I don't think anyone was really expecting anything amazing but what is amazing is just how bloody awful it is.
A moment of silence if you please
Red Dwarf
1988-2009
I didn't think it was that bad. Just a little dry..
I haven't seen it. I've seen all the rest of the series.. If the episode has Rimmer it can't be bad. I was put off by Tikka to Ride for example, but then some fun stuff came in.
I'm withholding judgement until I've seen the whole thing. As my name implies, this was an important thing for me.
The last two series of Red Dwarf were pretty bad though.
Quote from: AGA on Sat 11/04/2009 23:19:33
The last two series of Red Dwarf were pretty bad though.
You can't say that..I mean you can. But Rimmer has some really cool lines..
Ok. Now seeing 2 out of 3 of the new episodes I am pretty disapointed. It seems more like it is aimed at the tv show makers than the actual fans. I hope the 3rd episode has something spectatular, but I think I can guess the ending.
I'm surprised how pragmatic you're all being. It was rubbish. R-U-B-ish (in my opinion)
It was... meh. Sort of funny. Not nearly as good as the old series. It also doesn't continue from the last series very well, does it? Watch the last episode of season 8, the last 'official' episode, 'Only the good...'. The first part of back to earth bears no relation to the end. I was quite dissapointed. I REALLY didn't like the whole 4th wall thing either. Tonight, the supposed last better end on an epic. I'm not holding out much hope though. It doesn't seem they can fit the end Dwarf deserves in one last 30 min episode, does it?
Anyone else dissapointed at how much of it is CGI? I miss the original scutter models. :'(
The second episode was a lot better than the first. Although it was one giant blade runner reference.
Quote from: Hotspot on Sun 12/04/2009 19:59:57
Although it was one giant blade runner reference.
That's true. I've never seen the film and I saw that.
Personally i would have rather seen the film (you know the one that never got made 8yrs ago?). When I saw the shite that spurted out of the magical box on friday I must say I was actually heartbroken. Saturday's episode was a little better, they would be better off releasing it as a 2hr special or whatever it is rather than cutting it down into 3 parts of an episode. I mean lets face it, its just one below average episode dragged out over a weekend. And Dave??? WTF!! Its like the beeb admitting its a load of cack.
I would however like to see a new series (a proper one, and with the old skool backdrops) if Doug Naylor is actually up to it, and Craig Charles stops sticking straws up his nose.
It's not the backdrops that are the problem. It's the dreadful writing and the atrocious acting that is the problem. It's an insult to the legions of fans who have been looking forward to this for so long.
I think their downfall was that they didn't show anybody it first, because they wanted to try and keep the story a secret (hence the lack of a laughter track)... but by keeping it a secret they haven't had anybody to tell them it's shit and warn them not to broadcast it... coz that's exactly what I would have done if I'd seen it earlier.
Oh well 15 mins to go and one last chance for them to redeem themselves.
I agree its the writing, but its also not the same with the new special fx etc. You can't change the ship, i preferred it when it looked crap and had that 80s-90s feel to it. Kind of how dr.who isnt as great as it used to be, although at least it has a semi decent script even if it does get repetitive at times.
The story has definitely gone too far fetched this time. Ah well i cant be bothered to watch it now, i'll watch it later.
I recall myself laughing once so far, in the second part, it was that insignificant i can't remember why. The problem is its not a sitcom anymore its too drama ( and a bad one at that).
I want that carbug though.
I think you're taking this one-off 3 parter a bit too personally, Stupot. Granted, after watching the first two parts I was a bit confused over the actual point to the revival: Is it to pander to the fans' needs to see just a bit more of the cast, a marketing ploy to keep Red Dwarf fresh for a possible reboot, or is it just a bit of fun to show the cast and crew are lighthearted about the whole thing? That's really what's confusing to me about it, the mixed signals that make the show seem like just a bit of silliness but then the production values that make me think they're actually trying to market a new series. Either way, the show didn't really bother me (it didn't make me laugh) and seems to me like they're just having a bit of fun. Based on a lot of the reviews and feedback I've read, the fanbase seems pretty well split over whether it's good or just shit, and I don't think it's either poor or great.
I'm glad I reserved judgement, I'm intensely happy with the ending of that.
Thank god for that. I think i will restrain from reading this topic until i've caught up with watching this episode.
I'm intensely unhappy.
Spoiler
After yesterdays episode I said to my friend that I thought the 'It was all just a TV show' thing was almost as much of a cop-out as the 'it was all just a dream' device that all would-be writers are advised to avoid like the plague. Little did I know that this is exactly what they had in store for us. I just can't quite believe how terrible it was.
