Today, March 16, marks what would have been James Bulger's 21st birthday if he were alive today. I would sincerely like to request to everyone that you keep his memory and his family in your minds today. I am reviving this thread after one month, and am hoping for more people to post. I was very disappointed last month when I only received a few replies. For those of you who don't know who James Bulger was, I strongly suggest you click the links below. His was the most heartbreaking story I have ever heard.
[original post]
February 12th marked the 18th anniversary of James Bulger's murder. I'd like everyone to keep his memory in your mind. I would be interested in engaging in any conversation about the case, so feel free to speak your minds.
For those of you who don't know who James Bulger was, here are great resources. I strongly encourage you to read these articals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html (really in depth)
Please, read these at your own risk (especially the second). They can be very difficult to read for people with weak stomaches.
I think it would be appropriate for everyone to view this heartbreaking video of Baby James being led off in his tiny casket to his funeral.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTywACNO2X4&playnext=1&list=PLAED404B560D116F6
Thanks for your time.
I know the story, and still to this very day it makes me go :-\ . Really I have no idea who is there to blame for what happened to that poor soul. It all makes me sad if anything.
I didn't know about this murder (I was 11 at the time... Scary to think that while I was playing Monkey Island, slightly younger kids were doing... This evil stuff :/), but this is stomach-churning...
Glad to see that one of those bastards is back in prison. I hope he receives a good number of beatings >:(
I remember when this happened. Horrible stuff - then as now
What they did wasn't just murder, it was monstrous... unforgivable.
RIP Jamie
I remember researching this in my first year of media studies (the movie Childs Play 3 was blamed for warping Veneble's mind for a little while because his father who he wasn't even living with had rented it at some point in time). I guess here's my take on it now...
These murders were just kids with a piss-poor understanding of the world, not Damien from The Omen. What happened was horrible but calling them monsters and hoping they get beaten up in prison's hardly going to get us anywhere closer to understanding it all.
Honestly I'm far more affected by the front page photos of one of the(now grown up) now grown up killers with his girlfriend with lurid headlines along the lines of 'How DARE he find happiness in his tortured, wretched life when Jamie Bulger is DEAD!". Nice work, tabloids you've
A) Exposed a man who's identity's been changed for his protection
B) Incited hatred towards a man for something he did AS A CHILD
C) Dragged an innocent woman into the whole sorry mess while you were at it
Honestly, this makes me feel more sick than the murders themselves. Kids torment each other all the time, stupid fucked up things happen as a result of it all the time, it's tragic but it's humanity. But whatever FULLY AWARE ADULT decided to publish that article, that's the true scum of society right there.
Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about I found with some quick googling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255608/Yet-250-000-new-identity-Jamie-Bulger-murderer.html
It's like they want to start a bloodhunt for some new material. Cunts.
I do agree actually. The british tabloids can be feral little shits.
I do feel a little ill when law abiding citizens call for criminals to be lynched or castrated or whatever. Especially after they have served their time.
Revenge is a horrible act that should be eliminated from the world.
Quote from: EHCB on Sat 12/02/2011 15:48:41
Honestly I'm far more affected by the front page photos of one of the(now grown up) now grown up killers with his girlfriend with lurid headlines along the lines of 'How DARE he find happiness in his tortured, wretched life when Jamie Bulger is DEAD!". Nice work, tabloids [...]
Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about I found with some quick googling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255608/Yet-250-000-new-identity-Jamie-Bulger-murderer.html
It's like they want to start a bloodhunt for some new material. Cunts.
Picture of the (grown up) two + girlfriend are missing, maybe you linked the wrong article?edit: I'll rephrase - what I mean was, has that happened or it's just a possibility?
I agree the tabloid press is the root of all evil, that's why I don't read them.
But I don't think its fair to criticize those people who call these criminals monsters and what-not. It's a perfectly human reaction to a very inhuman crime.
What these boys did was something so unthinkably disgusting in almost every way imaginable. This wasn't just 'kids tormenting each other', and yeah they had a piss-poor understanding of the world, but for some people, myself included, that's not an excuse. They knew exactly what they were doing, and crucially, they knew that it was wrong.
I think it's perfectly normal for we law-abiding citizens to react in disgust at the memory of such crimes... Especially when they find out that Venables barely set foot out of prison before starting on the child porn ... that was the final insult that changed the minds of many people who had previously been willing to blame society, or Chuckie.
Thats fine except some people do actually want these guys *killed violently*.
That's not normal.
I was born one year after the murder occurred. I also happen to be American. Naturally, I never had any reason to hear of the murder. The truth is that I stumbled across the story completely by mistake in December. While browsing some IMDB forums, I kept seeing James's name pop up. I decided to Google it, and was horrified at what I read. I had to stop midway through because I thought that I'd vomit. I forced myself to continue, and eventually found the trutv link. I then forced myself to read the whole thing. I was in a state of depression for two weeks. I couldn't go five minutes without thinking about Baby James. Even now, I still frequently thought about James.
