Is anyone here a Scientologist? I have some questions :)
You could ask, straight away you know...
I was execting a somewhate bigger post from you...
anyhow, I"m not so I'm off now.
seeya!
Don't be ridiculous. Nerds don't have enough money to be scientologists. You might as well be asking "Is anyone here a MILLIONAIRE? And if so, will you send Pesty thousands of monies?"
I don't wanna ask and get a bunch of people who arent scientologists giving me answers, I guess. I've already had plenty of discussions from people who aren't scientologists but I would honestly like to hear from someone who is. I guess I just want to know the what and why of it all, and what they think of the controversy.
Pesty: True, but maybe some of us are closet millionaires?
Isaac Hayes is a scientologist ;)
http://www.xenu.net/
I think this covers pretty much everything you need to know about Scientology. If you want to see some letters from scientologists, scroll to the bottom of the FAQ.
I'm guessing you're asking this because you'd like to find out why someone would believe the abso-fuckin-lutely ridiculous stuff they do? Or, maybe trying to determine how much information about Scientology outside of the group is misinformation? Or, some crazy hybrid of the two from which you hope to determine that it's a nutty pseudo-religion whose members have no effing clue about it?
I'm been on my own train of thought about it recently. There are more difficult things to believe, but finding it possible that any person capable of thought would believe the crap about Xenu, Thetans, galactic federations, e-meters, et al, from a guy who had said at one point that (paraphrasing) the easiest route to success was to form your own religion.
That said, I'm wondering if the draw is more that a person gets to join a secret society-esque organization, gain esteem from its members as well as some free publicity, all the while contributing to a pyramid scheme that eventually puts one in a very secure financial position using non-taxable dollars. Since many countries have laws against pyramid schemes and similarly-constructed scams, the easiest way around that (in the US, at least) it to take the same thing and make it a religion.
Tom Cruise's membership - not so surprising. Jason Lee's? A little taken aback by that one.
(Oh, yeah.. link-wise, in case you haven't seen it every-damned-where already, Clambake.org (http://www.clambake.org).
Quote from: HillBilly on Sun 26/03/2006 09:59:34
http://www.xenu.net/
And also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology.
Note that Scientology is considered a religion
only in the United States. Other countries generally consider it (1) a commercial organisation, or (2) a dangerous sect. Indeed it is forbidden in some countries.
Kinoko, I wholeheartedly suggest you become a scientologist, it's going to be fun and it'll work for you very well.
Scientology cracks me up.
They don't believe in modern medicine. However, I would be willing to bet ANY ammount of money that if (God forbid) Kelly Preston was to get cancer John Travolta would be speding top dollar for the most up to date medicines to cure her. It's just silly.
Also ... if I become a scientologist, can I become a whiny ass wussy like Tom Cruise?
[wine] South Park made fun of me ** boo hoo ** they called me gay and made fun of scientology ... if you show that episode ever again I won't promote M:I 3 [/wine]
If he's so afraid of people finding out he's puttin' from the rough, perhaps he shouldn't act like such a fag.
I respect the rights of those that practice scientology to practice it as they wish. However, I think it's hooey. Granted; I don't know a lot about it. From what I have seen, read, and learned ... it's hooey. Seems more like a cult to me (and indeed, as Radient said, in some countries outside the US, that might just be the case.)
I didn't read all of the posts, but I just want to point out that the 'religion' is way different for celebrities than it is for normal members. Also, the quest to recruit celebrities was officially a big issue for scientology some time ago, and it has worked out very well for them. The goal was to get through to important channels that people would listen to, i.e. celebrities. The wealth they possess is also incredible. The religion has 8 million members and each member has needed to pay an entrance fee and donations. Add that up with the multi-million donations from billionaires and movie stars and you have quite a lot of cash. I don't think Scientology would spread to other countries or at least very enthusiastically, if that was the goal. If you think about, the US is the perfect place for the religion to thrive. It's a large population that has been turned into exhibitionists by the pop culture that holds a very important role in the american lifestyle. People feel lonely and unappreciated so they need a certain league to be part of. Nevertheless, this is something that is true all over the world with every religion, sect or even organization. But in a country as highly developed as the US, the trend manifests itself in quite an alarming way.
