http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=getp=343431
Im going with politically incorrect, and find it a bit funny. But should I find it funny? Is the line between political incorrecness and tastless humor really this close?
I never understood this - why an elephant?
... I hope that was a joke response. However, I don't know why it's an elephant. ???
It's the symbol for Rebublicans... Duh!
:-p
It is theoretically impossible for a photoshop containing president Bush to be amusing anymore, it doesn't matter how politically incorrect it is.
As for the elephant (the republican party symbol), I guess it is kind of an odd symbol for a political party, here is an explanation (http://www.meckgop.com/elephant.html).
Oooh, thanks scotch!
Inaresin'!
No! It's not tasteless. It sheds(sp) some light towards the truth I say!
Politicall incorrect I think is what the world needs right now (USA, UK, etc...) and I know that some members here think the same... ;)
Quote from: Nikolas on Sat 12/11/2005 06:44:53
It sheds(sp) some light towards the truth I say!
I wouldn't say so. But heck, I don't even live in America - so I can't formulate much of an opinion other than what the internet tell me and, you know, I wouldn't want to jump on the hate bush bandwagon or anything.
Quote from: Nikolas on Sat 12/11/2005 06:44:53
Politicall incorrect I think is what the world needs right now.
I don't know about needs, but they certainly need to lighten up on the subject.
And no, the picture doesn't offend me or anything - nor is it particularly amusing.
Quote from: Nikolas on Sat 12/11/2005 06:44:53
... world needs right now (USA, UK, etc...)
Thanks for informing me of the USA and UK's status as part of the world.
Tasteless or not, the joke's been done to death. A friend of mine described jokes about the comparisons between Bush and Hitler as "shooting dead fish in a barrel with a bazooka". Search the web and you'll find oodles of the same material. Any lazy, generic internet comedian can make a "bush=hitler lol" joke. To really mock Bush requires more effort.
EDIT: In fact, screw that. Why bother mocking Bush? The man doesn't need anyone to mock him. He's a self-mocking man. Have you seen some of the shit he's done over the last 6 months? Harriet Miers for Supreme Court? Hahahahahaha, oh Bush, you jokester! Can't get fooled again, indeed!
See, many people were so bummed out after Bush won re-election. Not me. I have been laughing my arse off watching him fuck up again... and again... and again... and again... Fuck, I'd vote him in for a third term just for another four years of hilarity!
Hey, look at that. bush's fuck-up has caused even MORE pointless deaths!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Actually, I think Bush is the best president yet.
JUST KIDDING
...I almost got you there, didn't I?
Our political system is rigged, no matter if it's a republican or democrat. It really doesn't matter who takes office: George Bush, John Kerry, Hilary Clinton, OJ Simpson, Micheal Jackson, and so on... the american people and other parts of the world are just screwed. As an American, I'm ashamed of many of the atrocities we cause ourselves internally, and those other countries we deal with externally.
We live in some really sad times... mainly because of the loss of faith and the denial of the one true God.
Quote from: rharpe on Sat 12/11/2005 21:09:03
We live in some really sad times... mainly because of the loss of faith and the denial of the one true God.
You're kidding right? Last time I checked, muslim extremists blowing themselves up for their one true God and christian fundamentalists banning evolution textbooks weren't exactly making the world a better place...
I believe he was referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Well, it's good to see a christian american who thinks that about Bush and stuff. Most christian american people I've talked to are big Bush supporters. Not that I have anything against them, but I got tired of the "our Godly president is protecting our country" mindset.
Personally, I don't like Bush but I actually have a feeling that Kerry would be even worse :P - but that's for no particular reason, politics are just not my thing.
As a candadian, I agree with the sentiment behind the joke, george bush is a idiot, but comparing him to a nazi IS rather tasteless, I personly like to consider my self a lleft wing christian, , but i have an agile mind and think debate produses the best results in the end,, ( I also think its great fun too) pushing ONE view i(lef or riight ) in such a tasteless manner is silly, I dont like george bushes policys one bit, but this is just STUPID. but I 'm sure 98 1/2 oof u disagreee with me, lets keep commenting and thinking and postin'
Did you know its apparently now politically incorrect to say; "Ladies & gentlemen", you should now address an 'audience' with, "Hello, everyone" etc - because apparently ladies are the bitches of sirs or something and blah blah blah...
Political correctness pisses me off! Sooner or later everything is going to flip round and we won't be allowed to speak! And I also swear that one of these days there's going to be some kind of loop-hole which occurs through all this political correctness that makes it legal for people to kill each other, or makes terrorism legal or something.
I think it's tasteless. I think George Bush is an idiot (and a moron), but as I've said a few times on these forums (and in real life): he is nowhere near as bad as Hitler. Comparing them is stupid, not funny, because he IS a bad president, there is nothing funny about that. He's just dumb and not prepared to conduct anything other than electricity.
I'm liberal, but given the choice of Bush and Gore in 2000, I would've voted for Bush - Gore really looked like an asshole (there, the liberal mascot ;) ) and he made sure everyone thought he was.
I tend to agree with those who say that Kerry would probably be just as bad, but that doesn't make Bush any better.
I honestly have no respect for someone who simply says "Bush sucks because he's hitler." People who mindlessly insult any politician makes me think "shut up, and come back when you decide to make an argument".
QuoteWow... No, seriously, just wow... You know VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY little about communism, and the concept of it. Wow.
