2008 21:52:06It's ART ... art is what you make of it, not the number of colors used.

Agreed. That is the case for art generally. But pixel art is as much a technical skill as it is an art form.

I don't do pixel art myself. I cheat wherever and whenever I can. I don't give a monkeys about my palette, I frequently combine pixelled work with painted Photoshop work, and it is for all of these reasons that I don't post the results on Pixel Joint, because it's not actual bone-fide pixel art as they would define it.

I have a Pixel Joint account, and I rarely post there for similar reasons as you describe, though I'm not really concerned what people will say about my work; if you don't have enough self-confidence to accept when you're doing bad/well, having other people tell you isn't really going to help.  As far as color usage goes, I personally give people a lot of latitude, but I can see where they are coming from also.  When you post in a forum (any forum), you have to go by how the system there works, Darth.  Pixel Joint is a place for old school (and I mean old school), traditional 2d pixel pushers, and as such, they all go by set palettes and are extremely interested (and anal-retentive) regarding color theory.  You either have to accept this and work with their system or post your work somewhere like deviantart or here, where the requirements and people aren't so stringent.  Also, I know you said you don't care about limiting your colors but I happen to know from experience that learning how to do more with less really, really improves color usage overall.  It's something to consider!

Oh, and I liked your image!  Skin tones looked a bit weird but the perspective and gradients were very nice.

I have pixeljoint account, its inkspot. http://www.pixeljoint.com/p/912.htm?pg=1&sec=icons And I like Joint. there is nothing wrong with it. Those who complain mostly seem to be noobs. I have been there almost from the beginning and I never had a problem.

You know, a good artist must have respect for criticism, and by that i don't mean criticism by others, but you must have a critical eye also.

Remember, everything is not worth posting.

I don't want to sound harsh here, but I have noticed a lot of disgusting things in AGS community also. I know, everybody isn't made for art, but goddamn it, if you already are trying to make it, then do some kind of research at least, see how the styles are constructed etc. Have some critical eye and don't post shit, because, you know, some of the games in AGS database truly do make me puke.

If databases are full of shit then it will keep people away, especially professionals who could be our guiding lights. All kinds of shit is still accepted at pixelscene of Deviantart, though. But it also depends how good job ShoneGold does...

As I said ... I don't mind crits.  I have been showing my "art" to people my entire life both professional and hobbiest stuff alike.  I can take criticism.  I can even take those not liking it.  It's not that at ALL (and maybe I wasn't clear enough about that.)  I don't like the WAY they respond to images over there.  It's rude, childish, and ignorant.

Also, as I said, I understand it's their site thus their rules.  My gripe isn't about that.

I'm off to see a movie... back later!

Oh, don't be a crybaby! There are a lot ruder things in a world, you know.

Besides, I haven't seen much rudness in PJ. But then again, I haven't been much browsing lately also.

Oh, I now saw the tread you were talking about. http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/29962.htm# Sorry, but I don't see any rude comments there. Only people are asking whats up with 256 colours. You know, pixel graphics is always presented as is, original and it is very sensitive to compression. If you used more than 256 colours, then post the original. Yes, PJ and me wouldn't accept colour reduced, compressed or otherwise non-original or aoutomatically processed pictures.

And colour count does matter actually. It improves your sense of composition and you learn to get by with less. I remember when i started at pixel graphics, I was against it too, but since I abandoned that attitude, my skills improved alot.   Remember: limited amount of colours or just try at lesser colours makes you pay more attention to the colours and therefore your colour sence improves, you start to see every detail and evetually you get better at your art. Look at Fools pictures at PJ for example, he absolutely pays attention to every single pixel, and look what pictures he makes. Its not neccesarily the drawing skills, its also the colours! If you like just picking arbitary colours you miss half of the things.

But the true reason behind it is that with lesser colours, you can change every one of them one by one. Therefore you have more control over your picture and can change the tones very easily.

Oh, and Darth, so you probably spent more time than really needed on that pic, since you had to pick more colours and therefore place more pixels...? No wonder it took you 6 hours then.

Sorry, but I don't see any problem.

This is going to get me in trouble.
Don't be so angry Darth! At least no one said "read the forum rules and tell me when you're ready to follow them"!

read the forum rules and tell me when you're ready to follow them

Their argument is fucking stupid. I know there are elitist types who are all about palette control and all that, and sure, BACK IN THE DAY when graphics manipulation programs were NOT AS ADVANCED, you would be restricted. Why should the fact that the availability of better software and colour reducers and automatic dithering get people upset because you are not doing it 'proper'?

