"Prisoners of YouTube"

[Raggit]

http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2007/02/prisonersofyoutube.php

It's almost impossible that you haven't seen at least ONE or two of the videos listed throughout this thought-provoking article.

I read this at the beginning of this year, and recently found it again, and re-read it.  It's chilling to stop and think about how closely monitored we are, and how hundreds of millions of people across the globe could relive one of our embarrassing moments over and over again, at all hours of the day and thousands of new hits every minute.  It could be captured on a security camera or be shot on a cellphone.  It could happen on the street, on a bus, or in your own living room. 

Cameras are everywhere, and millions of people are waiting for the next big viral video to watch, forward, spoof, reference, and comment on.  Think about it:  You could be the next big fucking dumbass faggot loser to get caught on camera getting pwned.

Creepy stuff.  This is why I don't surf the "funny" videos anymore.  I eventually decided that this mass-voyeurism wasn't for me.  After all, how would I like it if somebody caught me on tape during an off day?  Granted, the people who intentionally got up before crowds and made fools of themselves aren't deserving of a whole lot of sympathy.  But the people who were minding their own business but were at the wrong place at the wrong time don't deserve the global humilation that they've gotten.

So that's my take.  What do you think?

[m0ds]

I was born in 1984, so I am forced to accept it, I think

I'd be quite proud of my famous misfortune video. Especially if it featured a voice over by Sheriff John Bunell

At the end of the day these clips are so anonymous I really don't think it matters. I would never be able to identify anyone in any of these "funny" videos, unless they were particularly midget or had two heads or something. I think they get off quite lightly still. And I'm sure many of them now bask in their glory of seeing themselves on trash tv shows, and youtube

CCTV is creepy, hell yes, but CCTV misfortune is just misfortune, and likely most people will get a laugh from it.

[Evil]

Interesting read. I'm glad you posted it because one of my unfinished term papers is about this topic. Thanks!

[shbaz]

Youtube, for all its faults and all of the absolutely pointless mind-numbing crap that is on there, brings the power of the press to the individual for the first time EVER.  Sure, anyone can make a zine, and has been able to since the 80's or so when printers and computers were cheap enough.

But now, if you screw up and it's on video, it doesn't matter who you are, you're going down.

Particularly police brutality/ridiculousness in the US comes to mind, here's one I saw today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

Normally what happens is the guys buddies in the PD don't give him any crap, the city doesn't fire or harass cops for stuff they do unless there's overwhelming bad publicity, and the mass media doesn't do anything unless it's a hate crime or something absolutely outrageous.  So things like this get let go, because lets face it, the kid was skateboarding and he tried to run so the cop had to apprehend him right?  But when you see a 13 year old kid getting tackled and choked, and you realize that he was JUST SKATEBOARDING...  (the cop makes no mention of anything other than, you were skateboarding, I tried to stop you, you ran)

[EldKatt]

So. What's the name of the famous Star Wars kid? I have no idea, and chances are neither do you. Would I recognize the Star Wars kid if I saw him? No, I would not.

Honestly, I think much of this is pretty harmless. And the advantages pointed out by shbaz are worth it, in my book.

[Raggit]

Eldkatt, the Star Wars kid's name is Ghyslain Raza, he is a French Canadian and was fourteen at the time the video was made.

My point is not so much about whether you or I can recognize him on the street, but the way the release of the video affected his life and relationship to his family and friends.  In some cases, people who KNOW people who were humilated on YouTube get harrassed about it.  Ghyslain Raza may have to change his name if he ever wants to move up in the world, because people WILL find out who he is.

It's the same with the so-called "Afroninja."  He's a Hollywood stuntman whose career was, more or less, destroyed by an audition tape of him failing a backflip and stumbling off frame when he tries to get back up.  I downloaded this clip to my personal collection when it first surfaced, and only recently learned that he WAS a professional and had doubled for Chris Tucker in the first two Rush Hour movies.  But after the YouTube release, directors and producers began to recognize him as "Afroninja" and distanced their movies from him.

That said, I agree th YouTube IS a powerful force for free speech; perhaps the ONLY avenue left to truly speak your mind.  It's unfortunate that the technology, as usual, is overrun by dweebs and morons more interested in watching people be humilated than speaking out on important issues.