Quote from: EHCB on Sat 12/02/2011 15:48:41
I remember researching this in my first year of media studies (the movie Childs Play 3 was blamed for warping Veneble's mind for a little while because his father who he wasn't even living with had rented it at some point in time). I guess here's my take on it now...
These murders were just kids with a piss-poor understanding of the world, not Damien from The Omen. What happened was horrible but calling them monsters and hoping they get beaten up in prison's hardly going to get us anywhere closer to understanding it all.
Honestly I'm far more affected by the front page photos of one of the(now grown up) now grown up killers with his girlfriend with lurid headlines along the lines of 'How DARE he find happiness in his tortured, wretched life when Jamie Bulger is DEAD!". Nice work, tabloids you've
A) Exposed a man who's identity's been changed for his protection
B) Incited hatred towards a man for something he did AS A CHILD
C) Dragged an innocent woman into the whole sorry mess while you were at it
Honestly, this makes me feel more sick than the murders themselves. Kids torment each other all the time, stupid fucked up things happen as a result of it all the time, it's tragic but it's humanity. But whatever FULLY AWARE ADULT decided to publish that article, that's the true scum of society right there.
Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about I found with some quick googling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255608/Yet-250-000-new-identity-Jamie-Bulger-murderer.html
It's like they want to start a bloodhunt for some new material. Cunts.
It's interesting that you mentioned Child's Play. From what I remember reading, the judge ruled that there was no link between the movie and the murder.
Are you sure about that part about one of the killer's pictures appearing in the paper? As far as I'm aware from any research I've done, no one knows who either of them are. Also, wouldn't the newspapers be breaching legal contracts by exposing his identity. Thirdly, I think I would have seen the picture by now. Do you have a source where I can see the picture?
Also, I've read from many sources that Venables revealed his own identity in prison. He must have had trouble living with the guilt. Obviously, he's suffered from a lot of mental trauma. Nevertheless, can you really blame any prisoners who may have discovered his identity?
Quote from: Stupot on Sat 12/02/2011 18:31:37
I agree the tabloid press is the root of all evil, that's why I don't read them.
But I don't think its fair to criticize those people who call these criminals monsters and what-not. It's a perfectly human reaction to a very inhuman crime.
What these boys did was something so unthinkably disgusting in almost every way imaginable. This wasn't just 'kids tormenting each other', and yeah they had a piss-poor understanding of the world, but for some people, myself included, that's not an excuse. They knew exactly what they were doing, and crucially, they knew that it was wrong.
I think it's perfectly normal for we law-abiding citizens to react in disgust at the memory of such crimes... Especially when they find out that Venables barely set foot out of prison before starting on the child porn ... that was the final insult that changed the minds of many people who had previously been willing to blame society, or Chuckie.
I agree.
I don't know that the boys should be killed, as many people have suggested. However, they're sentence was waaaay too short. Furthermore, neither of them spent any time in a "jail." They were placed in correctional centers, where they were taught how to be placed back into society. They were even escorted on a weekly basis to public places. Venables got his own TV and Nintendo. Apparently, he also had access to a computer. He even convinced the guards to let him stay up half an hour past the curfew on a nightly basis. I believe that when they left their individual centers, they should have been thrown into a real jail for a number of years.
I've watched several documentaries on YouTube about both the murder case. I remember seeing a great one narrated by the head investigator of the case. It had a good amount audio from the police interviews. These are the only copies I've found of any interviews. Does anyone know if there is any more audio available to the public? If possible, I'd really like to hear the recordings or read the transcripts.
I would be interested in talking about anything related to the murder case. Just speak your minds.
It's pretty obvious that what they did was beyond belief. And I can't ask their families to forgive them, as it's no easy task. But forgiveness is never an easy task, is it? Thing is I'm not sure what I'd do to those kids if I had any power on them. I mean, they were just kids, but on the other hand what they did wasn't really something you'd expect kids to do.
Perhaps we're all affected by the tabloids in some way, regardless.
Who ever blamed the parents is my question! The parents of those two kids. Who ever blamed the mall security for not doing their job. As far as I recall those two kids stole like a ton of stuff before they decided to steal James Bulger.
We've all stolen or attempted to steal something during our childhood. Like a candy from our grandma or anything. But imagine if we never get caught. If the limits weren't there. That's what happened.
If there's someone to blame here, it's their parents. If my kid ever committed murder, as a normal parent, I'd knew I fucked up somewhere as a father.
Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 13/02/2011 06:06:32
If there's someone to blame here, it's their parents.
Robert Thompson's father was jailed at one point. When he got out, he ran out on the family. At that point, Robert's mother became an alcoholic. From that point on, all of the Thompson boys had to fend for themselves. However, rather than help each other out, the older would actually bully the younger. The Thompsons were all known in the police force for having criminal records.
John Venables was the middle sibling of three. Both of his siblings had learning disabilities. He was always craving the attention that they got. Also, his father had split from his mother and come back several times, creating a lot of insecurity.
Their parents were obviously somewhat responsible, but we still must put blame on the boys. It was established in court that they knew right from wrong, and that what they did was wrong. What does bother me a little is the fact that it appears as if Robert Thompson was the ringleader. He was known to be very charismatic, and therefor seemed to drag Venables into the whole ordeal. Throughout the police interviews and court sessions, Venables was very distraught and remorseful. He often fantasized about bringing Baby James back to life. After he confessed to the murder, he requested that somewhat let James's mother know he was sorry. Robert, on the other hand, never really seemed to show remorse for what he had done.
"Right" and "wrong" are just some words without any meaning. If someone is cruel to another person, (s)he must have some serious problems and is definitely very unhappy. Or (s)he thinks that for some brainless reason (s)he does the right thing (like soldiers). No happy person will ever kill or hurt anybody.
It doesn't make the incident less tragic or something, but it's stupid to pick on the kids and call them monsters. "It's a perfectly human reaction to a very inhuman crime." is a stupid statement too. The crime is, of course, as human as the reaction to it. There's no good or evil, there's just things that happen and they have their reasons. I agree it's hard to believe that thoise kids did such a thing, but it happened and it has a reason. Calling for vengeance doesn't make anything better as even more lives will be destroyed that way (if not already, as the two won't be too happy for their whol life I could imagine).
Having said that, I regret having read the story as it almost made me vomit myself. These are the things you can't forget (like the murder of Sharon Tate and such).
Tomorrow, March 16, marks what would have been James Bulger's 21st birthday if he were alive today. I would sincerely like to request to everyone that you keep his memory and his family in your minds tomorrow. I am reviving this thread after one month, and am hoping for more people to post. I was very disappointed last month when I only received a few replies. For those of you who don't know who James Bulger was, I strongly suggest you click the links in the original post. His was the most heartbreaking story I have ever heard.
Don't be disappointed. Like me, maybe some people just hadn't noticed it yet or did but didn't click on it due to not knowing who James was.
It's absolutely horrifying. This is the first time I've heard of it. It is quite heart wrenching.
What struck me emotionally, more than the act itself, was when I pictured James' little face when they started to attack him... the confusion... being scared... wanting his mother. The innocents of trusting those two boys to take him somewhere and then they turn on him...
I have a 3 year old girl. I can't imagine something so terrifying happening to her :'(
These kids sound straight out of Damien: The Omen. It seems pretty clear to me that someone so thoroughly amoral at such a young age will never properly adapt to a moral society, so releasing either of them, to me at least, was a dubious decision. Better to have executed them both as children through lethal injection than to allow them to elevate their behaviors into adulthood where they could quite possibly do much more harm to many more children. Sure it sounds callous to execute children, but their crime was far more callous and brutal than a lethal injection, and if Venable's interest in children is real then we can derive that the years of imprisonment did not improve his nature but rather made him clever enough to hide it. Thompson likely has the same proclivities but is better at repressing it based on their testimonies about the molestation aspects of the murder case.
I don't pretend to understand what events shaped these two boys into vicious killers but I do know that in most cases prison does not reform people (there's a tendency towards the opposite with violent criminals), and when you've got two 10 year olds capable of this level of horror can you seriously expect them to grow up to be upstanding adults fit for society, half their lives shaped behind bars?
(http://patriciahysell.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/james_bulger.jpg)
(http://www.ujnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/jbulger.gif)
(http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/mar2010/1/1/grave-of-james-bulger-pic-pa-811100512.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6kkH4xekiNo/TErCRzJFLRI/AAAAAAAAOJ0/6_Ob4SSBp6Q/s320/James+Bulger.jpg)
James being lead to his death
People die every day in horrific ways.
I'm not sure why you've decided to fixate on one death from nearly twenty years ago, tragic though it may be.
Spare a thought for the thousands in Japan?
Quote from: Kweepa on Fri 18/03/2011 04:09:39
Spare a thought for the thousands in Japan?
Yeah, and in Lybia...
While I support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes I do think that the government should wait until the criminals turn 18 before executing them. Though these killers definitely should not have been released back into society. Have these murderers done anything to redeem themselves?
Quote from: Kweepa on Fri 18/03/2011 04:09:39
People die every day in horrific ways.