That's what someone said on the mmorpgmaker forums, on a discussion about communism. That kind of comment is just plain stupid (especially when this comment was made to a short-tempered moderator). A friend of mine (well, not really, he just sorta follows us and acts like an asshole) said this: "You know, steven, I think you could be a politician someday. Yea, you should become the president. I can imagine your inaguration speech: "I'm a republican, screw all the democrats! I am evil! Free guns to all convicted criminals!" And this was during a serious political debate, which really angered me.
No, I'm not really that angry at this thing, it's just not funny or serious and thus shouldn't exist. I hate Michael Moore type democrats who photoshop images to include a swastica(someone correct my spelling on that) instead of the american flag.
EDIT:DG, that was amusing... no matter what, there's no way anyone can find your post unfunny.
Quote from: Janik on Sat 12/11/2005 21:21:16
You're kidding right? Last time I checked, muslim extremists blowing themselves up for their one true God and christian fundamentalists banning evolution textbooks weren't exactly making the world a better place...
Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.
As far as the Democrusader goes, I don't know about all the conspiracy theories concerning population reduction or most other apocalyptic visions, but we're certainly working our way towards at least a global economy.. and for some time, now (an aspiration of Hitler's). Bush's administration just kind of takes that effort by the reigns and whips the ship out of the horse. He's kind of loosing the Senate, and the lies he's been told to feed are coming back to haunt him. If the administration told everyone what this fight with Saddam (nothing to do with 9-11) was actually about, most people probably would have opted for an electric car and a tighter homeland defense. Not a multi-billion dollar war, and color coded terror flags. Personally, I don't believe in terrorists, and the potential for my neighbor to mistakenly believe me to be some kind of threat for expressing myself, and have me investigated.. "F" that. U.S. citizens being investigated for making jokes on the internet. The friggin' Patriot Act. So the Cold War has kind of turned into something ugly, but restricting our speach, rather than just.. telling the truth. My God!! Do you have something to hide, Mr. Bush and Co.?!?! Daddy's "NewÃ, :-XÃ,Â
They certainly don't present a good lasting case for themselves, hiding their intentions behind a lot of fancy military Ops names... or stick together.. work well.. or keep a lot of people from dying.. simply cause a lot (of certain people) to die.. and continue to restrict freedom to propagate "his own" [canned laughter] agenda. Resembles Hitler in no way.
No, he's a great president.
Not to divert the thread too much, but that Communist quote could've been quite applicable depending upon the circumstances. Much of America's people know little or nothing about it, and Communist has used in the same sense as Nazi or Fascist has been for some time now.
The image, back on topic, is almost hyperbolic enough to be a Somethingawful picture. Agreeing with most of the posters, it's neither offensive nor amusing. I voted Kerry in the last election - not as an "anybody but Bush" vote, nor because I think Kerry would be much better, more for their cabinet and in an attempt to bring some balance to the government by putting a Democrat somewhere in the decision-making process. Although, had he won, he'd essentially be crippled by the Republican-dominated legislature.
Ah, my Federalist Republic, you give me two choices and they both blow.
Chirstians find God through Christ. I think Muslims see this as waiting around for someone to come fix your problems. I think they also consider it worshipping God through a man, and wrong. Islam mean something like 'one god, and only one god', and I think it was kind of a responce to how some people treated Jesus, or the Virgin Mary.
I think it's mostly about freewill. Christians believe God gave us freedom to choose, and I think Muslims think it's a little more guided. Just a little more. I'm not really sure.
p.s. - and I wonder how doctored that actual image of bush is. The filter, yeah, but he could have actually been caught making that pose. Not that it meant anything, or was even intentional.
p.p.s. - and PI or tastless, I don't know.. It's creative. I give 'em an "E" for effort.
Sometimes this forum reminds me of listening to AM talk radio....
Shut up, cut his mic, I don't want to dress Squinky down anymore...
Quote from: Eggie on Sat 12/11/2005 20:45:41
Hey, look at that. bush's fuck-up has caused even MORE pointless deaths!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Since we're doing "bush=hitler lol"...
Chaplin made fun of Hitler in The Great Dictator and was nominated for three Oscars, even though Hitler was responsible for the deaths of over 9 million jews. Go figure.
In all fairness though, imdb lists these two pieces of trivia for the film:
Quote
# Charles Chaplin said that had he known the true extent of Nazi atrocities, he "could not have made fun of their homicidal insanity".
# Some reports refute Charles Chaplin's claims of ignorance as to the true extent of Nazi atrocities, stating that Chaplin was very much aware of the various goings-on, but decided to make the film anyway as an attack on Nazi ideology.
Wow. That is just plain retarded.
Amazing how everyone blames everything on the president. It was his crew that decieved him into believing there were weapons of math instruction in Iraq. As for sending troops there, I think it's better than letting Iraq fall into anarchy, and possibly instigate MORE terror attacks.
Sure, he's an idiot, but he's better than a lot of other presidents we've had.
Quote from: PyroMonkey on Sun 13/11/2005 14:11:32
Amazing how everyone blames everything on the president. It was his crew that decieved him into believing there were weapons of math instruction in Iraq.
So, what you're saying is that it's not his fault, he's just gullible?
QuoteAs for sending troops there, I think it's better than letting Iraq fall into anarchy, and possibly instigate MORE terror attacks.
Umm, those things happened when he DID send troops into Iraq.
QuoteSure, he's an idiot, but he's better than a lot of other presidents we've had.
Yep, he's better than Nixon and....
Nixon...
err...
Nixon...