[Darth Mandarb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

I can't speak for anybody else ... but I was rootin' for the cop.  If these little kid's attitudes, when the camera showed up, are any indication the first kid on the ground probably did something stupid and then the rest jumped in with their 13 year old "wisdom" and thinking they know what's right.  The camera doesn't show the original take-down or the events leading to it.

If there is a city ordinance that you're not allowed to ride your skateboards in town, a "national ride your skateboard day" doesn't make it okay.  They broke the law, period.

Granted the cop did get a bit physical, however, those 5 or 6 kids could easily over-power him (and kill him).  The cop's only choice was a brutal show of force to convince them not to resist.  Which they, idiotically, still did.  I say they got what they had coming to them.

[Buckethead]

I've read through the article and watched all the videos that came with it. I must say I've never seen any of the videos before. And it's very clear to me why. I don't find them enjoyable in anyway. I really don't see how anyone with a bit of brain can find those funny. I also don't understand that the person who wrote the articles included the clips. Ok then you can see what it's all about but cmon. Isn't like 90 million viewers not enough? I think it would have been better if the videos weren't included. Now more people will see them.

[EldKatt]

Eldkatt, the Star Wars kid's name is Ghyslain Raza, he is a French Canadian and was fourteen at the time the video was made.

My point is not so much about whether you or I can recognize him on the street, but the way the release of the video affected his life and relationship to his family and friends.  In some cases, people who KNOW people who were humilated on YouTube get harrassed about it.  Ghyslain Raza may have to change his name if he ever wants to move up in the world, because people WILL find out who he is.

I'm very much aware that his name is known to those who wish to find it out, my point is more that nobody really cares. Nobody that matters. And call me a cynic, but I don't think Raza was the alpha male of his school even before the video. I don't think the YouTube phenomenon alone is responsible for whatever might have made his life suck. And call me overly optimistic, but I don't really think the video will prevent him from moving up in the world. This is just schoolyard bullying taken to a new venue, and in real life, the geeks tend to end up as the bosses of the jocks.


Mark Hicks (IMDB link), the Afroninja, is a good example of the possible effects, though. To me, though, it's mostly an example of what can happen when the masses misinterpret something fairly ordinary in a field that they haven't a clue about. Kind of like a more sinister version of the phenomenon when Ig Nobel Prize laureates are first approached and respond with genuine surprise: "What? My research is funny?"

The thing is that even the most seasoned professionals make mistakes, really stupid ones, now and then. The general public is blissfully aware of this for the most time, and when they see a little glimpse of the truth, they occasionally jump to conclusions. In this particular case, the little-known continuation of the story is that Mark got up from his failed backflip, did another one, and got the part he was auditioning for. And if some idiot (I'll get to why I use this word) hadn't leaked the video, his reputation wouldn't have been marred in the slightest, because everyone involved knows that these things happen.

What above all shocks me about this instance is that it's a fundamental violation of the ethics that I feel are involved in this business: What happens at an audition stays there. The jury will discuss it amongst themselves afterwards, but when they're done, that's it, and they do not talk about it with anyone. I think this is a principle of some gravity, and whoever put this on YouTube completely raped it. I really think this is the crux of the matter for me. The Afroninja video shocks me a great deal more than any number of Star Wars kids, because it's a violation of audition ethics.

[Oliwerko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

I can't speak for anybody else ... but I was rootin' for the cop.  If these little kid's attitudes, when the camera showed up, are any indication the first kid on the ground probably did something stupid and then the rest jumped in with their 13 year old "wisdom" and thinking they know what's right.  The camera doesn't show the original take-down or the events leading to it.

If there is a city ordinance that you're not allowed to ride your skateboards in town, a "national ride your skateboard day" doesn't make it okay.  They broke the law, period.

Granted the cop did get a bit physical, however, those 5 or 6 kids could easily over-power him (and kill him).  The cop's only choice was a brutal show of force to convince them not to resist.  Which they, idiotically, still did.  I say they got what they had coming to them.

Exactly.
This reminds me of a big scandal in USA (do not know exactly), when there were 6 officers brutally beating a black man. It was a big scandal, because on the news, they did not show the scene that happened before, when the man was starting a fight again and again and again. They just HAD TO beat him so brutally, because he did not stop. But on the news, they just said "6 police officers brutally atack a black man", showed only a bit of that camera take and thus made the 6 officers btutal racists. This is the so called "power of mass media".