Severely disappointed. However, one silver lining is that they have left it open for more, and don't get me wrong, I would love them to make more. But they seriously need to sort things out and remember that Red Dwarf is a comedy first and foremost. This seems to have been the main thing they have forgotten in this 3-parter (which I am probably taking a little too seriously ProgZ, but I just feel slightly let down as a fan who grew up watching this show since before I was 10)
Um...wasn't Red Dwarf always crap?
It's popularity in the US, and in general, continues to astound me.
I enjoyed the ending, however, i stand by my statement that this should never have been split into three parts. I'd also be happy to see a new series as long as it keeps the old format.
Quote from: LimpingFish on Sun 12/04/2009 22:11:32
Um...wasn't Red Dwarf always crap?
I'm sorry limpingfish I can no longer respect you as a person. >:(
Just watched part 3.
Part 3 was... bad. It didn't tie up any loose ends at all! (Although it does leave opportunity for a new series)
I think that was the idea, as Doug Naylor has stated he would like to do a series 10 if the special goes down well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dwarf#The_Future
Quote from: DanielH on Sun 12/04/2009 22:38:21
I'm sorry limpingfish I can no longer respect you as a person. >:(
I honestly never saw the funny side of it. The jokes always seemed telegraphed and forced. Kryten was marginally funny, but the rest? Cat made me want to knee myself in the nuts. The less said about talent-vacuum Craig Charles, the better. And Rimmer had one joke, stretched over eight series.
It should have stayed dead.
Millions of fans worldwide disagree with you.
I hope you get sucked out of an airlock :P
Thanks for reminding me that they've been released. Didn't have the time to watch them on the telly, so I'm downloading 'em now.
Also, I must be the most forgiving Red Dwarf fan ever, because while I thought the last 2 seasons were sub-par for Red Dwarf standards, I still thought (and think) that they were utterly brilliant.
So I'm sure the most negative I can feel about series 9 is "huh. meh."
I'll be fine :D
I agree with LimpingFish at least partially, though I've always found Rimmer's character (and Chris Barrie in general) to be funny in a sad, glad-I'm-not-him kind of way. I also think Craig Charles is a bit of a cardboard cut-out, and that much of the chemistry between his and Rimmer's characters seemed forced due to the lack of Charles' acting chops (he had no real experience prior to Dwarf). I don't really think it's his fault, and he definitely got better as the show went on, but for me Rimmer and Kryten were the show with Cat and Lister as characters that would not fundamentally harm the series if they simply disappeared. After seeing all three parts I think there were some obvious clues about the direction of the episode, and I don't really see where the ending left a cliffhanger or anything that some people are talking about, though it did seem to work as a good point to jumpstart the series from.
I enjoyed it. I found it funny.
Spoiler
The ending was a cop out, but I think I understand why they did that. How else could you continue a series when the characters think they're fictional? And the reason for going to our reality was because it's funny. And I did find it funny.
I wonder if the canned laughter had an unexpected effect on you guys?
Was it worth waiting ten years for? No..
Did I love it and will I buy the DVD when it comes out in June? Yes! :P
I had no idea it was still on. I used to watch it here in the states when I was a kid. I think we only got the first few series on television here. I used to LOVE IT. It would be on public television with Dr. Who, and I used to stay up late to watch it. The last season we got here was I think the one when Kreiton (sp?) came on-board. I remember the one about Toaster Heaven as being one of the last episodes we got.
Sorry to hear they crapped on it :(
-Bill
They didn't! These people just expect godlike results because they are elitist! :P
If a new Monkey Island came out, they'd call it shit becuase it doesn't meet their impossible expectations!
I think I just pissed a lot of people off just then. Oops.
Matt, as I said in my very first post I was not expecting god-like results. I was sort of expecting it to be kind of crap since I first heard that they would be going to coronation street to meet Craig Charles.
What I DID expect was comedy. Because that is what RD is supposed to be and that is why I always watched it. But I can sincerely say I only laughed out loud ONCE during all three episodes (Kryten's 'innocent whistling mode') and while their were 5 or 6 other moments that might have raised a smile, you surely have to admit, no matter how forgiving you are trying to be, that it just wasn't that funny.
Maybe you're right. Maybe if they had put a laughter track over it we might have been conned into thinking it was funny. Maybe if we went back and rewatched the original series without the laughter we might reaslise that it was never that funny to begin with.
Nope, the bit when Kryten spots the dvd, and picks up the Red Dwarf dvd and reads it, I was laughing my guts off. :P
I like episode One:
Katerina: I am now superior officer, not Rimmer, who is...bit crap.
Rimmer: What!?
