Sierra Fan Game Copyright?

[HyperAnimated]

Hi all!  Apologies, I imagine this topic has been asked more than once, but I can't tell if maybe I'm just not searching correctly to find it.

My main question, please - will Sierra sue you for using their work in a non-profit fan game?

Basically, I had a cool idea for a game that's a nostalgic love letter to Sierra, mixing a lot of their work into a multiverse plot.  I'd like to adapt art and sprites ripped from their games, edited for new animation styles similar to Dorkly.

I've seen bits and pieces online suggesting Sierra sued this kind of stuff pretty hard.  But I also know Space Quest fan games exist.  Any idea if they take legal action even if you're not making any money from it?

(And follow up question, please - I've already collected thousands of sprites and backgrounds from Sierra games.  I literally scraped Mystery House this morning for every possible screenshot of different screen conditions.  Is it bad form or illegal or anything to offer to share them here once I'm done collecting?)

[LimpingFish]

Sierra won't be doing squat, because Sierra doesn't exist anymore. The company that initially bought them doesn't exist anymore, having been eaten by Activision. The Quest games probably still belong to Activision. Leisure Suit Larry was sold to Codemasters, and then to someone else.

But the rights to lesser known series or one-off games like Codename: Iceman, or Freddy Pharkas: Frontier Pharmacist? I'd hazard a guess that they're buried somewhere in the bowels of Activision Blizzard, probably right next to the No One Lives For Ever license.

Regardless, nobody really gets sued over fan games. At worse, you might get a cease-and-desist letter from some lawyer, which is usually what does happen, if anything happens at all.

EDIT:  The Gabriel Knight IP also still resides with Activision Blizzard, it seems. I think we can take it as likely that most of the rest still do as well.

[HyperAnimated]

Thanks, I appreciate the info!  I Googled and tried to follow the confusing buyouts and mergers with Vivendi, Activision, etc, and it seems like they were gutted.  But I can also see Freddy Pharkas, KQ1-3, Heart of China and other games are still being sold on Gog, so I wasn't sure.

So probably no issue with sharing the backgrounds/sprites/etc. on here once I'm done collecting, then?

[FortressCaulfield]

This makes me quite nervous as well. I don't use any of their graphical assets, and have no plans to try to monetize, but I do want the name Space Quest on there, and I don't want to have to cease and/or desist.

[Danvzare]

This makes me quite nervous as well. I don't use any of their graphical assets, and have no plans to try to monetize, but I do want the name Space Quest on there, and I don't want to have to cease and/or desist.

They could send a C&D your way. But you've got to keep in mind whether or not they will.
To my knowledge, there hasn't been a single Space Quest fangame that's ever received a cease and desist (please correct me if I'm wrong). There hasn't even been a King's Quest fangame that's received C&D either (as far as I'm aware), and that franchise received it's last entry in (check's Wikipedia) 2016. which honestly isn't that long ago. Space Quest on the other hand has been dead since (check's Wikipedia) 1995.

So not only has the right's holders shown a lot of leeway with Sierra Quest fangames already, but they also have little to no reason to even be on the hunt to protect their IP in the first place, since they clearly have no intention of leveraging said IP.

So with that in mind, as long as your Space Quest game is free, and doesn't get ridiculously super popular (we're talking the levels of Palworld), then chances are you won't get a cease and desist. You've probably got a better chance at winning the lottery than getting a C&D. So don't worry about it. 

(Now if it was Nintendo we were talking about, I'd tell you to give up now. Those guys love sending C&Ds.)

[FortressCaulfield]

Didn't the Silver Lining get C&Ded? And at least one quest for glory?

I'm in a weird position because, without giving too much away, I don't have an existing space quest character as the protagonist. To a copyright lawyer just glancing at it, it might not look like a space quest at all. But then I lose potential space quest players.

[Snarky]

Basically, I had a cool idea for a game that's a nostalgic love letter to Sierra, mixing a lot of their work into a multiverse plot.  I'd like to adapt art and sprites ripped from their games, edited for new animation styles similar to Dorkly.

The concept reminds me a bit of the Adventure series by @Akril15.

There hasn't even been a King's Quest fangame that's received C&D either (as far as I'm aware), and that franchise received it's last entry in (check's Wikipedia) 2016.

But has there been a KQ fan game (not just an unofficial remake, but an original game) since 2016?

Didn't the Silver Lining get C&Ded? And at least one quest for glory?

