RAM vs CPU

monkey0506 · Thu 19/10/2006 05:55:50

Okay I feel somewhat silly asking this, but I want serious answers. I've been trying to convince my stepdad that we need to upgrade our computer (custom built) for a while now, primarily focusing on the RAM because we only have an embarassing 512 MB.

However these last few days our CPU seems to have been getting overloaded a lot. The computer has been freezing...a lot more than usual...and when pulling up the dreaded "Windows Task Manager" it shows that our CPU is being used at 100% of its capacity.

Our CPU is a 2.4 GHz Intel Celeron, and like I said, we have 512 MB of RAM. So the question is this: Which should be upgraded first? I realize that everything the computer does has to be passed through the CPU, but it seems to me that upgrading the RAM would help take some of the pull off the CPU itself. To be perfectly honest I know a lot more about software than I do hardware...and we've all seen how much I know about software

Another thing that needs to be upgraded is our graphics card as apparently ATI's All-In-Wonder RADEON card isn't compatible with pretty much any game ever made ever...but that's a different story.

scotch · Thu 19/10/2006 06:05:29

I have an athlon XP 2600+ and 512mb ram... I'm fine with it, rarely is there much of a memory shortage... but I wouldn't mind another 512.
If your cpu is running at 100% usage when you aren't doing something extremely processor intensive you should check what is using the CPU on the processes list, because that's quite unusual and suggests there's a software problem.

I'm reluctant to upgrade one part of my pc really, because technology has moved on so much I'd have to throw out any bits I bought if I upgraded to a new system later. RAM has gotten faster, graphics cards come as PCI-E now, all the processors have new slots... I'm going to wait until I can make a new system entirely.

Damien · Thu 19/10/2006 06:08:00

Well, if you are doing nothing, and the task manager shows 100% CPU usage, then I'm guessing you picked up a virus. I had that problem, and that one was pretty bad, masked himself as SVCHOST (the windows critical process) so I couldn't remove it. When I finally found the file and a way to remove it, it fixed itself after restart so the windows partition got formatted by me.

I would suggest you to upgrade the ram (if you think it's necessary), but if you're planning a complete upgrade in the near future you could wait a bit, save some more money and so on.

EDIT: and what Scotch said.

Gilbert · Thu 19/10/2006 06:19:27

Also, check the performance tab of the task manager, it shall display info about your CPU usage and page file usage, pay special attention to the PF usage (and the memory consumption info. below), if the graph often hits peak area, that means most memory is used and quite possibly disk virtual memory is used extensively, which can affect performance significantly, this means you probably don't have enough RAM for your normal task (or, like others mentioned there's something which consumed the memory and/or CPU).

Evil · Thu 19/10/2006 06:34:56

Don't mean to be a jerk, but maybe you're just running too much stuff. Change around what starts up durring your startup and what runs in the background. I ran with 256 for the longest time, and I didn't have much of a problem. Only issues I had were with my graphics on my motherboard and my crappy monitor. For RAM, 512 isn't bad at all. Not for a family computer.

monkey0506 · Thu 19/10/2006 08:32:15

Windows XP, Norton AntiVirus, iTunes, [Mozilla Firefox[/Gunbound/Rakion]].

I close out of everything else. And no, I don't run Gunbound and Rakion at the same time. And I rarely have Firefox open while I'm playing either of them. Right now I'm not running either of the games, but I'm running the rest of that stuff. And it's showing between 15 and 25% CPU usage. I guess I should have been more clear that it's not at 100% all the time, it's just been happening a lot lately. I know how to check what processes are running, but the majority of them show 0% memory usage.

The main problem for me seems to come when I'm trying to play games. But my stepdad told me he's been having problems with the computer in general. So I'm not really sure what the problem is.

Anyway, I was really just wondering what would make the more dramatic difference in overall speed. For now I've got to go.

TheYak · Thu 19/10/2006 08:37:00

I'm probably the wrong one to respond since I'm running contentedly w/ 2GB. However, if you are looking at upgrades, any real CPU upgrade will entail a RAM upgrade as well. AMD's been cutting their prices for older chipsets, and you get get pretty decent performance for little money. If I were to build a family machine that would run most modern games quite well and be pretty handy w/ graphics/video apps, I'd probably to an AMD socket 939 X2 4400+ w/ 1GB DDR & a 7900 GS gfx card (or if 3D gaming isn't a requirement, probably a low-end ATI AIW).

In any case, there's no point in upgrading the cpu on the board it's on, but another 512 MB RAM might iron things out.

I'm with everyone else though, in suspecting you've got some spyware/virus or too many bloated applications. A clean install would probably net you greater performance gains than dropping double the RAM in.

(you just dropped in a reply, and I note there's no mention of Spybot or even AdAware in there . . . give Spybot a try if you haven't -> download link. Install, go through update/immunize steps and run a scan and see what it comes up with. It won't catch legitimate software that's ultra-bloated (like some of Creative Labs helper apps or other supporting software), but does a good job overall)

Radiant · Thu 19/10/2006 08:40:37

CPU wins!

Fatality!

Nikolas · Thu 19/10/2006 08:41:44

Nya... Radiant got there first!

CPU

Nostradamus · Thu 19/10/2006 09:36:04

Well, run a antivirus check. Next open Accessories ---> System Tools ---> System Info ---> Software and see what programs and drivers\device managers are running, of they're manufacturer is not available thye might be viruses need to be removed, google those files to find out. Next you have programs that load when booting that you don't need.
Click Start --> Run --> msconfig ---> Startup (\boot) folder and uncheck all programs you don't to start when booting the PC.
Now you have hopefully reduced CPU usage.