Kryten: It's confirmed sir, (points at Psy-Scan, which reads 'Bit Crap')
I just watched the episodes. In short...
ep 1: Brilliant. I laughed many times. The back-and-forth dialog between lister and rimmer at the start was every bit as good as the RD of old. Only downside? No Holly.
ep 2: As soon as it began and I saw where it was going, I groaned and it just went downhill from there. I only laughed once (when Rimmer pushes Katerina into the street). The fourth wall jokes were the worst form of cop out, and weren't even clever ones at that.
ep 3: Not much better, although the ending did redeem itself. A bit overdramatic, but I found it a tad moving nonetheless.
I thought it was clever that they pulled a "Larry 4" on the show - skipping a few seasons in order to get out of the hole they wrote themselves into at the end of season 8. I do wonder how they got hologram Rimmer back, though.
Anyway, not bad. Not great. It was nice to see the characters again, even if they aren't what they were.
I'm Pretty sure that this is not the end of Red Dwarf ... To much left undone ...
Too many reused jokes and lag of continuity with the last season made it kind of "meh" to me.
I also didn't care for the meta-humour with them being fictional (again).
Quote from: ProgZmax on Mon 13/04/2009 05:26:30
...though I've always found Rimmer's character (and Chris Barrie in general) to be funny in a sad, glad-I'm-not-him kind of way.
Chris Barrie is a good comedic actor, but I always just felt that, beyond Rimmer's anal-retentiveness and the fact that he's the Felix Ungar to Lister's Oscar Madison, his character really hasn't got a lot to it. The all-Rimmer planet, for instance, and the Ace Rimmer storyline (along with the stories that dealt with Rimmer's psyche) seemed like an attempt to draw something else from such a one-note character because all the anal/prissy jokes had been repeated ad nauseum. His "Hard-Light" upgrade added scope for some physical gags too, I suppose.
Cat, on the other hand, has always been by far the weakest character. His schtick get's old almost as soon as he opens his mouth. Holly, male of female, doesn't fare much better.
Kryten is the best character, simply because Robert Llewellyn's delivery is so funny, and he seemed to give the character an edge that most of the cast lacked. The show definitely began to improve when he joined the regular cast, but the first three series are pretty weak overall.
I guess I'm not the best person to offer an opinion on the latest episodes, seeing as I never took to the regular series myself. But even trying to ignore that, these new episodes seemed superfluous. The Coronation Street sequence of part 3 and Charles's playing himself was especially embarrassing. Same goes for the fawning fan service.
Maybe Rob Grant was the talented one.
I loved it. It was as crappy as Red Dwarf always was - so crappy as to become brilliant again.
I watched the first two eps by myself, then watched those again and the third as well with friends. We all enjoyed it, so I don't get what the fuss is about.
It was, to me, more of the good stuff, characters I grew to love over years and years of mishaps. I regret nothying ;D
I actually liked the first part a lot, after that... well...
It's likely Doug Naylor had the idea for a while but unfortunately The League of Gentlemen beat him to executing it and did it a hell of a lot better. It seems ironic that something that something so transparently intended as a tribute to the fans ended up as more self-indulgent than anything the show's ever done...
That said, not the worst episodes. Blade Runner references are a pretty safe bet.
EDIT: Oh, and I TOTALLY missed the studio audience. If they do another series they need to get that back.
I don't really get the whole 'it would be better with a studio audience' argument. If you need canned laughter to tell you something is funny then it's not, simple as that.
Sorry progzmax i prefer the canned laughter,it doesnt make it funnier but makes it more lighthearted. You try watching virtually all the comedians out there without the laughter of the audience and i guarantee you wont be happy. To be honest half of them are painful to watch regardless. Besides its the whole ethos of Red Dwarf cheap laughs for a cheap show. Which brings me back on to the topic of using the old sets again....
Comedy performance that's playing to an audience and comedy performance that's playing to a camera has a totally different tone, which alone I feel validates it's existence. The new Red dwarfs, especially the first one which was a lot less cinematic, felt like it needed an audience reaction to justify the kind of broad acting the cast were doing.
Of course they COULD have changed their acting style but they're old men, Progz. They're set in their ways.
People always prefer to laugh in a group. Laughter is very much a social thing, and is often infectious. So it makes sense that any normal human would laugh more at a show when it has a laughter track. Infact it's the very reason canned laughter was invented. It relaxes the viewer and lets them know that they're not laughing alone.
That said, I don't think even canned laughter could have changed my mind about this topic.
As an insanely committed Red Dwarf fan, I didn't watch this. The last two serieses(sp?) were so poor that I had no enthusiasm. I saw about 15 minutes of the first, and I didn't hate it, but it didn't feel right all the same.