Fucking snobby attitude. If it looks good and serves a purpose and a scene made with pixels to look old-school, then in my opinion it is pixel fucking art. Its not lazy to be effiecient and use tricks. It's called cunningness. Yeah, sure you may want to tweak the odd pixels to make it look more asthetic, but does the use of an automatic dither make it any less retro?

C U next tuesday pixelwhores.

I will never join that forum, i'm not 1337 enough for them cause i am too cunning.

If you are so cunned and modernized, then why not make a brush, vector or a 3d... At least show a decent pixel...
Oh, and just to make shure, pixelart is not about retro, while some of the works might be, the average is not at all.

And yeah, i bet you are as cunned as Fool or Steve...

Since when has art ever been about following rules?
If anything, all the best art does exactly the opposite.

The Colour Nazis should start calling it Pixel Design if they are going to start implementing a code of conduct.

Quote from: Layabout on Sun 24/02/2008 00:54:28
Fucking snobby attitude. If it looks good and serves a purpose and a scene made with pixels to look old-school, then in my opinion it is pixel fucking art. Its not lazy to be effiecient and use tricks. It's called cunningness. Yeah, sure you may want to tweak the odd pixels to make it look more asthetic, but does the use of an automatic dither make it any less retro?

(http://www.cgempire.com/chris/mrt.gif)

:)

While I agree wholeheartedly that obsession with the amount of colours in a piece of pixel art is annoying, I would also say that the definition of pixel art is not as wide as all that. Sure when in game development cheating at everything you can is not only sensible, but often required, but a site that exists purely for the showcase of pixel art purely for the sake of pixel art, you can well understand people being picky about palette management. To be honest it annoys me much more when people obsess or get shot down for it here, as this site is an AGS game forum, not a pixel art forum. And it does happen.

I love PixelJoint, and I visit it at least once a week - even have an account there, with one lousy image I put up ages ago.

But I'm hesitant to ever put any work on there because I don't feel good enough to join in their forums with my art at it's current level.

Now, I know this may seem silly on my behalf, but I keep getting visions of people criticising me on exactly this sort of situation - using 12 shades of green, cheating by using the fill tool (heh - jokes) or whatever. I'm not saying that I think PixelJoint people are bad people because I love lurking there but I just feel like anything below a certain level of art or not sticking to a fairly specific set of techniques either gets lost in the sea of works by people who are *not* (for the most part) making their art for games but for the sake of art OR criticised because you're not as good as Fool.

I am sure there are people there who will take the time to help you improve your works and show you tips etc, and I mean no judgement on the people of PixelJoint, for I respect many of them greatly, but this is the way I feel about the situation

I don't know why I feel a need to chime in, but here goes...

These people were being assholes about it, but they do have a point. By the standards of their community, the picture you posted wasn't "real" pixel art. Since we've had one comparison to music, I'm going to make another one to something else...

Let me introduce you to Iambic Pentameter Joint! This imaginary (or so I sincerely hope) community is devoted to poems composed in iambic pentameter, the rhythmic meter famously used by Shakespeare. They are purists about their preferred format of verse, and some members look down on other poetic forms such as the hexameter, the alexandrine, or (horror of horrors!) free verse. Now, if you post a poem that generally follows iambic pentameter to some generic poetry site, you could expect it to be evaluated on the basis of its poetic merit alone. However, if you post it to IPJ, you have to accept that any divergence from the pentametric form is going to attract criticism.

Now, even Shakespeare didn't stick rigorously to the pentameter, so you could argue that IPJ are being too anal about the poems they allow, but it's their community, so they can make whatever criteria they like. And I'm sure they would argue that the constraints of an inflexible poetic meter teaches discipline which will eventually make you a better poet. But, of course, if you don't like the people who hang out there, by all means stay away. It's their loss.

Like he said! :D

Like I said; I know it's their site, thus their rules.  I don't have a problem with the rules. (for the 10th time)

I feel like I'm having to repeat this over and over ...

This "gripe" is about childish and snotty attitudes that are displayed there.  Yes, constructive criticism can be harsh, but there is a VAST difference between constructive criticism and just plain rude, mean spirited, and snotty remarks that serve no purpose.