The one Bush Image that still makes me laugh...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Haddas/lorfflebush.jpg)
Since we are now under the "bush = monkey lol" joke, I might as well post this http://www.boomersfunnies.com/Pictures/Bush%20Monkey.jpg ;D
I think it is no longer politically correct to be politically correct.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sat 12/11/2005 14:39:37
He's a self-mocking man.
Right you are DG! Bush has been a comedy gold mine from day 1, but unfortunately, his ignorance and greed has cost lots of life.
As far as the picture goes, I don't have a real problem with the meaning. Bush is an Imperialist, a liar (like most politicians), a thief, and not worthy of the Oval Office.
Granted, he's not launching a genocide or rounding up those he considers to be "inferior" to him... yet.
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Sun 13/11/2005 16:02:16
Since we are now under the "bush = monkey lol" joke, I might as well post this
I think the main joke was that its an ear of corn....
Quote from: Raggit on Sun 13/11/2005 23:07:16
As far as the picture goes, I don't have a real problem with the meaning. Bush is an Imperialist, a liar (like most politicians), a thief, and not worthy of the Oval Office.
See, that's more of what I'd like to see in Bush humour. More jokes about him being an Imperialist, a liar, and a thief. It's more honest than "bush=hitler lol".
DC Simpson's "I Drew This" is a prime candidate for this...
For example: http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/bushandgod.html
Has anyone put any thought into what is actually happening in the background in politics while we are fed the daily news that is owned by the richest people in the world? This may sound way too "conspiracy theory"-like, but let's ask ourselves: "what if...?"
- What if the most influential people, (those that have the most money, power and fame,) use this to control the media to dish out only 75% truth, 20% theory, and 5% blatant errors/lies?
- What if Bush is just a puppet. Maybe going over to Iraq was just a ploy to get complete control over the oil situation. I heard somewhere that Saddam was selling so much oil that it brought the price of oil down. What better way to get the prices back up slowing down the sale. (Off the subject, I heard Microsoft was going to do this with the 360 so that it would sell out... making it easier to keep the prices very high.)
- What if the American people are distracted by what Bush stands for? He says he is against abortion, abortions still exist in the US. He says he is against Gay/Lesbian marriages... they still get married. He says he is against illegal imigration...yet their allowed a legal residence status. But these are issues we worry about and vote for or against... what's happening behind the scenes though? These are evidently trivial in comparison to a much grander conspiracy.
- What if religion was getting in the way of the power mongers? Religous freedom is non existent today. The whole reason why most people left Europe, and migrated to America, was to freely practice their religion. Now we have lossed that priveledge.
- What if God and the Devil do exist? We are right smack in between this spiritual war. The Devil is using everything in his power to bring as many souls to Hell. "Misery desires company."
- What if natural catastrophies, wars, etc., are signs from God? Sometimes bad things can have a butterfly effect of change. Without evil, we would already be in Heaven... (sanity check... this is not Heaven!)
If anyone else would like to add the the What if list... be my guest. :)
what if... you belong in a crazy christian cult and are trying to get all of us to join up?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/jsRedwall/bush_w_csm.jpg
What if... No one was watching the Watcher?!
(http://www.samruby.com/OtherTitles/WhatIf/Whatif2V034.gif)
What if. . . my Kool-Aid tastes a little bit . . . off?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/SANTAELBURRITO/pin.jpg
Dude... What if... we are all, like, ants on a pin that God is using.
Quote from: rharpe on Mon 14/11/2005 03:54:36
- What if the most influential people, (those that have the most money, power and fame,) use this to control the media to dish out only 75% truth, 20% theory, and 5% blatant errors/lies?
What if the media dishes out so much theory and blatant error in order to sensationalize stories and raise the ratings? What if the media always let the crazies with extreme viewpoints have more camera time than level-headed people because the crazies preaching conspiracy theories make for better TV? What if people were so dumb that they believed everything the media shoved down their sad gullible gullets and started believing everything they heard?
Quote
- What if Bush is just a puppet. Maybe going over to Iraq was just a ploy to get complete control over the oil situation. I heard somewhere that Saddam was selling so much oil that it brought the price of oil down. What better way to get the prices back up slowing down the sale. (Off the subject, I heard Microsoft was going to do this with the 360 so that it would sell out... making it easier to keep the prices very high.)
What if the sky was blue? The president of this country has always had to act like a puppet, acting according to the collective will of the people who elected him/her to that position. The issue you seem to be reaching at is whether or not it is the people of the country who now keep the president in power. What if corporate interests (and their campain domations) have more power over the president's actions? i.e. Bush's oil companies are tired of competing with Iraqi oil so he took out Iraq and let our oil companies drill in Alaska. This is a fairly valid question, though not really connected to this thread.
Quote
- What if the American people are distracted by what Bush stands for? He says he is against abortion, abortions still exist in the US. He says he is against Gay/Lesbian marriages... they still get married. He says he is against illegal imigration...yet their allowed a legal residence status. But these are issues we worry about and vote for or against... what's happening behind the scenes though? These are evidently trivial in comparison to a much grander conspiracy.
Are you insinuating that Bush only claims to be against these issues (that happen to be issues that you are against) but if he really were against them he would have done something about it, therefore there's a conspiracy?
What if the president were allowed to rule according to his own whim, bypassing checks and balances and imposing his own crazy religiously-fueled ideas upon an unwilling public. Would you believe he had a secret conspiracy then?
Quote
- What if religion was getting in the way of the power mongers? Religous freedom is non existent today. The whole reason why most people left Europe, and migrated to America, was to freely practice their religion. Now we have lossed that priveledge.
What if you lived in a country where millions of people practiced thousands of religions freely? What if we had any idea what you are talking about?