Yeah, TSL did at one point, but they were then able to strike some kind of deal with Activision. The developers released 4 episodes in 2010–11 before the project apparently ground to a halt (the last development update is from 2019).

And the Quest for Orgy parody games were shut down by Vivendi.

But these are the exceptions. There have been a lot of Sierra fan games that never faced a reaction of any kind.

[TheFrighter]

On this french website Gabriel Knight : Sins of the Father is free to download, perhaps at least the french edition is "abandonware"...

https://www.abandonware-france.org/ltf_abandon/ltf_jeu.php?id=686
_

[cat]

I'm in a weird position because, without giving too much away, I don't have an existing space quest character as the protagonist. To a copyright lawyer just glancing at it, it might not look like a space quest at all. But then I lose potential space quest players.

If does not include anything from Space Quest, I would avoid using it in the title for two reasons:
1) to avoid any C&D
2) Fans of Space Quest will be disappointed if it doesn't feature anything from Space Quest although the name suggests it.

I would rather give it another title and just use marketing speech like "inspired by Space Quest" or similar. This will make it much clearer for players what to expect.

[FortressCaulfield]

Oh it definitely "includes things from space quest" it's just not going to have roger wilco mopfighting sludge vohaul in front of a phleebutt sunrise on the box.

Not that there'll ever be a box of course.

[LimpingFish]

On this french website Gabriel Knight : Sins of the Father is free to download, perhaps at least the french edition is "abandonware"...

No, the entire Gabriel Knight series is still available on Steam, so the copyright on the IP is still very much in effect, regardless of region. Jane Jensen herself has commented on the difficulties of trying to obtain permission to continue the series from Activision as recently as 2022.

So we can definitely mark that one as still in effect.

In fact, looking at Steam:

Space Quest
Police Quest
King's Quest
Quest for Glory
Leisure Suit Larry

It's fairly safe to say that the IP for those titles is ongoing.

Oh it definitely "includes things from space quest" it's just not going to have roger wilco mopfighting sludge vohaul in front of a phleebutt sunrise on the box.

If you're using actual assets from the games in question, you'd probably be looking at copyright infringement, rather than trademark infringement. Using trademarked terms, names or logos could, in theory, be avoided though clever writing and design, or perhaps even fall under parody. But the use of copyrighted assets would negate that possibility.

Look, I'm going to jump in my time machine and zip forward to the end of this conversation.

...

Alright, I'm here.

*cough*

Make your game, but be aware that it could be shutdown at any moment. If you broadcast the fact that you're making it, you increase the risk that it may be C+D'ed. If you manage to release it, you may be told to remove it at any point. In both situations, you will have NO recourse but to obey. If you connect it in any way to requests for money ("Hey, I'm making this free game, but you can join my Patreon, etc, etc") it's HIGHLY LIKELY you WILL BE shutdown.

Having said that, if you just make the game and put it out there, there's a good chance absolutely nothing will happen. The worst legal outcome is that a representative of the copyright holder will send you a boilerplate C+D letter asking you to stop distributing the game. You'll have lost the time and energy you put into making the game, but it'll likely go no further, providing you do indeed remove the game from distribution.

There really isn't anything else to say.

[mkennedy]

Didn't the Silver Lining get C&Ded? And at least one quest for glory?

Wasn't Quest for Glory 4.5 hit with a cease and desist order as well? From what I remember the game may have ripped off assets from the original Quest for Glory and featured very adult humor that would not be suitable for children so it would certainly be understandable.

[FortressCaulfield]

Well damned if that doesn't take the wind out of my sails. I appreciate your frankness though.

I do not use any copywritten material except a screengrab of cedric the owl for a comedy background postcard that turned out so tiny even *I* have to squint at it to realize that's him.

Trademarked... well, I've got a lot of playful reference, the equivalent of finding "King Graham was here" carved into a dungeon wall. I don't think I'd get in trouble for those. I'm not really expecting a reply just sort of thinking out loud. I know you've already heard this due to the time traveling, but if I don't say it anyway we'll cause a paradox. I guess the bottom line is I'm way better off scrubbing space quest out of the title.

I decided to pop over to the trademark search site and see what was live and what was dead and the results are REALLY weird.