To be honest the lack of a laughter track was the best point, in my mind. The laugh track on series 7 and 8 made it feel like you were watching with a crowd of tasteless morons.
I enjoyed it :) But only cos I watched it back to back. If i hadn't I'd probably have hated it. Too few jokes in each "episode". But on the whole great stuff!!
Spoiler
I'm glad they just walked away like nothing happened in the end. Leaves it open to future episodes, which won't be a problem! :D
I'm not a fan of the later series, when all the crew was back or whatever - I only cared for the 4somes adventures in Starbug. And so this was quite a worthy rendition of those days :D I guess with CG settings, lots of locations & more modern humour it could be difficult to used canned laughter, they could've played it in front of a live audience to capture laughter though. I always find it difficult with shows that are so well known for their laughter elements and then specials like this that have none, but hey, its just like the Royle Family I guess -- you have to find your own favourite jokes .^^
I'm glad they did it, and I liked the intertextual theme, and I like how it ended, and I liked the referencing to Bladerunner... So overall, I guess I'm more than satisfied :) Good shit!!!
QuotePeople always prefer to laugh in a group. Laughter is very much a social thing, and is often infectious. So it makes sense that any normal human would laugh more at a show when it has a laughter track.
I don't really agree with a single word of this, and it sounds utterly ridiculous to me that you'd laugh at something with a laugh track but not laugh at it without one and
still claim it's funny.
Not necessarily.
I watched Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle the other week and I thought it was absolute complete rubbish and I'm embarrassed for him. Yet thinking back, I actually did find myself laughing on cue, several times.
So why did I laugh more at this even though I thought it was less funny... I think it's not unreasonable to suppose that the fact that the show had audience laughter (it's half stand-up and half sketch show) might have had a subconcious effect. I was responding more to the laughter than to the actual "jokes".
I didn't say I would only laugh if there's a laugh track. That would be ridiculous. I'm still intelligent enough to make my own judgment about the 'funniness' of something, but my own laughter might not necessarily be a reflection of this. Instead it might just be a reaction to the canned laughter.
This of course is just my theory, but I would sincerely like to wager 50 bucks with you that if you showed 100 random people 30 minutes of comedy with canned laughter and showed another 100 people the same 30 minutes without, and then recorded how much each group laughed... The first 100 would win.
They might come away with pretty even averaged results if you asked them to mark on a sliding scale how funny they found it. This would prove that the canned laughter has an effect on the viewer's laughter even if it doesn't necessarily change thei mind about the quality of the comedy.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 14/04/2009 18:52:50
I don't really agree with a single word of this
The social laughter thing
is true though. A good example of this is if you're watching something and you think it's funny, you're more likely to laugh out loud if you're with people. It's just the way it happens, I don't know why.
Applying a Pavlovian property to canned laughter is highly dubious. I've watched many laugh-tracked sitcoms, and nary raised a smile. I accept that there is an intention to cue the viewer to laugh, but I seriously doubt it's effectiveness in most cases. And I doubt it would raise laughs from something you would find unfunny otherwise.
I do agree that we are more likely to laugh out loud in a group setting.
At least I am.
On a slightly different note, I have always wanted to pluck up the courage to go to a sitcom and laugh really loudly at the unfunny parts.
That's not as much fun as you think. I watched Nacho Libre in a small cinema full of people who were clearly not enjoying it while I found it very funny and laughed very loudly. It was quite awkward.
Lets organise 'Sittens', an event where we all met up at some TV studio to watch the recording of a shite sitcom (they're all shite these days - My Family is the only half decent one going) and basically laugh off-cue and be total jackasses. Last one to get chucked out of the studio is a rotten egg. :D
Quote from: Stupot on Wed 15/04/2009 12:58:26
My Family is the only half decent one going
+++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR+++
+++ERROR ERROR ERROR+++
+++REDO FROM START+++
Bring our own laughter tracks in and crank up the volume :D
Taking wikipedia with a pinch of salt.. I read about this guy who invented canned laughter, Douglass:
"Charley Douglass' infamous invention was properly tested in 1965 when producers were trying to launch Hogan's Heroes. CBS screened two versions of the same episode to measure audience reactions; one contained the laugh track, the other was silent. As Hogan's Heroes required cerebral viewing, the audience watching the silent version were left confused, and the episode failed miserably. The version with the canned laughter succeeded and CBS gave the show a green light. After this incident, no sitcom went on the air without a touch-up from Charley Douglass' laff box"
It was 4 mins in and I was like: ok something's wrong... then it hit me, canned laughter (I always complain about a show with canned laughter, but now Red Dwarf seems more serious (and it's not meant to be)..
