The news has been on every news channel today, along with every editorialist and their cousin voicing their opinion of the man. I usually bad-mouth the Regan years, but that is only when I view him through older and world-weary eyes. When I was a little kid, his warm personality and easy-going maner always gave me an inexplicable sense of security. He was the earliest U.S. president I can remember existing. Ah well. So long, Gipper.
This happened a few days ago now... but its sad... :(
I just found out about it today ... and it makes me sad. Both my grandfathers had alzheimers (sp?) so I know what the former president's family has been going through.
I've always really liked the Ray Gun (that's what my friends and I used to call him when we were kids).
Like Dave Gilbert, he's the earliest president I can remember.
Rest in Peace President Regan :(
my grandad died last monday aged 84, why isn't that on the news?
Depends, boyd. Did he have two wives and nearly get assassinated?
Yes... :-\
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Tue 08/06/2004 03:35:53
Depends, boyd. Did he have two wives and nearly get assassinated?
no, but he did once get captured by nazis and spent a few years in a nazi POW camp, he could also whistle through one of his ears as a result of being clobbered in the side of the head with a gun by a nazi soldier
Was he the leader of a country? I think not.
so you think people will be saying great things about george bush once he dies or gets ill just because he was leader of his country do you?
people die every day, why should anyone get any kind of special treatment in death just because of who they were?
Simple.
It's because the media is a whore for stories that will attract readers.
Since Reagan is a well-known person, he gets the front page.
It doesn't matter how unpopular president you are, you'll still grab headlines with your death.
Even Nixon got the ink.
I give my condolences to his family and friends, but I really dont care.
Not to get off subject... Boyd for once I agree with you!
There is no famous people, I just see them as spoiled and rich. Why do they get free crap and special treatment just because there in a few movies or were politicians. I mean who frickin cares who an 21 year old tramp is going out with, has fake boobs, or smokes.
Complaining because our beloved relatives (But let's admitt it, unknown by the great public) don't are in the news when dying is the most illogic and demagogic thing I've ever read here.
Are you serious? Do you really thing that it is feasible or practival to announce everyday in the news the names of the 6,000 people dying in every country?
Please, be serious... and don't call me something like "Insensitive" or something, I also had dead relatives, it is just that I don't expect them to be in the Yahoo.com news.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Tue 08/06/2004 05:02:36Even Nixon got the ink.
Holy crap! Nixon's dead?! I thought he was still alive... :-\
I'm not really sad about it, he would have lived a great life being a movie star and president.
It's also the 1st US president I remember as a kid, and he did do some good things for the world.
It's more sad that he went through Alzheimer's, cause living to 93 is a pretty good effort.
I've known people with Alzheimer's and it's hard for the person in the early stages cause they sort of know it's happening, but in the later stages it's much worse for the family to see them like it.
So really for everyone involved it's probably more of a releif than any sort of sad occasion, he now gets to rest in peace happily.
And as far as headlines go of course an expresident, exprime minister, exworld leader is going to get headlines. there's pleanty of people in this world that go unrecognised for heroic things, way more heroic than any world leaders, but that doesn't sell papers, and that's what it's all about in the corporate world.
Did Boyd Smith get in the media for sending dirty text messages, accepting blowjobs from strange people, 'not' having 'sexual relations' with dead Antelope's? of course not
Quote from: DGMacphee on Tue 08/06/2004 05:02:36
It doesn't matter how unpopular president you are, you'll still grab headlines with your death.
And just how ironic this is :)
To be fair, i don't mind media covering (he's a former president after all), what i find funny are people reactions. Everyone goes: "I'm really sad, my condolence to his family", even though half of them were making fun of him before or didn't like him at all. Media freaks ;)
Actually I'm quite amazed some of you westerners learned of the news so late, we got the news on Sunday morning.
Looking at his skills as a politician (something americans tend not to do) he might very well have been the second or third worst president of USA.
Interestingly, he was on the right place at the right time, and with the right speech-writers in his staff, to appear like the one who ridded the world of the communists.
But hey, he was folksy, rethorical and not too intellectual; the ideal american president.
It's just a pity Thatcher's still alive.
Farlander: Are you wryly suggesting that I shouldn't rejoice in the death of another human being? Um...
Quote from: Ali on Tue 08/06/2004 12:23:31
It's just a pity Thatcher's still alive.
Funny... :D
as a president, he was one my least favorite in our entire history, (ahead of pirece, and prehaps behind our current bush and van buren). I cant really forgive him for iran/contra, (and the repercusions that happened to my mom in college for protesting agasint covert action in latin america) and he ballooned our deficit, and made the poor poorer.
that being said....
