This thread is about RPGs being similar to baking cakes.
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"In a good RPG, you USE the mechanics to advance the story. It is... like a car and a train with a driving toy in it. Both get you to the end, but the train will continue the story with the toy amusing you through it. The car has you use what you're doing to get you there. Active vs. passive participation in the exploration of the world. Final Fantasy will take you to the end of it's story while you play a different game."
Okay now replace 'passive participation' with 'DESIGNER acting on the AVATAR through the PLAYER'. Replace the toy car with 'parts of the game which belong in the NE or NW section such as combat sections which are action or strategy games' and replace train with 'baking a cake'.
The question you needed to ask is without the stats and levelling up, ie. without the cake baking, is it still an RPG? The answer is no. That's why when they lessen the changes for the AVATAR it is called an ACTION RPG.
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"Beyond Oasis, known in Japan as The Story of Thor: Hikari wo Tsugu Mono (ストーリー オブ トア 〜光を継ぐ者〜 lit. "The Story of Thor: A Successor of The Light"?) and in Europe as The Story of Thor: A Successor of The Light, is a 1994 action role playing video game developed by Ancient and published by Sega for the Mega Drive/Genesis console.
The game has action adventure elements similar to The Legend of Zelda series.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Oasis
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"Cake mix would be a sandbox game,"
No a sandbox would be a sandbox game. You don't get to say 'gee I wonder if I can make Jelly with this cake mix'. It is not a sandbox game! Ask your mother. I even described how they work:
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When you bake a cake, the person who wrote the instructions is getting you to use the oven to change the cake mix to a cake. In other words, this is a really shitty game, which amounts to watching something change slowly. Which is what RPGs are, if you take away the story and combat. This is undeniably true. The next time you see 'final fantasy x', you will think 'final fantasy cake-mix'.
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=44867.20
(http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif)
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 05:15:55
(http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif)
Wow you deleted the other thread, which makes this thread incomprehensible. All because I said Atlantis wasn't real. Petty much?
What is he saying, exactly?
"Turkeys fuck up"?
Atlantis? I don't give 2 shits... it was the point where you called fellow AGS folk jerk-offs.
QuoteI agree about the comment about porn and swearing, but these jerk-offs need to stop this accusatory bullshit.
it is 00:41.....
Just have a sleep and reconsider this in the morning :)
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 05:41:10
Atlantis? I don't give 2 shits... it was the point where you called fellow AGS folk jerk-offs.
QuoteI agree about the comment about porn and swearing, but these jerk-offs need to stop this accusatory bullshit.
Good, so we're agreed holocaust denial is okay.
I'm really really really really sorry that I offended anyone by using the name jerk-offs but I was trying to inject some humor (see the irony http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony when you compare what is said before the comma and after it) into an otherwise emotional thread, whereby people were throwing around wild accusations that I was a troll. PLZ don't punish the community (which would like to find out how cakes and RPGs work) for my mistake.
Quote from: Babar on Mon 28/11/2011 05:39:41
What is he saying, exactly?
"Turkeys fuck up"?
I think he's giving vague cooking instructions. "Shut the fudge up!". And for three minutes, maybe, given his hand gesture.
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 05:52:28
What? How would it punish the community, how removing a thread by someone who only registered yesterday is denying them wordly good? Do you really think you can turn up anywhere and have everyone bow down to your opinion?
You are a known internet tit, that isn't my problem.
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Anthony Zirbas is a horrible videogame critic
www.smf4free.com/forums/afterparty/index.php?topic=192.0
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earth-shattering battle between icycalm and jason rohrer
forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=16752.1185
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Darkchan: parse
www.darkchan.com/parse.php?site=789chan...L... - United States
19 Feb 2011 â€" does it really make any difference whether pretentious dickhead Anthony Zirbas here had any part on the actual writing of this particular review
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Games Journalism 2010: It Can't Sink Any Lower, Can It? - Page 19 ...
www.quartertothree.com › ... › Quarter to Three Boards › Games
Seriously you'll see in the other thread I said I was NOT icycalm. Icycalm also has a thread where he says "PS this dude is an imposter". So you have to give icycalm a reasonable amount of time to say in the thread that he is not me. Only if that doesn't occur then you can say I am icycalm.
WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE A WITCH BURNER? AREN'T INTERNET FORUMS SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE ENVIRONMENTS FREE FROM ABUSIVE ANIMATED GIFS? By the way, I am deaf, and I don't appreciate being mocked because I have to lip read (ps. how did you know I was deaf? do you also know I am crying? even my low functioning autistic cat is upset)
Seriously just because I linked to culture.vg doesn't mean I am icycalm. There's this thing called plagiarism. ie. you have to acknowledge sources. If you don't you go to jail. Also note there are laws against denying the holocaust. So I think if you plagiarised the holocaust story (like said 6 million ewoks died on endor) you might cause a legal headache. Don't do that! This community needs this kind of advice WHEN THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW CAKES WORK.
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 06:13:10
but you clearly infuriated people because you seem to fail to listen
Enough with making fun of my deafness already!
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 06:13:10
possibility of being someone hated elsewhere on the internet?
Clearly I'm hated here, given your abusive posts.
Quotemaybe myself and others will hear you out in the future.
Again, stop trying to rub it in that you can hear and I can't.
QuoteI'm not a witch hunter, I just hate idiots who treat internet forums as if they have no substance, history or long term members.
Replace 'idiots who treat internet forums as if they have no substance, history or long term members' with 'witches'. Think about it.
QuoteNo-one here resents it, nor do any of us think the genre is dead.
So why does Rob Gilbert endorse an article which says exactly that, ENTITLED WHY ADVENTURE GAMES SUCK, which links to an article ENTITLED DEATH OF ADVENTURE GAMES
http://grumpygamer.com/2152210
QuoteNot sure what you hoped to achieve by claiming it was. Nor do I understand your apparent obsession with the holocaust, or whether you're just trying to stir up members feelings on that. Again, you mentioned it briefly in a previous thread, and now you've started a new thread about it and you've even carried it over to this one. You're being borderline racist, so drop the holocaust stuff.
Seriosuly? DID YOU SEE WHAT COLOR IRANIANS ARE? DID YOU SEE WHAT COLOR JEWS ARE? Drop your racism bullshit please. The brown people win.
It's called a fucking banhammer. If the moderators won't use it in such an obvious case as this, I just don't understand anything anymore. Save the worthless circlejerk discussion and ban the fucker. Simple as that.
Quote from: ddq on Mon 28/11/2011 07:18:54
It's called a fucking banhammer. If the moderators won't use it in such an obvious case as this, I just don't understand anything anymore. Save the worthless circlejerk discussion and ban the fucker. Simple as that.
I do think mocking the disabled is uncalled for but shouldn't we give m0ds a second chance?
I dont understand the vitriol towards TGH..
he might be wrong but he doesnt seem to have been offensive.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 28/11/2011 07:24:48
I dont understand the vitriol towards TGH..
he might be wrong but he doesnt seem to have been offensive.
that's okay they're just prejudiced against the disabled.
Oh no wait, i see the holocaust denial stuff.
Yeah, youre a douchbag.
Incidentally, holocaust denial is pretty much the worst supported historical position in history. Ever.
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 07:28:46
Enjoy it whilst you can bigshot, the same way I'm going to enjoy the birds singing this morning.
Seriously, do you steal candy off children?
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Calin, so you didn't notice crap essay bashing adventure games > reply explaining DG's successes > counter reply telling DG to make an FPS > mentioning the holocaust
He didn't notice because I didn't say that. I said DG successes were due to him making adventure games in the niche genre of detective games. I told people if my argument was invalid there would be successful games in other genres, such as a successful point and click adventure game about a rally car driver (duh, obviously use the car racing genre for this story).
I said Ron Gilbert would have wanted to make a FPS about LOOM.
Seriously, why delete a thread and then make up what was written? Oh wait you like to steal candy off children and abuse the disabled.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 28/11/2011 07:29:15
Oh no wait, i see the holocaust denial stuff.
Yeah, youre a douchbag.