Quote
- What if God and the Devil do exist? We are right smack in between this spiritual war. The Devil is using everything in his power to bring as many souls to Hell. "Misery desires company."
What if this question had anything to do with a discussion about Bush's politics.
Quote
- What if natural catastrophies, wars, etc., are signs from God? Sometimes bad things can have a butterfly effect of change. Without evil, we would already be in Heaven... (sanity check... this is not Heaven!)
What if natural catastrophies have always been happening? What if natural catastrophies are signs from the planet that we should stop abusing it? What if that butterfly effect is not from me eating shellfish (Leviticus 11:10 - 11:11) but is coming from pollution, drilling in Alaska, the decline in the pirate population, global warming and all that? Furthermore, what if people are percieving natural catastrophies as getting worse because that media we discussed earlier are making a much bigger deal about it for ratings purposes?
And finally, what if there is no heaven? Just throwing that one in there for good measure.
Quote from: Vince Twelve on Mon 14/11/2005 05:02:16
And finally, what if there is no heaven? Just throwing that one in there for good measure.
It's easy to imagine if you try.
I AM THE WALRUS GOO GOO G'JOOB
What if the extreme viewpoints are accurate?
What if people couldn't decipher between the medias truth or lies... can you?
What if the crazy religiously-fueled ideas placed upon an unwilling public were not the presidents?
What if you lived in a country where millions of people practiced thousands of religions, yet you were not allowed to practice your own?
What if there is no heaven? Then again...What if there is?
What if I were running for the presidency... would you vote for me? ;D
Yeah... what if?
QuoteWhat if you lived in a country where millions of people practiced thousands of religions, yet you were not allowed to practice your own?
Who are you talking about?
So this is what its like if the world's favorite words were "What if"
Can we go back to "Ok" please?
Quote from: Hotspot on Mon 14/11/2005 07:40:50
So this is what its like if the world's favorite words were "What if"
Can we go back to "Ok" please?
What if we didn't? ;D
Political in/correct: I've been in Uk, USA, France and Greece of course. Out of these 4 countries USA and UK are the ones with the most political correctness minds (<- You understand what I mean right?). Well the first time I walked in a high street shop and saw a sign saying watch your head (although the door was tall enough for me to pass unharmed and I'm 1.94m) it made me think: "How nice, the store is so considered of the clients. How nice, indeed...". When I started seeing this kind of signs
everywhere I started thinking "Shit, they must think that all human being living here (London, Egham), are stupid, so stupid as not to take care their own self."I mean from the moment that some person in some point in history won a battle in the courts about something simmilar (and thus creating a history in the court), everyone was obligated to make signs like this. It is impossilbe to be fair to
everyone, by default. Can you name me one (1) thing that will not bother anyone? I think not. And since we live in a world that bans holidays (check Darths thread), all that we could do in order to stay politcal correct is to not do anything. And maybe this could be insulting to some guy who can't move? Who knows? And you know what? Political correctness is something that makes people be
nice while in public and even worst when alone. I would be prefer to have people to be just themselves forever.
Guys: Have you ever seen a president ellected by the people for the people (hehe), not to be a puppet. Do you think that one person, one mind can rule a country. This is why we have goverments. Bush
seems do be idiot (I don't know really). But certainly there are people telling him what to do. Blaming the president (of any country actually), for anything wrong for that country, is like blaming an actor for a bad movie. What about the director, what about the co-actors, what about the stunds, the photographers, the make-up artists, the compsers etc.
There's not much that's different except that the current President has neither the wit nor creativity necessary to invent lies and explanations that are either plausible or believable.
The press could be lying? Amazing. Our leaders might not actually give a cute little poop about us? Unfathomable. Really, I find these recent revelations tiring. People are deceived by media in its bulk. Many a person I've spoken to finds the manipulations transparent. On a case-by-case basis, the lies are easy to see, when you compound the situation with varied types of media (Ranging from Fox Nooz to National Public Radio) distributed among a vast variety of people with a great many different backgrounds, it quite effectively keeps everybody deceived about one thing or the other.
An argument that extremist views could be right is a bit of a paradox. How can the extreme anti and extreme pro both be right? If there's some truth to each argument, then the only reasonable position is the middle, or (in other words) think for your damned self instead of aligning yourself with a religious, political, racial, cultural, musical, technological pseudo-identity with a pre-stamped label only able to apply to the most superficial and 1-dimensional of beings.
For Americans against Bush, there's [making careful measurements, weighing factors, judging the balance] precisely [I think I've got it now] jack-shit you can do about it. Why? Because our majority system currently has half on one side of the fence and half on the other. The distinctions are largely of opinion, faith, and very black-or-white issues in the eyes of the people. So, he's gonna be in office for the duration of his term. After that, we get a chance to pick a new guy. Maybe next time the selection will be better, maybe not. My solution, in the interim, is not to concentrate on what I can do to oppose the current administration, but what I can do that's right (in my view) while under the current subset of federal and state laws. Popular opinion says that you must be politically-minded when it comes to the top tier of politicians, but maybe 1 out of 10 people know the name of the mayor of their city.
Really, I wish the offense and defense in the Bush game would both either find something more constructive to do or (at the very least) provide a new perspective or original idea. It's not like either side isn't staffed with liars and manipulators, it's just that you happen to agree with one side or the other.
Quote from: YakSpit
...(in other words) think for your damned self instead of aligning yourself with a religious, political, racial, cultural, musical, technological pseudo-identity with a pre-stamped label only able to apply to the most superficial and 1-dimensional of beings.