Its good the news is printing about him. He's still important, and prob one of the few US presidents who actually left a mark, be it good or bad, on the world. He was carismatid, and forever changed both of our major political parties. (the democracts didnt get power again until they began to use some of Reagans ideas)
its too bad that he went out the way he did. I bet he and his family suffered a lot. I hate reagan as a preident, but not as a person. He desreves his days in the news
Too true, Panda. The "trickle-down" theory was one of the worst fiscal policies ever conceived of. It was probably the the biggest contributor to our massive national debt. At least he tried to rectify the situation once. When his massive tax cuts were deemed as a bad idea, he increased taxes the following year. Unlike Bush, who continues to lower taxes.
And yeah, he was extremely charismatic. Maybe not as much as Clinton, but very close. My favorite Regan-ism was from when he got shot, when he reportedly said: "Sorry, Nancy. Guess I should have ducked."
being an igonarant brit, i don't know what regan did. did he have some greta achievement or was he just a nice guy. Prime ministers don't get big state funerals, why do presidents. i don't understand. ???
One quick reply: Prime ministers in the UK are not Heads of the State, the King or Queen is. Presidents of the US are (were).
Long reply: But that deppends... The father of our Spanish King never ruled and he has a State Funeral, because he helped the Democracy to back. I guess Mr. Bush needs some propaganda praising the dead former president, or something.
Reagan iwas president from 80-88 I think. he is often credited for winning the cold war. He was very charasmatic, and while in office, the people loved him (approval rates around 75-80 almost the whole time). He put our nation hugely into debt, made the poor pooorer (with the biggest tax cut in US history) and made the rich richer. during his administartion, we had Iran/Contra, a depression, and near atomic war
at Beast, Reagan was a mixed bag, and most US historians agree with me. The Republicans want to kick FDR off the dime, and put Reagan. I wont stand for this
I recognise his achievements as he certainly left a significant mark in the history but I can't really mourn anybody who dies at age of 93. His time just came. And I know what I'm talking about since my grandma died at 92.
Panda, they want to take Hamilton off the ten dollar bill and put Reagan on that. Hamilton was never a president, and that is their logic. I don't particularly agree with putting Reagan on the ten dollar bill, but hell, Jackson's on the twenty and he totally screwed our economy over by destroying the banks because of a little grudge.
Reagan's reelection slogans were, if I remember correctly, "Aren't you better off now than you were four years ago" and "It's morning again in America." Those eight years had their ups-and-downs, but things like that always happen. I think America prospered under Reagan, and I know people say that he didn't end the Cold War, but I believe it was his meetings with Gorbachev and his firm stance helped end it.
Yes, I have a Reagan reelection '84 and a 50th inauguration pins, and I understand that a lot of people didn't like Reagan because he was a conservative, but I think it's wrong for people to say things like "I'm glad that he's dead and rotting." That's just sick and rude, and a sad attempt to get on the news. I don't care how you feel about someone; show some respect to the dead.
I mean, I think that Jimmy Carter is history's monster, but I would never speak ill of him after he died. That's just wrong.
It's a little interesting point that Reagan based such a large part of his presidency on economic growth and prosperity, but the 1980's was actually the worst year for growth in the US since the end of the war.
And just a little clarification on other stats regarding his popularity. Over the full length of two terms, averaging out approval ratings, the numbers are very little different from Clinton, although the latter had rather steady ratings, whereas Reagan dipped sharply in a second term. And he never reached the highest rates of approval above 90% which have only been recorded for Bush Snr and Jnr.
But who am I to dispute hyperbole.
Well, I guess we got to be famous to be on the news. At least every president gets the headlines on death.
I dont dislike regean because he's conservitive. that isnt a big enough reason. I did after all, kind of like the first bush, (or at least tolerated him), and look up to a few currenent republican politicians, like Powell and Sen John Mccain (ariz). Lincon was a republican. I think he did ok.
I dont like reagan because of Iran/Contra. I dont like reagan because of his giaganto 30% tax cut that screwed up the economy, and made the rich way richer, and the poor poorer. And I dont like reagan because he almost caused atomic war. and I wont use any permant peice of currency with his likeness.
If we're going to start changing who's on our money...may I suggest Dr.King be first in line?
Don't worry, if they put Reagan on the dime, and they're inspired to use Reaganautic fiscal policy, the dime will be rendered irrelevant rather swiftly.
Ben Franklin wasn't a U.S. president either, and yet he's on the $100 bill.
As much as I dislike Regan, at least he was (for the most part) very honest when he went back on a campaign promise. When he was governor of California, he said that his decision to cut taxes was "cet in concrete." When he later had to increase taxes, he said "The sound you hear is concrete cracking around my feet."
I guess it just goes to show that public figures can get away with anything as long as they have a good attitude. It's no wonder that Regan was called the Teflon President, since nothing could stick to him.
Quote from: panda isnt a ninja on Thu 10/06/2004 12:14:54I dont like reagan because of Iran/Contra.
I don't think that Iran-Contra was so much Reagan's fault as it was the fault of his subordinates. His 'hands-off' management style allowed some things to go on, which I personally believe he did not fully know about. He was, admittedly, out of the loop on some things.