[Da_Elf]

how could you forget a name like rodney king.

[ildu]

I find it pretty weird that people get obsessed about people being obsessed with videos like these. I personally don't see much harm in them as long as they don't jeopardize someone's career or personal life. I'm not really embarrassed about anything I do, so I don't think I'd really mind if a video of me surfaced. And I don't really surround myself with people who'd want to hurt me, anyhow, so there's really no worry of being hounded by people I know. On the other hand, labeling is hardly ever a good thing, and if you get labeled by something you've done (negative or positive) it can have a great impact on your self-worth, saying I'm only important due to this single thing. Also, if the case is that you get constantly hounded by strangers, than that's not very good at all. However, I think it largely comes down to self-confidence and how well you can laugh at yourself, to the degree that it doesn't wreck your life or future.

[off-topic alt="personal v. social responsibility" src=myhead value=none (unless interested )]

The topic is clearly quite sensationalist, and it bears some resemblance to the controversy surrounding Dateline's To Catch A Predator show. Should we retain the personal privacy of (alleged) pedophiles? Are there degrees in the severity of child abuse, and the 'right of scorn' attached to it? Where exactly does the show fare on a scale between societal responsibility and downright perverse opportunistic exploitation? I'm mainly just referring to this case to emphasize that most issues are not as black and white as some may think.

I'd like to remind everyone that we don't really have any innate laws as humans, apart from perhaps empathy (and incest, if you wanna keep thinking positively ). The way we act and think are a result of the community or society that surrounds us, as are laws. So I would say: judge by society, not by laws. Again, there are degrees to everything, which brings me to another point:

Granted the cop did get a bit physical, however, those 5 or 6 kids could easily over-power him (and kill him).  The cop's only choice was a brutal show of force to convince them not to resist.  Which they, idiotically, still did.  I say they got what they had coming to them.

This to me feels like a very american way of thinking. Yes, they broke the law and they should face consequences for what they did. But for a person with the authority and responsibility for maintaining peace, to choke, tackle and cuff 13-year-olds, goes a bit far with me. To give off a presence of authority is of course important, but do you really have to man-handle children to communicate the severity of their actions. Maybe it's different in a country where it's emphasized that children can also be dangerous, but it's a pretty irresponsible statement to suggest that those 5-6 kids could have killed the cop. Yes, it's probably possible, but is it really, i mean really really? It's also entirely possible that the innocent granny walking by is on her way to do some old-fashioned serial-killing. It may also be possible that Iran might be able to get the knowledge to develop nuclear energy into weapons and essentially blow up the whole world. But then again, so could any country if you stretch it far enough, and so could a room full of monkeys with typewriters if you give them enough time.

So, it's again about degrees. How should one assess the threat level of a loiterer (also illegal in many areas) against that of an armed robber? I think the cop snapped and just took it way too far. At least in Finland this would be considered over-use and/or abuse of power, and it would be a disaster for the values that we have in our society. But then again, we don't consider our children dangerous by default (which shouldn't change due to a single assbag - the one who shall not be named), we don't put them in jail with adult charges and we don't kill people in the name of justice.

Exactly.
This reminds me of a big scandal in USA (do not know exactly), when there were 6 officers brutally beating a black man. It was a big scandal, because on the news, they did not show the scene that happened before, when the man was starting a fight again and again and again. They just HAD TO beat him so brutally, because he did not stop. But on the news, they just said "6 police officers brutally atack a black man", showed only a bit of that camera take and thus made the 6 officers btutal racists. This is the so called "power of mass media".

There was a case a little similar to this in Finland recently. These two security guards got caught on tape beating this innocent man to a pulp. Everyone was shocked and disgusted. Later it turned out that the man who was being beated had been fighting and had, among other things, kicked another woman in the face. This lessened the shock a tad, but didn't change the fact that he was treated unjustly by the security guards. Rightly so, they were fired and will probably face some abuse charges. So, unless that guy was the black superman, I'm guessing 6 cops would be way enough to overpower and detain one person, without the batons ever leaving their holsters. I wouldn't jump to calling them racist, but I think they definately got a little too carried away.

