Seeking approval

[DGMacphee]

I was watching the film Stand By Me today. It's a brilliant film. One of my favs. Seen it many times before.

I also watched the DVD "making of" doco. Rob Reiner talked a lot about the themes of the film. One of the undercurrents of the story was the juxaposition of Gordie's relationship with his father and his relationship with his friends.

Gordie's relationship with his father was buffered by his Brother, Denny. Gordie was able to seek approval of his writing through his brother, as opposed to his father. When Denny died, he lost that.

The film's progression deals with Gordie's seeking such approval from his friends, namely Chris.

I was wondering how people saw "seeking approval" of others.

I'm not talking about conformity or such, but just being told you've "done a good job".

I knew that, as a boy, I'd seek approval from my Dad, but felt knocked back at times. Don't get me wrong, because I love him dearly. But, looking back, I sometimes wished he'd supported me a little more.

Some things he said really hurt. I remember one time, we went through my first high school report card. I'd scored averages on most of my subjects and I failed art. He called me many synonyms for "average" and a few for "below average". I know he was trying to scare me away from being average, but I think it had the opposite effect: it made me feel worse.

And I think I found what I needed through people who laughed at my jokes. Like, I'd fool around in some classes. Other students would laugh. I'd even throw jokes into my science reports and made my science teacher laugh. He gave me higher marks too.

I think making people laugh was what saved me. I found approval from people who did laugh. I don't think my Dad found me all that funny as a child. Mabye he does know. I don't know. We do have a better relationship now and he does support me a lot more.

Maybe I just had to find something I wanted to do, like doing drama classes.

Something I was good at.

How about you?

[Phemar]

Me? I've never been good at anything in my entire life. I've never one a single award, never had anyone say "Hey, well done!". Believe me, it gets me down sometimes.
But then I found AGS, and although I wasn't that good at it, it still gave me pleasure. I found I really enjoyed making adventure games. The only thing is my parents. They hate me on the computer. The say it effects my grades. The don't know that's the only thing that keeps me driven in my life. I wouldn't even have any grades if I wasn't making games. There would be nothing to make me happy. All my friends look down on adventure games, as if they're the scum of the gaming world. If I ever do excel at anything, just win one award, or have someone say well done to me, just so people, my parents, my friends and my teachers will know I am not a failure. I don't want to be a failure, no-one ever asks to be a failure. I'll just have to go back to living my life in  the one direction it flows, just like a river: Take things as they come at you. I will never stop trying to be someone, someone with a claim to fame. Ir will happen one day I tell you, One day I will bw someone great.

[Mr_Frisby]

Ags is super cool and allows me to channel my untapped creativity - I am not good at anything in particular because I can't do one thing for too long - I love drawing cartoons. . almost as much as I like writting . .but I only write in short burst every now and then . . when I'm not learning to play music . .which is in between my complete obsession to create meaning full prose, poems and philosophies, but I only do that when I'm not animating or programming or painting or . . .you see my dilemma. This used to suck - but because now I can do all those thing and put them into one area AGS it's cool, oh and then there is my idea of interactive comic books - oh and comic books in general  . .

Anyway - I only got minimal support as a kid - Drawing pictures doesn't make money and anyway everybody grows up to wear a colloar and work in an office dont they? Well that was my parents Idea when I was finishing High school - I have since broken thier ideal and spirits and re-edumakated them.

nb. DG I also had a similar experience to yours when I was in primary school - I was getting low marks and my parents totally went hard ass on me - half way through the very traumatizing lecture I switched off and started imagining myself turning into the hunchback of notre dame. Since then I thought I was stupid and never again could consentrate for fear of failure - hence I have taken a long time to get anywhere -

[evenwolf]

Shit DG, you had to go and find a really thoughtful topic, didn't you?

With every community that I admire, I crave acceptance.  If I'm not accepted, I feel powerless and often won't even speak.   When I first visited the Austin comedy scene, I believed all the comedians would become angered if you spoke to them.  Or that they knew I was just hoping to make friends, and they'd call my BS.  So I sat quietly.  