As for hardware, ALWAYS upgrade RAM first. It can do wonders. Though you have a weak CPU it's because Celerons are slower and weaker because they have less cache memory, so it would be preferable to get a stronger CPU too especially if you intend to run high graphics games, Celerons would be a bad choice to run them even with a graphics card. But First upgrade the RAM and see how it goes.

As for the ATI Radeon, the earlier eries like 9000 and 9200 are not compatibable with many of the newer games but the 9800 series is pretty good. And ATI has stronger series of crads than Radeon too.

monkey0506 · Thu 19/10/2006 23:01:46

So...some say CPU. Some say RAM. That helps.

Anyway, none of the real decision making lies with me. My stepdad asks my opinion, but in the end it boils down to two facts:

1. It's his computer.
2. It's his money.

As for "a clean install"...it's not really very practical at this point. Since it is my dad's computer. It's been probably about 6 - 8 months since we last formatted and whatnot. From what I've heard you should do it about once a year though just to get rid of all the accumulated junk files.

Thanks for all the tips/suggestions/info. It helps...me. Maybe not the computer I'm running...but it's nice for future reference.

Gregjazz · Fri 20/10/2006 00:25:32

Anti-virus software only goes so far. There's nothing better than a clean install, because virus software and spyware programs only can catch some of the stuff. Not to mention those programs themselves slow down your computer.

512mb RAM isn't bad as long as he's not doing 3D rendering and stuff like that. A lot of it is setting up Windows and getting rid of the unneeded junk Windows comes with. Also, you can turn off a lot of the stupid GUI stuff, too. Just doing this will make his 512mb RAM seem like a lot more.

Sounds like he's got a lot of spyware and possibly some viruses. I would really advise just to get an external harddrive, back everything up, and then format the system. Then copy back the files from the external harddrive as he needs them.

modgeulator · Fri 20/10/2006 00:52:56

Quote from: monkey_05_06 on Thu 19/10/2006 23:01:46
So...some say CPU. Some say RAM. That helps.

You've never explicitly stated why you need to upgrade so it makes it impossible to give a meaningful recommendation.

It sounds like your problems (CPU usage at 100%, ATI RADEON not working with any games) are software based, so upgrading CPU or RAM won't help much. Fix you Windows installation first (lots of good info in this thread already), then look at what software/games you find are under performing.

ManicMatt · Fri 20/10/2006 01:04:04

Like the general opinion here strongly suggests...

If you got a memory upgrade, and then your computer screws itself up some more, is the solution to get even more memory?

I'm with everyone here in thinking there's something worng with your PC. I have 512mb of RAM and my CPU is showing 99% idle right now.

Hey folks, if I wanted to upgrade my computer to run more plug-ins at a time in fruity loops so the CPU is less intensive, what's best RAM or CPU memory upgrade?

modgeulator · Fri 20/10/2006 01:40:01

Quote from: ManicMatt on Fri 20/10/2006 01:04:04
Hey folks, if I wanted to upgrade my computer to run more plug-ins at a time in fruity loops so the CPU is less intensive, what's best RAM or CPU memory upgrade?

Depends on what you're doing.
For loading large samples and sample-based plugs: more RAM.
For virtual analog synths and most effects plugs: CPU.
Although if you're loading hundreds of different little plug-ins and if you already have a decent CPU then RAM could help more.

monkey0506 · Fri 20/10/2006 05:42:54

Like I said, the CPU isn't at 100% usage constantly. It just happens sometimes.

As for the RADEON not working with "any" games, I was exaggerating. I've had problems specifically with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (I know for a fact that the OpenGL is out-of-date and incompatible and there's no way to upgrade it, and also Black & White as well as the Creature Isle expansion packs don't work.

EagerMind · Fri 20/10/2006 06:14:47

As other people have mentioned, unexplained slowdowns and CPU usage is usually an indication of some kind of malware on your computer.

Make sure your virus definitions are updated and do a scan. Also, download an anti-spyware program and run it - virus programs don't usually catch spyware. CounterSpy is probably the best program. It's not free, but it has a 30-day trial, and it's only $20 to buy. A number of free alternatives: Spybot (already mentioned), Adaware, and Windows Defender. If you find anything, I'd recommend a system reinstall as spyware can be very tricky to completely remove.

As for upgrading: keep in mind that if you're going to do any sort of significant CPU upgrade, you'll probably also need a new motherboard, which in turn may also require buying new, compatible RAM. So if you're looking for a quick speed fix, RAM is the way to go. If you're looking to do some significant upgrading (basically a new computer), go with the CPU.

modgeulator · Fri 20/10/2006 11:07:27

Quote from: monkey_05_06 on Fri 20/10/2006 05:42:54
Like I said, the CPU isn't at 100% usage constantly. It just happens sometimes.

If you close everything down and it isn't sitting at 0% then you should be suspicous. 15 - 25% would indicate theres a lot going on there.

InCreator · Fri 20/10/2006 13:14:49

I'd say CPU.

I have 2x2,18 GHz dualcore CPU and 1 GB of RAM.
And never had problems or lag because of ram, though it's a bit too little for such system.
Simply no or very little disk trashing... CPU usage is 3% at most, unless I'm playing some 3D game,
and pagefile size is constantly below 300MB.

It's either more room to hold unprocessed data or ability to process data faster to get ram cleaned up faster.
And cpu wins here.

But If you have a *fast* hard disk, it shouldn't be a problem.

Mozilla seems to be major memory eater... 134MB of ram under Mozilla is like everyday situation.

ManicMatt · Fri 20/10/2006 14:42:43

Quote from: InCreator on Fri 20/10/2006 13:14:49
Mozilla seems to be major memory eater... 134MB of ram under Mozilla is like everyday situation.

Mozilla as in Firefox?

Are you sure? Wouldn't it use up more than 44,768k as shown on my task manager? (about 2-4% CPU usage, depending on how many tabs are open.)