I totally disagree! Disregarding your religious, political, racial, and cultural upbringing is like saying, "Everything you know is wrong!" Why would you reverse-engineer your identity???
Metaphorically speaking:
"If you erase the hard drive, how do you expect the OS to boot?"
You totally disagree with what I didn't say. I didn't say to disregard it. Your upbringing is a very important part of your adult life, whether it's learning from the wisdom of your elders and peers or overcoming their mistakes.
I don't recommend disregarding everything in your past when defining yourself, that leaves you a rather uninteresting person whose opinions change on a whim. What I did say, however, was that you shouldn't form yourself around these things, letting your identity be defined by the groups you're affiliated with, rather than being yourself with opinions you share with others. If that's what you disagree with, then I must stand by my post and vehemently rail against those who make their decisions because they're republican, democrat, honor student, rebel, or any other affiliation one would care to make.
A more religious-oriented example: If you vote based upon who your pastor or priest tells you to vote for, you're lost; a single molecule in a vast organism. If you want religious (or other) guidance while you make life decisions, talk to God yourself and see what he wants (I've known several very good examples of this scenario).
Quote from: YakSpitIf you want religious (or other) guidance while you make life decisions, talk to God yourself and see what he wants...
What good is a priest if you can't talk through him, to God? Priests study between 6 to 10 years in a seminary about the faith, morals, and God's expectations. They learn to interpret the Bible and study hard to lead souls to God. With all their knowledge and experience they have, what better person could you possibly think of that could lead you in the right direction? (I'm speaking of a catholic priest, by the way... I don't know anything about pastors, rabbis, warlocks. witches, etc.)
Quote from: Tiki on Sun 13/11/2005 04:21:49
Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.
This might help.
(http://www.allaboutreligion.org/muslim-god-and-christian-god-the-same-faq.htm)
Quote from: FrogMarch on Mon 14/11/2005 22:33:06
Quote from: Tiki on Sun 13/11/2005 04:21:49
Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.
This might help.
(http://www.allaboutreligion.org/muslim-god-and-christian-god-the-same-faq.htm)
This may shine some lite on the two faiths: Crusades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades)
Quote from: rharpe on Mon 14/11/2005 22:24:01
What good is a priest if you can't talk through him, to God? Priests study between 6 to 10 years in a seminary about the faith, morals, and God's expectations. They learn to interpret the Bible and study hard to lead souls to God. With all their knowledge and experience they have, what better person could you possibly think of that could lead you in the right direction? (I'm speaking of a catholic priest, by the way... I don't know anything about pastors, rabbis, warlocks. witches, etc.)
Priests aren't supposed to do all the praying for you. I'm not Catholic because I disagree with how much credit they give their heads of the church. The Bible is there so you don't have to have somebody interpret everything for you.. assuming that's what you meant when you posted that. A teacher is absolutely fine, but a "bridge" between you and God is quite different.
Quote from: rharpe"[priests] lead souls to God"...
No. God leads souls to God.
Quote from: rharpe on Mon 14/11/2005 22:24:01
What good is a priest if you can't talk through him, to God? Priests study between 6 to 10 years in a seminary about the faith, morals, and God's expectations. They learn to interpret the Bible and study hard to lead souls to God. With all their knowledge and experience they have, what better person could you possibly think of that could lead you in the right direction? (I'm speaking of a catholic priest, by the way... I don't know anything about pastors, rabbis, warlocks. witches, etc.)
Yeah, but Bush speaks to God on a regular basis (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1815665,00.html). He might even know God inside and out, probably even more than priests do. But knowing God doesn't automatically qualitfy you as being the best person to lead you in the right direction, as Bush's polls indicate. And since Yakspit was refering to listening to priests on such things as political matters (i.e. Yakspit: "A more religious-oriented example: If you vote based upon who your pastor or priest tells you to vote for, you're lost; a single molecule in a vast organism."), I think this is a valid point to bring this thread full circle.
Bush and all the priests in the world are only human. They are infallible as much as the next man. Priests can fuck up. Any spiritual leader who is human can fuck up. Take that fat fuck Jerry Falwell, for example, who tried to convince America that liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, pagans, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters made God so angry that he sent two planes into the WTC (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm).
He later apologised (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/).
Quote from: DGMacphee on Tue 15/11/2005 05:48:35
Bush and all the priests in the world are only human. They are infallible as much as the next man. Priests can fuck up. Any spiritual leader who is human can fuck up. Take that fat fuck Jerry Falwell, for example, who tried to convince America that liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, pagans, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters made God so angry that he sent two planes into the WTC (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm).
He later apologised (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/).
Falwell has a way with apologies - he actually restates that for which he is apologizing:
Quote from: Jerry FallwellI therefore believe that that [being the ACLU, abortionists, etc.] created an environment which possibly has caused God to lift the veil of protection which has allowed no one to attack America on our soil since 1812.
Jerry: Becky is a big fatty!
Becky: Waahhh!
Jerry: I'm sorry, Becky. Really, I sincerely apologize, lard-butt.
I like that he said God lifted the "veil of protection", like it's some kind of magic force field that diverts planes from buildings.
And remember folks, the force field is powered by the love of newborn babies and straight relationships. So get busy and start poppin' out those babies!
Quote from: TikiQuote from: rharpe"[priests] lead souls to God"...
No. God leads souls to God.
In the Catholic Church priests are a necessity! Bishops are a necessity! The Pope is a necessity! Without them, we can not get to heaven. They steer us from what is wrong and evil and lead us to God... (at least they are suppose to.)