Incidentally, holocaust denial is pretty much the worst supported historical position in history. Ever.
How about Atlantis?
Atlantis is not, and has never been, a historical position.
But frankly yes they are about on the same level of evidence support.
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 28/11/2011 07:38:00
Atlantis is not, and has never been, a historical position.
But frankly yes they are about on the same level of evidence support.
Not quite as Atlantis is at least physically possible.
The way they said bodies were gassed and burnt in the holocaust breaks the laws of physics.
QuoteI told people if my argument was invalid there would be successful games in other genres, such as a successful point and click adventure game about a rally car driver (duh, obviously use the car racing genre for this story).
Why obviously?You can't write a decent story about a rally car driver that doesn't involve driving? The only way you can relate to that mans life would be to race in-game? Some people can piece things together without the need to be told in blatent fashion what's happening, some people can even appreciate delving into stories that don't necessarily take the turns you expect.
And maybe that's why certain P&C games are successful, because people don't need everything spelt out for them every step of the way, maybe a good narrative enigma is all that's needed to pull them in, maybe people have brains, and they understand that a racing drivers life isn't all about racing, and perhaps even understand a story can take place over a period of time that doesn't involve the racing whatsoever. What if it's about a rally car driver who has been in an accident, and is now deaf, and disabled, and retarded and foaming at the mouth. Should it still be a top down racer? By your logic yes it should, which is why I'm finding your logic shit.
Good news guys. I opened up itunes and realised I'm not deaf, it's just the animated gif doesn't have sound.
Bad news: m0ds will have to find a real disabled person to abuse in order to deal with his resentment towards the adventure game genre which died as a result of resentful adventure game designers.
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr249/gilbot/2000-01-01124335s.jpg)
Now, my cat makes everyone happy. If this causes the holocaust he doesn't mean it. Forgive him can you?
Brought to you by one who didn't even read any of the threads and wished that this is the only post that remains.
Quote from: m0ds on Mon 28/11/2011 08:07:06
Then of course, you can try and make those internet communities side with you.
Like by making posts saying I urinated on a disabled person? I'd rather not fit in with this community, thank you very much. I shudder to think what the 'test your morality' thread is about.
I hope that cat posted is just sleeping.
This is the last post you'll hear from me - I'm going to sleep. I can sleep at night. Not sure if m0ds can.
Why don't we all just listen to this song and chill out? ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiCctrKdmKw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiCctrKdmKw)
Quote from: the game hackademic on Mon 28/11/2011 07:39:04
The way they said bodies were gassed and burnt in the holocaust breaks the laws of physics.
Ya gonna have to provide some sources there bucko.
There is significant evidence including testimony from SS officers that the jews were gassed and the bodies burnt.
Holocaust denial is in the same category and moon landing conspiracy theories. The theorist produces arguments and evidence of such an elementary nature that it would be absurd for no one to notice. When presented with this fact they usually claim its an establishment of some kind (government, zionists, whatever) suppressing the truth.
I am sorry to be the one to inform you that it is not the establishment keeping you down but rather it is that you are wholly incorrect.
Why not delete the Holocaust-denying thread/posts and keep the thread actually making some kind of argument (turgid and mistaken as I find it) about adventure games?
And really, we need CJ to ban someone? Given that he isn't around that much these days, I think we need to find a way for the forums to be less dependent on him.
Global mods may be able to ban members too, but we don't always have many active global mods around for this. This just happens occasionally anyway. We're not being attacked by a swarm of flying trolls trouts.
Cheers!
WE GATS A NEW TROLL OMG.
SUPR HAPPY FACE.
And i demand not banning. Because:
@gamehackashitface: I R GUY WHO GUN TITS U LESN ! ! !
ALSO @gamehackmoderngayfuckstupid: I find your posts the best attempt at trolling, I am terribly bad at anti-trolling, but, i am very happy that you came, it has been a bit without a troll.
Aww. I was enjoying the other thread. It was like a train wreck. Can't we just leave it locked but visible? As a cautionary tale, perhaps?
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Mon 28/11/2011 12:43:10
Aww. I was enjoying the other thread. It was like a train wreck. Can't we just leave it locked but visible? As a cautionary tale, perhaps?