Now that I feel 'accepted', I talk to all of the comics and probably annoy the hell out of all of them.  But atleast I'm finally being myself, only after taking the initiative. Part of seeking acceptance is that perhaps I don't trust people in general.  With each new person, I have to renew my faith in human nature again.

[Gravity]

No matter how bad your life is or seems there is always someone who thinks their life is worse. Take me for example. I'm a complete mess up. 21, live at home, no job, no ambition, no dreams, still have not made a ags game , never finished school (because they suck here), and a bunch of other crap. Nobody in my house plays games (there are six of us but 2 are little children), and they all think my playing games is stupid. But you know what? Who cares? I am me, they are they, and I never let anyone get me down over anything. Sure my life sucks, but hey, it is a life. I could be homeless or dead and not have the ability to play games or get online or all that crap. So, cheer up.

[DGMacphee]

The thing is, Grav, we're not really talking about how life sucks.

We're talking more about being appreciated by others.

And by that, I don't mean "expecting to be appreciated by other", but more so where you're able to seek happiness from certain people because they let you know you do a good job.

Some people you can seek approval from, while others just can't give it cause it's not in the nature of their relationship with you.

[Gravity]

I know I was just venting.

[jetxl]

I have never cared much what others personal oppinion is about me, although it has grown in the past few years. Sure, It's nice when people say nice things about you, but when they do it to much I cut them off or ignore it. Same thing with people who scold me though.
My folks know that I have a mind of my own, so they push nor pull.
(I do take other people oppinions in considderations and decide what is best, myself.)

But if you live your life by only making other people happy then your not a man but a slave.

[Rincewind]

Ah - Very nice topic, DG!

Me, I didn't have lots and lots friends in my own age when I was little, since I never went to daycare - My mother stayed at home and took care of me instead, which often forced me to entertain myself, by starting to read, draw, and generally just use my own imagination to create my own worlds inside my head. I kept to myself most of the time, and I suppose it's there my interest in "art"  started in a sense...
I'm not sure now, when looking back at it, if my parents encouraged me in drawing and doing all those things, but I still kept on doing those things.
Maybe not as a way of being accepted, more as a thing I always felt compelled to do, something that made me happy.

I think I have always been generally hungry for getting acclaim and approval, but never getting that response from your parents when you've done something you're really proud of can be really depressive. My mum and dad still frown when I try to tell them that this is something I really enjoy doing, and write it off as "something I'll outgrow"...
So sometimes I can try far too hard to get attention from people, by almost "pushing" my interests onto other people, sadly enough...
I suppose that's my way of getting acceptance, in a way...

[Queen Kara]

Even though I try my best to be polite and be friendly to people ,  I feel like I'm not very good at dealing with people , sometimes I even have this problem online , but I think it's because I mostly keep to myself and due to my past ( alot of times it's been hard to get along with people ....when I was a kid ...since we moved around a lot because my father was in the army...I never felt like I really had any friends so I never really felt accepted and that saying "everyone's a critic" is very true...I rarely get comments on my work and when I do..it's usually to point out what's wrong with it...that along with my own feelings about my art...I consider myself a perfectionist but I also can be very lazy about things...blah blah...anyway all those feelings bunched up together gets me depressed / discouraged about my work so then I start being unmotivated to finish anything. I guess that's a big part of why I have such a hard time finishing things I start.  )
I do have some friends though , the somewhat sad thing is that most of them are online I haven't chatted with them as much as I used to. And it's always scary trying to meet new people.
And like others , it's hard when your parents , the very two people that are supposed to make you feel good about yourself , sometimes say insensitive things and give you a hard time about grades and such.
Hmmm..I used to ( and sometimes still feel this way ) often feel like even my own parents didn't really support me in anything even though they'd say things like "that's a nice drawing" but that'd be it ...sure they would buy me stuff sometimes like art supplies but I don't consider that "true" encouragement. I like being told that I've done a good job but it's not something I remember hearing often.   It's always a pleasant surprise when somebody chooses me , of all people , to help on a project or ask me to do something for them , or tell me that they like my work , ect. I'm so used to hearing that my stuff is crap that I wanna cry tears of joy whenever people say that they actually like my work.  Also , sometimes my dad seems to think that I am not serious about things like taking up sewing so it's kinda like "yeah ok ...if you really are interested I'll buy material for you but I don't believe that you are going to do this so why are you bringing it up?" or something. *shrugs and sighs*
Oh , and because of the fact that I've had alot of problems getting along with people ,  I've grown to hate people so I guess that's a big part of why I have trouble getting along too. *laughs*
When I was growing up I often felt like I was "brother's shadow" and to this day I'm still a bit jealous that he was so popular in school and then after he graduated and stuff , even though he was a pain , I missed him because I had such a hard time in school. So , now you know why I hated school.  I know I haven't really talked about school before but just saying. *laughs again*
Oh , and I've been told before that I care way too much about what people think of me and my work but at the same time I definately let people know that I'm not always a pushover either...and I hate it when people lay guilt trips on others.