However I watched all 3 parts in one go, after missing part 2 +3 first time round on Dave. (Thank God that Dave always repeat) And I think it flows really well as a single episode. I really enjoyed it by the end.
Sure the acting wasn't what it use to be (It needed poorer acting from Craig Charles lol) And I was dissapointed that they didnt have a fast paced starwars text intro to 'explain' the transition from the last series. But I might try to edit one in and put in a laughter track, see what it does :)
But as I said over all a good job. Make more!!! lol
Having rewatched some old episodes last night, I can attest that the laugh track from the live studio audience does add something. There's a sense of community sort of, it feels nicer than watching it on your own. There's also something enjoyable about watching the actors ride the laughs and respond to the audience. I don't think piped in "canned laughter" ever adds either of these things, but listening to real laughter did.
The exception for me is when they show the show to an audience after its been filmed, and then dub in the laughs. That sounds just as bad as canned laughter does to me.
The other argument for the laugh track is that the actors raise their game when there's an audience, as most of the Red Dwarf cast have stated several times.
(Still, I wouldn't have preferred the specials to have a laugh track. The only option for that would have been canned or dubbed laughter, which is tacky and fake. And I didn't feel that the comedy was the main drive behind it, so I didn't feel an audience was that necessary.)
personally i thought it was pretty good.
i will admit i haven't sat and watched every episode, tho i have seen a few and the ones i can remember were funny.
i agree that it probably would have been better having a longer episode instead of 3 smaller ones, or even just showing them back to back as waiting a day for the next episode made it a bit 'eh' as you cant remember the last episode as clearly.
my personal opinions on the 3 back to earth episodes were thus;
Spoiler
ep. 1: it had me laughing at some points but was pretty slow to get started, thus i'd see it as a 5.5/10
ep. 2: had a lot more gags and the 4th wall with them knowing they were fictional, i think added a bit of twist to the episode, thus i'd give it 9/10
ep. 3: i feel it didn't really tie up any of the loose ends from the previous series', however they do reveil that Kochanski isn't dead. leaving the ending open tho i did find a bit of a let down, however, maybe it was to see how many people still watched red dwarf and although it would be [in my opinion] vertually impossible to make a series set after 'back to earth' they might, if the veiwing figures were high enough make the movie that we've all been waiting for and tie up the loose ends in that. thus i give this part of the episode 7/10
^ hidden as it might contain spoilers
my overall rating of 'back to earth' would be placed at 7.5/10 which i don't think is pretty bad.
and personally i don't think it is RIP Red Dwarf ;D
[and yes i do know there are typo's in there, i can't spell]
TeenageAssasin: This Forum isn't labelled as spoilers.. could you hide some of your post that gives away the story :)
Just thinking others on the site might not have seen it yet...
:)
:o sowwie i didn't realise.. how do you do that spoiler highlight bit?
edit: worked it out.. thank you revan for pointing it out
No worries... wasn't trying to be the spoiler police lol... :)
Coincidentally, the viewing figures for the first episode were 2.66 million.
Which seems rather paltry on its own, but apparently that's quite good for digital TV, with the channel itself proudly proclaiming it as the biggest ever non-terrestrial commission in UK multichannel history (http://dave.uktv.co.uk/library/red-dwarf/red-dwarf-ratings-success/).
Doug Naylor himself has said that there would be another series if there was sufficient interest (http://dave.uktv.co.uk/video/red-dwarf/exclusive-interview-doug-naylor-red-carpet/).
I watched these a couple days ago, and I enjoyed them. It would have been nice to have a studio audience (not canned laughter, though). There were bad bits with the good bits, but generally I was left with a positive feeling.
I'd be all for another season of the show. It would be nice if Rob Grant would get over himself and start working on these with Doug Naylor. Add Holly back, and I'd pee in my pants from all the excitement.
-MillsJROSS
Wondering a lot..is there Chloe (What a hottie) Annett on it? Cause if it is..you're complaining without a reason..so is there?
Shes in it for 5 minutes and really really old.
Most other places where this might be discussed are probably bogged down with shit.
So here's to the producers of Dave to realise a new series would be
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mother fucking awesome
as are you for understanding this 1337 AGS forum function
:D
Y'never know :)
Spoiler
you mean smegging awesome? :=
Quote from: Hotspot on Sat 18/04/2009 01:59:27
Shes in it for 5 minutes and really really old.
Last time I saw her she was still one smegging hot bitch..
Spoiler
My bad stee, smegging awesome!
Initiate innocent whistle mode .^^