But DGMacphee, you are right. Sometimes priests fall just like the average lay man and woman. But to stereotype all priests after one or two have fallen is wrong. Just like it's wrong for us to stereotype people of different color than ourselves, or cultures, etc. I totally agree that some priests have done the opposite... and have lead many souls to hell.
But Catholic priests are still a necessity... Christ Himself instituted the sacrament of Holy Orders so that men, (priests,) would have the power to forgive sins, (Penance,) consecrate the Blessed Sacrament, (Holy Eucharist,) administer Extreme Unction for the dying, and Marry a man and woman in Holy Matrimony. The only thing a priest is not to do, is perform Confirmation... this is done by a bishop if one is available. Only in extreme cases can a priest confirm someone. Priests also baptize as well. In extreme cases, a lay person can do this. One of the things most people do not talk about, that a priest can do under very extreme circumstances, with the bishops permission, is perform exorcisms. Even though it is not done alot... it is done.
Quote from: rharpe on Tue 15/11/2005 06:18:39
But DGMacphee, you are right. Sometimes priests fall just like the average lay man and woman. But to stereotype all priests after one or two have fallen is wrong. Just like it's wrong for us to stereotype people of different color than ourselves, or cultures, etc. I totally agree that some priests have done the opposite... and have lead many souls to hell.
Whoa, whoa dude. I'm not stereotyping priests. I said...
QuotePriests can fuck up. Any spiritual leader who is human can fuck up.
The "can" indicates all priests have the potential to fuck up, just as much as anyone. If anything, I'm stereotyping all of humanity in that everyone can fuck up.
EDIT: Except me. I'm fucking perfect! ;D
I wasn't aware that the Catholic doctrine said that you needed a priest to get to heaven (no sarcasm here, learning actually). The protestant doctrine (at least most) places the Pastor as an experienced man of God but with basically no capabilities beyond every Christian individual. If need be, a person could be isolated and perform all necessary sacraments, blessings and prayers, though would start spiritually without the nourishment of regular teaching from Christian elders.
What worries me about both protestant and Christian faiths is that a leader is leaned upon for so much and their word is taken as the word of God. Being so used to listening, it can often take some time for people to realize when their leader is one of the low percentile of screw-ups. Maybe God wants one person in the church to vote the opposite way in order to strengthen them, demonstrate his communication with them, or some other purpose beyond our reasoning. Yet, with so much reliance upon a fallible man for guideance, it could be difficult to hear.
I won't disparage a person's faith (not in seriousness anyway), so I'll stop with this: The Catholic church has had many of its ministers end up commiting what are seen as the worst sins even in the eyes of your average heathen. The church itself is doling out slap on the wrists, publicly declaring contempt while looking the other way. I freely admit that it's probably a very, very small percentage of the whole, but in an organization that's supposed to be the example of God to the world (just with any publicly-recognized organization) a small amount of dye colors a great deal of water.
Just to explain: protestant churches generally believe in the priesthood of all believers, except the Anglican church which I would say exists in a strange kind of limbo between protestant and catholic, except they don't believe in limbo ;)
So protestant churches believe you need a priest, its just that everyone is one, so they're not hard to find. That's the significance of the temple curtain being torn when Jesus was crucified : the division between God and man was removed and the need for seperate priests gone.
[/theology101]
Quote from: FrogMarch on Mon 14/11/2005 22:33:06
Quote from: Tiki on Sun 13/11/2005 04:21:49
Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.
This might help.
(http://www.allaboutreligion.org/muslim-god-and-christian-god-the-same-faq.htm)
I agree with the sheer logic of Tiki's post. I'd also like to add that according to Islam, (and I might be paraphrasing here) "anyone who believes in God, the last day, and does good, will have their reward with God, and have nothing to fear."
[/theology] ;D
How cute! Another thread about religion.
I personally believe that politics have nothing to do with God(s)! What has Bush got to do with all of this? I refuse to even consider it.
On the matter of priests (although I didn't know it was official), I have to agree about priests. I mean they are the professors that teach us the way to heaven. It makes sense.
PS. Greek Orthodox church and their priests suck big time. Corruption everywhere! (almost). IF I don't like religion (and I believe in God, somehow), it is because of the belief system in Greece and their priests, most of which are gay,rich-bitches,dogmatic full-time. OF course this is an excaguration but you get the pictrure. And I'm sure that everyone who has an idea for Greece will agree with me.
I agree with that, that's why I don't consider myself an Orthodox. However, I agree with most of the teachings of the church. And I don't think it's nice to accuse God for something people are doing. If you remember, Jesus was against the religious leaders of his age who were no much different than the ones today.
Sorry for sabotaging this thread and bringing religion into the mix. To me, separation between Church and State will never happen. I can't talk politics unless God is mentioned as well. It's a part of my upbringing, and it is a part of me. I have a subtle Catholic faith which I know very little about, (but would like to know more.)
I don't know very much about the Greek Orthodox. But there is one thing I know for sure... there is a lot of corruption, no matter where you go. And its not limited to any certain denominations either. Every church has a bit of corruption... just some more than others.