[remixor]

Part of seeking acceptance is that perhaps I don't trust people in general. Ã, With each new person, I have to renew my faith in human nature again.

I can relate to this very much.  It's a problem that really impedes my ability to meet people, even people whose approval I really am seeking.

[[Cameron]]

Aproval in the form of awards can suck. Not meaning to boast, but i am a very good student academically. At my school, and most likely other schools, many people are givven awards for academic acheivments. This can make people cast out from the social groups because of their praise. Thankfully this has not happened to me but i have seen it happen. And on a personal note, I get nauseus in front of crowds and i have to receive awards in front of the school doesn't really help.


Eul

[Robert Eric]

I think it's spelled "juxtaposition".

[Nine Toes]

I never really had a dad growing up.  I had an unreasonable facsimile for a stepfather, who would take me fishing or something once in a great blue moon.  But, all he really did the entire time was bitch at me, work, and sleep.  My mom is now married to a nicer guy who would have made a great father figure for me, but now that I'm a grown man... it kinda feels like too little too late.

My mom on the other hand... she was pretty much my mom AND my dad during the entire time I was growing up.  I don't really feel like she accepted me too much.

I was different when I was a child, my mom always used to say, "What happened to you?  You always used to be such a happy little boy..."  That is true.  But the "terrible teens" can really mess with a person.  14 came around and I started cussing, started getting piercings, started listening to what she called "satanic music".  She wasn't happy with any of that.

The one thing that really irks me about all of it, is how nothing I ever did was good enough for her.  I'd get a C in one of my classes; I'd say, "At least I'm passing...", she'd say, "You're smarter than that."  When I was 19, I dated a girl who was a year older than me, and she had 2 kids.  Somehow, that didn't sit too well with my mom, she didn't want me getting involved with something like that... I just had to kind of ask myself, "What about what I want?"

I still don't feel like my mom accepts me, and I don't really feel like she ever will.

It's kind of funny, they say that a young man will date a woman who is most like his mother (or a young woman will date a man who is most like her father).  I just got out of a year and a half long relationship with a girl who never accepted me and loved me just because I was me.  She was always trying to change me and wanted me to do things her way. AND!... (omfg)... the guilt trips she would lay on me... looking back now, I think she has a lot more in common with my mom than I really noticed before.

[LordHart]

Sports... most specifically Rugby League is probably what got me through my early teens. My dad never really had the same interests I had up until the point when I first started playing football for a local team... I had played for my school and I was always a good player, but he could never go see them games because of work.

But when I first started playing, and because of the games being on the weekend, he got to see all of them and he just loved how I played, because I reminded him of himself when he was young playing for Souths Juniors. So, thats probably the reason why I tried to improve at sports, and started failing at things like Math and Science.

Now I'm getting older, he wants to see me play again, as I'm now big compared to when I was young and slim and the last time I played a proper game, I broke my collarbone (first serious injury in the 8 years I'd been playing), but the local team where we live now is run by a bunch of assholes, I'm out of shape, and getting fatter each day, and if I wanted to play for a competent team, I'd have to travel or move to Sydney...