I have it saved so I can probably upload it if you want.
I also have m0ds abusive comments directed at the disabled saved, which he claimed he was proud of. Such classics as: "Hope someone pisses in your f**ked up ears, too." Why were they deleted?
If you're allowed to deny the Holocaust (clearly a troll move, designed to do nothing less than stir up debate and get attention, as no one who isn't mentally retarded would actually believe such a troll-lie), then I'm allowed to deny that Mark Effing Lovegrove ever said anything of that nature against you.
Seriously, m0ds may hold prejudices in some degree, but he is in no way an outspoken racist, he is in no way outspoken against the disabled, and just as a catch-all, he is in no way outspoken against any group of people (regardless of the size of the group) for any reason whatsoever, with the sole exception being those who are so mentally deficient as to believe that trolling should be socially acceptable behaviour (and that retaliation and prevention by moderators in a public forum should be considered an actionable offense).
Quote from: TrollhackWhen you bake a cake, the person who wrote the instructions is getting you to use the oven to change the cake mix to a cake. In other words, this is a really shitty game, which amounts to watching something change slowly. Which is what RPGs are, if you take away the story and combat. This is undeniably true. The next time you see 'final fantasy x', you will think 'final fantasy cake-mix'.
If you take away the story and combat, then an RPG video game (which is what you are referring to here, as opposed to a table-top or other type of RPG) would amount to nothing more than running around in a fantasy world. There would be no "watching something change slowly" because without the combat system there would be no leveling system or stats. You've removed the mechanic for which these items existed, thereby negating their very existence. You cannot say that without a story that an RPG video game is like baking a cake, because baking a cake involves specific steps, that executed in order, effect the end result. That, in and of itself, is a story. Perhaps not an interesting or engaging one, but it is a story nonetheless.
"I put the cake mix in a bowl with some milk and eggs. I mixed it together, then poured it into the cake pan. I then put that into the oven which was already preheated to the appropriate temperature. After the allotted time, I had a fully baked cake!"
That is a story. You yourself said that you were removing the story from these RPG games. How do you propose that something can have a story without having a story? Your very argument negates itself.
You also said that it is "undeniably true" although I've just shown exactly how your argument negates itself directly. Therefore you are, yourself, before any of us even comment on it, denying the undeniability of your argument. That pretty much sums up ever attempt you have thus far made at providing a logical statement.
Going back to your argument that any false or unverifiable testimony negates the possibility of truth, I demand that nothing is true, based on the sole testimony of a man who used to live on an asteroid by himself. His testimony, by your logic, means that anyone who says anything to the contrary (i.e., that anything is true, anything at all, even an RPG being like baking a cake), is clearly lying. Everything is therefore false. However, if everything is false, then the statement that everything is false is also inherently false, meaning that at least one thing in all of existence has the possibility of being true. If at least one thing has the possibility of being true, then logically, we must conclude that the statement that nothing is true could possibly be true.
Your logic, it makes perfect sense.
Be careful about what you construct, hacks. First you said you were deaf. Then you claimed you were not. Now you're twisting words again. We KNOW m0ds, so putting words into his mouth is what one might call a bad move. Not that you've made a wise one so far.
___
Oh dang, That WAS troll feeding, right? One day I'll learn.
Oh, and furthermore, I asked you to refute that an apple is like a monkey wrench. I even said "please" (as opposed to "PLZ"). You have failed to do so. If you do not respond within a timely manner I will be forced to conclude that you are ignoring everything I am saying. Considering that some of what I am saying is a logical evaluation of what you have said (i.e., normal discussion), if you are ignoring me then I will be forced to conclude that you are a troll or that you dislike me personally for some reason. Given that I have never given you any reason to dislike me personally, I would therefore be forced to logically conclude that you are a troll, QED.
You have one hour to respond.
Read your own damn signature, monkey.
Since adding that to my signature, all I've done is constantly feed them. :=
Now that's irony. 8)
Oh, and the hour's up. Trollhack has officially publicly announced that he was/is a troll and should henceforth be ignored. That is all!