Oh and when the temple curtain was torn: This did NOT signify the removal of division between God and man... it signified the start of the New Testament. (The old ways of the Jews, their temple and the curtain was destroyed to signify Christ Himself changed the old ways to the new way... The New Testament.) The only thing that didn't change was the 10 commandments... which were written in stone directly by God. (Usually if it's written in stone, by God Himself, it doesn't change.) ;D
Quote from: rharpe on Tue 15/11/2005 18:03:12
Oh and when the temple curtain was torn: This did NOT signify the removal of division between God and man... it signified the start of the New Testament. (The old ways of the Jews, their temple and the curtain was destroyed to signify Christ Himself changed the old ways to the new way... The New Testament.) The only thing that didn't change was the 10 commandments... which were written in stone directly by God. (Usually if it's written in stone, by God Himself, it doesn't change.) ;D
That may be Catholic theology, but I love a good bit of Wesley:
http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh282.sht
Quote from: rharpe on Tue 15/11/2005 18:03:12I have a subtle Catholic faith
Say what now? (http://www.nedroid.com/images/notsubtle.JPG)
rharpe - If priests can forgive sins, and do all of those wonderful things.. I don't see where Jesus or the Holy Spirit come in any more. I don't mean to trample on the Catholic faith.. but popes, bishops, priests.. they are absolutely not a necessity for getting to heaven.
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Priests, bishops, etc all have a duty and should be respected. But they have no more authority in letting people to heaven than any other man.
I consider myself a christian, but belong to no denoomination, I find denominations, an instatustion built by the human need to put people in little wee boxes and say anyone outside of the box iis the devil incarnate, to be just that, human instatutions, I think God made us and loves and probebly crys every time he sees how fucked up we have made everything, but rejoices at the little bits of sub-creationand beuty we sometimes create. I will never claim to have the answers, I am probebly more fuckesd up then most, but this ramble is my Guess.
But that doesn't mean I think instatutions and rituals are unimportent. Heck No! rituals are also part of human nature and sshould be charished as such. to say we shoudn't doo somethiing beacause its irational is silly cuz, we humans ARE irrational.
keeo up the forum
lo_res_man
Organized religion is there to keep you as far away from God as possible. It's just a business. BTW what does all this have to do with the picture? lol
Quote from: Tiki
rharpe - If priests can forgive sins, and do all of those wonderful things.. I don't see where Jesus or the Holy Spirit come in any more. I don't mean to trample on the Catholic faith.. but popes, bishops, priests.. they are absolutely not a necessity for getting to heaven.
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Priests, bishops, etc all have a duty and should be respected. But they have no more authority in letting people to heaven than any other man.
Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to show us how His Heavenly Father wanted us to worship Him. The priests, bishops, and pope, play key roles in doing God's will. Jesus is with us in spirit but not physically here to guide us to His Father. Christ instituted Holy Orders within the Catholic Church so that man is given the power to forgive sins. Yes, it's a very powerful attribute to have. We do not have this power to forgive our sins...that would make no sense. For example: I kill someone...look up to the heavens and say, "Oh, I'm forgiven...because I can forgive myself." No, no, no! A priest can't even do this. He must go to confession and confess his sins to another priest. That's the way Christ made the sacrament.
Here is a link regarding the Catholic Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church)... and I'd be considered a "Traditionalist."
OK... so I'm not the subtle. ;)
Quote from: rharpe on Wed 16/11/2005 06:00:19
Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to show us how His Heavenly Father wanted us to worship Him.
1,2...8 Capital letters in a sentence.
Sorry had to mention that. Rharpe I think you really tried to do this!
[/joke]
I'm pretty sure that if I do something bad I will find a way myself to redeem and forgive myself. I'm not sure that I need guidance. And anyway there are shrinks that can help me if things are really bad.
I find that religion in the first place was created by the need of human beings to explain some things, and furthermore for the need of communities to have guidance.
An example: In Orthodox we worship the Easter very much. And 40 days before we can't eat meat, eggs, dairy products. Which is done because Christ did it. And afterwards when Jesus comes back from the dead we celebrate by eating as much dairy and animal produacts as we can. Well I think that there is another explanation for this. Easter takes place around mid-Spring. The time where the animals reproduce and give brith to their babys. If we eat a lot of animals around then, the floc will die. If we drink milk/eat cheese the babys will not have what to eat and again the flok will die. The same applies for the eggs. Well, after 40 days the floks and the animals have multiplied so much that if we don't eat the older animals and start drinking again milk/cheese/eggs the flok will starve.
The same applies for most "rules". There happens to be a practical reason for that. Now, I'm willing to believe that Christ was an amazingly clever Man/Son of God, but this is much of a coincidence for me to think that everything is done for religious reasons.
Religion is here to help us live a better life (hopefully). When religion happens to be outdated and you have so many children born because of the lack of counterbirth practice (condoms), well then there is where things go bad...
Priest are here to help us. They are here to teach us. And some of them are great! Saints, or whatever else one can call them. But I believe that one can also be selftaught! Difficult but not imposible.
It's interesting to see some of your posts... and how you see religion. To me religion is not just a thing that is off to the side that you think about once in a great while. It is something that apply to my daily life. Religion, (in my definition,) is the communication between God and man. As a Catholic, I get up in the morning and offer my day to God... (Throughout the day I try to think about God... but this is very difficult...) when I get home from work I say my daily Rossary with the whole family... before my daughter goes to sleep, I kneel down with her and my wife and we say our night prayers together. This is the bare minimum a Catholic should do. I should go to Mass in the morning, but I have a lazy streak in me. I do go to Mass every Sunday though. (Again, the bare minimum.) During days of fast and abstinance, I eat very tiny small snacks and avoid any meat products. Fridays, I eat fish, eggs, or bread, instead of meat. I try to go to confession at least once every 3 weeks... but I'm not always successful.