Every time I take a stand on the bad attitudes over there, I get PMs from people saying how they can't stand the attitudes displayed there either.  Or how they don't post there anymore specifically because of the crap attitudes.  I'm not alone in disagreeing with the general "tone" of the place.  And that's really sad.

I have used limited palettes before.  It can be fun.  But my "style" is not palette restricted.  I don't mind changing it up a bit from time to time but that particular piece (linked to earlier in this thread) was for a contest there that specifically said "no restrictions".  And the entire image WAS laid down pixel by pixel.  Yes I used a shadow layer, but I still laid down the pixels one at a time.

It's not that my piece uses a lot of colors.

It's not that some felt it necessary to comment on the color count.

It's how they expressed their comments.

And to address the following:

Quote from: radiowaves on Sat 23/02/2008 22:17:13I don't want to sound harsh here, but I have noticed a lot of disgusting things in AGS community also. I know, everybody isn't made for art, but goddamn it, if you already are trying to make it, then do some kind of research at least, see how the styles are constructed etc. Have some critical eye and don't post shit, because, you know, some of the games in AGS database truly do make me puke.

This is the very attitude that is at the root of the problem here.  Just because a person might not be at the same level as others (Fool for example) that should mean they can't post on Pixel Joint?  That's ridiculously arrogant.  Everybody pixels differently and to try and say that somebody shouldn't post a piece of art just because it's not as "good" as Fool's work is the worst kind of elitism.

Quote from: radiowaves on Sat 23/02/2008 22:27:59Oh, don't be a crybaby! There are a lot ruder things in a world, you know.

This is a good example of the very attitude that sparked this thread.  It's derogatory and serves no purpose.  I wasn't crying in the slightest.  I was expressing my disagreement with something and giving my reasons and justifications for it.  There was no "crybaby" involved.

Quote from: radiowaves on Sat 23/02/2008 22:27:59Oh, and Darth, so you probably spent more time than really needed on that pic, since you had to pick more colours and therefore place more pixels...? No wonder it took you 6 hours then.

Another prime example of the Pixel Joint syndrome ... I mean no offense to you in any way here but who are you to tell me how long I should take on a piece of ART? 

Quote from: radiowaves on Sat 23/02/2008 22:27:59Sorry, but I don't see any problem.

Which is, to my thinking, why the problem exists in the first place.

Unfortunately, there will always bad attitudes on websites, and especially when the average user is quite young :(

QuoteI'm not alone in disagreeing with the general "tone" of the place.  And that's really sad.

It does make me sad that a few people can turn people off the site, because I really do think it's only a few and not a major portion of the user base.  If you don't visit often you probably won't recognize names, but there are some people I find quite rude--not to me personally, but to others--and, unfortunately, some of them post a lot.

Helm posts there and he doesn't shoot down people for not doing things his way, nor does buloght, MashPotato or many other AGSer's I've seen there.  Unfortunately, people are often influenced by a society's most vocal residents/contributors, and I would definitely agree that the more vocal posters in PixelJoint tend to be really, really anal-retentive about what constitutes 'true' pixel art and about their own internal rule set for composition.  I will say, though, that the site has some really interesting competitions at times and I have been tempted on more than one occasion to enter.  I really just don't have time to juggle multiple forums effectively, though, which makes AGS enough for me (and CGEmpire occasionally)!

And let's stop the personal attacks here.  You know who you are, and there's no excuse for that behavior.

Quote from: MashPotato on Sun 24/02/2008 06:03:26Unfortunately, there will always bad attitudes on websites, and especially when the average user is quite young :(

Regrettably sad, but true.

Quote from: MashPotato on Sun 24/02/2008 06:03:26It does make me sad that a few people can turn people off the site, because I really do think it's only a few and not a major portion of the user base.  If you don't visit often you probably won't recognize names, but there are some people I find quite rude--not to me personally, but to others--and, unfortunately, some of them post a lot.

I could give a lot of examples (linking to pieces there that received the PJA (pixel joint attitude)) but honestly I don't care to devote any more time to this subject!  I appreciated your crits in that thread by the way :)

Quote from: ProgZmax on Sun 24/02/2008 06:12:00And let's stop the personal attacks here.  You know who you are, and there's no excuse for that behavior.