I'm not sure why you've decided to fixate on one death from nearly twenty years ago, tragic though it may be.
Spare a thought for the thousands in Japan?
Of course I know about these deaths. Frankly, I'm rather pissed off about Japan. The earthquake and tsunami were both very bad, granted. However, what gets to me the most is the deal with nuclear reactors. It seems that each day, experts announce that the situation is worse than they thought. Now, they're apparently accepting America's help. Could Japan be a (toned down) Chernobyl?
Furthermore, I am a religious Jew who has gone to Jewish schools all my life. Therefore, I have learned a fair bit about the Holocaust and heard amazing stories (both good and bad.) I am well aware that one tragic death of a child means nothing to the deaths of millions.
The reason I'm fixating on this one case is not just because James's death was so tragic. It's also because of the age and the background of the murderers. Furthermore (though this happens all the time), justice was never served. Ordinarily if I read or hear about the death of someone (especially a child), I feel pity. With James's story, I felt as much pity as I ever have, both for him and his family.
Lastly, I'll admit that I have an obsessive nature. I've been known to obsess over certain bands, TV shows, historical events, etc. It's uncommon, but for some reason, when some things make an impact on me, I latch on.
Quote from: mkennedy on Fri 18/03/2011 15:25:53
While I support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes I do think that the government should wait until the criminals turn 18 before executing them. Though these killers definitely should not have been released back into society. Have these murderers done anything to redeem themselves?
Believe me, I'm put a lot of thought into whether they should have been killed or placed in jail. After all this time, I still haven't reached a conclusion. The only part I've decided on is that if they were to be killed, it wouldn't have been right to do it before they turned 18.
John Venables is back in jail in a two-year sentence for the viewing and distribution of child pornography. Once again, I am afraid that he is being offered a VERY light sentence for his crimes.
It is impossible to know what Robert Thompson has been up to, since his name was changed. While he hasn't done anything to be thrown back in prison, I really doubt he's done anything to redeem himself. Interestingly, the question you posed reminds me of the movie "Boy A," which is how I discovered the whole James Bulger case in the first place.
I recommend you study the law around what is considered malice aforethought. There is still a great debate in legal circles over the legality of the convictions of these boys, at what age can one truly appreciate the consequences of your actions, whether or not at the time the jurisprudence points to a guilty verdict and the validity of this verdict. It is still very much a grey area.
Do you not think that maybe, although these people have done awful things, their actions be viewed in the context of the world in which they live? To fixate upon them and expect a lively debate twenty years after the fact, is a touch peculiar. As is to be "pissed off" about Japan.
What is annoying you? The loss of human life? Or the lack of a target to pillory?
Quote from: Zooty on Fri 18/03/2011 16:34:52
I recommend you study the law around what is considered malice aforethought. There is still a great debate in legal circles over the legality of the convictions of these boys, at what age can one truly appreciate the consequences of your actions, whether or not at the time the jurisprudence points to a guilty verdict and the validity of this verdict. It is still very much a grey area.
Do you not think that maybe, although these people have done awful things, their actions be viewed in the context of the world in which they live? To fixate upon them and expect a lively debate twenty years after the fact, is a touch peculiar. As is to be "pissed off" about Japan.
What is annoying you? The loss of human life? Or the lack of a target to pillory?
What is annoying to me is not only the loss of human life, but the fact that the reactors exploded, possibly spewing radioactive particles into the air. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with there being a "lack of a target to pillory." You seem to be suggesting that I only become upset over deaths caused by humans. I assure you that this is not the case. It is only natural, though, for me to become more enraged when deaths are in the hands of other people.
In reference to malice aforethought, one of the articles I supplied a link to deals heavily with that. The author asks if the intention really was to kill James, or if the boys' "game" went too far before they themselves knew what was going on. I don't think this is nearly as relevant an argument as that of doli incapax.
I am well aware of the people who cried foul at the murderers' judgement. On one (or maybe two?) occasions, Venables's and Thompson's sentences were greatly increased. However, because the two were tried in an adult court, this was considered illegal, and their sentences were decreased to their original lengths.
It is true, and I therefore can't deny, that my fixation on the case is "peculiar." However, I don't think that expecting a discussion (when did I ever use the word "lively?"), even if it is almost 20 years after the fact, is "peculiar." My original post was the day before the anniversary of James's death. I only revived the topic once, and that was the day before his birthday. Is it so strange to expect a discussion of something that many people still remember surrounding its anniversary? Furthermore, your mentioning of malice aforethought is an excellent example of something that could likely stir up discussion.
I was simply referring to your displeasure at the lack of debate, apologies for the confusion.