[Rave]

I'm a complete aproval-whore. "Validate me! Grade me!Ã,  APPROVE OF ME!" I'm not really that good in anything in particular. I was never interested in most of my classes in school, nor was I good in any sport....except running. I weighed 140 lbs in highschool, basically a stick. I found that running was somthing I was halfway good at, but I was never good enough to win medals or anything....even though i worked my ass off and almost fainted a few times after a trackmeet.
Ã,  Ã,  But I liked Art, and was always excited every hour of Art class. Drawing, painting, ceramics, I just sort of did it better than all the other kids. Both my parents work as Art teachers and maybe that gave me a head start. However, its a blessing as well as a curse. Sure, regular people might like some of my art, but how do you impress artists who has dedicated their lives it design and form? My mom seems to like most of my stuff alright, but she never made any big deal about it. Mabye, "Oh, yeah. Thats nice dear", about a piece that took me a month to complete and then she goes to cook dinner. But my dad doesn't seem to care much at all about anything I create. A few weeks ago I decided to do a bust of a young woman out of clay, probobly the most difficult project I've ever done. When I finally fished and showed by father, I think he was actually somwhat impressed. He told me that because I've started so many things that I've never completed, he didn't really have much faith I'd follow through on it. And then he goes back to reading his newspaper. I was like, "Gosh.....thanks......I think...."

[Edit]- By the way, it's fired now (and she was a bitch to hollow out. You have to do that or the sculpture will likely explode in the kiln) and I spray-painted it black in the backyard. I need to go out and give it a second coat pretty soon, but I think it turned out nice. Maybe I'll take a picture of it and scan it up on here to see if it meets all of your approval. (Wait, damn. I'm doing it again!!)

[Kinoko]

*sigh* I can never participate in these "damn my childhood" conversations ^^;;; I had a great childhood from a family point of view. My parents were always encouraging, but didn't stick their noses into my business. They never pushed me as such, and never got down on me if I didn't do well. Er, I'm not trying to rub this in anyone's face, btw. I'm just saying... So I can never go on about not getting approval. I got all the approval I needed, and to be honest, it didn't really affect me -that- much.

I know it can be said the other way around, but coming from someone who had no problems in this area, I'd just like to say (from MY point of view) that if you didn't get the greatest sense of approval from your parents... although it's sad and I'm sure it hurt, don't feel like you missed out on some incredibly vital part of being a person or anything. I mean, I'm REALLY not trying to say, "Pff, get over it" or "It doesn't matter at all!", don't think that. It's hard to explain... I guess I'm just trying to say that it doesn't need to affect your confidence as a person now.

I think I seek approval from people more these days now that I've grown up, and even then it's more in my artistic ventures than anything. I like to be appreciated, and have people tell me that they like the things I create. Maybe so I don't think that I'm wasting my time.

As a person though, I've probably got 100x the self confidence I had when I was a little girl, and most of that came from moving out and living away from my parents (nothing against them, my point is just that I felt like an adult not living at home) and getting out of a high school environment. I very rarely feel the need to be validated as a human being, because I know that most of what I do is what I believe is right. Obviously, I hate being disliked but in a world with so many people, I know that can't be avoided so it doesn't bother me more than it should, really.

I don't know, I could be wrong or not have thought about it enough, but I think that the only validation I'm after is in my comics and artistic persuits ^_^ At least the way I am now. Maybe it'd be different if I got dumped and my friends started ignoring me. In my art though, I definitely need validation. As much as I can enjoy what I do myself, and think it's great... I'm -always- after comments on my work.

[DGMacphee]

I guess I'm just trying to say that it doesn't need to affect your confidence as a person now.

It shouldn't... But it does.

I gained a lot of confidence and approval from two things in my life.

One was here: AGS. As trite as that sounds, I thought I was really a part of something special. We were bringing something nostolgiac back to life. And we did it well. And we had fun. I felt I was a part of that had meaning in my life. And we all liked each other's games. Loved playing them. I think we all took pride in that. I think that as a community, like we were in the olden days, we created something strong, like a family. Sometimes we disagreed on some things (leading to arguments), but in the end we were all together. And I liked that.