Was that to me?  If so, who did I attack?  Radiowaves?  I didn't call him a crybaby...

No, it wasn't to you.  Stop being defensive!  8)

DON'T ACCUSE ME OF BEING DEFENSIVE!!!  ;D

Darth, you're just too used to the friendliness of AGS's critics lounge :)
I think the attitude over at Pixel Joint is pretty much prevalent across the intraweb's more specialised art-communities.

Of all those comments, only MrMister comes across as a real asshole, in the sense that he wasn't interested a bit in giving constructive criticism, just being moronic. Then again, in his gallery you'll find pieces like this (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/29199.htm) one, so it's probably just jelously :)

I'm not an expert when it comes to pixel art, but the little I know is that the quality of a piece is pretty much determined by how wisely you choose colours. Using high amounts of near identical shades is basically a big no-no.

MrMister seems like a complete twat, and if you look at his comments to other pieces, you can see he's always like that.

"Bunny's don't have breasts" he says, or something like that, about a female bunny woman. It's NOT REAL!!

Pixel nerds being nerdy about pixels. What a novel phenomenon. ;)

You have to expect this kind of behaviour in any highly specialized community. Doesn't make it any less frustrating of course. And it's not just on art forums, I've seen people get blasted for using the wrong text editor in several programming related mailing lists. Elitists are everywhere, though thankfully there are not many around in the AGS forums. Don't get why an obvious troll like that MrMister hasn't been banned already though.


Nice piece Darth, though I have to agree about the arms being a bit too stiff.

You know, Darth, the way I see it, it's partly your fault. Why? Well, that's simple.

This is why (http://www.pixeljoint.com/p/12377.htm?pg=1&sec=yak).

A troll came along, and you engaged him :P The others weren't really being all that jerky, but this guy's just the cherry on top of the cake of retardation. Never ever feed the troll.

I can understand that the PJA annoys you, but try to work around it rather than fight it, because it's a side-effect of any specialized community and it's not going to change easily. Keep this in mind, and don't let a guy who says "sorry no one in america gives a fuck aboot sweden" give you trouble. Just ignore the fuck and be done with it.

Hey Darth, don't get discouraged. It's a good piece and I enjoy seeing your work on PJ. As of late, the membership has boomed, and between the influx of new members and required comments for "promotion", there's a plethora of idiocy on parade.

Keep in mind that pixel art is unlike any other medium -- it was born out of technical limitations. As a result, it tends to be a less gestural vehicle for creative executions. Control is key in everything from AA placement to palette management. Some people idolize color count minimization. To me, the color count doesn't matter as long as it's justifiable. Do the extra shades enhance the impact of the piece? If you auto-reduced the palette, would the color degradation be noticeable? The best pixel art pieces are the ones that celebrate the medium.

I totally understand you not wanting to fuck around with the color count. It's tedious, and only anal retentive masochists (myself included) actually get satisfaction from it. From the bulk of your work I've seen, you tend focus on polish and textures, with inspiring results. As an experiment, I'd suggest abandoning the pixel aesthetic altogether. It was a good starting point (and it still works for the games and animation you make), but for a piece of stand-alone art, it may be holding you back. 

Above all, keep creating!

I move silently through various other forums, not unlike a heavy-set ninja, and it really makes you appreciate the (largely) good-natured attitude of these very boards.

Elitism, and scoring (imaginary) points by belittling other and, more often than not, newer members, is, in my opinion, the sign of a person who feels that doing such makes up for all the inadequacy they experience in "real life".

The internet, to these people, is akin to a balaclava; they can say or do anything they want, with more or less total anonymity.

I never saw the appeal of "winning" a forum debate, though to define such "discussions" as such is overly generous, a I certainly never saw the appeal of verbally "bitch-slapping" a stranger over subjects of such little importance.

"Your art is very nice, but doesn't strictly adhere to the rules we have in place." End of discussion.

Having said that, Darth did refer to the 256 colours in his initial picture comments, so to bring the subject up at all was pointless. The first seven comments for his piece refer to the colour count. Beyond the posts of Mash Potato and ProgZmax, almost all the other comments make reference to the overuse of colours. MrMister is trolling, sure, but others make similar disparaging comments about who deserves respect and whatnot.

It seems to me that an unhealthy number of forums are based on the rule that everybody who joins deserves no respect, until decided otherwise by the forum "elders".