I don't understand how the exploding reactors has annoyed you, it was an essentially unforeseeable event which many people are sacrificing their lives to prevent. Unless i'm misunderstanding annoyance (or "pissed off") and you mean it worries you?
Malice Aforethought, I would presume, is the key argument here. I would presume you accept that Doli Incapax is an outmoded law, as proved by this very case. You cannot assume that simply because of someone's age they simply cannot understand what they are doing, right from wrong. However, my argument would question how one could conclusively prove of someone so young, whether they knew either way. At least with sufficient certainty to understand the seriousness of life and death and the social norms that surround them. To establish the mens rea of murder in an adult court of law, it is to appreciate the high probability of the consequences of your action and a legal intention for these consequences to come about. This, I would imagine, is very difficult in the case of two 10 year olds, as their ability to communicate their understanding is limited by their own frame of experience. It is a complex issue on which I do not intend to replicate my essay answers.
I would dismiss Doli Incapax as an outdated presumption (as indeed the CDA did) and would afford it little relevance in this case, at least with the benefit of hindsight.
An interesting legal argument, but not worth dredging up on Adventure Game forums, seemingly to garner sympathy for the victim.
What happened to Zooty? He sounds like an adult! :=
So many children in this world have been brutally murdered, babies drowned by their parents, thrown into dumpsters like garbage...it's horrible, it's a sad fact of life in our world full of people with serious mental problems, depression, fear, disturbing circumstances which are not the norm for you or I, situations we could never fathom. I have no idea what these two boys lives were like, or what could motivate them to do something so horrific. When I was a child I did all kinds of things that were wrong, but I didn't understand why. I knew it was wrong, because I was told so...but why it was wrong was a life lesson I had yet to experience and wrap my head around. Maybe these two boys were deranged, or maybe they were just lost and didn't see their act as the horrific act we see it as. It's a sick world.
I also agree, where's the love for Japan? Sure they're struggling with the reactor, but shit happens in a major natural disaster. There's quite a bit of panic, there's miscommunication, and even maybe someone is trying to cover their ass at the expensive of everyone else, but we don't know any of that for sure. All I know, is there are people hurting, hungry, lost, dying, dead, and it's just unimaginable. If you want to be pissed off, be pissed off enough to send them some money and help someone get food.
I'm not going to bother reading this whole thread, as to be honest, I can't be assed*. This is the first time I've been back on this forum in a hell of a long time, and this was the first thread I came across.
If this was my kid, I would personally be offended. You say yourself that you weren't around when it happened. Do you have any real reason to bring it up, now? I can understand it being referenced as part of something else, but to actually make a whole thread about it? Imagine it was your kid, would you want someone bringing it up every year just 'so people remember'? I'm sure as hell wouldn't. Oh, guess what, the holocaust happened, people only reference that when it's appropriate, and even then when it's fitting.
Did you ever think that maybe the parents want to just move on? If they've set up a charity, and actively promote it on certain occasions, by all means spread the word. But nothing in your original post suggests that. So, yea, go people who were in the Boer War. No real reason, but what the hell, they had a sh*tty time, once upon a time. They're all dead now, and even if they weren't they wouldn't be reading this, so they won't mind me mentioning them. Boer War was a load of crap for those involved, so I can take the Pseudo-High Road you're on now.
I can understand you want to do your bit to 'make the world better', but seriously, bringing up past failures of humanity is NOT the way to do it. It just gives more f*cktards a reason to fail on an epic scale, and you're just giving the dregs of humanity a reason to continue on their path. People should be inspired to be better than they are, not given a reason to be worse.
So, these kids might have seen a movie, so what? The parents weren't their to tell them it was a movie, and the things in it were wrong. I'm sorry, but reminding people of this isn't going to help make the world a better place. You're not raising money for a charity doing this, and it's not going to help the unfortunate kids in the future.
People, in general, are bastards who naturally enjoy hurting others (Don't try to tell me you've never laughed at another person's misfortune, as it's a natural defense mechanism in the body/subconscious). They might not admit it, but I'm afraid most people revel in other's failures. If they find some self-gratification in causing others pain, I'm sure they will. All you've succeeded in doing is potentially making some folk who didn't know about this event have a 'back up excuse' prepared. Hell, they won't even be prosecuted as adults.
I'm saying this as someone who's on the edge of going completely postal. I was a nice person once, but honestly? F*ck it. I've given up on humanity, if I can wipe out a crowd of people and face no 'real' retribution, and we had guns in this country, what is there to stop me? I can just say TV made me do it. Or failing that, I could say I read about some kids doing it and getting away with it. You know where that Raoul Moat bloke went wrong? He didn't bring enough ammo.
People shouldn't get excuses for being c*nts, from any medium. This thread, to me, is just setting a precedent. Kids can go out and do whatever the f*ck they want, because other kids have done the same in the past. It involves absolutely nothing to actually solve the problem. (Apologies to any other posts that tried to remedy this).