[/off-topic]

Sorry to go so off-topic, but I couldn't stop .

[Nikolas]

ildu:

13-14 year olds over here in the uk, smoke various stuff and generally can be rather dangerous at times. If they were 10, yes, but 13-14 is rather different.

And this video is a bit hazzy at times, as Darth says, it's not really from the begining so we have no idea what really happened. It does appear really ugly for the cop, that's a fact for me, but not the truth in what really happened before the video.

Youtube is nice. Will read the article later on. [/off topic again]

[EldKatt]

This reminds me of a big scandal in USA (do not know exactly), when there were 6 officers brutally beating a black man. It was a big scandal, because on the news, they did not show the scene that happened before, when the man was starting a fight again and again and again. They just HAD TO beat him so brutally, because he did not stop.

Don't they have handcuffs and stuff for this purpose? Just curious. I'm having trouble following the logic of any police officer having to beat anyone up. Unless it's a fight to the death or something.

[ildu]

13-14 year olds over here in the uk, smoke various stuff and generally can be rather dangerous at times. If they were 10, yes, but 13-14 is rather different.

And this video is a bit hazzy at times, as Darth says, it's not really from the begining so we have no idea what really happened. It does appear really ugly for the cop, that's a fact for me, but not the truth in what really happened before the video.

Yah, I understand. We don't really know what happened at all, so a statement like "the kids had it coming" is exactly the same as "the cop went too far". My assessment, though, is to believe the latter, simply because to me it seems more probable and the only piece of evidence that we have (be it biased or not) suggests so. And for kids in general, that's completely dependent on the area and surroundings. If I lived in the UK, I'd be scared of chavs too .

[Darth Mandarb]

But they weren't just loitering.  They were riding their skateboards in direct violation of city ordinance.  Just because it's "ride your skateboard day" doesn't mean that law just goes away.  I'd be willing to bet you that these kids had been told by that cop several times to stop.  These little punks, thinking they know best, decided not to.  The cop steps up, they get loud, so he takes one of them down.  Then they all start yelling at him from all angles and there he is by himself outnumbered more than 5 to 1.  In my opinion, the cop actually kept his head pretty damn well.  He answered every question they asked him and even said, "calm down or I'm gonna spray you" which he never resorted to doing.

He told the girl, who was clearly sticking her nose in the way when he was trying to manage the cuffed kid, that she was under arrest for interfering and obstructing and she ran.  He should have tazed her punk-ass.  She's lucky all she got was a little head-lock action.  What?  He should have been "gentle" just 'cause she's a girl?  A girl can pull a knife just as easily as a guy.  You do not get in the way when a cop is arresting somebody ... no matter how much you think he's wrong, you do not interfere.  She is a moron.

I think there's a bigger issue at play here than "police brutality" ... I think it's a larger issue of kids/people thinking they don't have to worry about consequences for not obeying the law.  I download mp3, if the cops come knocking one day I certainly am not going to resist arrest (even though I would vehemently disagree with it).

Meh ... I dunno.  I know a lot of cops and I hear a lot of stories about the shit they have to put up with.  In my opinion, if you "step up" to a law officer the way these kids did ... they got what they had comin' to 'em, and maybe not even what they deserved.

[EldKatt]

I thought we had reached the conclusion that we simply don't know exactly what happened, but I seem to have been mistaken.

[Buckethead]

I thought we had reached the conclusion that we simply don't know exactly what happened, but I seem to have been mistaken.

Darth just has to be right. He's not satishfied with a tie 

[shbaz]

Plus the general american opinion is that the cop is always right and that cops put up with way too much crap already.

So beat up the 13 year olds, choking is better than simple detaining if they give you any crap because you have to show them you're the boss.

[Darth Mandarb]

Plus the general american opinion is that the cop is always right and that cops put up with way too much crap already.

So beat up the 13 year olds, choking is better than simple detaining if they give you any crap because you have to show them you're the boss.

No you're absolutely right ... being a smartass know-it-all 13 year old should give you the right to break the law.

And cops should let you roll all over them 'cause, as we all know, 13 year olds know a lot more than the cops as to who should do what with the law.

My bad.