But should we care? Should we feel slighted by such remarks, when made by faceless people? Except for myself, I can't say. Darth's first response was sarcastic, which may not be the right way to begin, and the "color nazis" comment was a little aggressive.

Basically, Darth could've turned the other cheek. But, in the end, that's his own decision to make.

Well I have to say I've been treated pretty fairly by PixelJoint on a personal level.  Sometimes people will post things without a full understanding of what's going on in a piece (or without reading the comments left by the artist) and that can be annoying.  I think that rather than engage people who you know are just out there to make themselves look good at your expense, focus on the constructive criticism instead.  If there's one thing people hate (especially on the internet) it's being ignored, and after awhile the annoying people go elsewhere to be heard.  Great points by BB and Fish, additionally.

Since nobody has mentioned it yet:
There's pixelation (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php).

It seems to be what you're looking for (although I'm sure you already know the site).
The guys over there are also anal-retentive about color counts, but in a nice, constructive way.

Helm's a moderator at Pixelation, I believe!  Some nice art over there.

I don't post there often, but Pixelation is a very useful forum and I've learned a lot there :).  And really, I have at PixelJoint as well--being a member there encouraged me to just pixel, and practice is the first step to improvement :)

Sounds to me like a bunch of n00bs are trying to rate art.
N00bs as people who don't know how to comment on art.
One thing is knowing how to draw, way another is how to criticize works of other people.

Why Pixel Joint, anyway?
Our CL is the best place ever.

I've seen some rude behavior there as well. I just ignore it because in my experience the majority of people on this planet are utterly stupid and it's useless trying to get some sense into them.

Also...

Quote from: radiowaves on Sun 24/02/2008 01:14:58
Oh, and just to make shure, pixelart is not about retro

What now? When did this change?

And some noobs like to call others noobs...

An artist should never overestimate his skill and work.

Darth... MrMister was trolling. You should have ignored his posts and moved on.

That way, you don't decend to their level. Its like politicians heckling in the Houses of Parliament - the PM ignores them because it serves him no good reason to respond.

And I respect that you were being criticised for "zomg its got too many colours", which is just plain pathetic on their part.

- Huw

What a complete ASS!!! He was definitely trolling.

also, MrMister is giving a good band a bad name.

Remember that Darth started this thread because he felt the need to vent to his friends on here (people who understand and can put themselves in his shoes) and not feel attacked, lectured or criticized -- some people are way too into the technicalities and forgetting that they might be rude and hurtful in the process.

I thought his piece on Pixel Joint was beautiful and handled with a lot of care and precision (6 to 8 hours is a lot of time dedicated to such a small image, I would never be able to achieve something like that). The one reason I rarely vent on public forums is because of how painful, hurtful and judgmental the replies may be; you open up only to get kicked in the face.

Same with posting a piece of your own art, it's like having spent so much of your time and effort only to get it violently shred apart. I understand that constructive criticism is needed to help us advance and get better but sometimes an insulting attitude can have the opposite effect; discouraging and alienating. Darth clearly explained in his posts that it's the way people replied to his pixelart drawing that bothered him -- the lack of respect, the snottiness as well as the insulting attitudes.

Anyway... we're not in Critics Lounge here, can't we just be supportive?

Domino - that was funny (about the band!)

I just want to re-iterate.

This isn't:

[whine] nobody liked my art!!! [/whine]

It's:

[sick n tired] there a lot of bad attitudes over there [/sick n tired]

I appreciate the support you have offered (some of you!).  It's good to know I'm not the only one noticing!

edit - just read Nightfable's post... she nailed my sentiments quite nicely :)

It's weird. I know that I can rate someone's drawing fairly when I'm able to make it myself. Or atleast, get close.
Because that means that I can understand the workload and effort, understand difficulties and detect laziness.

If you get negative, anal crits from someone, better see who it is. Artists are weird. Maybe someone, who's launching attacks at your palette/whatever, happens actually to be a moron who can only draw same thing in same colors and that's basically concludes his skill.
I know alot of people, who have mastered - for example - drawing Mickey Mouse and call everything else pointless and stupid. But never dare to draw anything else, to cover their actual lack of talent.

What I don't understand is that holy aura around term "pixel art".
Hey, those are lit lamps on your screen, not a damn religion. Rules? What rules?

Anyway, that's a magnificent picture. What are they bitching about, anyway?