One funny thing is they have an underground bunker in the desert that holds the writings of L. Ron Hubbard carved on enormous titanium plaques. The idea is that if the masses don't take in scientology and stick to the supposedly 'false' fields of science and psychiatry, the world will end. So once the world has ended and not destroyed the planet, new inhabitants, or aliens, can come in and adopt scientology as their religion.
Something I've noticed from the member lists is that these people tend to be mostly excentric and sensitive artists, and they hardly ever are considered intellectuals in society. Tom Cruise, Beck and Moby, for example, all seem a bit off. It seems that the ideal of it is to find a new purpose in life and to escape the decadent mainstream, which is often Hollywood. The intellectual aspect probably comes from the fact that a majority of who we consider intelligent and wise people throughout history have consistently been agnostic, or at least skeptical and wary of religion. Jason Lee actually surprised me as well. I've followed his career both as a skateboarder and as an actor since the beginning of the 90's and I find it really weird that he would go into scientology. Then again, he is a struggling actor and an artist.
Scientology has the potential of going bad, but I don't see it growing a lot in the future. The media has been pounding on it for a while now and it's been labelled as a deceitful and dangerous sect for exploiting unstable people, which it probably deserves. But like any religion, I respect it only for the social work they do. They do actually go into crisis areas to help out and that's very respectable. Still I don't condone the brainwashing. Until they really try to take power or do something equally undignified, I won't rise to the barricades. The US government being as corrupt as it is, and the Scientology hotshots having as deep pockets as they do, I am worried that they might heavily interfere in the government.
I guess I was just hoping there was some normal-ish person who believed in it, so I could ask them why and stuff. No biggie.
I've been watching lots of funny clips on it on youtube lately, and recently, they took them all down (on the weboage), then yesterday or so, put them back up because people kicked up a stink about it (I think).
Interesting :)
If you are unable to find a normal-ish person who believes in it, you can draw your own conclusions from that fact.
Oh no, he's not going to promote Mission Impossible 3! Now what are we gonna do? :o that's serious blackmail there... Because you know, Mission Impossible 3 is actually worth seeing, unlike South Park ::)...
I think the fact that Scientology involves an evil dictator called Xenu who lived before earth is logical proof that the religion is, in fact, fake. Xenu sounds like something only a fiction writer could think (pun intended), because Xenu is such an original impressive name that comes from Greek word "xenos" and variations of it are often used in science fiction (and other) fiction stories. And even if it's completely coincidential I really doubt that in the pre-Teegeeack-life years it would be considered as impressive and fitting for an alien dictator and somehow I feel like Hubbard just came up with the name "Xenu" because it sounds impressive.
http://newgrounds.com/portal/view/263120
I don't see what's so hard to believe about Scientology.
Aliens, 3000 year war, mankind on the brink of...
Oh, wait...That's Battlefield Earth. :-\
Quote from: Guybrush Peepwood on Sun 26/03/2006 16:10:07
Xenu is such an original impressive name that comes from Greek word "xenos" and variations of it are often used in science fiction (and other) fiction stories.
Well, of course Xenu predates the ancient Greeks by a few millennia, so they must have taken the name from him! Maybe Plato was a Scientologist... :)
Quote from: Kinoko on Sun 26/03/2006 15:54:59
I guess I was just hoping there was some normal-ish person who believed in it, so I could ask them why and stuff. No biggie.
In all honesty, I doubt you'd even get a reasonable answer from a scientologist.
Quote from: Kinoko on Sun 26/03/2006 15:54:59
I guess I was just hoping there was some normal-ish person who believed in it, so I could ask them why and stuff.
Why, are you trying to get their members to desert for the Super Adventure Club?
Secret sects don't really need credible or well articulated myths and scriptures, they exist because it's cool to belong to an exclusive sect.
Read Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco to dig deeper into the psychology of sectism.
Or The DaVinci code, if you want to read a mainstream popcorn version of the same concept.
Quote from: Radiant on Sun 26/03/2006 12:36:10Other countries generally consider it (1) a commercial organisation, or (2) a dangerous sect. Indeed it is forbidden in some countries.
The same can be said about Christianity and some countries.
Anyway, asking scientologists questions may not yield any results.Ã, As far as I know, they are bound by secrecy, and so they wouldn't be able to reveal anything.Ã, Methinks that Tom Cruise went too far in regards of secrecy when he revealed scientology's attitude towards psychologists and mental disorders.