QuoteI dont like reagan because of his giaganto 30% tax cut that screwed up the economy, and made the rich way richer, and the poor poorer.
Over 20 Million jobs were created during his administration, and wages kept up with inflation. (http://reagan.webteamone.com/jobs.cfm) People are usually better off when they have a job, no? Also, many economists argue that his policies actually HELPED the poor. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=3&u=/nm/20040605/bs_nm/people_reagan_economics_dc)
His tax cuts also helped to make a much less progressive tax system. IMO, a progressive tax system is unfair. It penalizes somebody for success. The less progressive a tax system, the fairer it is. And through his tax cuts Reagan helped make our system MUCH less progressive.
Also, about all the deficits he caused, if Congress had spent the amount that Reagan asked them to spend, we would have ended up with a $130 Billion
surplus in 1989. (http://www.presidentreagan.info/reagan_budgets.cfm)
something tells me when Reagan AUTOGRAPHS items sent to Iran and latin America, he knew about it. Reagan might have been tough of the commies, (or at least talked tough..until he pulled a john kerry flip flop and negoitated with the soviets, and went into nucular arms agreements.) but you'd be hard pressed to convice me that some of his middle eastern moves didnt help terrorists. (Carter is guilty of this too)
Remember...Reagan ran as a small goverment fiscal conseritive. he made goverment BIGGER (not that Im complaining), and spent HUGE amounts of money, which america simply didnt have. if he goes on the 10 dollar bill, they better print it in red ink
Quote from: panda isnt a ninja on Thu 10/06/2004 20:50:56
(or at least talked tough..until he pulled a john kerry flip flop and negoitated with the soviets, and went into nucular arms agreements.)
I like how Reagan changed his stance on an issue and you say he's pulling a John Kerry... Shouldn't Kerry be pulling a Reagan? Or maybe he should be pulling a "Just about every president and person ever to exist on this earth because someone who stands steadfast on every single idea until they die is someone I am very very afraid of..."
its one thing to change your mind on something...but as a politician, if you're going to make something a major theme of your campaign, (Reagan "soviets=evil. I cant deal with them), then you at least owe it to people who vote for you to keep that. its like Bush Sr saying "read my lips. no new taxes"....then goes to latter raise taxes
it would almost be the equiliant of GWB negotating with terrorists right now...saying that Yasser Arafat is "a man I can do bussiness with"
Im not saying that entering into those agreements and working with gorbichov was wrong...but thats what the liberals had been saying to do for the past 40 years, and even nixon tried it. Reagan won by trashing those ideas...then he turns around and does them.
...prehaps if Kerry was eleected...then cut taxes for everybody...it would be this type of flip flop.
How about when George W Bush said he'd leave no child behind and then... [Major theme]
Well, you know...
And then when George W Bush said we found Weapons of Mass Destruction and then... Well... You can figure it out...
And then when George W Bush called for Osama bin Laden "Dead or Alive" and then well...
And then when George W Bush opposed a special investigation into how the government dealt with September 11th, and then 4 months later, supported it.
Then he wouldn't go to war unless the UN voted on it, then he did without the vote...
If you're going to define the act of constantly changing your mind on issues I think it would make more sense to use the person who does it and is more powerful when he does it. So I guess John Kerry is really pulling a George W Bush.
"Im not saying that entering into those agreements and working with gorbichov was wrong...but thats what the liberals had been saying to do for the past 40 years, and even nixon tried it. Reagan won by trashing those ideas...then he turns around and does them."
I'm confused by this, do you mean that Reagan capaigned AGAINST working with Gorbechov and then when he was elected went against his campaign and worked WITH him?
We'll never really know what happened in the Iran-Contra affair.. I suspect Bush Sr. asked Jr. to block the Presidential papers from release (normally released after ?10? years) to save face and prevent legal problems. It was one of the first things GWB did when he went into office.
Regans dead. . w00t - that means a Reagan movie Marathon, hang on 'Bed time for Bonzo' here I come . .
oop, sorry for changing the subject.
Quote from: jaz on Wed 09/06/2004 14:33:50
I recognise his achievements as he certainly left a significant mark in the history but I can't really mourn anybody who dies at age of 93. His time just came. And I know what I'm talking about since my grandma died at 92.
Exactly. I really couldn't care less that Raegan has died, but that's precisely because he's had a good run and has died of natural causes. If on the other hand he had been assassinated, it would probably be newsworthy.
I don't think Reagan changed his stance on the issue of communism. His plan was always to make America strong so the Soviets could not help but sit down at a table and talk out a peaceful resolution. Was this silly? No, it was very good planning and it worked.
Also, I do not think Reagan is getting all this press just because he was president, he's getting all this press because he was a president that was loved by so many people, both democrat and republican. Yes, Reagan died of natural causes and these last couple years were probably hard for him, but he had a nice life, so perhaps there should not be this much coverage. Really, though, Reagan was a great man and I think people, especially those not able to make any visits to his coffin, would like to watch the ceremony.