The worst thing for me, is people jumping on long past band wagons they have no reason to be on, just to make themselves feel like they're 'making a difference', without putting in the effort to ACTUALLY make a difference. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe ONE person is capable of changing the entire world. I just find it pathetic when people think a half-assed effort, in a limited area will make a difference. Especially when that effort is to solely make them feel slightly better about themselves. Let me ask you, how much did you give to charity this year?
* For those that know me, I've become a world class c*nt. You may or may not see a thread about this in the future.
Quote from: grim107 on Fri 18/03/2011 17:59:52
However, I don't think that expecting a discussion (when did I ever use the word "lively?"), even if it is almost 20 years after the fact, is "peculiar." My original post was the day before the anniversary of James's death. I only revived the topic once, and that was the day before his birthday. Is it so strange to expect a discussion of something that many people still remember surrounding its anniversary?
What is there to say, really?
"The murderers were horrible people."
"The murderers were mentally unsound."
"What are the murderers doing now?"
"What is the family doing now?"
"Poor kid, he shouldn't have died."
And we wheel out the sympathy for this one kid who got killed and got media attention for it, we hang up his corpse so that we can gaze in horrified disbelief at it for another day long after the fact. We look at photos of that one kid, that one kid who is just one of many thousands, millions, who are brutally murdered. And then we put him back in his box until next year.
Round and round we go, digging up the graves of those long dead to mourn them, even if we didn't know them. Just one more face that we have to shed tears over forever, and ever, and ever. They can never be laid to rest. Dragging this out longer just causes more suffering as we are forced to tear open old wounds just to remember the pain. This isn't making the world better, what could we possibly gain from dwelling on this?
There is enough suffering going on in the present to cope with. Japan, as stated, is enough for a lifetime. Let's not have deliberate sideshow acts where we display indignancy, shock and disgust at the situation on cue. The media have already done this. You have no connection to him. There is nothing to be done, nothing you could do or could have done. You do not need to champion the dead boy's cause anymore.
Just let it rest.
Just let
him rest.
Firstly, this thread is now officially creepy.
Secondly, Some of you people need to stay the fuck away from me.
Thirdly, C*nt and cunt mean *exactly* the same thing. If you don't want to use the word then dont use the word.
You're a cunt, Leafshade.
Quote from: Snake on Sat 19/03/2011 21:53:35
You're a cunt, Leafshade.
Don't call him a c&unt.
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27
If this was my kid, I would personally be offended. You say yourself that you weren't around when it happened. Do you have any real reason to bring it up, now? I can understand it being referenced as part of something else, but to actually make a whole thread about it? Imagine it was your kid, would you want someone bringing it up every year just 'so people remember'? I'm sure as hell wouldn't. Oh, guess what, the holocaust happened, people only reference that when it's appropriate, and even then when it's fitting.
Clearly, Denise Fergus still wants people to remember her son. Tomorrow (Sunday, March 19,) a race is being held in James's memory. The money, as I understand, will go towards creating the James Bulger House, a section of the Red Balloon house, which does excellent things for children.
I certainly wasn't around when John Lennon died, but I, as well as millions of others, think about him every year on the anniversaries of his birthday and death.
In no way am I saying that James Bulger's death was comparable to the Holocaust, or even Japan's current situation. How could the death of one child, no matter how gruesome, be compared to the deaths of millions? However, knowing this case in detail, knowing the age of the killers, somewhat knowing the background of the killers -- this really stuck with me. Is that such a bad thing?
And yes, if it were my kid, I'd be honored if people remembered him.
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27
I can understand you want to do your bit to 'make the world better'
It's funny, you read closely enough to notice that I never mentioned a charity. However, you didn't read closely enough to notice the fact that I never once mentioned "making the world better." Let's not make assumptions.
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27
All you've succeeded in doing is potentially making some folk who didn't know about this event have a 'back up excuse' prepared.
I guess your right. I likely just got some murderers off the hook.
It's not like if you just offer an excuse in court, it will be accepted. In this case, the judge ruled that there was no correlation between the movie and the murder. Furthermore, I doubt anyone hasn't heard this excuse before.
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27
I've given up on humanity, if I can wipe out a crowd of people and face no 'real' retribution.
The only reason anyone has any reason to give up on humanity is because of people like you.
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27
The worst thing for me, is people jumping on long past band wagons they have no reason to be on, just to make themselves feel like they're 'making a difference', without putting in the effort to ACTUALLY make a difference. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe ONE person is capable of changing the entire world. I just find it pathetic when people think a half-assed effort, in a limited area will make a difference. Especially when that effort is to solely make them feel slightly better about themselves. Let me ask you, how much did you give to charity this year?