In fact, I've got a small story to share about my conflict with scientology.Ã, In my free time I'm working on a project: a photography book that documents all churches in Atlanta.Ã, I simply take their pictures, and hope that soon I have photographed all of them to assemble them in a book.Ã, When I took pictures of the scientology temple I was confronted by one of their employees who demanded me to delete the pictures I've taken (didn't realize I was shooting on film).Ã, When I told him that I was standing on a public sidewalk, and that by law I was allowed to take pictures of anything visible from public property (didn't mention federal law exceptions, such as bridges, power plants and critical infrastructure) he freaked out and started threatening me, claiming that the design of the building was copyrighted (can be, but any permanent fixture visible from public property becomes public domain for photographers and painters), and that if I ever developed and published the pictures they'd go after me.Ã, This is how far their secrecy thing goes.Ã, Strangely enough, the much more secretive sect, the free masons, never had problems with me taking pictures of their temples.
How insane is that. I mean, they go to such lengths to make scientology known and have so many famous people join them, and yet don't want people doing meaningless things like taking photos of their buildings.
Off-topic I guess, but... you're not allowed to take photos of bridges? Certain bridges? I can't off-hand think of anything we're not allowed to take photos of in Australia, besides little children at the beach and women in dressing rooms.
Also OT, but a couple of years ago, I went home to visit my family and the subject of free masons came up, and my dad told me he used to belong to a free mason club. I couldn't believe it, he was the most normal dad in the universe and yet he was apart of some secretive club! I asked him to divulge the secret handshake but he said he couldn't remember and it wasn't ever a big deal, just a bunch of men drinking together and stuff.
Yeah, they got to him good. "Can't remember"... pff.
haha, Freemasonry is just like Rotary, except with handshakes and no median strips that they call parks. My friend's local voting booth is the nearest masonic hall, and most of my male ancestors in the past 3 generations were masons since up to the Wran government in NSW, you more or less had to join the Freemasons or the Catholics to get anywhere in the public service. Nothing sinister or conspiratorial about it, just the fact that patrons always favour those they know, and these two groups happened to be the two social groups. They may as well have been cricket or rugby clubs.
Hell, the nearest lodge advertises in the program of a tiny one screen cinema in the suburbs.
God help us if these people control global finance and the secret of the holy grail!
I wonder what they do all day. Talk about sport and women?
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 28/03/2006 01:05:33Off-topic I guess, but... you're not allowed to take photos of bridges? Certain bridges? I can't off-hand think of anything we're not allowed to take photos of in Australia, besides little children at the beach and women in dressing rooms.
It's part of the post-9/11 provisions (even though not directly part of the Patriot Act). When 9/11 happened, I used to live just across fron New York City, in New Jersey. Soon afterwards it became illegal to take photographs of critical infrastructure, such as bridges and tunnels into the city. And having done much more nature photography then than I do now, I also had to stop taking pictures of water reservoirs I came across on my hikes.
So much for the official laws. Photography in general is a very gray area, though. For example, after I moved to Atlanta the cops have given me hard time whenever I took pictures of buildings, or even simple July 4th fireworks. It's sad how little they know about how much is allowed in regards to photography.
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 28/03/2006 01:35:36
I wonder what they do all day. Talk about sport and women?
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps,
Who keeps the Martians under wraps,
We do, We do!
My grand-uncle was grandmaster of the Freemasons in Assam. He had a ring with some strange shape and some sort of apron. There are still some sort of "Freemason buildings" in Assam, but I don't thik they are used anymore. One or two of his grandsons (my uncles) are still Freemasons, but that's about it. From what I could gather, it seems business oriented.
And here I always thought that they just went around building things and not charging for their services.
Talking of secret societies (http://americangirlscouts.org/agswiki/index.php/Wintermeet)...
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 28/03/2006 01:05:33
Off-topic I guess, but... you're not allowed to take photos of bridges? Certain bridges? I can't off-hand think of anything we're not allowed to take photos of in Australia, besides little children at the beach and women in dressing rooms.
Not just bridges, either...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4842868.stm
Sinister masonic plots
(http://sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/Cimg0417.jpg)
I am a scientist! :D