You all may feel my life is so hard... but it isn't. This is the bare minimum a Catholic should do...(yes, I know... I should do more than that...working on it.)
You know what's going to be awesome? When your daughter, 15 or 16, around that time, brings a godless heathen with long hair and a motorhead patch on the back of his leather jacket and wearing a Godflesh t-shirt, home. She introduces him as her boyfriend, coupled with a few well placed 'I like him because he reminds me of you, dad' whenever you try to say something.
"What's up, god-man? Been to church lately?"
Quote from: Helm
You know what's going to be awesome? When your daughter, 15 or 16, around that time, brings a godless heathen with long hair and a motorhead patch on the back of his leather jacket and wearing a Godflesh t-shirt, home. She introduces him as her boyfriend, coupled with a few well placed 'I like him because he reminds me of you, dad' whenever you try to say something.
"What's up, god-man? Been to church lately?"
Oh yes, I'm looking forward to that! :)
Quote from: rharpe on Wed 16/11/2005 06:00:19
Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to show us how His Heavenly Father wanted us to worship Him. The priests, bishops, and pope, play key roles in doing God's will. Jesus is with us in spirit but not physically here to guide us to His Father. Christ instituted Holy Orders within the Catholic Church so that man is given the power to forgive sins. Yes, it's a very powerful attribute to have. We do not have this power to forgive our sins...that would make no sense. For example: I kill someone...look up to the heavens and say, "Oh, I'm forgiven...because I can forgive myself." No, no, no! A priest can't even do this. He must go to confession and confess his sins to another priest. That's the way Christ made the sacrament.
Here is a link regarding the Catholic Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church)... and I'd be considered a "Traditionalist."
Just to clarify, let me state that I already know more than enough about the Catholic faith - you must have misunderstood me.
To be frank, I don't believe you when you say Jesus calls on priests to forgive other men. A sinner
can not forgive another man, because priests are just as sinful as the ones they are supposedly cleansing.
"all have fallen short of the glory of God" ...
We're forgiven whether we accept it or not.. it is the acceptance of the forgiveness that saves us.
if priests can't save themselves how can they save others? It's like, can you save a drowning person when you are yourself drowning?
Also,
Quote"Jesus is with us in spirit but not physically here to guide us to His Father."
Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit as a separate entity of the Trinity?
Ephesians 1:13-14, "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."
Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
Salvation is a result of no one's works but Christ's... I don't care how big their hat is.
I suggest you read the parable about how are you to get a speck out of your neighbor's eye when you have a plank in your own eye.
Quote
GOD TOLD ME TO INVADE IRAQ
I loved that one.
Quote from: Tikilet me state that I already know more than enough about the Catholic faith
Your comments regarding the Catholic faith come out more like protestantism. Sorry, that's the way I read into your replies.
Quote from: Tiki
if priests can't save themselves how can they save others? It's like, can you save a drowning person when you are yourself drowning?
Priests are given special graces and powers by the Catholic Church that Christ founded. (http://www.catholic.com/library/Confession.asp)
Quote from: TikiDo you not believe in the Holy Spirit as a separate entity of the Trinity?
Yes, I believe in the Holy Trinity, (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.)
Quote from: TikiI suggest you read the parable about how are you to get a speck out of your neighbor's eye when you have a plank in your own eye.
I will...
Quote from: m0ds on Wed 16/11/2005 22:30:38
Quote
GOD TOLD ME TO INVADE IRAQ
I loved that one.
This is a well known fact, mOds, didn't you know?
Quote from: Nikolas on Fri 18/11/2005 07:04:17
Quote from: m0ds on Wed 16/11/2005 22:30:38
Quote
GOD TOLD ME TO INVADE IRAQ
I loved that one.
This is a well known fact, mOds, didn't you know?
God told me to... x
God wants me to... x
God wants... x
God hates... x
These are the kind of sentences that tick me off. I've noticed people abusing it so bad that I barely managed to keep myself from being too judgmental on them. Especially when people read too much into things and take everything as a sign
A silly example: lets say that I want to go out but on my way out of the door I drop something on my shirt that leaves a stain. Therefore this is God's way to tell me that I shouldn't go out and I must stay home.
It might sound bizarre but I've faced people who think like this too many times so far. I mean come on, it's not what God wants you to do, it's what you
think God wants you to do. I consider people who put themselves in a position where they are supposed to know what God wants them to do as very proudful (example: Jack Thompson and one of my ex girlfriends).
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Fri 18/11/2005 13:28:41
A silly example: lets say that I want to go out but on my way out of the door I drop something on my shirt that leaves a stain. Therefore this is God's way to tell me that I shouldn't go out and I must stay home.
... or you could just be really clumsy.
But if you still think it was God's intention to force you to spill something over your shirt, send him a dry cleaning bill and see if he pays up.
exactly :P
God is a tight bastard with his money.
Once we degenerate all the way down to Bush=Gollum=lol level then I'll have something to link (http://www.saunalambusplaza.net/stuff/gollum.jpg).
It should have him holding the world or a glass of petrol, saying "my precious!"
and we should also change the title of this thread to "ITT, george w bush the president of the united states looks like overused pop culture references".
hey bush looks like lex luthor!! watch out superman!!!
P.S. In that Gollum pic, Bush looks like he's ready to give Karl Rove a blow-job.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sun 20/11/2005 02:23:14
P.S. In that Gollum pic, Bush looks like he's ready to give Karl Rove a blow-job.
Now THIS is tasteless!
:P
I would imagine it would at least have a gamey taste.
It brings new meaning to the phrase "Bush sucks!"
BOOM CHING!