Once again, through this thread, I am NOT trying to change the world. I am trying to draw attention to the case as (somewhat of) a memorial. When I became familiar with the James Bulger case, I did NOT feel better about myself, I assure you.
Lastly, you got me with your last question. I am a sixteen-year-old in high-school with no job, and no money of my own. Whatever money I do manage to raise, I make a point of giving a chunk to charity. The last charity I donated to benefited children with cancer.
And yes, you are one of the world's biggest cunts. You likely will see a thread about this appearing sometime in the future, although it will likely be started by someone else. That's not my style. I would definitely consider contributing, though.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Sat 19/03/2011 19:57:21
Firstly, this thread is now officially creepy.
Secondly, Some of you people need to stay the f*ck away from me.
Thirdly, C*nt and cunt mean *exactly* the same thing. If you don't want to use the word then dont use the word.
Thanks, Leafshade. I agree. This thread has now become creepy.
Notice that I took the liberty of altering your post. You forgot to place a * in your expletive.
Lastly, (and this is aimed towards all my "critics",) If the disaster in Japan is so important to you that you have to throw down others' misfortunes, why have you not started any threads? Certainly, it is not too late to "get on the bandwagon." I apologize for having offended everyone here with my "lack of care" for those in Japan.
It appears as if no one is interested in discussing the James Bulger case. For this reason, I would like to lock the thread once some last few replies are posted. If this is possible, and anyone can explain how, I'd appreciate it.
Since when is the general discussion board not the place for this type of thread?
I'm going to keep my opinion on the matter out of this thread because, as usual, it would just be misunderstood and then start an off-topic-10-page-back-n-forth where nobody will see the obvious point I'm trying to make and get all "enlightened" on me about it trying to make me seem ignorant and eventually I'll just stop trying to make the close-minded see my point and bow out of the thread garnering posts about how this somehow proves them right since I am not taking part anymore when it's actually a case of me not caring to open a closed mind and then I'll receive countless PMs from people saying that they understand and agree with me and they can't understand why the people in the thread just can't see it when it's so obvious.
Pass.
I admit grim is a little ... emphatic ... with his posts on this [admittedly] morbid subject but I don't see the difference between that or somebody making a post about a movie they liked. It's "general" discussion ... it's what it's for. When a celebrity dies and somebody, who cared for him/her, starts a post about it, there's always those blow-hards that feel the need to post the usual "people die every day why is this so big a deal" posts. So I suppose I'm not really surprised.
Is it really that hard to understand that this is something he cares about and wants to discuss, generally.
For what it's worth Grim; I sent some positive thoughts into the universe for little James ... where ever he is.
I have to say, yes there are more dead people, in several occasions I can think of, like the Japan earthquake, but we're not equally affected by anything. I was more affected ,when after like a year since the last Athens earthquake, an earthquake occurred in Turkey, than I was for the Tsunami in Indonesia.
Bravo Darth, well said: this is General Discussion after all and if Grim wants to talk about it, why shouldn't he?
I for one am thankful he started this thread. Yes, it's painful to be reminded of events like these, but I don't think that we should simply bury them so long as we treat them with due care and respect. I think that's exactly what Grim has done: I don't see that he's being callous or sensationalist like those bloody tabloids. He's started a valid discussion that has deep and far-reaching questions - many of which I still cannot answer myself - and has succeeded in bringing this particular story to our friends around the world who may not have known about it.
Yes, it's been talked about before, and will continue to be whenever people feel the need. If people think they've heard it all before and don't want to talk about it, then don't. But don't shout down others who do. All Grim was asking for in his original post - and i'm sorry I missed it Grim - was for people to spare a thought for little James. I have no connection to James other than being human and feeling horrified at the circumstances of his death. Grim wasn't suggesting that James' death is any more 'important' than the terrible events taking place in Japan - he simply highlighted a case which had moved him personally - and I agree with Dual: we're not equally affected by these events; how can we be? Our experiences and relationship to the people involved will always play their part, and it's not right simply to go by numbers. Just because something happened years ago or on the other side of the world, doesn't mean that we can't care.
Thank you, Darth, Dualnames, and straydogstrut. I couldn't have said it any better.
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27Imagine it was your kid, would you want someone bringing it up every year just 'so people remember'? I'm sure as hell wouldn't. Oh, guess what, the holocaust happened, people only reference that when it's appropriate, and even then when it's fitting.
Creeeeeepy remark concerning the Holocaust only being referenced when it's appropriate and not 'every year just so people remember'.
There's so many yearly recurring remembrance days for the Holocaust, all over the world, that your suggestion alone makes me both laugh with disbelief and feel a little sad for you.