It doesn't feel the same anymore, partially cause the community has grown a bit distant, like the disappearence of Phil Reed. I always thought highly of his sense of humour and ability to bring joy to places. And when I co-won his essay competition with Scid, I felt like I gained something.

I guess it was approval.

The other thing in my life that was happening the same time was working as a children's entertainer. I loved the job, but I loved the people even more. We'd have training sessions where we'd have fun painting each others faces and making animals out of balloons. And I was known as the best balloon sculptor ever (my best was making a Fonzie Doll out of balloons, with his thumb up going AYYYYY!). We were all good at our jobs and would help each other as much as we could. It was like returning to something innocent and child-like. It was grand and free-spirited.

We even had great parties. We'd get drunk, try on all the costumes, listen to great music, and celebrate being kids again. I even met my girlfriend there. And the great thing was we all could praise and support each other. Like AGS, we were a big family. I even saw my boss as a mother-figure, even though she was only a few years older than me. But she was a big influence on my life now.

However, people left. Some just disappeared and were never seen again. I eventually left when my car broke down. Ever since then, I've felt lifeless. Six months later, I went to a party at the place. I ended up doing shots with one of the other longtime staff members. In fact, other than the boss, she'd been there the longest. I had been there the second longest. After the shots, we both ended up puking all over the place. Rene was really pissed at me, and rightfully so. Looking back on it, it was a sign of the times. After she graduated, The other staff member finished-up at the job and took a rural job. I think then it was time for us all to become adults again. And since then, life hasn't been as fun.

I think that's why I love Stand By Me. When you're with friends, and I'm talking about being with them to the point that you create an age of enlightenment and everyone develops into better people, you feel like you've gained something special and that you've left something important behind. I guess I'm nostolgiac for the past, but I'm always looking to the future for when I create the next era of my life. Where I'm doing something important, fun, and free-spirited, and am enjoying life with people I love and care deeply about.

I hope I find the next era of my life and I hope I find people to share it -- I just want to make something special with a big group of people.

What that is, I don't know. I'll just have to wait and seize the opportunity by the balls when it comes.

[Rave]

As trite as that sounds, I thought I was really a part of something special. We were bringing something nostolgiac back to life. And we did it well. And we had fun. I felt I was a part of that had meaning in my life. And we all liked each other's games. Loved playing them. I think we all took pride in that. I think that as a community, like we were in the olden days, we created something strong, like a family. Sometimes we disagreed on some things (leading to arguments), but in the end we were all together. And I liked that. It doesn't feel the same anymore, partially cause the community has grown a bit distant, like the disappearence of Phil Reed.

YOU BASTARDS. You mean its all ended just when I get here? What the hell. Thats seriously not fun. Where is my nostolgia? *grumble* *grumble*

Sorry you feel that way, DGMac. I guess I don't really have anything comforting to say, positive inspiration doesn't come easily to me. I find myself looking for a community to "make somthing special" with as well, usually online because I'm not really that much of a social guy offline. Sort of a pathedic social life, huh?

About a year ago I found a group shared online drawing community where you could create art with people in real-time. I still go there alot, but recently there have been some problems with me and the admins/hosts there and it feels like things are falling apart as well. It used to feel like a secret well of inspiration and creativity, and I still have a lot of friends there, but all of a sudden this admin as it out to bann me, just waiting for me to "slip up". To think that we were friends once...but anyway. I'm boggled by why I am writing this, but more so by why the heck your reading it so I guess I'll just stop while I'm ahead. But I'll leave you with one last thought to consider.

AGS has always held an "Underground" persona (weither true or not in reality) but is it starting to feel like we are digging up too close to the surface? Is this really going to be the end of an era?

[DGMacphee]

AGS has always held an "Underground" persona (weither true or not in reality) but is it starting to feel like we are digging up too close to the surface? Is this really going to be the end of an era?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising the current state of the community. It's just different, not better or worse. The old era has ended a little, especially with the departure of a lot of good gamemakers. They've moved on. It's sad. But I also think there's a new era happening right now -- a new generation of gamemakers. But I think only a handful of "oldies" will be actively involved in this.

Like I say, it's not a bad thing that the old era is over. It just means the times are a-changing.