According to the trademark office, "Roger Wilco" is a liquor store in new jersey, a chain of apparel stores and a voice communication program, but the sierra trademark on the name is dead since 2006 and vivendi or whoever has not filed a new one. "King Graham" and "Daventry" have apparently never been trademarked. "Space Quest" has been a board game, a series of casino games, a series of books about Jesus... "Leisure Suit Larry" has an active trademark under EA, but "Guybrush Threepwood" does not. Confusing

[Snarky]

No, the entire Gabriel Knight series is still available on Steam, so the copyright on the IP is still very much in effect, regardless of region. Jane Jensen herself has commented on the difficulties of trying to obtain permission to continue the series from Activision as recently as 2022.

Well, abandonware is not a legal concept in the first place. (I seem to recall a few years back there was a push to try to create some system by which permission could be secured to publish books where the copyright owners could not be found, but I don't think it went anywhere.) From a quick look around it doesn't seem like the French version of the game is available for sale anywhere, so in that sense it is "abandonware," but no, of course that doesn't mean that the owners have relinquished, abandoned or forgotten their claim to the copyright.

Wasn't Quest for Glory 4.5 hit with a cease and desist order as well?

I don't think so.

Well damned if that doesn't take the wind out of my sails.

Look, fan games are always (unless they actively secure permission/license) copyright infringements and liable to be hit with a C&D notice.

Whether or not that will actually happen depends on the company that owns the copyright, and to some extent on what the fan game looks like and how you promote it. In practice, it almost never happens with point-and-click Sierra fan games, at least not recently (we're going back two decades to find examples), and the exceptions tend to have very obvious reasons. There have been probably half a dozen Space Quest fan games in the last few years, and as far as I know none of them have been met with any reaction whatsoever from Activision.

Just don't try to make money off it or make it seem like it's an official game, and don't include anything that could inflict reputational harm on the property (porn, hate speech, that kind of thing), and you'll almost certainly be fine.

[HyperAnimated]

The concept reminds me a bit of the Adventure series by @Akril15.

I thought I remembered games like that...I'd never played the Adventure series, but I just now read the walkthroughs.  Similar concept in that different game characters interact between game universes, but set strictly in the overall Sierraverse, no LucasArts/other peeps, and completely different plot idea. So phew for not accidentally plagiarizing!

I appreciate all the input from everyone.  I'm starting to think I'll just go for sheer parody to avoid C&D's.  Hell, it worked for Watchmen.

I saw Ken Williams encouraging people on SierraGamers to make fan games, while explicitly spelling out they had signed away all rights to Sierra and he didn't even know who owned the rights anymore.  So instead I asked permission to use his and Roberta's likenesses as pixelated in-game characters, we'll see what they say. If it goes full parody then I'll call them William and Wilhelmina Robertken.

[Danvzare]

On this french website Gabriel Knight : Sins of the Father is free to download, perhaps at least the french edition is "abandonware"...

https://www.abandonware-france.org/ltf_abandon/ltf_jeu.php?id=686
_

On this french website Gabriel Knight : Sins of the Father is free to download, perhaps at least the french edition is "abandonware"...

No, the entire Gabriel Knight series is still available on Steam, so the copyright on the IP is still very much in effect, regardless of region. Jane Jensen herself has commented on the difficulties of trying to obtain permission to continue the series from Activision as recently as 2022.

So we can definitely mark that one as still in effect.

No, the entire Gabriel Knight series is still available on Steam, so the copyright on the IP is still very much in effect, regardless of region. Jane Jensen herself has commented on the difficulties of trying to obtain permission to continue the series from Activision as recently as 2022.

Well, abandonware is not a legal concept in the first place.

Here's a little clarity as to what "Abandonware" means for those unaware.

When you provide copies of a game without permission, the rights owners can take you to court for the damages incurred by your illegal activity.
The thing is though, if the game isn't available through any legal means, then theoretically the total amount of damages would be equal to zero. Therefore if you were taken to court, you would have to pay a grand total of nothing, and if you continued to provide copies of the game, you would no doubt be taken to court again and be forced to pay nothing again.
This is where the term "Abandonware" comes from. It's a logical conclusion people have drawn from their understanding of the current state of copyright law.

The problem is that as far as I'm aware, it has never actually been tested in a court of law. There is no case law or prior rulings for which to draw a definitive answer on whether or not that would indeed be the case.
This is because if someone actually does get told to stop distributing copies, they usually will (for fear of having to pay a court fee), or the copyright holder will find some other method to get it taken down (with the person who was distributing the "abandonware" just giving up).

So yeah, Snarky is completely right.