Also, re: this topic, lay off, negabrats, as far as I can tell, it's a valid topic which has reminded some and initiated others (I, for instance, had never heard of James before).
Quote from: voh on Tue 22/03/2011 22:54:05
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sat 19/03/2011 01:30:27Imagine it was your kid, would you want someone bringing it up every year just 'so people remember'? I'm sure as hell wouldn't. Oh, guess what, the holocaust happened, people only reference that when it's appropriate, and even then when it's fitting.
Creeeeeepy remark concerning the Holocaust only being referenced when it's appropriate and not 'every year just so people remember'.
There's so many yearly recurring remembrance days for the Holocaust, all over the world, that your suggestion alone makes me both laugh with disbelief and feel a little sad for you.
Also, re: this topic, lay off, negabrats, as far as I can tell, it's a valid topic which has reminded some and initiated others (I, for instance, had never heard of James before).
First off, Voh, thank you for your support. I truly appreciate that there are some people willing to take this thread for what it's meant to be.
Secondly (and this is aimed at the part that you quoted from Renal,) I have now read several news articles stating that Denise Fergus was thrilled with the turnout to the 5k race last Sunday. She says that she hopes to make it an annual event. To me, that sounds like she wants people to remember...
Tonight on BBC1: Jon Venables: What Went Wrong? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010nvf9)
I didn't really want to comment on this, but since people like to keep digging it up...
As someone from the Liverpool area, I was 4 at the time of this incident. My brother was the same age as James when this incident occurred.
I can quite confidently tell you that if these bastards identities ever get leaked, they are gone. I think the real concern here for the authorities would be which one of a long list (we're talking a really long list) of people would have got to them first.
They sure as hell aren't worth £250k of taxpayers money.
10 years old is plenty to know the difference between right or wrong. You can be truly evil at 10 years old.
To reflect on previous posts, the reason the press like to bring it up every so often is because they are indeed festering interfering shits. Rather than let something like this lie and allow people to move on, they prefer to reinforce those feelings of hatred in the community - Don't buy the Sun.
The 2 things that will always be remembered in the minds of everyone here are James Bulger and Hillsborough. Not because people can't forget or want to forget, but primarily because they are not allowed to forget.
Don't buy the Sun
Quote from: Leon on Thu 21/04/2011 22:34:24
Tonight on BBC1: Jon Venables: What Went Wrong? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010nvf9)
Just watched it. Really, it makes you wonder why America's system is different than England's. All my life, I've heard of corruption in America's legal system. People aren't convicted of obvious crimes, or they get small sentences for committing big crimes. Since I heard about the Bulger case late last year, I've fallen under the impression that England's system is even worse. Jon Venables and Robert Thompson never got the punishments they deserved. What those in charge failed to understand was that there is a difference between rehab and punishment. Thompson's rehab seems to have been successful. Venables was clearly not. After their rehab, they should have been thrown in jail. Instead, they walked away with new identities. It seems that time and time again, the justice system is spitting in Denise Fergus's face.
Through watching this program, I discovered the case of Derrick Robie, which happened shortly after Bulger's murder. The obvious parallels have been drawn (for example, the backgrounds of Smith and Bulger's murderers.) The one major difference between the two cases was that of Smith's sentence. Smith was sentenced to between nine years to life in prison. Even though he has gone through his rehab, he still remains in jail, having been denied parole five times. Do I believe that Smith has currently suffered an adequate consequence? No. Do I believe that he should, some day, be freed? Probably. Although it's impossible to tell, Smith seems sincere in his apologies and his future intents to help the public. I don't believe that everyone deserves a second chance, especially not murderers of children. Neither I nor anyone else but the victim's families has the right to forgive these murderers. However, once given a second chance, it's nice to see the offender fall out of the spotlight.
Jon Venables has dealt with murder, drugs, fights, recently emerging sex scandals (that were covered up before his initial parole hearing,) and the ownership and distribution of indecent pictures of children. He is up for parole in July of this year. Although it pains me to say so, due to the way that past events have been handled, it seems only likely that he will be freed. This will be another slap in the face to Denise as well as the rest of the good citizens of England.
Seems like he's going to be given a third identity - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/breach-sees-child-killer-venables-id-144410826.html
I also watched that documentary a couple of weeks ago, and in it they speak to a guy who had made friends with Venables after his initial release and that Venables had confessed his true identity to him and a few others. I thought then that he would surely have to be given a third identity when he is released from his current sentence, because they can't allow any members of to know who he really is, even close friends.
I think he should be severely punished if he is found to confess again in future. He has been given a lifeline that many people feel he doesn't deserve. He has to prove himself by not throwing away public money.
Forget about his past crimes for a minute, he's still vry much a selfish, ungrateful cunt.